21 minutes ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

again, what tests show you have excess copper?!

accutane is a copper chelator. it upregulates a copper based enzyme 3.21x. upregulated=gets used up faster

If youre going off a hair analysis... the foremost expert in this area says a high hair result means you have a deficiency......

Dietrich K.Klinghardt, MD, PhD :

Oxidized used-up iron and copper get displaced into the extracellular compartment and body fluids, and appears in your hair and skin as thats your bodys most efficient way of excreting toxins without damaging your kidneys.This has led to the dangerous, and in its consequence, catastrophic assumption that these metals are the enemy and need to be restricted. It is true that oxidized metals pose a danger and have to be reduced (=substitution of electrons) or eliminated. However, when copper and iron are needed and substituted appropriately, major improvements have been observed. Appropriate antioxidant treatment can reduce these metals. Homeopathic copper and iron leads to beneficial redistribution of these metals and makes them bio-available again.

Im not sure the name of test. My Kinesiologist cut some of my hair, bagged it and sent off to USA for analysing - this was 5 years or so ago so perhaps we didn't have the correct facilities here in Australia at the time, I really don't know, I just ran with what he wanted to do.

Anyway everything came back fine except copper which was really high. He put me on zinc, manganese and Moly Zinc to bring it back down. MZ is known to reduce copper- I haven't been retested so don't know if my levels are back to normal for copper or not.

All I know is I still feel bad, I'm fatigued as Buggery, I sleep badly, I sweat like crazy and my body aches, especially first thing in morning - stiff back etc.

I'm also severely dry in general - God knows what shape my kidneys are in, possibly damaged from the reports on last page.

I don't even know how I maintain a job, I do it somehow!?

35 minutes ago, koikoi123 said:

Taking a copper only supplement seems to be to harrowing for the body when it is depleted or obviously in excess. Other minerals need to be balanced at the same time, primarily zinc. This is the general idea of nutritional balancing anyway.

I haven't taken ALA yet however I know its beneficial for anyone wanting to reduce the consequences of any toxic burden, I discovered it through a post on reddit about MDMA supplementation.

A short term solution for fatigue/brain fog is to take l-tyrosine and dl-phenylalanine to increase serotonin / dopamine as copper or lack thereof prevents normal neurotransmitter levels.

The induction (responsive production) of the protein metallothionein is a protective mechanism that attenuates absorption of zinc or copper at high concentrations, reducing the risk of harm from mineral overdoses. High concentrations of either mineral can induce this protein, raising the potential for one mineral to cause deficiencies of the other by preventing absorption. On a practical level, copper-induced zinc deficiencies have not been reported due to the low amount of copper present in the diet relative to zinc. Excessive zinc intake is a well-known cause of copper deficiency, however.

you are not copper toxic.  get a RBC copper blood test.  

10 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Im not sure the name of test. My Kinesiologist cut some of my hair, bagged it and sent off to USA for analysing - this was 5 years or so ago so perhaps we didn't have the correct facilities here in Australia at the time, I really don't know, I just ran with what he wanted to do.

Anyway everything came back fine except copper which was really high. He put me on zinc, manganese and Moly Zinc to bring it back down. MZ is known to reduce copper- I haven't been retested so don't know if my levels are back to normal for copper or not.

All I know is I still feel bad, I'm fatigued as Buggery, I sleep badly, I sweat like crazy and my body aches, especially first thing in morning - stiff back etc.

I'm also severely dry in general - God knows what shape my kidneys are in, possibly damaged from the reports on last page.

I don't even know how I maintain a job, I do it somehow!?

 

you probably made a bad situation worse.  please go get a RBC blood copper test (i guarantee youre not high).  or just take 2mg a day of copper for a few days and see if you feel anything.  Or just eat a handful of cashews everyday

After i got my test back showing a deficiency, ive taken 2mg for the past 3 days.... 

1. im breathing much easier?!  it feels like im taking in more oxygen with every breath.  
2. more energy for sure
3.  lucid dreams for the first time in years?!
4. decrease in joint pain
 

38 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

Conversely, in some patients with a clear clinical picture of histamine intolerance, normal DAO activities have been observed, so that an additional determination of histamine concentrations and interpretation of laboratory data in view of the clinic seem advisable. Histamine can be measured in plasma or in urine, as can its degradation product N-methylhistamine (53, 132). Deficiency of the DAO cofactors vitamin B-6, copper, and vitamin C, which are thought to supplement histamine degradation (133), has been discussed as being controversial (14). Elevated histamine concentrations, reduced DAO activities, or both are classically found in histamine intolerance. 

2 minutes ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

 

The induction (responsive production) of the protein metallothionein is a protective mechanism that attenuates absorption of zinc or copper at high concentrations, reducing the risk of harm from mineral overdoses. High concentrations of either mineral can induce this protein, raising the potential for one mineral to cause deficiencies of the other by preventing absorption. On a practical level, copper-induced zinc deficiencies have not been reported due to the low amount of copper present in the diet relative to zinc. Excessive zinc intake is a well-known cause of copper deficiency, however.

you are not copper toxic.  get a RBC copper blood test.   you probably made a bad situation worse.  please go get a RBC blood copper test (i guarantee youre not high).  or just take 2mg a day of copper for a few days and see if you feel anything.  Or just eat a handful of cashews everyday

After i got my test back showing a deficiency, ive taken 2mg for the past 3 days.... 

1. im breathing much easier?!  it feels like im taking in more oxygen with every breath.  
2. more energy for sure
3.  lucid dreams for the first time in years?!
4. decrease in joint pain
 

You're probably right. I think I'm just a walking breathing half lucid supplement experiment most of the time, trying all these different things week after week to make myself feel better but to no avail.

I'll try some copper and see what happens - got nothing to lose at this stage, 19 years after making that dreadful mistake for nothing more than backne

7 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

You're probably right. I think I'm just a walking breathing half lucid supplement experiment most of the time, trying all these different things week after week to make myself feel better but to no avail.

I'll try some copper and see what happens - got nothing to lose at this stage, 19 years after making that dreadful mistake for nothing more than backne

 

Ive got one more year on you for nothing more than a mild case.  crazy what we did right?

A paper just came out yesterday feb 6th....   accutane=ATP7 inducer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26851457?dopt=Abstract&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

overexpression of the copper efflux transporter ATP7. Furthermore, when Gclc was knocked down in a subset of neuropeptide-producing cells, this resulted in adult progeny with unexpanded wings, a phenotype previously associated with copper dyshomeostasis. In these cells, Gclc suppression caused a decrease in axon branching, a phenotype further enhanced by ATP7 overexpression. Therefore we conclude that GSH may play an important role in regulating neuronal copper levels and that reduction in GSH may lead to functional copper deficiency in neurons in vivo. 

33 minutes ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

Ive got one more year on you for nothing more than a mild case. crazy what we did right?

A paper just came out yesterday feb 6th.... accutane=ATP7 inducer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26851457?dopt=Abstract&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

overexpression of thecopperefflux transporter ATP7. Furthermore, when Gclc was knocked down in a subset of neuropeptide-producing cells, this resulted in adult progeny with unexpanded wings, a phenotype previously associated withcopperdyshomeostasis. In these cells, Gclc suppression caused a decrease in axon branching, a phenotype further enhanced by ATP7 overexpression. Therefore we conclude that GSH may play an important role in regulating neuronalcopperlevels and that reduction in GSH may lead to functionalcopperdeficiency in neurons in vivo.

Yep - young, dumb and.......

In all honesty how were we to know.1997/98 didn't even have a computer let alone the Internet, not to mention you grow up listen to your doctors advice and why shouldn't we, they are supposed to have a duty of care. They just don't know the dangers of this drug or at least they didn't back then. Maybe this generations doctors are a little wiser - one can only hope.

What we've been through is nothing short of criminal yet there are no repurcusions for the medical industry - total insanity!

1 hour ago, Modeaa said:

this anacdote
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/07/how-to-recognize-and-fix-a-brain-infection/

You guys are all wrong. Your problems are caused by excess histamine in the blood. You would need to get a whole blood histamine test through Labcorp. If your score is over 70 you have histadelia. Your body is deficient in copper. Your body needs copper to lower the histamine. Take 2 mg of copper. It kills all bacterial infections in your body. It kills fungal/candida in your body. You will see skin eruptions that look like bug bites. Inside is massive amounts of bacteria that will come out of your body. Its disgusting and painful but it must come out. Take VSL 3 to replace the destroyed flora in your intestines. You will feel like a million bucks after the detox. Email me if you have any questions. Im an expert. [emailprotected]

.

could this be the link to the 2 finasteride cases that said they were cured by taking 2 different types of antibiotics and VSL #3 ??!!!!

So do you still take zinc to balance out the copper?

1 hour ago, Mike San said:

So do you still take zinc to balance out the copper?

This is what they say to do with a confirmed deficiency.

http://neuromuscular.wustl.edu/nother/vitamin.htm#copper

Treatment

• Copper supplementation: Cupric sulfate
  • IV: 2 mg IV for 5 days
  • Oral: 8 mg daily Cu x 1 week, 6 mg for 2nd week, 4 mg 3rd week, 2 mg thereafter
• Stop zinc intake

so the word of the day is copper, well the mail cant get here fast enough tomorrow then. I know, know,know ive had too much mucus production going on for a long time I can think back years. I have allergies, but symptoms were never like this when I was a kid before accutane. and my hair has lost its blonde color. there was always something in a multi vitamin that made my hair blonde again(but couldnt continue to take it because also felt bad effects). never knew what it was maybe it was copper.

27 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

so the word of the day is copper, well the mail cant get here fast enough tomorrow then. I know, know,know ive had too much mucus production going on for a long time I can think back years. I have allergies, but symptoms were never like this when I was a kid before accutane. and my hair has lost its blonde color. there was always something in a multi vitamin that made my hair blonde again(but couldnt continue to take it because also felt bad effects). never knew what it was maybe it was copper.

4 minutes ago, Modeaa said:

in case you refered this to me. i take neither. i have some last pills from each. overall i took it in a balnced way, it might sustained a wrong balance if copper indeed is a problem for me.

get tested

Im going to get tested again for sure...that regiment is not something you want to do without confirmed deficiency.

On 2/6/2016 at 6:41 AM, Scooterman said:

It switches on a pathway that the drug altered. The drug itself leaves the body after ingestion relatively quickly. Interesting articles though  

Don't say such things. It may be considered heresy to point to the fact that Accutane has a relatively short half-life and that even metabolites such as 4-oxo-isotretinoin and excess ATRA have long since been eliminated in those of us who have had side effects for years. Some people can't grasp that the house being burnt to a husk doesn't mean there is still fire.

Please feel free to PM me if you really do have a background in genetics or a related field. I also strongly believe the drug induces long-term changes in the mechanisms underlying cellular differentiation. Maybe we can start mainlining 5-azacytidine as a last resort. lol

instead of talking down to people that are looking at all possibilities... post your "mechanisms underlying cellular differentation" or simply give one example of a gene being switched off by something no longer in the body that didnt cause an ongoing deficiency? for the 100th time , you cannot change your genetic code. what is so hard to grasp about this? we didnt grow a third leg, our liver is still there. your eyes didnt turn a different color. gene expression can only be altered by a toxin or a deficiency. thats all. these CAN BE FIXED. theres no "burnt field." a burnt field is when you have a leg or arm amputated, or need an immediate liver transplant.. that you cant fix. thats why the whole entire field of epigenetics and methylation protocols have taken off.
we are not passing these accutane side effects down to our children. our kids skin wont be dry from us taking accutane. they wont have one of our side effects. you are talking about a deficiency from say.... years of smoking or drinking, becoming deficient in something, causing an altered gene expression to be passed down. Thats where the whole "sins of the father" comes about.

i can give you 200 examples of them being altered by something inside the body. give me one, just one example of a gene being switched off from something not there.

stop being a hardo but feel free to PM scooterman and keep your theories to yourselves. honestly, did you have any idea retinoids had an effect on intracellular copper levels or the ATP7A protein before this week? or let me guess.. you dont read this thread either.

the f#$@% guy who started this thread was/is convinced hes copper toxic for Christ sakes. and not one person on this thread saying "copper toxicity" has posted any relevant RBC test.. except for me. showing a deficiency. and i eat a ton of copper rich foods!

Completely agree Tryingtohelp2014 that we are DEFICIENT in copper. According to hair tests and improper analyses, EVERYONE is copper toxic. That's wrong. If it's elevated, we are copper deficient.

Copper is VERY important.

Anyone here ever heard of a little known enzyme known as superoxide dismutase (SOD)? It's complexed with zinc and copper. Incredibly important for the immune system.

I haven't watched the video below but I know that guy knows a lot about copper and is a huge proponent of taking it daily in high amounts.

A new thought I've been having lately is that perhaps our symptoms are all mainly due to chronic infection due to weakened immunity due from the accutane . I suggest everyone here watch the quantum leap documentary and research all you can about MMS (sodium chlorite + an acid).

Here's an excellent youtube channel detailing many things that helped him recover his health:

[Edited video out]

Sorry the videos appear so large. Not sure how to link them without it doing that.

Everyone here needs to send me your 23andme results so I can compare them to mine. I want to find commonalities. Run it through Sterling's app and download the PDF to be sent to me via PM.

Sidenote: For those mentioning histamine. I have SNPs in the majority of my histamine breakdown genes (both intracellular and extracellular). I never have itchy reactions but I do consume a lot of histamine via diet (bone broth and sauerkraut in my case).

@yetanotheraccutanevictimShould have my 23andme results back in 5-6 weeks, so will get the same analysis done on my data and share the results!

This is quite an interesting read on the current focus of copper toxicity/deficiency;

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

• It is possible for a person to become copper-toxic, copper-deficient or to have a condition called biounavailable copper.

Sounds like were potentially the latter..

• Slow oxidizers often have excessive copper in their bodies. Thus they are far more prone to copper imbalance of this nature.

Based on tests people have had done, were slow oxidisers..

• What is biounavailable copper? In this very common situation, copper is present in excess in the body, but it cannot be utilized well. The reason it occurs is that minerals such as copper must be bound and transported within the body.
• Biounavailability often occurs due to a deficiency of the copper-binding proteins, ceruloplasmin or metallothionein. Without sufficient binding proteins, unbound copper may circulate freely in the body, where it may accumulate primarily in the liver, brain and female organs.
• When copper is biounavailable, one may have symptoms of both copper toxicity and copper deficiency. Copper toxicity and biounavailability are seen most often. These occur almost always in people who are in the state called slow oxidation.

Obviously copper levels can be tested with a hair analysis, but Im not sure how bioavailable copper levels can be tested, or if this is even possible to be done accurately?

38 minutes ago, tanedout said:

@yetanotheraccutanevictimShould have my 23andme results back in 5-6 weeks, so will get the same analysis done on my data and share the results!

This is quite an interesting read on the current focus of copper toxicity/deficiency;

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

• It is possible for a person to become copper-toxic, copper-deficient or to have a condition called biounavailable copper.

Sounds like were potentially the latter..

• Slow oxidizers often have excessive copper in their bodies. Thus they are far more prone to copper imbalance of this nature.

Based on tests people have had done, were slow oxidisers..

• What is biounavailable copper? In this very common situation, copper is present in excess in the body, but it cannot be utilized well. The reason it occurs is that minerals such as copper must be bound and transported within the body.
• Biounavailability often occurs due to a deficiency of the copper-binding proteins, ceruloplasmin or metallothionein. Without sufficient binding proteins, unbound copper may circulate freely in the body, where it may accumulate primarily in the liver, brain and female organs.
• When copper is biounavailable, one may have symptoms of both copper toxicity and copper deficiency. Copper toxicity and biounavailability are seen most often. These occur almost always in people who are in the state called slow oxidation.

Obviously copper levels can be tested with a hair analysis, but Im not sure how bioavailable copper levels can be tested, or if this is even possible to be done accurately?

there is NO test for biounavailable copper.only supposed symptoms... and most of these symptoms are the same as a deficiency. i wouldnt read anything into bio-unavailable until you first rule out the normal tests. excess copper is eliminated thru the bile. the only good tests for copper are a RBC blood and cerloplasmin test . this shows whats actually in your cells being used for the enzymes, and that you have enough of the copper binding protein to transport it around. potentially a whole body histamine test. if your white blood counts are low.. thats another indication of low copper. and obviously any anemia needs to be checked. copper is needed to remove histamines. the more copper you take, the more ceruloplasmin is made.

metallothionein has a very high affinity for copper. If you take zinc, or anything that induces metallothionein, copper is the first thing that gets attached to be excreted. i read a study , im trying to find it .. but it basically said, its next to impossible by taking copper, to cause a zinc deficiency... dont listen to anything you hear from another website. youre very likely to cause a copper deficiency though from taking zinc.


@yetanother heh, if youre posting way out there guys... here a site

http://www.unveilingthem.com/PoisoningOfMankindCopperDeficiency.htm
http://www.unveilingthem.com/CopperTheMalignedMineral.htm

hows that guy doing that was taking thehydroxypropyl beta cyclodextrin? havent heard from him in awhile.

the guy you posted to be a "copper guru" also believes in morgellons disease...
Very Credible info man. We're really headed straight for a solution!

5 hours ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

instead of talking down to people that are looking at all possibilities... post your "mechanisms underlying cellular differentation" or simply give one example of a gene being switched off by something no longer in the body that didnt cause an ongoing deficiency? for the 100th time , you cannot change your genetic code. what is so hard to grasp about this? we didnt grow a third leg, our liver is still there. your eyes didnt turn a different color. gene expression can only be altered by a toxin or a deficiency. thats all. these CAN BE FIXED. theres no "burnt field." a burnt field is when you have a leg or arm amputated, or need an immediate liver transplant.. that you cant fix. thats why the whole entire field of epigenetics and methylation protocols have taken off.
we are not passing these accutane side effects down to our children. our kids skin wont be dry from us taking accutane. they wont have one of our side effects. you are talking about a deficiency from say.... years of smoking or drinking, becoming deficient in something, causing an altered gene expression to be passed down. Thats where the whole "sins of the father" comes about.

i can give you 200 examples of them being altered by something inside the body. give me one, just one example of a gene being switched off from something not there.

stop being a hardo but feel free to PM scooterman and keep your theories to yourselves. honestly, did you have any idea retinoids had an effect on intracellular copper levels or the ATP7A protein before this week? or let me guess.. you dont read this thread either.

the f#$@% guy who started this thread was/is convinced hes copper toxic for Christ sakes. and not one person on this thread saying "copper toxicity" has posted any relevant RBC test.. except for me. showing a deficiency. and i eat a ton of copper rich foods!

If you're referring to me, I'm only saying I'm copper toxic because that's what my test results indicated working with a reputable Kinesiologist - I understand your point about making sure you get the right test, perhaps at the time the guy I was working with didn't know about all the various tests - anyway let's just assume I'm deficient!!

After reading what you and others are saying about copper deficiency I'm sure you are right. I've just purchased a copper supplement - hope to have in a couple of days when it arrives in mail!!

Some of the reviews say it's good for varicose veins ( mine are bad post tane ) also good for greying hair ( lately that's me )
These are just 2 things that I can work on and hopefully get a recovery.

Note: My Keineisiologist put me on "moly zinc" when he believed I was copper toxic - do NOT take it unless you are toxic as it will deplete your copper levels and make your problems even worse!!

You live and learn. If we all have a deficiency let's get on a copper supplement as a starting point, we've got nothing to lose, take one a day and see how we go!!

31 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

If you're referring to me, I'm only saying I'm copper toxic because that's what my test results indicated working with a reputable Kinesiologist - I understand your point about making sure you get the right test, perhaps at the time the guy I was working with didn't know about all the various tests - anyway let's just assume I'm deficient!!

After reading what you and others are saying about copper deficiency I'm sure you are right. I've just purchased a copper supplement - hope to have in a couple of days when it arrives in mail!!

Some of the reviews say it's good for varicose veins ( mine are bad post tane ) also good for greying hair ( lately that's me )
These are just 2 things that I can work on and hopefully get a recovery.

Note: My Keineisiologist put me on "moly zinc" when he believed I was copper toxic - do NOT take it unless you are toxic as it will deplete your copper levels and make your problems even worse!!

You live and learn. If we all have a deficiency let's get on a copper supplement as a starting point, we've got nothing to lose, take one a day and see how we go!!

wasnt you!!

a good read on what doctors know and dont know....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/12/magazine/12wwln_diagnosis.html

Again the idea of nutritional balancing is to regulate all minerals in the body to adequate levels, however this cant be achieved by taking, for example a copper supplement to increase copper, all mineral levels are linked together and effect each other.

Here is a great document from a man who had spent most of his life researching these patterns and ratios, instead of a bunch of people on the internet with no extensive qualifications at all in terms of health.

http://freedom-school.com/health/healthview-newsletter-27-29.pdf

24 minutes ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

wasnt you!!

a good read on what doctors know and dont know....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/12/magazine/12wwln_diagnosis.html

No worries - I appreciate your feedback anyway. Here I am to this day thinking I'm copper toxic when chances are I'm deficient.

God only knows how much I've set myself back by taking moly zinc - looking forward to taking copper supplement and seeing an improvement!!

cheers 🙂

2 hours ago, marlin15 said:

the guy you posted to be a "copper guru" also believes in morgellons disease...
Very Credible info man. We're really headed straight for a solution!

lol yea i havent watched the video,but you guys should take a look at this. also mms is a sham and possibly dangerous.
not hating just saying

9 hours ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

instead of talking down to people that are looking at all possibilities... post your "mechanisms underlying cellular differentation" or simply give one example of a gene being switched off by something no longer in the body that didnt cause an ongoing deficiency? for the 100th time , you cannot change your genetic code. what is so hard to grasp about this? we didnt grow a third leg, our liver is still there. your eyes didnt turn a different color. gene expression can only be altered by a toxin or a deficiency. thats all. these CAN BE FIXED. theres no "burnt field." a burnt field is when you have a leg or arm amputated, or need an immediate liver transplant.. that you cant fix. thats why the whole entire field of epigenetics and methylation protocols have taken off.
we are not passing these accutane side effects down to our children. our kids skin wont be dry from us taking accutane. they wont have one of our side effects. you are talking about a deficiency from say.... years of smoking or drinking, becoming deficient in something, causing an altered gene expression to be passed down. Thats where the whole "sins of the father" comes about.

i can give you 200 examples of them being altered by something inside the body. give me one, just one example of a gene being switched off from something not there.

stop being a hardo but feel free to PM scooterman and keep your theories to yourselves. honestly, did you have any idea retinoids had an effect on intracellular copper levels or the ATP7A protein before this week? or let me guess.. you dont read this thread either.

the f#$@% guy who started this thread was/is convinced hes copper toxic for Christ sakes. and not one person on this thread saying "copper toxicity" has posted any relevant RBC test.. except for me. showing a deficiency. and i eat a ton of copper rich foods!

"post your "mechanisms underlying cellular differentation" "

"or simply give one example of a gene being switched off by something no longer in the body that didnt cause an ongoing deficiency?"

^ These articles discuss permanent changes in gene regulation caused by substances which are no longer present, and in the case of the cancer drug tamoxifen, reversal of the suppression of ER-responsive genes by the hypomethylating agent azacitidine.

"our kids skin wont be dry from us taking accutane. they wont have one of our side effects"

The articles posted above also identify potential dangers of these epigenetic alterations being passed from parents to children via effects on germ cells.

From your first link.....Proving what i was saying? Nothing has changed with our base DNA

"The term epigenetics has been used to refer to changes in gene expression, which are heritable through multiple cell division cycles that are not due to variations in primary DNA sequence.1-3 "


from your second link.... 

"With more chronic exposure, cells adapt by an unknown hypothetical process that results in more permanent modifications to DNA methylation and chromatin structure, leading to enduring alteration of a given epigenetic network."

You sure these guys arent accutane researchers? Again...they cant tell you why its happening, they dont know if its from something still inside you, or not.  "Chronic exposure" to me means, more of a chance of something being left behind?  thats besides the point.  i am not arguing that a genetic expression is still turned on... i agree 1000% with that.  the only difference in our argument is why?

from your third link....  
 

which basically describes word for word...the  picture i posted last week, showing retinoids affecting intracellular copper homeostasis.

accutane alters the RAR-b receptor as a ligand----> altering and upregulating the transcription of the ATP7A protein---->causing intracellular copper deficiency---->causing cell death.   This is why accutane is a chemotherapy drug first and foremost.   It does this same thing with SAM-E and methionine.

what my picture does say at the bottom though, in black and white... is that we can attenuate this  with copper supplementation.

Nothing im seeing says you cant alter it back. thats the whole point of taking methylating substances.  It wouldnt be logical to say that by taking a drug, you changed an expression, making it permanent...but in the same breath,  you couldnt take a counteracting drug or substance to change it back? makes no sense at all.  these are expressions...1000s of expressions get changed all of the time by what you eat, what you do, what you think...basically the entire environment around you.  the only thing permanent is your DNA.