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10 hours ago, trantran83333 said:
correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't vit A lower your vit D levels?
anyways I didn't take vit D for brain fog or fatigue. I took it for recurrent sinus infections and everyday blocked nose. I had to sleep sitting up at night, that's the only way I could breath.
back then I didn't know it was tane causing it, but sinus,blocked nose, fatigue and brain fog went away. because my D levels were so high and I must have knocked something out of balance and it gave me tinnitus. I'm guessing it's all about balance, that's why I want to get a hair test. I want professional advice, I'm not doing very well being my own doctor.
Im also from Australia,
merry Christmas to you and everyone here, may 2016 be good to everybody. I hope everyone will feel better soon
Thats interseting with Vit D, I'm going to look into it more as I also feel blocked up and snotty all the time.
l think there is a link between Vitamins A,E & D, they're all fat soluble and one effects the other. It's interesting though how some people say that to combat tane issues you should take Vit A - the synthetic form that makes up tane affects the true Vit A regulation. I'm yet to take Vit A by itself so can't say for sure if it helps or not but the theory is interesting!
Doctors are frustrating - I went to a new one the other day and tried to explain how I've been feeling for the last 18 years. I love getting the response of...."that's unusual that you have these side effects so long after taking Roaccutane". Theyjust don't know how we feel.
We are currently doingsome blood tests, I want to check everything and don't care how many times I've got to go back, how many visits to pathology or how much bulk billing is taking place - I want some clear results so I can know for sure what I can actually work on trying to fix!!
I can't dwell on the doctors first response of "that's unusual"for too long or it will bring me to tears.... Yeah Itmight be unusual but it's fucking real and I'm not the only one. Get your head out of the sand and understand what's going on here.
I also see a Kinesiologist - we did a hair mineral analysis a couple of years ago and it came back saying excess copper. For this he said to take zinc, manganese and iron supplements. I did but I feel no different!!?
Next year I want to work on combating the depression - thisside effect is the most dibilitating. I can handle thedry skin & hair, the cracking joints and stiffness. I can handle the fatigue and tirednessbut the depression makes functioning in a work environment extremely hard at times.I like to work and I have a great job,but the depression impacts on my performance and I'd like to change this if I can!!
Have a great Christmas too, and thanks for responding to my post!!
http://www.amazon.com/Miraculous-Results-Extremely-Sunshine-Experiment/dp/1491243821
Above is the link to the book that I had found by jeff t Bowles, all about vit D and the massive doses he'd taken. I really don't reccomend anyone taking that many tho.
The depression u said u have, is it that empty feeling, that nothing is good in your life and nothing worth living for, accompanied with anxiety and stress? I had that.... I noticed feeling really happy while onvit D therapy.
I was taking doses of 30,000iu vit D a day, what a mistake that was tho and was stupid for not getting my bloods tested.
But yeh like I said sinus, fatigue, brain fog went away alsofelt happy again, I even went out clubbing and drinking a few times coz I felt good.
You should really look into it
Merry Christmas!
I'm between phones atm, so I have t been and won't be active for a while yet.
had 1.5m IU vitamin A between the 18-20 of December, felt pretty much like accurate with dry skin and lips, got rashes on my forearms and back of knees, but that was all. Mentally felt good, but I don't plan to do it again for some time. I got a bit of skin peeling and susceptibility to sunburn increased (speculative theory is to reduce retinoids poisoning your body makes itself as receptive to Vitamin D as possible, because it is the ratio of the two that causes toxicity, so maybe you won't get those sides if you took Vitamin D as well)
I'm feeling good, but too soon to recommend anyone else to do what I did, and my 2km time trial was 20 seconds slower than expected, though strength in the gym was fine. Just getting as much info out there as possible, may have forgotten something but that's all for now.
Wish you all a Merry Christmas, hope your having a great time 
Stefan @IndigoRush, you gave up, plain and simple. You likely function well enough and are willing do deal with your current issues. Some of us are not. And this thread is more of a "how to improve any kind of health issue or improve your life even if you are healthy" than it is a "figure out what the fuck accutane did thread" now..
Its obviously your choice but enjoy never improving anything..
Having read all of this thread you never knew what you were doing in terms of supplementing and diet anyway so obviously it didnt work for you..
Dont encourage people to adapt your defeatist attitude and give up on improving their life.
Sure, maybe theres no cure, maybe we are changed at the core. No matter how sick or healthy a person is they can still improve with adding beneficial things to their life.
Thanks for starting the thread but i strongly encourage you to stop posting if you are going to encourage people to give up and just deal with it.
Some people are bedridden after accutane. You are still good looking and function relatively well, others do not function at all and need to find answers.
On 12/22/2015 at 1:28 AM, Mike San said:There is something I feel askew with my dopamine signalling, so that does make sense. Then again, I have been on SSRIS (which lower dopamine) so its tough to say if its from Accutane or SSRI, but the main issues started during and after Accutane. I had been on SSRIs for years before with no issues there.
One should considersome dopaminergic medications if experiencinglow mood in combination with low sex drive and normal hormone levels. All taken in much lower doses than given to Parkinsons patients and safe. Ie L-Dopa with Carbidopa , Cabergoline, Selegiline (also an approved antidepressant).
I've tried L-dopa twice andboth times lead to a great enhancementof mood, appetite, and sex drive. Unfortunately, I had to taper off it was causing me some insomnia, but no other side effects. Then again, I am very prone to insomnia, so you may be more lucky.
Im now going to try cabergoline soon.
Itried supplements such as tyrosine, mucuna pruriens, etc and felt nothing.
I used cabergoline and pramipexole. Cabergoline was good but prami made me a zombie, but its supposed to make you feel awful for a week or two before it makes you feel good. It can make you hypersexual, shopping/gambling addict tho because of the huge dopamine increases
Mucuna works for me but ive never felt anything from tyrosine or n-a-tyrosine
Ill probably try an SSRI in the future if all else fails. Theres still hundreds of tweaks to try first.. Im the kind of guy who wont go on a pharma drug before im sure i cant solve it otherwise.. (Because of accutane and valium. Valium left me more demented than my grandma for like 6 months after quitting it)
On 12/22/2015 at 3:20 AM, HARMaceutic said:
HumbleBee
Tests: [Removed]
Immune system: [Removed]
Cant put on weight: [Removed]
Supplement all nutrients that you dont get from diet..
Relentless! Please don't talk about quitting...your contributions have been a massive driving force here lately and more people appreciate your them thanyou know... you've told me valuable info about supplements I was taking that lead to some changes already.
I am about to get another major hormone panel done... I noticed I've never actually had DHT tested....
isserum DHT or 5AR activity typically measured and reliable ?
I have never tried topical DHT and as you said if there is some permanent alteration to the 5AR activity , it would make sense to try this instead of T shots or even gel.
anyone been tested forbiotinidase deficiency? was reading in another forum a girl took accutane 10 YEARS AGO and more recently got tested by her doctor and had a partial biotinidase deficiency, thisafter 10 years post treatment! doing a little research on this,therapy for this is high dose biotin up to 40 mg per day! and treatment should be life long! anyone stuck on thismost obvious biotin bandwagon at 40mg per day for say 6 months? a year? im guessing not.
biotin deficiency can also cause inflammation of mucus membranes for those with severe sinus issues. im one of them. ive been getting dizzy, ear fullness, nasal congestion, sinus pressure. and can maybe also heighten nasal allergies. read 1 study where deficiency increased metal allergy in ratsby upregulating some allergy receptor. thought was this could apply tohumans as well.
4 hours ago, guitarman01 said:anyone been tested forbiotinidase deficiency? was reading in another forum a girl took accutane 10 YEARS AGO and more recently got tested by her doctor and had a partial biotinidase deficiency, thisafter 10 years post treatment! doing a little research on this,therapy for this is high dose biotin up to 40 mg per day! and treatment should be life long! anyone stuck on thismost obvious biotin bandwagon at 40mg per day for say 6 months? a year? im guessing not.
biotin deficiency can also cause inflammation of mucus membranes for those with severe sinus issues. im one of them. ive been getting dizzy, ear fullness, nasal congestion, sinus pressure. and can maybe also heighten nasal allergies. read 1 study where deficiency increased metal allergy in ratsby upregulating some allergy receptor. thought was this could apply tohumans as well.
I had my biotin levels checked, and actually I think there is only one lab if your in the U.S. that test this since it is rare deficiency here. I was low and have been taking biotin everyday for about 3-4 years. I was also deficient in Vit D, B12, Magnesium, Iron and ferritin. I think there might been a few others can't remember. Hope that answers your question.
On 12/26/2015, 5:34:17, guitarman01 said:yea f it. im hopping on this biotin train. doses up to 600mgs have been safe for a couple months. now who on the internet has ever tried that? lol.
im gona need a shitload of biotin....
On 12/26/2015, 2:14:34, Witknee2 said:I regret taking accutane. I developed IBS. I say take some Moringa Powder and Olive leaf extract!
You guys are way too narrow minded, you wont solve your issues with these supplements
Its good to get in biotin daily obviously though.
But ive used 5000mcg of it for 2 months in a row (2,5 years ago when tane side effects started)and also used sublingual 1000mcg ones recently.
Its not magic
I'm sorry that this is so off topic, but does anyone here live in SF or in the bay area? I would love to meet up and just talk some stuff out. I took a regular 5 month course, followed by a 9~10 month(!) low-dose course the followingyear. I feel that I've never been the same mentally since. I forget words a lot more than I used to, space out a lot more. I still have a wonderful job and a really kind significant other. But in other ways, my social and sexual life have taken a turn for the worse. I'm always worried about performance and my diminished social skills, which I initially attributed to just 'not-hanging-out-with-others-as-much-post-college-syndrome', now I know, isn't true.
My parents, especially my mother, who always vehemently was against accutane, would be devastated to hear that I've made this horrible decision with lasting horrific side effects. I do have close friends I could share personal problems with, but as they are libido-related in nature, I'm afraid they'll never look at me the same way again, which is why I've been so hesitant to approach them.
1 hour ago, i3sushi said:I'm sorry that this is so off topic, but does anyone here live in SF or in the bay area? I would love to meet up and just talk some stuff out. I took a regular 5 month course, followed by a 9~10 month(!) low-dose course the following year. I feel that I've never been the same mentally since. I forget words a lot more than I used to, space out a lot more. I still have a wonderful job and a really kind significant other. But in other ways, my social and sexual life have taken a turn for the worse. I'm always worried about performance and my diminished social skills, which I initially attributed to just 'not-hanging-out-with-others-as-much-post-college-syndrome', now I know, isn't true.
My parents, especially my mother, who always vehemently was against accutane, would be devastated to hear that I've made this horrible decision with lasting horrific side effects. I do have close friends I could share personal problems with, but as they are libido-related in nature, I'm afraid they'll never look at me the same way again, which is why I've been so hesitant to approach them.
Not that i live anywhere close but thats a nice idea if anyone on here needs someone to talk to.
Even though i cant meet up with you i want you to know that you are not alone and the symptoms are real, both the physical and mental ones.
You cant talk to it with your significant other?
Best regards 
-------
Originally sent this in a message but its relevant to the thread since people have been focusing a lot on the 5AR / DHT stuff
If your test and dht levels are good/normal then either people have been focusing on that whole DHT thing wrongly for way too long or accutane did something to the receptors, which doesnt really make sense either since receptors get remade all the time. People claim androgen receptors regenerate/new ones are made daily.
But lets take another look for example at recreational drugs. People who used cocaine or MDMA a lot then did not take it for 10 years or 5 years etc say even after those breaks the experience was not as strong or good as the first times. Which either indicates receptors do not fully go back to their "virgin" states, or it simply means there was some neurogenesis with that experience so its sort of engraved in your nervous system (like riding a bike), hence your brain will always recognize it and it wont ever feel like the first time. Same with sex, i mean yeah its great if you havent had it in 10 years but it does not replicate the first time. (or masurbation)
Sorry for the off topic.. But yeah maybe accutane made some changes to receptors in various parts including the brain and they either never recover or they just dont respond as they once did.
If they dont respond as they once did even tho they are healthy, that means downregulation which means one could achieve pre accutane results with high doses of DHT or testosterone. Which is not safe long term but it would confirm if that is the case.
I think this might be why bodybuilders who take accutane do not suffer libido/ED issues. They already take monster amounts of testosterone and DHT drug injections
If there is indeed less sexual sides in BBers (not doubting that but not sure if entirely true ), we don't know for sure its cause they take DHT ? They don't all take DHT compounds anyway and remember,accutane also affectscortisol, testosterone, LH, IGF, GH and more.
Im still trying DHT though !
Everybody , listen up !
I have found the CURE ! My friend who had Erectile Dysfunction , and suicidal chronic depression due to Accutane has cured himself with a miracle supplement , this nightmare is going toover..
More detail coming soon , im just dropping the name right now :
***ST. JOHNS WORT****
Search it on web you'll see.
1 hour ago, SaffronAide said:Everybody , listen up !
I have found the CURE ! My friend who had Erectile Dysfunction , and suicidal chronic depression due to Accutane has cured himself with a miracle supplement , this nightmare is going toover..
More detail coming soon , im just dropping the name right now :
***ST. JOHNS WORT****
Search it on web you'll see.
do you honestly think this hasn't been tried?
3 hours ago, marlin15 said:do you honestly think this hasn't been tried?
anything that induces CYP3A4 should theoreticallyhelp, this is the enzyme that gets rid of isotretinoin metabolites..... st johns wart andresveratrol (for UGTs) are two i looked at long ago.
So.. St john's wort is a PXR/CYP34A inducer(just like ethanol) ---->increases isotretinoin catabolism
PXR ligand activation is like a drug watchdog for your body.. so by taking a PXR ligand such as st johns wort reset something?? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12569201
does isotretinoin somehow bypass this watchdog?
Retinoids, used as cancer therapeutic and chemopreventive agents, possess antiproliferative, differentiation-inducing, proapoptotic, and other effects that could target multiple steps in carcinogenesis (Dragnevet al., 2000). However, it is not clear whether retinoids are capable of activating the RXR/SXR-mediated pathway and then leading to potential drug-drug interactions due to CYP3A induction. Also, CYP3A participates in the catabolism of retinoids, which might be an important mechanism underlying the development of drug resistance in cancer chemotherapy using retinoids (Muindiet al., 1992). Several lines of evidence showed the correlation between levels of retinoids and CYP enzyme activity (Hauswirth, 1987;Howellet al., 1998). A recent study suggested that -carotene and its metabolites (carotenals) may activate SXR (Ruhlet al., 2004). To evaluate the properties of different retinoids in activation of the RXR/SXR-mediated pathway, the current study is performed by measuring CYP3A4 induction at the levels of transcription and enzyme activity in a cell linebased system.
. Due to the marked species differences in response to PXR ligands,Pxr-null, wild-type, andPXR-humanized transgenic mouse models were used. In addition to pregnenolone 16-carbonitrile, several clinically relevant PXR ligands (rifampicin and dexamethasone) all increased ATRA metabolism both in vitro and in vivo, which was PXR-dependent, and up-regulation of Cyp3a was the major contributor. Furthermore, induction of theMdr1a,Mrp3, andOatp2genes was also observed. This study suggested that coadministration of PXR ligands can increase ATRA metabolism through activation of the PXR-CYP3A pathway, which might be a mechanism for some form of ATRA resistance. Other PXR target transporters might also be involved.
In this study, the effects of various PXR ligands on ATRA metabolism and the possible mechanisms were examined using a combination of in vitro and in vivo studies. Overall, our data suggest that acquired resistance to ATRA might be explained in part by the concomitant administration of PXR ligands through activation of the PXR-CYP3A pathway, accelerating the catabolism of ATRA by induced CYP3A. Moreover, other induced PXR target transporter genes might also be involved. Because a variety of compounds, including prescription or nonprescription drugs, herbal or alternative medicines, and even components in foods, have been demonstrated as PXR ligands, this mechanism may have serious clinical impact. An improved understanding of the mechanisms of ATRA resistance holds considerable promise for both the prevention and attenuation of this resistance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2268525/
another reason why people feel better after drinking......
http://whyfiles.org/150alt_med2/5.html
Slurp, slurp.
CYP3A is one of the cytochrome P450 proteins, which, like a diligent crew of cleaners and scrubbers, specialize in ridding the body of fat-associated (lipophilic) chemicals. Interestingly, Jacqueline Sinclair, a biochemistry researcher at Dartmouth College, has found that ethanol -- drinking alcohol -- also triggers CYP3A -- increasing the metabolism of drugs.
That, shewrites, could explain why heavy drinking clears out medicines from the body. Since the list of meds includes the painkiller acetaminophen, alcohol could explain the liver toxicity associated with that drug.
19 hours ago, Relentless1k said:
You guys are way too narrow minded, you wont solve your issues with these supplements
Its good to get in biotin daily obviously though.
But ive used 5000mcg of it for 2 months in a row (2,5 years ago when tane side effects started)and also used sublingual 1000mcg ones recently.
Its not magic
5000mcg equals 5mgs. if you read my previous post before that,its a medical fact that a person with an actual Biotinidase deficiency could require up to 40mgs or 40,000mcg PER DAY to resolve deficiency symptoms.I just read a study where a girl had hair loss that didnt resolve at 10-15mgs (10,000 to 15,000mcgs)per day, but her hair did grow back at a dose of 20mgs(20,000mcgs) per day. and once the right dose is found depending on the severity of the deficiency of the BIOTINIDASE enzyme,Then this same dose treatment is LIFELONG EVERYDAY. It is also a fact that accutane can cause a biotinidase deficiency, and that I read on a forum a girl just got diagnosed by her doctor with a partial biotinidase deficiency 10 YEARS after taking accutane.
Now im not saying this is it, but it sure dont seem very narrow minded to me. and when I said 600mgs were safe for a couple months used for studies on multiple sclerosis, I mean 600,000mcgs per day.
http://www.oral-immunology.dent.tohoku.ac.jp/research5_en.html
A Japanese study on theRegulation of inflammation by biotin.
5 hours ago, guitarman01 said:http://www.oral-immunology.dent.tohoku.ac.jp/research5_en.html
A Japanese study on theRegulation of inflammation by biotin.
interesting! Are u going to trial this? I don't have hair loss justpremature greying and inflammation yes
also heard high doses of biotin can deplete b5 and cause skin break outs. So it also good to look into b5 as well if you're consideringbiotin
St Johns Wort has been mentioned a number of times on this thread, but as isoften the case there are few reports back from people whove tried it, and then those that do probably take a very small dosage for a short period (i.e. whats recommended in the container).
The fact its a PXR/CYP34A inducer like ethanol (as TTH2014 mentions) is quite interesting though, but with alcohol it does take a significant amount to result in improvements - i.e. its only after a big night out you feel the benefits, not after just a few beers.
If St Johns Wort does result in improvements I bet ifs after taking a large amount, probably well over the recommended supplementation level on the container.
Any apparent improvement/recovery from accutane sides has to be taken seriously though, so let us know if you hear any further details SaffronAide, and if you can find out how much this guy took
9 hours ago, tanedout said:St Johns Wort has been mentioned a number of times on this thread, but as is often the case there are few reports back from people who™ve tried it, and then those that do probably take a very small dosage for a short period (i.e. what™s recommended in the container).
The fact it™s a PXR/CYP34A inducer like ethanol (as TTH2014 mentions) is quite interesting though, but with alcohol it does take a significant amount to result in improvements - i.e. it™s only after a big night out you feel the benefits, not after just a few beers.
If St Johns Wort does result in improvements I bet if™s after taking a large amount, probably well over the recommended supplementation level on the container.
Any apparent improvement/recovery from accutane sides has to be taken seriously though, so let us know if you hear any further details SaffronAide, and if you can find out how much this guy took
Maybe an A-Ha moment....kinda never been more excited.
What if i showed a chart that increased the ability of St. Johns Wort to induce the CYP34A retinoic acid destoying enzyme 30x?!! Not only that, but that it upregulated all of the CYP26s and UGTs detoxifying enzymes as well? What if we have to take a cocktail? One part of the cocktail would be the PXR inducing ligand, and the other... a PXR enhancer, that also has the ability to conjugate whatever the PXR mobilizes?
A very very cool paper (read the entire thing 3x if you have to!) PXR is the master detoxification regulator. Qhen you take drugs, drink alcohol, smoke marijuana....even when you eat foods with the safe beta carotene version of VIT A , it upregulates this PXR enzyme. Guess what doesnt upregulate it? 9-cis retinoic acid. very close to 13-cis...and im betting thats why our body doesnt kick it out. I remember to this day, speaking to a lady at Roche 20 years ago, and her words to me, "You could do the exact thing with normal vitamin A, but you would need to take way too much of it, and as soon as you stopped, the effects would wear off"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925443911000275
3.7. PXR in retinoic acid metabolism
Retinoic acid (RA) is the metabolite of vitamin A that binds to and activates the retinoic acid receptor (RAR). RAR forms a heterodimer with RXR and activates the transcription of genes associated with cell differentiation [143] and apoptosis [144], leading to inhibition of cell growth. Therefore, RAs have been used or tested as anti-cancer agents in several human cancer types [145]. However, RA resistance represents a major limit to its clinical use, which might be explained at least in part by the co-administration of a PXR agonist. Ligand activated PXR can induce expression of CYP3A and transporters such as MDR1A, MRP3 and OATP2, which accelerate RA metabolism [146]. It has been suggested that PXR antagonists might be useful in preventing RA resistance.
...so on this last line it says," It has been suggested that PXR antagonists might be useful in preventing RA resistance." ......
we want to do the opposite of this... we want to promote the RA metabolism with a PXR agonist.
....they tell you right on the accutane box not to take St Johns wort at the same time...but their reason is because it makes birth control pills useless.... but what it also does is make accutane less effective?
RFP is another PXR inducer, just like St Johns wort. Now replace RFP on this chart with St Johns Wort.
A Paper showing St Johns Wort is a potent PXR inducer on the same level as RFP
also... on page 169 , it states that this combination has the ability to reverse intra-hepatic cholestasis. many feel this is our main problem with recycling over and over without being able to eliminate it.
So what these charts show ..... taking Taurine by itself doesnt induce the PXR induced CYP34A enzyme very much. but when you take it together with a PXR inducing ligand (St Johns Wort), its like a super stacking effect increasing it exponentially!
http://suzycohen.com/articles/stressed-out-adrenal-supplements-to-the-rescue-2/
Please write about biotin deficiency, this is what killed my husband. No one detected it and I want to alert everyone. Love your work, hope to meet you one day. J.P., Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
so theres that. would sure like to know the story of the woman who sent that in. could not find any more info or validity on this article though.
8 hours ago, trantran83333 said:
interesting! Are u going to trial this? I don't have hair loss justpremature greying and inflammation yes
also heard high doses of biotin can deplete b5 and cause skin break outs. So it also good to look into b5 as well if you're consideringbiotin
yes, I plan on taking 40mgs (40,000mcgs) of biotin per day. and I would actually welcome acne and oily skin. but I will post any positive results. I have had serious issues with ear fullness,sinus and throat pain for quite a while now, also headaches and dizziness. So if biotin defeciency has any effect with increasing cytokine productionit could be increasing any allergic type reactions. which I just got allergy tested and i am allergic to every environmental allergy you can be allergic to.
48 minutes ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:So what these charts show is.... taking Taurine by itself doesnt induce the PXR induced CYP34Aenzyme very much. but when you take it together with a PXR inducing ligand (St Johns Wort), its like a super stacking effect increasing it exponentially!
Will be looking at this next. sounds promising if accutane is still in our system after all these years. been probably about 16yrs for me. I know st johns wort when it was big in the 90s lost alot of steam because it had drug interactions with just about everything.