I was wondering if any of yall find your penis turns a bit of a bluish/purplish color sometimes from lack of blood flow? Wrinkly head as well? That's what my problem is. I have a feeling I may have damaged a blood vessel or something to constrict proper blood flow. When I tried thinking back, I feel my erection issues more noticably started when I first attempted using a penis pump a couple years back.

I know the problem started from accutane because it was the whole reason I first ordered the pump becasue I noticed my eq was not as good as it was, but not really that bad. Then after using the pump a couple times, I stopped for a few months and found myself going back and trying it. Those were cheap ones from China by the way. Recently I tried the bathmate because it's supposedly safer becasue it is using water pressure. I used it a few times already but it really isn't doing much and after using it is when I sometimes noticed the changes in penis color from lack of blood sometimes.

So anyway, do yall notice changes in penis along those lines? And do you feel there are times your erection is better eg. when peeing, morning, etc.?

Cause mines is pretty much dead all the time nowadays.

Also, for people with hair loss, especially on your hair line, I came across this video of a guy who regrew his hairline with a derma roller and lavender oil. I am currently trying this.

Previously I mentioned starting minoxidil, well I stoped because it will literally age your face over time. I was getting wrinkles around my eyes when I smile that were never there before ever starting minox.

I appreciate the fact that he believes in only natural remedies which caught my attention and imo he achieved some pretty great results in a few months.

Here's the video:

[Edited link out]

Interesting ...why not combat raised estrogen (if that is the cause) rather than the downstream effects? Will be very interested in your hair mineral results.

 

It's a bit of a jump to then postulate that high estrogen (if confirmed by a test) is the cause of your high copper (again, if confirmed), which is then the cause of low dopamine (impossible to test for).

Im sort of under the impression that if my estrogen was high it has since gone done. Im sure high estrogen side effects would be more visible. Its also understood that copper toxicity builds up first in the liver and then once thats full slowly starts making its way to the brain and builds up there, where it is a lot harder for it to be removed through the bodies natural homeostatis, as perhaps opposed to estrogen. None the less Im planning on getting some blood work done over the next few days so I can add it to the list of stuff to check.

Always super awkward walking in and being like, hey, I know you dont know whats wrong with me and I know Ive been in here many many times before but just get these blood tests done for me. Lol.

Heres an article on copper toxicity, worth a read even for the sake of friends and family, as things like copper piping and womens copper IUD contraceptive do-hickeys can have the same devastating effects.

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

I just wanted to ay that for the last week I have been taking pretty big doses of L-tryosine and DL-phenylalanine (about 2g sometimes more each) and I have noticed massive increases in mood and general appreciation for life. Not all my symptoms have disapeared and I wouldnt say Im 100% cleared but I am defiantly on my way there now. Feeling 1000% better than I did two years ago.

 

My memory has improved and my brain fog has started to disapear.

 

This also comes after about 3 monts of nofap (PMO reboot) and also abstaining from Porn for over a year.

 

Im still pretty certain I have a copper toxicity from when I took accutane in Dec 2012 and this fix now will only be temporary to prove to myself thats what is happening.

 

My next course of action is to get a hair mineral analysis done and start balacing mineral levels correctly.

 

A member of a website caleld propeciahelp basically uncovered all this...

 

stating that like accutune, finasteride increases estrogen

 

which increases copper

 

Copper creats a toxic substance in the brain which basically breaks down dopamine and most likely other important sutff

 

Lack of dopamine is what causes depression memory loss and all that.

 

His name on the site is 'letsconvenience' and can be found only by a member search for authors in the advanced search function.

 

He goes on to state that the supplements I mentioned before worked well for about 2 months until they stated to diminish, most likely due to dopamine receptors.

 

He then tried to increase his dopamine receptors through the use of certain nootropics and while that did help he understood it was no permanent fix and eventually discovered copper toxicity and went down the path of Hair mineral analysis and supplementation mediated by a practioner called Alex Tuggle.

 

Anyway, check my posts and shit Ive been struggling with this for fucking ages.

 

KOI

There are plenty of natural aromatase inhibitors out there to lower estrogen, I've been using one called 'Erase' (there is also Erase Pro) and it definitely works, it'll help with ED for example, but I find I get to the stage where e is probably too low. I can then raise testosterone by using pine pollen powder (will feel great for a while) then I end up with e getting too high, and get symptoms like sensitive nipples. It seems to be difficult to find the right balance. Neither things seem to help with dopamine much however, so you don't get sensitivity back, at least I haven't yet.

Some people suffering from finasteride sides have recovered using low doses of aromatase inhibitors for a period of time, although in most cases they are using phara-grade stuff and I'm reluctant to go down that route after the tane experience, but potentially it could work.

 

I just wanted to ay that for the last week I have been taking pretty big doses of L-tryosine and DL-phenylalanine (about 2g sometimes more each) and I have noticed massive increases in mood and general appreciation for life. Not all my symptoms have disapeared and I wouldnt say Im 100% cleared but I am defiantly on my way there now. Feeling 1000% better than I did two years ago.

 

My memory has improved and my brain fog has started to disapear.

 

This also comes after about 3 monts of nofap (PMO reboot) and also abstaining from Porn for over a year.

 

Im still pretty certain I have a copper toxicity from when I took accutane in Dec 2012 and this fix now will only be temporary to prove to myself thats what is happening.

 

My next course of action is to get a hair mineral analysis done and start balacing mineral levels correctly.

 

A member of a website caleld propeciahelp basically uncovered all this...

 

stating that like accutune, finasteride increases estrogen

 

which increases copper

 

Copper creats a toxic substance in the brain which basically breaks down dopamine and most likely other important sutff

 

Lack of dopamine is what causes depression memory loss and all that.

 

His name on the site is 'letsconvenience' and can be found only by a member search for authors in the advanced search function.

 

He goes on to state that the supplements I mentioned before worked well for about 2 months until they stated to diminish, most likely due to dopamine receptors.

 

He then tried to increase his dopamine receptors through the use of certain nootropics and while that did help he understood it was no permanent fix and eventually discovered copper toxicity and went down the path of Hair mineral analysis and supplementation mediated by a practioner called Alex Tuggle.

 

Anyway, check my posts and shit Ive been struggling with this for fucking ages.

 

KOI

 

There are plenty of natural aromatase inhibitors out there to lower estrogen, I've been using one called 'Erase' (there is also Erase Pro) and it definitely works, it'll help with ED for example, but I find I get to the stage where e is probably too low. I can then raise testosterone by using pine pollen powder (will feel great for a while) then I end up with e getting too high, and get symptoms like sensitive nipples. It seems to be difficult to find the right balance. Neither things seem to help with dopamine much however, so you don't get sensitivity back, at least I haven't yet.

 

Some people suffering from finasteride sides have recovered using low doses of aromatase inhibitors for a period of time, although in most cases they are using phara-grade stuff and I'm reluctant to go down that route after the tane experience, but potentially it could work.

mentioned in my previous post how Im not looking to lower estrogen so yeah.

Coffee enemas and infrared sauna? Looks like one of the many quacks with an expensive 'wellness' program based on no evidence.

A new theory to help with the elevated GNMT enzyme that could be caught in a loop years after stopping accutane. Simple Glycine supplementation! will start with 8 grams per day.

http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/etd/13056/

Oral S-adenosyl methionine (SAM) mediates disruptions in methyl group metabolism due to retinoic acid therapy and alters neurotransmitter metabolism: implications for major depressive disorder

I think I read somewhere on here that people recover from propecia but not from accutane.

How is that even possible?? Propecia is way more dangerous than accutane(to a male at least). Post finasterade syndrome is much more well known.

I have no doubt that accutane can be dangerous but makes me wonder how many people here bought it online and wasn't administrated by a doctor? It's a lot more dangerous under those circumstances.

@tryingtohelp2014

the article is talking about SAM supplementation...

Why do you think glycine supplementation is the way to go?

On 8/16/2015 at 10:43 PM, vianello said:

@tryingtohelp2014

the article is talking about SAM supplementation...

Why do you think glycine supplementation is the way to go?

i will put everything together... but long story short, Glycine is what might be missing due to the upregulation of the GNMT enzyme by accutane. this basically uses up the entire pool of available glycine, and this causes an imbalance in the SAM/SAH ratio. methyl-folate shouldve corrected this imbalance as some have suggested,, by downregulating the enzyme... but it hasnt worked. Why?

I think everything that this drug upregulates is our bodies way of telling us what we need more of. In this case Glycine

Glycine is needed in everything from:

bile flow

Collagen formation (joint pain and tendons clicking and popping)

TEWL disorders (excessive sweating post accutane do to skin damage, sebaceous gland shutdown.)

liver detoxification

T4-T3 conversion in the liver

IBS

This is why bone broth is the new rage.... its the Glycine content that promotes the benefits for IBS/Chrons

[Edited link out]

[Edited link out]

Hellow, posting here first time, read alot here.

note: english not my native language

the next is parts of my messeges from this forum

forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/accutane-methylation-block-and-glycine-n-methyltransferase.26042/

posting here in hope tryingtohelp2014 or someone else could have some ideas about it to help me.

''

So from this thread and the other two droit linked to i get that the retonic acid (accutane) causes Glycine n-methyltransferase to be hyperacvtive .

but i wonder what is the role of this enzyme glycine N-methyltransferase , and if maybe it need to do something to fix damage from the drug and that is whay it is hyperactive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNMT

''

GNMT acts as an enzyme to regulate the ratio of S-adenosylmethionine to S-adenosylhomocysteine (AdoHcy) and participates in the detoxification pathway in liver cells

''

I still wonder if this GNMT enzyme hyperactivation serves as a beneficial thing to the body in accutane users

or

is it just a consequense of the drug causing random erors in the body and so this enztyme hyperactivation dont have any benefit and it unwanted...

This is also from rich about the accutane causing GNMT hyperactivation (result depleted SAMe and folate for sure from what i know til now)

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-block-and-glycine-n-methyltransferase.26042/

''If the mechanism I discussed is going on, you will see low SAMe, high SAH, low glycine and high sarcosine. If you have ME/CFS, you will likely also have low glutathione.''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycine_N-methyltransferase

''

In enzymology, a glycine N-methyltransferase (EC 2.1.1.20) is an enzyme that catalyzes the chemical reaction

 

 

S-adenosyl-L-methionine + glycine S-adenosyl-L-homocysteine + sarcosine

 

Thus, the two substrates of this enzyme are S-adenosyl methionine and glycine, whereas its two products are S-adenosylhomocysteine and sarcosine.

so is if i want GNMT enzyme to keep on working-

eating glycine(gelatine/bone broth) can help that?

SAMe product can help that? can i increase SAMe naturally through food?

getting one of the end products- sacrosine, fom choline?

Maybe i get this all wrong and i need to avoid supporting this enzyme and thus avoid glycine and choline ???

i found this stuy from 2013:

http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4063&context=etd

''oral s adenosyl methionine (SAM) MEDIATES DISTRUPTIONS in methyl group metabolism due to retonic acid therapy and alters neurotransmitter metabolism: implications for major depressive disorder''

 

from someonr who took accutane anf found SAMe helpful:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...h-can-you-pitch-in-on-this.16078/#post-257280

''SAM-e: As soon as i started taking i had massive energy fix, which has lasted - 400mgs a day or 1 tab each of TMG 500mgs & l-methionine 500mgs.''

''

in regard to the end tryingtohelp2014 said

''taking SAMe direct is not advised...fix the deficiency problem first. unless you have the cofactor problem fixed first, taking SAMe could raise homocysteine later. ''

tryingtohelp2014: so do you suggest taking( i couldnt stop the text bolding for some reason in this line. sorry) molybdenum and manganese ?

ahhh this was you! now this makes sense... have you tried Glycine?

The study implies that Glycine N-methyltransferase is increased markedly by isotretinoin usage, and S-adenosyl methionine (SAM) supplementation may be an effective therapy for both the mitigation of retinoic acid-related side effects and the prevention or treatment of major depressive disorder

So in summary it suggests SAM taken alongside isotretinoin may mitigate the side effects occurring, and may also alleviate side effects that are experienced. Definitely the most interesting tane related study Ive read in some time, good find TTH2014

Overall, our study showed numerous undesirable effects of retinoic acid therapy, including depleted hepatic SAM, development of fatty liver, and some modulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. Supplemental SAM appeared to be an excellent conjunctive therapy, preventing or

 

 

 

ahhh this was you! now this makes sense... have you tried Glycine?

wow this is a back to the future. glycine? eating bone broth, but didn't in a long time. good for the health but i don't suspect so much it is the key for shifting back an alterd way the body works post accutane.maybe it is importent but just not the key.

as always, i have to tie it to foxo. i think i posted this here befor too.the study is on a Drosophila bug, not humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24746817

''We showed that Gnmt was elevated in response to Toll activation induced by the local necrosis of wing epidermal cells. Necrosis-driven inflammatory conditions induced dFoxO hyperactivation, leading to an energy-wasting phenotype. Gnmt was cell-autonomously upregulated by dFoxO in the fat body as a possible rheostat for controlling energy loss, which functioned during fasting as well as inflammatory conditions. We propose that the dFoxO-Gnmt axis is essential for the maintenance of organismal SAM metabolism and energy homeostasis.''

 

on the phoenix phorms, someone said that someone tested and had hyper gnmt enzyme 10 years post accutane.

 

soon i will expiriment with sea buckthtorn oil capsules which i ordered (for the cis vaccenic acid for foxo stopping potential and palmitoleic which might help to create more cis-vaccenic once foxo stops(i think)). I'm going to try a ridiculously small amount. like taking just 1 pill and then wait to see what happen for maybe even a full month! in the study i posted here i think they gave a high dose of cis-vaccenic for full days or somethings like that, which decreased foxo.i am afraid of athropy of the enzymes, i just wanna give them a little push and see if they can start operate again, like switiching the on botton just once and not to mess with it to much. maybe it will do something, if not, at list i know i tried my best.

 

 

for me it comes down to detoxification of a metabolite stored in the liver. for whatever reason, some of us just dont conjugate it out like normal. this might be from a UDP polymorphism. if it was an oil, or something that needed a "push", somewhere over the last 20 years, i wouldve eaten it thru a normal diet.

If the GNMT enzyme is upregulated years after, its that way for a reason.... your body is trying to do something , but cant. Did you try Glycine at all? This seems to fit a lot of the symptoms, including whole body inflammation, bile cholestasis etc

http://sweetamine.com/sweetamines-12-day-challenge/

i ordered this and bulk Glycine powder from amazon.

an in depth discussion on GNMT and accutane

http://portal.nifa.usda.gov/web/crisprojectpages/0186642-folate-retinoid-interactions-implications-in-liver-disease.html

 

Always remember: Roche is a special place.

There is a special place in hell for all of them. About the site, cool, personally don't have any experience in webmastering, altough I would happily contribute

What's your solution to curing acne if you don't like the pharma company? I know you are all complaining about the side effects from this drug, but it seems like there's no other solution except either look like total shit for the rest of your life or risk getting the side effects from the medication.

I have no solution to acne Lucas, but it seems you've created quite an ultimatum in your head. A 50/50 coin flip at that. Take Roche's Accutane or don't. You've read this thread and heard some stories. The next play is on you. Make a decision, and flip your coin, but stop pestering us.

It's hard to take in all of the contingencies of mild to moderate acne vs. severe acne and the appropriate treatment. It's very difficult to advocate against and yet still comprehend a drug that the medical industry and the makers themselves know little about (mechanisms of action).

The ball is in your court now kid.

@tryingtohelp2014

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19582817

This injury-related reduction in SAMe promotes hepatocyte proliferation because SAMe inhibits hepatocyte DNA synthesis

@tryingtohelp2014

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19582817

 

 

 

This injury-related reduction in SAMe promotes hepatocyte proliferation because SAMe inhibits hepatocyte DNA synthesis

so our livers are trying to regenerate themselves from what? something is still in there causing this!

 

What's your solution to curing acne if you don't like the pharma company? I know you are all complaining about the side effects from this drug, but it seems like there's no other solution except either look like total shit for the rest of your life or risk getting the side effects from the medication.

Diet.

Acne is virtually non-existent in hunter-gatherer societies where food is eaten right from nature. We on the other hand live in the supermarket age where the majority of food we consume is processed, add to that Western diets are generally shit because our busy lifestyles push us to choose convenient options over healthy ones. Other lifestyle factors likely play a role as well: sleep, stress, emotional well being etc.

Acne isn't something that "just happens" or is "just part of growing up." That is a crock of shit used to excuse our lifestyles and sell acne treatments. It's because of that lie that I went on Accutane. Acne, like many other skin diseases, is an indication that something is wrong internally.

The solution? Be born into a family with money that is health-conscious and feeds you a healthy, well balanced diet starting from a young age. Short of that, become health conscious yourself and adjust your lifestyle accordingly as soon as you are able.

Surely there will still be people that get acne anyway because the human body is so complex that we don't completely understand it yet, but to those I say find a way to manage it as best you can and go on living. I had severe acne before Accutane and I would trade for it back in a heartbeat if I could undo the damage Accutane has done to me.

 

 

What's your solution to curing acne if you don't like the pharma company? I know you are all complaining about the side effects from this drug, but it seems like there's no other solution except either look like total shit for the rest of your life or risk getting the side effects from the medication.

 

Diet.

 

Acne is virtually non-existent in hunter-gatherer societies where food is eaten right from nature. We on the other hand live in the supermarket age where the majority of food we consume is processed, add to that Western diets are generally shit because our busy lifestyles push us to choose convenient options over healthy ones. Other lifestyle factors likely play a role as well: sleep, stress, emotional well being etc.

 

Acne isn't something that "just happens" or is "just part of growing up." That is a crock of shit used to excuse our lifestyles and sell acne treatments. It's because of that lie that I went on Accutane. Acne, like many other skin diseases, is an indication that something is wrong internally.

 

The solution? Be born into a family with money that is health-conscious and feeds you a healthy, well balanced diet starting from a young age. Short of that, become health conscious yourself and adjust your lifestyle accordingly as soon as you are able.

 

Surely there will still be people that get acne anyway because the human body is so complex that we don't completely understand it yet, but to those I say find a way to manage it as best you can and go on living. I had severe acne before Accutane and I would trade for it back in a heartbeat if I could undo the damage Accutane has done to me.

jdav what are your symptoms?

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/11/3392.long

Our findings that both retinoid compounds and glucocorticoids can markedly induce GNMT and alter methyl group/homocysteine metabolism has important implications on a number of fronts. First, these findings contribute to the growing body of reports demonstrating that gluconeogenic hormones and conditions, such as starvation and diabetes, can result in abnormal changes in the metabolism of methyl groups and homocysteine. In the absence of renal dysfunction, diabetes/hyperglucagonemia is associated with a decrease in circulating homocysteine concentrations and an increase in GNMT activity (1418,49). Second, the clear interaction that exists between glucocorticoids and RA to induce GNMT may be an important concern for diabetics who may use retinoid compounds. We have found in preliminary studies that diabetic rats were significantly more sensitive to induction of GNMT by treatment with RA (Rowling, M. J. and Schalinske, K. L., unpublished data). Third, the sensitivity of humans to perturbations in methyl group metabolism as a result of retinoid compounds or a gluconeogenic condition may be highly influenced by the presence of the known polymorphisms that exist for a number of key enzymes that function in folate and methyl group metabolism (e.g., MTHFR). Taken together, these findings have important implications for a large number of individuals who have alterations in carbohydrate, folate or methyl group metabolism. Moreover, it should be noted that the use of clinical retinoid compounds has risen tremendously over the last decade, affecting 800,000 new individuals each year (50).

basically what this is saying is... some of us mighht have a real problem getting rid of this stuff due to a polymorphism.

 

jdav what are your symptoms?

 

Sebhorrheic dermatitis, skin is completely dried up, fatigue, brain fog, food sensitivities, hair thinning & loss, anxiety, depression--are the really bothersome ones. All started appearing roughly 6 months stopping Accutane. My platelet count also comes up low for every blood test I've had since Accutane, this is the only thing doctors have been able to find wrong with me.

 

Do a google scholar search for "platelet count isotretinoin". ...It is one of the observed effects of the drug and something you might want to share with your doctors regarding the possible effects of isotretinoin on your health.

It's great so see that a bunch of people here are atleast getting better with their mental health problems post accutane, but so far I haven't seen very much about people improving their intestinal health. Have I missed some posts here stating there are ways to go to improve you gut's health post accutane?

I'm a bit anxious about developing crohn's disease or UC as I have daily abdominal pain and have lost a bunch of weight.

Also, does anyone in here know if cannabis can have beneficial or negative effects of our post accutane situation?

Edit:spelling

 

 

Also, does anyone in here know if cannabis can have beneficial or negative effects of our post accutane situation?

Didn't you try it? Looking on your view profile I thought it is well known for you : )

Anyway I am going to try it as well.

http://180degreehealth.com/diet-inflammation-part-4/

Whats that got to do with glycine? The answer is remarkably simple: There is only one metabolic pathway that exists in the human body to get rid of excess methionine. That pathwayvia the enzyme glycine-N-methyltransferase (GNMT)uses up glycine in the process.

.....

what if we are caught in this loop with the elevated GNMT enzyme making us chronically deficient in glycine? it would tie into the collagen problem.

Has anyone found a way to cure lethargy/chronic fatigue, etc. caused by the drug?

Sorry, I don't know but I just finished a consultation with a specialist who told me that I should not be avoiding vitamin A in food like i've been doing for years. He said that isotretinoin actually makes people deficient in vitamin A. This probably explains why taking vitamin D makes me feel so much worse, specifically creating chronic inflammation. Has anyone here tried taking vitamin A in the form of retinyl palmitate at a dose of 25,000iu per day? This is the dose that he recommended i take. I'm still a little cautious, but i'm willing to give it a try if someone here has taken it before and felt better.

 

Has anyone found a way to cure lethargy/chronic fatigue, etc. caused by the drug?

 

Sorry, I don't know but I just finished a consultation with a specialist who told me that I should not be avoiding vitamin A in food like i've been doing for years. He said that isotretinoin actually makes people deficient in vitamin A. This probably explains why taking vitamin D makes me feel so much worse, specifically creating chronic inflammation. Has anyone here tried taking vitamin A in the form of retinyl palmitate at a dose of 25,000iu per day? This is the dose that he recommended i take. I'm still a little cautious, but i'm willing to give it a try if someone here has taken it before and felt better.

Did he mention how he came to this conclusion? It is my understanding, that some Isotretionoin side effects resemble the side effects of Vitamin A deficiency e.g. night blindness. But that does not necessarily mean, that you are deficient in Vitamin A. In the case of night blindness for example It has been postulated, that isotretinoin likely binds to the same rod photoreceptors as retinol but does not metabolize to physiologically active rhodopsin.

I tried myself to supplement with Vitamin A but I stopped after some days because I felt terrible. I still think, this is an interesting hypothesis and I would like to understand better what your specialist thinks about it. Can you give some more background information about your conversation with the specialist?

I tried vitamin A and it made me feel very sick ... head aches, insomnia worse and mood low. I stopped that and now avoid all vitamin A. I did note however my sex drive came back on it.