Hey Indigo,

shame about the eyebrows. I thought you might have been cracking a joke when you said your outer third of eyebrows are thinning....

In all seriousness, there seems to be a very close relationship between the thyroid and the adrenals, so one might be causing the other. I think there are studies that shows Accutane affects thyroid activity.

Insertname - I haven't had my Alkaline Phosphatase levels checked, but if anything, I would think mine would be low. I have Rosacea and low Alkaline Phosphatase has been linked with this. I generally agree with you though, I think there is a major link with the gut.

Then again, I've been reading studies that show Accutane causes hypovitamin A i.e a lack of Vitamin A by messing with the receptors. A lot of the symptoms seem to fit. Especially since Vitamin A helps the immune system to protect you from infections/fungus etc which I seem to have a lot of.

Hey guys and girls, I'm another person to add to the list of post-accutane sufferers. I'm really sorry to hear about what you all are going though and have delt with a lot myself over the years. I'll try to keep this short and on topic but I'm sure that will be hard. Ever since accutane (I won't give it enough repect to even capitalize it), I've had bouts of skin dryness and ibs (primarily constipation) among other things.

During accutane, male 125 lbs, 16 yrs old, 5'-7", 3 months at I believe 20 or 40 mgs/day (1990) -

- dry skin on face

- dry and cracked lips

- nasty cold sore on outside of mouth

- anxiety and thoughts of running away

- acne disappeared

Shortly after accutane -

- less oil on face, got major wind burn on High School ski trip

- hair seemed to be drier/coarser

- anxiety and nervousness

- often tired, hard to get out of bed

- frequent urination especially when cold outside (diagnosed possible prostate infection and given antibiotics - looking back I was probably misdiagnosed)

Few more years down the line, 165 lbs -

- constipation followed by diarrhea

- incomplete evacuation (doctor commented that there was fecal matter stuck in anus which is abnormal and recommended increase of fruits and veggies, also to take Cirtrucel daily)

- had a hemmorhoid removed

- teeth enamel erosion (possible grinding while sleeping too)

Another year or two -

- same problem as above so another doctor talked to me about natural ways to manage stress and sent me to get a colonoscopy as there were some small traces of blood in stool but no issues found (looking back, they probably should have checked out my small intestine and stomach but I didn't push the issue)

As the years went on -

- still very rarely had what I would call, good complete bowel movements but I could function at home and work ok

- dry, peeling fingers/palms

- decided to try a product called Colonix which is a colon cleansing program and Toxinout which is a liver detox program (seemed to work really good at first - wow, this is what I remember a normal bowel movement feeling like!)

- the peeling skin went away and I felt much better, lighter, happier

- was convinced fiber was the answer (not so much anymore though)

- developed another hemmorhoid

Continuing on -

- bowel movements were getting too loose with the Colonix fiber and didn't look normal anymore so I went off it and back to eating a typical American diet (shouldn't be on it long anyway)

- decided that eating better might correct my problems (not much change)

- went back to Citrucel which seemed to make movements more frequent and comfortable

2 years ago -

- saw accutane lawsuit commercial (started connecting the dots)

- decided enough was enough and researched every day and night about health/nutrition

- tried gluten-free (not much change)

- went on a primarily raw vegan diet after studying Dr. Brian Clement - veggies and some fruit with a little regular food mixed in (this was an utter disaster, was sick all the time, couldn't get warm, dropped 25 lbs almost instantly, numbness in hands when in sleeping)

- went on a primarily raw fruit diet after studying Dr. Douglas Graham - had better results but still wasn't working out for me (losing weight, not feeling right, low energy)

- frequent urination is back

- dry skin all over body

- had diarrhea or loose stools almost every day for 6 months

- started getting a bunch of red spots on arms, torso, legs (petachae sp?)

- very bad case of dandurff or scalp peeling

- was supplementing at night with a probiotic

- severe tendonitis in right forearm after a long day of yardwork

now (2011) -

- tiredness, lack of motivation, frustration, very emotional - either very high or very low (not much inbetween)

- have a bm every morning but it usually isn't easy and causes me pain throughout the day (especially since I sit at the computer a lot)

- sometimes have colon spasms throughout the day but I know nothing would come out if I went and sat on the toilet

- flakey skin on chin and right side of face (I've tried to elimate using moisturizer but that is making things worse - guess I'll always be dependent upon it)

- very selective and minimal use of daily products like types of soap, shampoo, toothpaste, etc.

- dry, itchy eyes

- stressed but at the same time not (hard to explain)

- losing more hair than usual

- right hand is always much colder than the left

- slight ringing in my ears when I lay down for bed

- down to a scary 130 lbs and having a hard time putting on any weight

- hard to get warm

- trying dairy-free (except for butter)

- frequent urination comes and goes

- went to doctor a year ago but the bloodwork looks fine (I don't think he relateds accutane use to my issues)

- bad joint popping/clicking noises in shoulders, wrists and ankles

- weird touch sensations (some days I can't stand to touch paper I guess due to my finger dryness)

After reading up to page 6 here, I'm really starting to think my gall bladder is either not producing sufficient bile or could be blocked. I think most of my problems are due to constipation. I know my mood is crap when I'm constipated or just had an unpleasant movement. It feels so good to pass gas (weird). I think an excess of fiber (colon cleanse and Citrucel) and by eating more fruits and veggies has just been a band-aid all these years. I've done a lot of research and am starting to feel that good fats and sugars are what moves the bowels. Doctors and corporations aren't always feeding us the best advice so I don't trust what they say anymore. Who knows? I feel like I'm back to square one. Strangely, alcohol with the pals seems to help with the ease of the bm's the next morning.

I do feel that accutane is somehow still in me. I know for a fact that lots of fruit and veggies just are not working for me no matter how much I tend to believe a vegan diet is the right way to go (too much beta-carotene, fiber maybe???). I tried a liver flush with the olive oil and grapefruit juice method and it sure did move my bowels. I did pass what looked like stones but they were not as I could smoosh them days later. I've since read that it's bogus.

You know what? I think I just need a friend now. Someone who can relate to what I'm going through. I basically had it out with my mother over the phone yesterday (I do put a lot of blame on them for me taking accutane). She doesn't get it that all I want to hear is a "I'm sorry, I'm here for you". I just get a lot of 'How were we supposed to know?". I think my Dad gets it. I think he really is sorry he didn't put more thought into the important issues in his kids lives. He was a work-a-holic all those years when I was a teenager. They were both just too trusting then and now. Thank God my wife is so caring and patient with me and fortunately my daughter is still young enough that she doesn't know what's going on. Her lips are always so dry (it scares me to think a bad gene may have passed on). The time I should be spending with her is spent researching all ends of the 'net for a solution or just feeling blah and not doing much anything fun.

Thanks for taking the time to read this! I've read the (60+ page) telomere shortening report by NCC and countless other articles. I followed the trial of James Marshall. I don't know what to believe. I do know that Roche doesn't care enough nor does the FDA. They sure don't want to implicate themselves in this mess. We're here to put our wits together and figure this out on our own it looks like. I hope to be a lot more active here among other places. I'd really like to thank IndigoRush, jmail. Chico and oli girl and others for the knowledge you've posted. Stay strong and hit me up with any questions or observations you may have!

Oh yeah...I'm Mike from Columbus, OH if you've made it this far.

Regarding the taurine idea, I found this information which is interesting:

http://jn.nutrition....2/2256.full.pdf

It's all in very scientific terms, so for people like me it can be tough to understand. But if I am not mistaken it is claiming that the greatest benefit against damage caused to cells by retinol may be protected against with a combination of taurine, zinc, and tocopherol (vitamin e) taken together. Although the article also says the effects were far less when retinoic acid is involved rather than retinol. Confusing stuff, but maybe somebody else can make something more of this info?

I also found claims that taurine binds with retinoic acid in the body to form retinotaurine. This page claims that retinotaurine may be an excretory form of retinoic acid:

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7097369

Does this perhaps mean that taurine is a way to draw retinoic acid from the body into a waste form that is eliminated through bowel movement? Maybe for one with good diet, exercise habits, and not constipated, this is a good way to detox the body from accutane bit by bit?

I have also discovered through research that taurine can boost white blood cell count...even through chemotherapy. WBCs are incredibly important to the immune system and detoxing. Through my recent bloodwork I found that my WBC count, although in range, was at the lower end (5.7 on a scale of 4-11 K/uL). Perhaps another connection here.

Indigo, I know you said you've tried taurine with no results...but perhaps this is something that just takes a long time and works slowly? I'm sure it also depends on diet, exercise, and stress levels as well

Hello...

First of all, welcome 'Informed-1' to the forum.

Sorry to hear of the things you've been through.

It's odd to think you took the drug the year I was born..

I too, have ongoing bowel issues. Chronic constipation is the best way to describe it, but I probably have IBS too.

I've had a hemorrhoid for a couple of months, so it looks like a keeper.

I just wanted to comment on the issue with your parents.

I think you need to understand that the drug had probably zero information available when you took it.

You mustn't feel angry towards your Mum (and/or Dad) because they couldn't of had any idea that an acne drug could do all of this.

Nobody would suspect it.

The only people to blame are Roche/The FDA (and medicine in general, perhaps).

Like I said, I'm trying not to get too caught up in this right now.

I'm doing the best I can in terms of supporting my body, so I need to realise certain things aren't in my control.

Reading a comment like yours brings back my feelings of anger and frustration.

Knowing you took the drug over 20 years ago, and you still have problems ... That makes me feel a bit fearful.

However, I think it's important to take each day as it comes.

In another 20 years, some clever cloggs' may have looked into this and realised a way to recover.

It could even be someone in this forum.

We just don't know.

It can be overwhelming to look at things in the grand scheme.

If you think about each side effect, you're chasing something that cannot be caught.

I believe our immune system is in bad condition.

Chico may be right about bile-flow, but I'm still confused about what's causing the bowel problems.

It could be inflammation, caused by foods we've become sensitive to.

I'm still pretty sure Accutane is in our bodies though.

http://www.how-to-bo...une-system.com/

The link above may be useful. I think if our immune system is improved, we can recover from most of these effects.

I'm still fitting in healing codes each day, because I want to give it a fair trial.

People claim to have cured cancer and other in-curable diseases.

The author makes some bold claims, but I believe he is a genuinely nice chap.

Has anybody read The Healing Code since I mentioned it? I think it's worth checking out.

The last few days, I've been feeling a bit better.

I still wake up feeling like shit (tired) and still get daily reminders that my body isn't working right (when I need the loo/ during sex - can't feel much) but I try to let it just happen. I could easily get stressed about it, but I understand that's only going to make things worse. I've been playing xbox (MW3) the last few days, and though that's not very productive (in terms of me needing to go and get a job) it's helped me to enjoy life again.

That may sound very basic, and I guess it is, but I think we really need to have fun again.

I've tried my best to 'beat' Roche. I've written a book to spread the word about them and it's so far sold 3 copies. Whether or not it'll pick up at some point, I'm not sure.

But I'm not going to spend the rest of my life sitting around and feeling sorry for myself.

If you're weak, the world will kick you down some more.

Shit happens in this world. I avoid the news, but had a look in a paper the other day and it was about some bastard who'd been caught after raping/killing at least 3 young children. One of them was five! What a sick fucker. Yet, it happens in every day life. You could look at our situation in that perspective and think 'Okay, we could have it worse'. Imagine being the parent of one of those kids.

I still worry about my hair, because I have a few greys and it's thin at the sides, but you have to be strong about this. Stress could have caused the grey hairs, and that most likely is the cause. Some people might say Accutane mutated a gene... Hell, they could be right, but you must admit we have been stressing more than the average chuck or larry.

It's hard to like yourself sometimes, when you look in the mirror and see a pair or red eyes and rubbish hair, but you need to realise you're a fantastic person. We're coping better than we may believe. Yes, I'm unemployed and other areas of my life aren't going brilliantly, but Hey - I've not given up. It's quite funny to think I was on 50 a day, and now I earn nothing. 50 a day would really help me out. When I get a job, I'm going to fit in regular massages. An hour of de-stressing sounds like bliss. When my eyebrows have returned (probably 3 weeks), I'm going to do weekly sport (Badminton/Table Tennis) with my girlfriend. I don't want to hide away in my room all day, every day. It's nice sometimes, but life exists outside my window. I will continue to learn about this whole thing of course, and will keep aiding my body. I think we can do all the right things, in terms of eating/exercise, but if we're still getting stressed a lot, we won't recover.

Hopefully this helps.

I'm sure I'm due for a down day soon, because this is by no means easy to keep up, but I'm not going to get my hopes up anymore.

When I get stressed, it's mainly because I want a cure right now.

That's just not a reasonable thing to expect, so I must remember this.

At least I can still go for a walk with my two legs.

At least I can still see a beautiful summer's day (Well, sometimes.. I live in England).

At least I can still hear the sound of an Ocean and the beauty of a song.

Things could be a lot worse guys.

I'm planning on reading 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle (see the reviews on Amazon!)

I bought it ages ago and never really got into it.

Conquering our minds is half the battle.

Have the best day you can amigos.

Stefan

P.S. Insertname, I will continue to take Taurine, but I don't really expect one amino acid to be the cure for all of this. I really want to be pooping right before anything else as, like you said, this would really help things move along.

Hey Mike/informed - Glad to have you along, but sorry you have to be here. Sounds like you have had a bit of a rough ride these past years. I'm sure many can relate to your problems. It seems like you are pretty open about natural/holistic treatments, which can only be a good thing. Your experience is welcomed here, I don't think anyone is close to the amount of time you have been dealing with these effects so I'm sure you can bring some good knowledge.

Indigo - Sounds like you are doing a lot better man. I haven't read The Power of Now, but I have heard good things about it. I have read The Road Less Travelled by Scott Peck and it was pretty good. I'm planning on getting The Alchemist for xmas too, which is also highly recommended.

Insertname - I've been taking Taurine since Saturday now, I've already been taking Zinc for a good while. I obviously haven't felt anything yet but I will let you know. I'm mainly taking it to see if it improves my hair but I'll keep an eye out for any other benefits, I've read that it is great for acne at least, which is good since I still get it. I'm at 1000mg a day but I might bump it up to 2000mg after a month or so.

1000mg of zinc per day?! That is WAY too much.

50mg is a much safer dose, which won't cause copper depletion (and therefore iron) and is enough to make noticeable difference in things such as breakouts. Do NOT take more than 50-100mg per day of zinc!!!

1000mg of Taurine. Only at 15-30mg for Zinc.

Oh phew. You scared me there.

Then again I don't think it would even be possible to take 1000mg without becoming poisoned/very ill almost immediately. Anyways. Glad to hear you are only taking reasonable levels of zinc lol. Taurine I know nothing about.

Lol... I too was about to say that's a crazy amount of Zinc.

Milano, I've heard of both the books you mention. They're meant to be really good.

Another one worth mentioning is called 'Man's search for Meaning', which is by Victor Frankl.

I think I buy the two you said, though I do have A LOT of different books to get through already.

The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success is one I got through the post today.

Ciao for now

Hi Stefan - Man, thanks for taking the time to comment! You have a lot of great things to say. You're pretty funny too but I'm sure you've heard that many times. I too have a very funny/sarcastic side but have lost that lately and that is what scares me the most. I've really withdrawn over the past year doing all this research about accutane and trying to figure out how to get over my bowel issues. I don't want to scare you in thinking that you'll have to deal with any issues as long as I have. I've done plenty wrong over the years and am just hoping someone here many have a new suggestion or can connect some dots I haven't.

I knew the blow-up with my Mom was coming. It was almost like I couldn't hold back all the pent-up frustration I've had with her anymore. In the grand scheme of things, it's not her fault. I just wish as I wish so many people in the world would just think a bit more before they make the decisions they do. I am coming to realize that emotions really drive people to do some unexplainable things. There is definitely a lot more info available now about accutane especially from those trying to convince others not to take it but it was considered a very dangerous drug back when I took it too. At that time though all the info was coming from the doctors and roche. There were groups petitioning it (especially the one's who knew about the birth defect link) too but that info didn't really get out very far. Unfortunately important info was held back from the FDA. I've stumbled upon lots of things while doing my scouring of the 'net that just make me boil inside! I'm sure once I get back to feeling better I'll apologize to her and explain myself better to them both.

I really think that I have caused a lot of this harm to come upon myself here over the past couple years. No doubt I have more difficulty than the average person when it comes to having a bowel movement. Thinking about the way I've eaten and such I am starting to realize that I may have cut too much fat out of my diet. I rarely ever go into the bathroom sure that something is going to come out. I mean I get these sensations but never a feeling like - omg, you need to go now. Well after reading this thread yesterday morning I decided to swallow down a tablespoon of xtra virgin olive oil. Last night shortly after dinner for the first time in a long time, I got that feeling like one is coming out no matter what. The feeling came from deeper within, more from my stomach/midsection than my butt which is where the spasms normally originate from that make me 'think' I need to move my bowels. I'm wondering if I have been listening to the wrong signals for a good while now? When I first started working as a plumber I was always eating fast food for lunch. I remember having a good sized bm afterwards without any drama. I sure don't want to go back to eating fast food but maybe something like that once in a while just to give the system a kick. At least I feel like I'm onto something again which is nice.

Stress for me is at an all-time high right now. I have probably exhausted my adrenals to the point where my body is just keeping me alive. I read a passage the other day where Spike Jonez (director) said sitting down to a book in an old library always would bring on a good bm. It's amazing how stress can affect us. I've always been a pretty jumpy person. I think a lot of it has to do with my strict upbringing. I never really felt like part of the family, I just felt like I was there and had to make sure I did things right. I see families/relationships where there is a lot of talking about feelings and needs and am jealous. That is one reason there is this disconnect between me and my Mom. She's always like "how's the weather?" or "what are you guys doing for Thanksgiving?". General bs to me I guess. I think about the great plastic garbage dump floating out in the Pacific Ocean and the poor animals who are dying from ingesting that crap and stuff like that. I think about change as being a necessity where she says people don't change. I just feel like she lives in her little box oblivious to the things really going on around her.

Well, that's enough for now. I'm gonna increase the fat intake a bit, try to listen to my body more and try to not be so stressed out. Take care and I'll let you know how that goes!

Hi Milano - Thanks for the kind words! I do know accutane wacked me out but am hopeful that there are things I/we all can do to repair the damage. I do know that a primarily raw vegan or fruitarian diet just doesn't work for me. I came across some info lately that stated humans would have never been able to migrate from the warm climates if it weren't for eating things we probably weren't designed to eat. I was no where eating enough by the fast drop in weight I experienced. I really am starting to think that my digestive system needs to get functioning properly and I have to chill out a bit to let my body do it's work. I might eventually give the Taurine a shot if it seems to work for you guys.

Hi guys. Wow.

First, let me explain how I found you.

I took Accutane 8 years ago. My health steadily declined, until I was non-functional. The major symptoms were IBS and chronic fatigue.

I never gave up. I kept self-experimenting. And I found a solution - a diet that eliminated my symptoms and returned me to full health and vigor, better than I'd ever been before.

However, my attempts to expand the diet in any way failed. And that didn't make sense. Why was I so limited? I was more limited than anyone else I could find on the internet, who didn't have some condition that required hospitalization or surgery.

Then I found out about Accutane and connected all the dots. Those bastards.

Now it became clear that it was very likely that I could NEVER expand my diet beyond the four ingredients. And perhaps further degeneration might occur, permanently crippling me. Unacceptable.

Not to mention, a diet composed of only 4 ingredients is pretty boring.

So I decided to research whether anyone had found a way to REVERSE permanent Accutane damage. That Google search brought me here.

I have learned a TON from reading this thread in its entirety. I have a much clearer idea of the potential mechanisms by which Accutane causes damage, and I have many theories and fixes to attempt. Thanks for that.

----------

Now, here's the next part.

What I do NOT see on this thread is much in the way of success. Instead, I see people getting ground down to the point of absolute failure, in a way I'm ALL TOO FAMILIAR WITH.

I feel your pain, and I'm shocked by how IDENTICAL the stories are with my own. Maybe not all the symptoms, but the trend and its impacts. Finally, I have found the correct group for me. Ironically, I found it after I already went into full remission.

But it's good I didn't find this group earlier. It would've just been more false trails for me to lose time following.

It is my totally unsupported intuitive hunch that this focus on supplementation and liver mechanics is wrong. I think you are all putting the cart before the horse.

The one thing I have learned from YEARS of self-experimentation is that EVERYTHING IS WRONG. The ONLY reliable information is the result of personal experimentation. No model exists that correctly describes my condition.

And as I mentioned, now I finally know why - the cause is Accutane, and NOBODY has the cure.

So, I am going to offer the paradigm that enables me to live symptom free. I believe it is a fair exchange for the knowledge offered here, which offers the potential for a partial repair of Accutane damage (which would enable me to eat a wider diet).

Perhaps if we put our heads together and keep experimenting, we can somehow combine, synthesize and improve what we've got to find a full-spectrum cure.

-------------

OK, here's my diet.

I won't waste time telling you everything I tried that didn't work. I'll just give you the solution.

Here are the dietary objectives:

1. Zero fat.

2. Zero insoluble fiber (eliminates vegetables and nuts)

3. Zero sugar (eliminates fruit)

4. Zero auto-immune food triggers of any kind

5. Zero IBS triggers (eliminates spices, sauces, alcohol, vinegar, etc.)

6. Zero industrial pollutants (no processed foods, no grain fed meat, etc.)

7. No burning or browning (difficult to digest)

8. Lots of carbs for calories and satiety

9. Lots of protein

10. Huge doses of micronutrients, especially minerals

11. Sufficient variety and flavor to prevent cheating or depression or weight loss

12. Easy to prepare

13. Reasonably cheap

14. Travel-friendly

Here's the 4 ingredient diet:

1. White rice

2. Shrimp

3. Scallops

4. Super-lean fish (e.g. tuna. If it tastes good by itself, it's too fatty)

Here are the preparation instructions:

1. Get a large cooking pot and a stove

2. Add 1/2-3/4 inch of white rice to bottom of bowl

3. Add water to 1-2 inches above rice

4. Add frozen shrimp, scallops and/or fish (must eat scallops minimum 1x daily)

5. Cook on high heat until done. Rice should be of risotto consistency.

6. Eat hot. Refrigerate leftovers immediately. Eat later cold.

For travel:

1. Order white rice from a restaurant.

2. Buy canned springwater tuna at a grocery store.

3. Combine and eat.

Neither eat nor drink anything other than the ingredients listed above, except water.

You cannot even drink tea, as it contains caffeine.

----------

The advantages of this diet:

White rice - it is the least allergenic starch. It's used to create hypoallergenic pill casings, for example. It is the only starch I can tolerate - I can't even eat potatoes.

Scallops - they are nature's multivitamin. They are mineral packed. Most meats are nutrient depleted because the grain the animals are fed is nutrient depleted, because fields are fertilized and overfarmed instead of lying fallow as nature intended. Scallops grow at the ocean floor and absorb minerals by filtering ocean water, which is inexhaustible.

Shrimp - for flavor and texture. Extremely low fat. Low toxin content because of short lifecycle and low on food chain.

Low fat fish - for adding body to the meal. Scallops by themselves are pretty unappetizing, and adding shrimp doesn't fully solve the problem. Helps you to get sufficient protein intake. Adds a tiny amount of fat, highly diluted.

This diet results in a supercharged brain and body, naturally elevated mood, weight maintenance (I haven't tried it for weight lifting yet), and high athletic performance.

The difference between this diet and EVERY OTHER DIET permutation I tried is night and day. It is literally the difference between being functional and not. I have spent many years in a non-functional state. I do not exaggerate.

---------

Dietary disagreements -

After reading this thread, it's quite clear to me that I have a gall bladder issue which prevents me from digesting fat. Coconut oil was recommended as a solution to this problem.

I've tried coconut oil and reacted violently to it. In general, I cannot eat any fruit or vegetable.

Therefore I do not recommend or endorse the vegan raw vegetable approach of the very intelligent commenter Chico, although I appreciate his explanation of liver pathways.

I think that in a state of auto-immune compromization, eating vegetables is asking for trouble, since plant toxins are designed to mess with animal bodies to prevent said plants from being consumed.

I do want to fix my gallbladder issue, but I will have to approach the issue carefully, because 99% of the time any change I attempt fails and takes me out of commission for a week.

---------

The burning question I have now is - CAN this diet work as well for others as it has for me?

I would like nothing more than for my YEARS of work (blindly, in the dark, with no clue as to the real problem) might suddenly turn around the lives of a few people here cyclically struggling with suicidal thoughts.

Believe me, I understand the attraction. If I were at the end of my life instead of the beginning, I would have had far less interest in an 8-year struggle against an unknown foe.

I hope someone else will try this.

This is the first Accutane thread I've read, and I WILL be reading everything I can get my hands on. But so far it appears that it's extremely rare for fatigue-spectrum Accutane sufferers to achieve complete symptom remission WITHOUT repairing the underlying damage. So perhaps I have something valuable here.

Just remember to eat it hot. Or cold, after it's marinated. Inbetween it's kind of gross. (But way better than plain scallops and rice... ugh.)

This is a radical diet. But you people know what's at stake, same as me.

By the way, if anyone has suggestions for further reading, I'd be much obliged.

I'll just be sitting here, shaking my monitor, trying to make a reply pop out faster

----------

Ok, I'm back after a ton more reading.

Here's how I would analyze my case, based on my current understanding:

Accutane works by spiking toxic levels of Vitamin A that somehow strip telomerase, causing early senescence of fast-replicating cells, which include epithelial and mucosal cells. This telomere depletion effect can be permanent.

I am therefore suffering from a damaged intestinal mucosal lining, plus my liver has completely ceased to produce bile as a result of vitamin A toxicity, possibly caused by persistent Accutane remaining in my body.

An additional vector may be the inhibition of 5alpha-reductase (5AR). 5AR is what converts the hormone testosterone to the more potent 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). This is suggested by the common symptom profile with Propecia.

The intestinal damage may additionally have resulted in parasitic or bacterial overgrowth, and development of food allergies.

So here are the potential lines of attack:

1. Eliminate persistent Accutane from the body

2. Restore cellular telomerase

3. Restore liver bile production

4. Fix 5AR inhibition, if present

5. Kill off harmful intestinal colonizations

6. Reverse food allergies or sensitivities

7. Get comprehensive battery of testing for additional problems

8. Pursue comprehensive health improvement strategies to compensate for systemic weakening.

Of course I already have a healthy baseline thanks to the diet, this is all for damage reversal.

What do you guys think about these 8? Strategies, thoughts? I'm gonna have to go deep into biochem here, but I'm willing. This is frontier territory.

I'm sorry, because I know you're only trying to help, but what a load of crap!

That's just not feesible or logical.

What the fuck's for breakfast?!? Shrimp?

Nobody in here is going to try that.

Hey Joseph,

glad you found a diet that helps you. It does sound incredibly strict, and I would wonder if your getting all your required vitamins/nutrients. But if it works for you, good luck to you, and I hope you can expand on it at some point.

As for the steps you pointed out:

1. I guess if Accutane is still the body, you would need to make sure your detoxification and elimination pathways are working correctly. Obviously that means a focus on the gut and liver. I guess we have talked about increasing bile production already e.g taurine, bitters, coconut oil, lemon etc . Lecithin is also said to help removed fat-soluble toxins.

2. I'm not aware of what we can do for this.

3. See 1.

4.Generally the liver/adrenals are responsible for hormonal aspects. It is probably better to focus on getting them working optimally than trying to influence specific hormones. Hormone relationships seem to be one of the most complicated systems.

5. Following a diet that does not promote these is a good start (I guess yours is good in this aspect). Specific supplements could then be used to help the process e.g Garlic/Coconut Oil/Olive Leaf/Niacidamide/Pau D'Arco etc

6.Diet should be primary when fixing the gut. Vitamin D/Glutamine/Probiotics/Gelatin can help afterwards

7. This would help pinpoint any specific problems with adrenals/thyroid . Accutane side effect sufferers don't seem to generally get much from them though, especially when testing for auto-immune like markers. If I had the money though, I would get everything tested possible - vitamin/minerals - hormones - organ specific defencies etc.

8. I guess thats what a lot of people here are focusing on, especially Indigo. Exercise, mindfulness de-stressing etc can only help.

Those I just my thoughts anyway.

hey guys,

take a look at these two links , my herbalist passed to me

http://educate-yourself.org/cancer/benefitsofhydrogenperozide17jul03.shtml

[Removed]

[Removed]

its very exciting,

tell me what your toughts are,

thanks

On 11/21/2011 at 7:38 AM, Sergiorezende said:

hey guys,

take a look at these two links , my herbalist passed to me

http://educate-yours...de17jul03.shtml

[Removed]

[Removed]

its very exciting,

tell me what your toughts are,

thanks

I didn't have time yet too view theese videos, but Kevin T. has spoken about Accutane on his radio show and Nathan's theroy regarding telemeres.......He has some books also.

Hope everyone is doing well

Lol, no, I'm not nuts. I have Accutane poisoning. I would expect this to be the one place where everyone would understand a willingness to try any cure no matter how crazy.

And this is HARDLY the toughest diet I've tried.

I've eaten nothing but bread for a week. I've eaten nothing but lean meat for a month. I've eaten nothing but rice and scallops for weeks (blaagghghgh). And a million other failed attempts I can't even remember right now.

Breakfast, lunch, dinner, it's always the same - hot stew of rice with lean fish, scallops and shrimp.

It's better than it sounds. It's tasty enough that you can eat it for the rest of your life if necessary. I've tried lots of diets that weren't sustainable, so I know where the limits are.

The main thing, though, is SYMPTOM REMISSION. 100%. That's why I do it.

And keep in mind, I found this solution without having ANY IDEA that Accutane was the problem. I just knew my life was failing and I had only one option - adapt or die.

----

To answer Milano's question, I have a lot of experience with diets that don't provide enough essential nutrients. This one does.

It's easy to tell if a diet can't sustain life. It may seem great over the first few days, but you will then gradually start "leaking" energy and focus over weeks. You will start eating much more or much less, and thoughts of cheating will begin to overwhelm your willpower, as your body generates cravings for missing nutrients in an effort to survive. Plus your libido will drop.

On the other hand, if you get healthier and stronger every day, and cheating urges remain small and rare, and you have high energy and mood, and your weight is healthy, and you're able to maintain or build muscle, and your libido is high, then the diet provides all essential nutrients.

I've gone on suboptimal diets lots of times, and there's no permanent damage. You just binge and recover. But yeah, veggies aren't necessary for vitamins - I haven't eaten one in 6 months, and have generally avoided them for years now. If humans required vegetables for vitamins, all the Eskimos would be dead.

As far as my specific diet, each ingredient does different things.

1. Scallops - the most important. See here and here. Shellfish deliver all necessary micronutrients.

2. Rice - Lean meat isn't enough to survive - you'll get protein poisoning. You can either fulfill your caloric requirements from fat or carbs. Since my bile production is impaired by Accutane liver damage, I can't digest fat. Therefore I have to get my calories from carbs. Rice is a hypoallergenic carb. This is important because the damage to my intestinal mucosal lining done by Accutane increases intestinal permeability, causing plant toxins to easily cross over into the bloodstream and cause inflammation. Post Accutane, I cannot eat corn or potato or wheat or other grains.

3. Shrimp and fish - Food reward is a tremendously important component of any diet. Shrimp adds a crunchy texture and and unique flavor, while fish adds a softer texture and bulk palatable protein to the dish.

Humans ARE designed to be capable of eating quite monotonically, as long as our senses inform us that the meal is adequate to sustain life. Otherwise, the mind and body begin rebelling against the diet, making cheating inevitable. Eat this meal hot, and it has enough variety of flavors to keep you engaged. Eat it cold and marinated, and it has a unique umami flavor from the shellfish that renders it delicious.

I have had no problems with either cheating or weight loss on this diet, as opposed to other diets which were unsustainable or caused me to lose interest in eating.

As far as general micronutrients, this meal will provide far more micronutrients than you would get from plant sources, because animal sources are far more bioavailable.

------

Thanks Milano for going through the 8 points.

I read somewhere that garlic has Vitamin A, and should be avoided by us. And of course I can't digest fat, so coconut is out. I agree about your diet first philosophy. I also agree about the ineffectiveness of testing, although finding just a few broken markers can be quite useful.

Anyway, that's what I posted for - just to get a sense of what's out there. I have copious notes from this entire thread and also the rags forum and curezone site. So I have a lot of action points to try.

-----

It sounds like I need to make a Youtube video of this diet, what the dish looks like, and how my health is.

Maybe my girlfriend can join in and explain how she's had to take care of my comatose ass for years due to this Accutane thing.

Yeah, anyway it takes about a week for full intestinal transit and toxins to cycle out, so if you want to try this diet, budget a week for it. You should START seeing results after 1-3 days, but that depends on what's already in your system queue.

For example, if I eat something like sugar, I will experience an energy double dip - one big dip 1-2 days after eating, and another big dip in the 2 day period surrounding excretion. How long the entire cycle lasts depends on intestinal transit speed, which is determined by the overall severity of irritants consumed.

So yeah, budget a week.

Oh yeah, the other cool thing about this diet - you can naturally fast for long periods, eat once per day, etc, because unlike most modern diets it fully satisfies all your micronutrient needs (with the scallops), thus eliminating cravings.

Much of the reason modern people "need" to eat so frequently is due to negative cycles caused by sugar, wheat, processed food and micronutrient deficiency.

Joseph, you need to see a doctor. You've only had 3 posts on this website and they are extremely alarming. The term "Accutane Poisoning" isn't something you should throw around so easily without being medically proven, that's the kind of stuff that gives accutane a worse name than it already has. Not being able to digest fat and being "Non-Functional" years after taking accutane isn't common... hell it's not even rare, it's unheard of. I wouldn't rely on Google to save your life. I know this comment sounds harsh, but I think you have a much bigger problem than after effects of accutane.

Hey buddy, let me throw it around a bit more for you: Accutane Poisoning. Accutane Poisoning. Accutane Poisoning. Accutane Poisoning. Accutane Poisoning. Accutane Poisoning.

Go check out the rag forum and curezone. It's plenty common. I'm ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES. No colonectomy or chemical castration, thank God.

It's a chemotherapy drug that shortens telomere length of rapidly dividing cells, causing early senescence. That's its INTENDED FUNCTION, FFS.

If I knew that back then, I never would have taken it. Premature aging of select organs? (Yes the skin is an organ.) No thank you.

I thought it was basically like a big dose of vitamin E to dry out my skin. Vitamins are good right? I had no clue.

I just enjoyed a completely relaxed morning on my balcony, at 100% health and mood, ocean breeze ruffling my hair, and a cold meal of seafood and rice. Or, I could be half-dead, covered in acne, stressed beyond belief, depressed and emotionally dead - if I'd eaten something different this week.

Google didn't save my life; self-experimentation did.

That's another thing: Accutane didn't get rid of my acne, or even dent it. But this diet completely eliminates it.

And who knows what this kind of epigenetic change is going to do to my life expectancy. Telomeres are key to aging. I certainly don't think we have enough data to know whether it's going to produce early shutdown of affected cells. Boy does that not sound fun. Hence my strong interest in damage reversal, even though I'm currently symptom-free.

In general, any drug or chemical that permanently affects the body needs to be treated VERY carefully.

Anyway, now that I've calmed down a bit, I can see your good intentions. Yes, I'm going to see a doctor, although I don't expect them to be particularly useful, as they generally don't have clue 1 on these matters. Nevertheless, an extensive battery of tests is in order, to ascertain the extent of the damage, to the degree that it will show up on presently available tests.

On 11/21/2011 at 7:38 AM, Sergiorezende said:

hey guys,

take a look at these two links , my herbalist passed to me

http://educate-yours...de17jul03.shtml

[Removed]

[Removed]

its very exciting,

tell me what your toughts are,

thanks

Bloody hell, he gets worked up at the end.

I've just taken a look though and find it a bit over-promising.

I've seen this kind of thing before.

It may work, but I won't be the first to throw my money at it.

Hi guys

Indigo - Read the book and reviewed it on Amazon

About the stuff Sergio posted, I have similar thoughts to Indigo. I don't like the DIY nature of making it, and the wording of some of the links has a heavy marketing feel to it. I read towards the end of one of the links where it hinted it was similar to the little water oxygen bottles that you can buy online where you add drops of it in water. I've tried this and it made me feel worse so I stopped taking it. I have read that people can feel the difference, but not me, at least not in a good way!

Joseph - I would try anything to get rid of the Accutane side effects! Thing is, I haven't eaten any meat for 6 years, and instead eat fruits, lots of vegetables and seeds, so it would be a complete u-turn in diet, and that is quite scary. I sound a bit like you, in the sense that one seemingly innocent food can be a complete energy zapper and make me feel awful. The food I eat nowadays is very selective to avoid this. For example, I had pasta earlier this year, it was wheat and gluten free, and had a pasta sauce with it, which had clean enough ingredients. Anyway I developed cold/flu like symptoms immiedately after eating it which last for days where all I felt lke doing was just laying down till I got over it. This is how mesed up my body has become. I don't know what ingredient from this meal made me feel like this, but it may of even been the rice., but I can't say for sure. I'm not even sure rice was made in the pasta as I no longer have the packaging, but I know some do for wheat free pasta. This is why I worry if what works for you will not work for everyone. Maybe you have just 4 foods that you are not allergic to, and this is why you are symptom free? And by having only 4 foods, you are eliminating any foods that your body doesn't like?

The other thing I have with this, if you are eating meat you'll be eating preformed Vitamin A. A few months ago I took tiny doses of preformed Vitamin A from Eniva Vibe and I'm still feeling the effects. Because of this I'm not willing to be the firs tot try this diet, I would need someone else to prove it works.

You should go into more detail about what you can do now, like how much strength, stamin and endurance do you have in terms of exercise. Do you feel like you are able to "build" your body back up? I just feel my body is getting weaker and weaker, like it's not possible for it to build or get stronger anymore.

I just want an end to this now.... My health has gone downhill badly because of this drug and I'm just struggling to cope. This is like a bad nightmare I can't wake up from... and this is my life.... I heard someone yesturday have a joke at my expense because of my limitations now because of what the drug has done to me (i wasn't in the room - but overheard) and although it may be innocent to them, it really hurts.... because i can't help any of this...

Gators Fan - You worry that people are giving Accutane a worse name than it already has? Let me tell you something - there are NO limits to worsen Accutane's name. A lot of people here have said they have problems with digesting fat, and many agree with Chico that possibly an impaired bile flow may be why. But whatever the reason why, Accutane is the cause 100%.

Welcome back, Jimmy boy!

Thanks for reading the book. I spotted the review the other day, but didn't know it was you.

After all this time you spelt my name wrong! Everyone does that. Stefan, not Stephan

I'd hate to think what Joe's shopping basket looks like though.

I just couldn't stick to four foods for the rest of my life.. especially not those four.

I'm still actively trying to be happy, but have struggled to keep up the act these last couple of days.

I've got a sore throat right now, and I feel SOOOO tired when I wake up.

I'm applying for jobs (that I don't particularly want, but need for the sake of survival/money) and fear that I'll really struggle to get moving in the morning.

I haven't really done much for the adrenal fatigue since getting my test results.

I add a bit of salt to my food, which is advised. I've been focusing on other things (such as playing video games) and trying to reduce stress. It's just hard to feel motivated to do anything right now. I'm still using the rebounder nearly every day, and I'm still doing the healing code. Of course, I have nothing to report because this comment would be much more excitable if that was the case. I'll carry on for a while longer with it though.

I've nearly finished 'Stress Buster', the book I mentioned.

It's as good as it can be.

It described stress well.

We need to find a suitable way of getting rid of stress from our bodies, because we are stressed.

That we can't deny.

We may feel more able to cope on certain days, but we have so much riding on a cure for these side effects that it's difficult to feel at peace.

Therefore, a lot of the time our bodies are in 'flight-or-fight' mode.

When this happens, our body waits for us to run or fight.

So, by fitting in exercise regularly, it can overcome the flow of stress hormones.

I know, we may feel tired but I'm not saying we should run a marathon.

Just start slow.

When you feel really stressed, take a walk. A long one.

The rebounder (though making me feel a bit dizzy) seems to help my mood.

Perhaps walking my puppy helps too.

I shift my focus on to her.

She's enjoying the fuck out of her life, and she's too fucking sweet not to put a smile on my face.

Even if she does bite me.

The immune system will have real problems recovering with stress still going on though, so like I said before - We need to enjoy life again.

This forum can really force your focus onto this.

I know it's hard not to think about this whole thing for a minute, let alone a day, but we need to enjoy ourselves or we might as well be dead.

Life surely means we're meant to be alive.

Though some things aren't clearly in our control, others are.

I refuse to let this get the best of me.

Even when I feel like shit, I am determined to get up and fight.

In an ideal world, I'd have a fuck load of money and I could put us all in one location to make a documentary about all this.

Or, we could all go to an Island and pretend everyone lives like this... haha.

Like a depressing version of LOST.

I better go feed my doggy and take her for a walk.

Then it's time for a cup of Reishi Mushroom Extract tea and some jumping on the rebounder.

I just hope it's getting me in a better state.

Maybe it's too early for me to tell.

Love and peace.

Hey Jmsil,

Well Indigo's dead set against it, so if you don't try it first I don't know who will. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

I don't think vegetarianism is a healthy choice, period. I'm sure you disagree because you are one. Why did you become vegetarian?

Anyway, I literally can't digest fructose (fruit sugar) or vegetable fiber or even seeds (fat), so that's not an option for me.

"I sound a bit like you, in the sense that one seemingly innocent food can be a complete energy zapper and make me feel awful."

Yes, this is a classic inflammation response to food.

"The food I eat nowadays is very selective to avoid this. For example, I had pasta earlier this year, it was wheat and gluten free, and had a pasta sauce with it, which had clean enough ingredients. Anyway I developed cold/flu like symptoms immiedately after eating it which last for days where all I felt lke doing was just laying down till I got over it. This is how mesed up my body has become. I don't know what ingredient from this meal made me feel like this, but it may of even been the rice., but I can't say for sure. I'm not even sure rice was made in the pasta as I no longer have the packaging, but I know some do for wheat free pasta."

My best guess would be it was the tomato, which is acidic. Lowered bile production makes acidic foods a problem - another reason to avoid fruits.

"This is why I worry if what works for you will not work for everyone. Maybe you have just 4 foods that you are not allergic to, and this is why you are symptom free? And by having only 4 foods, you are eliminating any foods that your body doesn't like?"

Yes, that's basically it. Unless you have a specific shellfish or rice allergy, these foods are very low allergy for the vast majority of the population. It's not as if it's idiosyncratic to me.

"The other thing I have with this, if you are eating meat you'll be eating preformed Vitamin A. A few months ago I took tiny doses of preformed Vitamin A from Eniva Vibe and I'm still feeling the effects. Because of this I'm not willing to be the firs tot try this diet, I would need someone else to prove it works."

I don't seem to have a problem with preformed vitamin A from meat. I have noticed what MAY have been a vitamin A reaction from vegetables. As you know, vegetable and animal vitamin A sources are completely different. Vegetable vit-A is called beta carotene and must be converted by the body, if I recall correctly.

"You should go into more detail about what you can do now, like how much strength, stamin and endurance do you have in terms of exercise. Do you feel like you are able to "build" your body back up? I just feel my body is getting weaker and weaker, like it's not possible for it to build or get stronger anymore."

Well, I can play 2 hour soccer games without substitution, and bang my girlfriend as long as I want [Edited link out]

I haven't done any weightlifting or even pushups for years, but I've got a natural musculature. I'll post a pic. lol.

"I just want an end to this now.... My health has gone downhill badly because of this drug and I'm just struggling to cope. This is like a bad nightmare I can't wake up from... and this is my life.... I heard someone yesturday have a joke at my expense because of my limitations now because of what the drug has done to me (i wasn't in the room - but overheard) and although it may be innocent to them, it really hurts.... because i can't help any of this..."

Yes. I know the feeling. I think your slow decline isn't just due to the drug, but also vegetarianism (low energy) and continuing to eat foods that irritate your system and cause inflammation.

"Gators Fan - You worry that people are giving Accutane a worse name than it already has? Let me tell you something - there are NO limits to worsen Accutane's name. A lot of people here have said they have problems with digesting fat, and many agree with Chico that possibly an impaired bile flow may be why. But whatever the reason why, Accutane is the cause 100%. "

Yes. I just had a perfect dump - zero pain or urgency, totally solid (great improvement for a former chronic IBS sufferer.) Since I'd just found out about Accutane and bile flow, and that the color of your stool can tell you whether you have a bile problem, I looked at the color. It was light light yellow, to the point of nearing white. If what I read is correct, then that can only mean that I'm not producing bile.

Ok, here are the pics. I'm actually a bit smaller than usual, because I just finished a failed two week experiment with Apple Cider Vinegar and Kombucha. I couldn't digest them because they're acidic - at the time I didn't know that Accutane had shut down my bile flow. So I'm regaining weight right now, and I've still got a few spots healing up from the stress of that.

[Edited image out] [Edited image out]

Also, a word to Indigo -

Right now I feel like one of those movie bad guys, where they get all powered up by stealing the hero's energy or whatever, and become a huge junkie. POWER... I NEED MORE POWER. That's what having energy is like, after you've lacked it for a long time. That's how good it feels. Think about it. It's the juice that lets you kick life in the ass. Nothing feels better.

EDIT:

Just wanted to add a couple of tips I got off the rag forum thread I'm in that I'm very excited about:

Quote

Thanks for the info. I'm a 25+ years Accutane victim. For #2, I searched the internet and found this TA-65 product based on the lack of Telomerase due to taking Accutane. But again, can we tolerate this and who knows what symptoms could come from this. I'm too afraid to take it. I can't eat your diet-no shellfish. For leaky gut, I am taking Sustain which helps a lot. I can't go a day without it. It's a powder with tons of minerals and vitamins and no gluten, shellfish, etc.

About TA-65

TA-65 is a proven telomerase activator* that was discovered by California biotech company Geron, and licensed to T.A Sciences. Our clients take TA-65 capsules in a 12 month program known as the Patton Protocol. TA-65 turns on the hTERT gene* which activates the enzyme telomerase which can lengthen your telomeres. We measure your telomeres before, during and after completing the Protocol to show actual changes in telomere length.

How is TA-65 made?

TA-65 is a naturally occurring single molecule found in the ancient Chinese herb Astragalus. T.A. Sciences has developed a proprietary process to refine and purify TA-65. Our process begins with tons of plant material harvested from selected farms in one small region in China. In our plant extraction facility, the raw Astragalus root is chopped up and refined. After initial extraction, the base ingredient is further purified and then sent to an outside government testing facility where it is tested for purity, heavy metals, and pesticides. The product is then sent to a FDA certified, state-of-the-art, laboratory for final purification that ends up with 90+% pure TA-65.

Why not simply buy Astragalus extracts in a health food store?

Astragalus extracts can be found in most health food stores, but such products contain little or no TA-65. We tested 4 commonly available Astragalus extracts and none of them contained any measureable amounts of TA-65 (the test assay is accurate to one part per million). Our proprietary production process starts with 3 tons of plant material and ends up with capsules that we guarantee contain 5mg of TA-65.

Joseph, you need to see a doctor. You've only had 3 posts on this website and they are extremely alarming. The term "Accutane Poisoning" isn't something you should throw around so easily without being medically proven, that's the kind of stuff that gives accutane a worse name than it already has. Not being able to digest fat and being "Non-Functional" years after taking accutane isn't common... hell it's not even rare, it's unheard of. I wouldn't rely on Google to save your life. I know this comment sounds harsh, but I think you have a much bigger problem than after effects of accutane.

 

I would like to step in. Obviously his side effects are rare but he is not alone.

My body barely absorbs nutrients. I've seen many doctors and have run almost every every test other than a stool test. Everything turned out fine. In other words, I am one of the people who has been severely poisoned by accutane.However, since everything looks fine on paper, doctors quickly dismiss the fact that I have many many issues.

Although for a while I believed that Kevin Trudeau was a scam artist because his books said so much yet so little, but watching that radio session revived my interest. Could this hydrogen peroxide work? Eh....Anyone willing to try it? Maybe I'll email Kevin and see what options he recommends.

We all obviously need a master cleanse to reboot our systems.

I can't believe I forgot to ask this question:

does anyone live in a state where MARIJUANA is legal for medicinal purposes?

The ingestion of cannabis oils has been found to reverse many illnesses, ranging from rheumatoid arthritis even to lupus (and the obvious such as cancer).

A lady named shona banda cured herself of terminal crohns. This was even after much of her organs/intestines were already removed.

From what I've read, hemp oil might be the most medicinal oil known to man. If anyone here lives in colorado/california and any other legalized state, PLEASE try hemp oil to see if any of your symptoms reverse.

Interesting, thanks for the tip on hemp and MJ.

Have you experimented with diet? Would you be open to trying the one I described?