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@broccoli_breath:
Good sir, I know I was a little heavy-handed, when I defriended you rather unceremoniously, after what I am sure others deemed a small scuffle, precipitated by an ambiguous disambiguation attempt, not one iota helped by your brain fog exacerbated heart murmurings; but, you must appreciate, I was a little disenchanted with you at the time. You still occupy a small place in my heart, because bluntly put; no one does crazy like you. There are obviously some other contenders, but calling them contenders is generous enough given the true standing of the present/future hierarchizing. I hope that in time you can pry out the raven and vampire bat that live in your black heart.
You missed your chance at the dramatic exit; my post at Panina was 99% legit.; I threw in a small slap at Areola. I know you are a little pissed I turned the sexism charges around; I was just joking.
Camaroz, what do you recommend everybody should try? I mean it seems you have a quite deep understanding of the biology or biochemistry, but I never see you recommending anything. I went through your posts and it seems that NAC, ALA, milk thistle worked for you for some time. Milk thistle is something you have to cycle you cannot take it constantly without it loosing effect. You also took these herbs from sensible health ( http://www.sensiblehealth.com/Journey-01.xhtml ). Do you reommend them, which ones, I have heard people on other forums talk about them before, so I am curious.
Detoxification process of the body to me is what seems most important in my recovery. Why did ALA, NAC and such stop working for Camaroz, I don't know, but I would guess that other nutrients that the body needed in the detox process were depleted by using high dose ALA, NAC. For instance you need to supplement with certain vitamine Bs when supplementing with ALA and NAC, this is for instance what Dr. Berkson always stress, but which I have also read elsewhere.
The phases of detoxification is something worth looking into. Zinc and UDCA are supposed to help phase I detox, they both helped me a lot. Should I boost phase I using other supplements? I don't know yet, am just starting to look into it and it seems worth looking into.
This lecture - the one that is translated - is a good intro and may give you a deeper understanding what is necessary to cure yourself. The other links are good as well. We should definitely get tested for our glutathion reserve and see whether it is depleted. This is one thing I took away from the lecture. The doc mentions that certain substances may have a halflife of more than 12 or 15 years, so these substances never really leave our body once they have entered. Mercury is probably such a substance. This is why substances like DMPS and DMSA were developed to excrete them from the body.
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Why did ALA, NAC and such stop working for Camaroz, I don't know,
Ha, that is easy. God is not playing with me anymore; he wants me upstairs ASAP. I have been tested and I have passed, evidently, although it doesn't seem that way to me. Tom said he will scatter my remains in a special portion of the garden; he said, I will assist him in growing pretty flowers.
You missed your chance at the dramatic exit; my post at Panina was 99% legit.; I threw in a small slap at Areola. I know you are a little pissed I turned the sexism charges around; I was just joking.
Camaroz, what do you recommend everybody should try? I mean it seems you have a quite deep understanding of the biology or biochemistry, but I never see you recommending anything. I went through your posts and it seems that NAC, ALA, milk thistle worked for you for some time. Milk thistle is something you have to cycle you cannot take it constantly without it loosing effect. You also took these herbs from sensible health ( http://www.sensiblehealth.com/Journey-01.xhtml ). Do you reommend them, which ones, I have heard people on other forums talk about them before, so I am curious.
Well, I was just messing with MovingOn in the instance above. I was just trying to get her to impugn my despicable character, like she promised. My recommendations are research and the Virginia Woolf quote. I do not have a background in science and biochemistry; however, that doesnt mean I cant pick the shenanigans at work here very easily.
I can recommend the products from Sensible Health like the 4-pack, for example. My gastroenterologist said they were helping my liver labs despite my already excellent results, but they eventually turned on me (like most of the women I know). In the end, they no longer provided any respite from symptoms and my liver results nose-dived. My gastroenterologist said that he could not offer anything above what I had already tried. His son had been on Accutane (good experience), so he was initially very loathe entertaining me at all. Eventually, my irrepressible charm wore him down. I almost got a biopsy out of it.
Yeah, me experience with Doctors when I mention Accutane has been outright hostile.
I also hate the experience of trying some new drug, only finding it's benefits fizzle out or never work at all.
In fact, the only thing that continues to work with me is Craze (Pre-workout supplement/stimulant for the gym).
Daaaaaamn that stuff makes me feel good. It's only meant to give you a small boost in mental focus to get more sets done but makes me feel like the Hulk. Surely not good for an already stressed adrenal gland, but if you stick to the recommended dosage and cycle off it when needed, I look forward too my next scoop like Christmas (works best when you push your body... eg exercise).
It really showed me what being awake means and returned that sense of 'drive' that I hadn't felt since my early teens. Only temporary for half a day but it was one of those wake up calls on my journey to discovering my problems. I'm meant to feel that good all the time. Naturally. Normally.
Update:
I phased UDCA out. Also took a break from P & B shakes. I was taking the P&B shakes for maybe 4 weeks. Two times during that time I took two teaspoons of EPSOM, which I feel helped me a lot to "get the trash taken out". A german detox doctor recommends EPSOM in his book,I don't remember which part of the digestive system he recommends it for exactly, but he wrote something along the lines of EPSOM being the only way to effectively cleanse certain parts of the digestive system.
My skin is better than it has in years. Right now I am only taking Liv.52 as well as TMG and Silymarin. The last two I take together in powdered form, I take 4 to 5 g spread over the day. So far I have not really felt that I am off UDCA, I have only seen it in the toilet. Color has changed to greenish, but form is still good.
Waiting on vitamin B complex to arrive. Should give me a boost, I have used it before years ago, but did not consider it a long-term solution, that's why I discontinued using it at the time. As it turns out many vitamin Bs are essential when using ALA, TMG or NAC for detox, which I plan on doing and am in part already doing.
Blue ice is high on my list as well, it is the favorit supplement of a friend of mine with similar health problems. If it is working for Joseph it will likely work for me as well.
About food and water. I used to drink a lot when having a meal, but about 3 years ago I developed the habit to refrain from drinking anything at least half an hour before and after eating. Certainly has helped my digestion.
Retinol pushes the retinoic acid out of the receptors and back out into the circulation and cod liver oil has massive amounts of retinol in it. I strongly STRONGLY suggest you take UDCA and other liver protectors like milk thistle and NAC if your gonna go this route, that liver will be fried to a fricassee if you don't heed that warning. All that accutane coming out at once, 1000's of mg of retinoic acid, it'll clog up your glucuronidation pathway if you don't, so thats why the udca / tudca is important in this instance. Get some herbs for the kidneys or herbal kidney teas and drink lot's of that to take the strain off the kidneys. Even still your on your own on this one, your walking alone and i'm not following you into the breach, been there done that. But in fairness I didn't do it right, but it's some dangerous shit if your not careful.
All that accutane coming out at once, 1000's of mg of retinoic acid, it'll clog up your glucuronidation pathway if you don't, so thats why the udca / tudca is important in this instance.
Yeah, that is why it takes an instance of sensitivity a few hours to settle. I guess if one were a woman and that were to happen when one was getting some grass-fed hiney, well then, a young lass would be in a pickle.
All that accutane coming out at once, 1000's of mg of retinoic acid, it'll clog up your glucuronidation pathway if you don't, so thats why the udca / tudca is important in this instance.
Yeah, that is why takes an instance of sensitivity a few hours to settle. I guess, if one were a woman and that were to happen when one was getting some grass-fed hiney, well then, a young lass would be in a pickle.
In the event, that there are any high-brow feminists out there, please note that the specificity pronouncements made in relation to the male hiney do not extend further.
It seems to me that your reasoning is backwards, Chico.If your theory is correct, then UDCA + Blue Ice is the only way to eliminate the vit A. A one day trial will suffice - no negative results will show that the Vit A is being circulated by the Blue Ice and flushed to stool by UDCA.If however my suspicions are correct and your interpretation of the data is wrong, then Blue Ice will probably have a beneficial effect not seen by other vit-A bearing oils, due to its synergistic effects - the same pattern I observed for myself.In that case, the problem was most likely hypersensitivity and malabsorption. In which case, taking it together with UDCA for a 1-day trial is again the safest way.Note that TUDCA with coating is not a recommended or effective way to take UDCA for those with severe multi-faceted problems such as ours. It's 1/3 less bioavailable, and the coating can cause digestive issues that mask any benefit. The recommended dose is 1.5g/d of pure uncoated UDCA.
It seems to me that your reasoning is backwards, Chico.If your theory is correct, then UDCA + Blue Ice is the only way to eliminate the vit A. A one day trial will suffice - no negative results will show that the Vit A is being circulated by the Blue Ice and flushed to stool by UDCA.If however my suspicions are correct and your interpretation of the data is wrong, then Blue Ice will probably have a beneficial effect not seen by other vit-A bearing oils, due to its synergistic effects - the same pattern I observed for myself.In that case, the problem was most likely hypersensitivity and malabsorption. In which case, taking it together with UDCA for a 1-day trial is again the safest way.Note that TUDCA with coating is not a recommended or effective way to take UDCA for those with severe multi-faceted problems such as ours. It's 1/3 less bioavailable, and the coating can cause digestive issues that mask any benefit. The recommended dose is 1.5g/d of pure uncoated UDCA.
It takes more than one day to notice the side effects, it'll take around 1-2 weeks of constant use, the more retinol the more the effect. The dietary retinol goes into the body and is used in the vitamin A receptors, the accutane bound to the vitamin A receptors (because of the lack of other retinol sources) is then pushed back into the circulation / lymph.
Bodybuilders that take oral exogenous hormones like dianabol, take udca to protect their liver during that time. When their taking this stuff they have their natural testosterone plus this synthetic derivative testosterone circulating in their body at the same time, the glucuronidation pathway is what the body uses to remove fat soluble hormones and fat soluble vitamins. So if taken without udca it can cause cholestasis via shutting down the bile pathways in the liver, thats when steroid users get into big problems. Ironically accutane is removed in exactly the same way, so theoretically it can cause exactly the same thing to happen.
Blue ice contains 12,000iu in a teaspoon, i've noticed that 5,000iu is all the body needs for a full day, anything above that is overkill.
If your going to do this you NEED to be taking UDCA at at least 1 gram per day, you'll have to experiment finding the dose that's right for you it may be higher. Make sure your lymph is flowing via dry skin brushing or lymphatic massage, take kidney herbs to protect the kidneys, even still it's dangerous because it could potentially be a lot of retinoic acid flooding the body at once and will certainly cause symptoms of hypervitaminosis A, just be careful is all i'm saying.
Thanks very much, Chico, that was lucidly put.
I will extend my testing phase and keep your admonitions in mind. And I'll consider perhaps backing off on dose.
But for now I want to ramp up and see whether anything bad happens. Both food quantity and blue ice dosage. I have new limits and I want to find them.
Incidentally, I have strong evidence of K2 deficiency. Tooth plaque is decreasing substantially, my saliva tastes more "chalky", and my teeth feel sharper on the tongue. These are symptoms of K2's ability to efficiently distribute calcium.
Also, I had probably the most epicly perfect dump I've ever experienced, the full inverse of diarrhea. Any more and fiber will be an absolute requirement.
I'll be getting a full liver/hepatobiliary checkup, plus ultrasound shortly as well. May as well cover my bases.
Cod liver oil has a long history of use so I'm not terribly worried, but I don't want to screw with a damaged system either.
Yeah, me experience with Doctors when I mention Accutane has been outright hostile.
I also hate the experience of trying some new drug, only finding it's benefits fizzle out or never work at all.
In fact, the only thing that continues to work with me is Craze (Pre-workout supplement/stimulant for the gym).
Daaaaaamn that stuff makes me feel good. It's only meant to give you a small boost in mental focus to get more sets done but makes me feel like the Hulk. Surely not good for an already stressed adrenal gland, but if you stick to the recommended dosage and cycle off it when needed, I look forward too my next scoop like Christmas (works best when you push your body... eg exercise).
It really showed me what being awake means and returned that sense of 'drive' that I hadn't felt since my early teens. Only temporary for half a day but it was one of those wake up calls on my journey to discovering my problems. I'm meant to feel that good all the time. Naturally. Normally.
Rob Riches a famous natural bodybuilder got banned the other day from a WADA tested show because N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine was found in Craze his pre workout, he's quite a big celebrity in the youtube bodybuilding world. It's meant to be a great pre workout though and thats a great testimonial. I don't mention accutane too doctors, it instantly puts them on the defensive.
Thanks very much, Chico, that was lucidly put.
Also, I had probably the most epicly perfect dump I've ever experienced, the full inverse of diarrhea. Any more and fiber will be an absolute requirement.
Yes, Mr. Geppetto, and you too have a way of elucidating things lucidly. Chico, what happens to the randy women with procreation on their minds? I hope we have a good plumber reading this.
I am an 18 year old girl. I am about to go into my 3rd month of Accutane. Aside from the horrible cracking and bleeding of my lips, muscle pain, and nosebleeds I have had some other really scary side effects. 6 days into the medication i started having numbness in my hands and feet. i was told that it was not a symptom of Accutane but did some research myself and found that it was. My doctor diagnosed me with pernicious anemia meaning that i no longer had the ability to effectively absorb B12 and that i can no longer produce red blood cells at a normal rate. I have had extreme numbing in my hands and feet and swelling supposedly caused by lack of oxygen to my veins so they couldn't pump the blood properly. Now they are saying that i may have neuropathy. No one seems to know what is going on with me and I'm still hearing from some that it isn't caused by the Accutane (although my doctor is starting to take my complaints more seriously), but i haven't ever had problems like this before. Is anyone else having these problems?
Is anyone else having these problems?
Yes, neuropathy has been diagnosed in those who have taken DHT inhibitors. All of the high-brow diagnosticians here havent ascended to the lofty heights beyond life-long hypervitaminosis A and life-long, undiagnosable, drug-induced cholestasis. Isnt it unwelcoming for people with real problems to be greeted by that diatribe-espousing, skeletal hobo?
If they're leaning to neuropathy, I'd be hunting for my closest hyperbaric chamber. Would probably help with alot of the other side effects as well.