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No buddy The grape seed extract has very beneficial properties for tane hairloss victims... It reduces the production and proliferation of a cytokine called TGF BETA 2, which is believed to be at the centre of the problem... It has been proven in a relatively recent study that retinoids upregulate this inflamatary cytokine. So abviously reducing it is beneficial... 300mg is an effective dose aswell!!
See Study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15955085?dopt=Abstract
And your welcome my friend, i am only here to help, although some people think otherwise for some reason!!
Blazed that isn't what you have.... If you Had DUPA there is no could go bald about it, it's inevitable, so i'm sure you know you don't have it. Your derm told you what you had and all the evidence points to the same thing... You no longer shed it's just a matter of waiting for regrowth and if that doesn't happen use minox/cooper peptides/emu oil.
Oh yeah DUPA isn't exactly going to effect the rest of the body hair, which i know isn't the case with you, but for many others on different boards it is. Clearly it isn't DUPA...
I have used pretty much every product over the last year other than oral things like propecia. I have used the tricomin aswell and i do feel it helps soothe the scalp, it didn't do much to reduce the shedding.
The emu oil totally relieves me of any itching/burning. It also seems to reduce the shedding slighty, coupled with that i can say for certain it helps to regrow hair in myself, which it does claim to do in many hairloss situations...
Blazejin, I got your PM.
I don't really count all the hair that falls off my head but on my pillow case i see about 6-10 strands. Then in the shower every morning i lose probably 20-30 more strands of hair. Don't really count the rest of the hair I lose throughout the day. I hope that gives you a good estimate.
I started to lose my hair after accutane. I didn't even realized I was shedding hear until my mom said she notice less hair on my head. this was probably 6 months after I stopped taking accutane.
So yeah its been more than 16months since I stop taking accutane and as far as I know I'm still shedding. I hope we all recover soon. Is anyone here been shedding for longer than 16months?
I have been shedding for about a year now, mine started very suddenly one month after i finished tane. My derm told me Diffuse AA should resolve anything from a few months up to 2 or so years. The thing is there is obviously cases where it continues for much longer, all i can say is Tony Chu is not the sort to say something unless he is certain of it. So i think, like i said a while back, so long as you don't have other side effects from the drug you should resolve within this time frame.
I have been shedding for about a year now, mine started very suddenly one month after i finished tane. My derm told me Diffuse AA should resolve anything from a few months up to 2 or so years. The thing is there is obviously cases where it continues for much longer, all i can say is Tony Chu is not the sort to say something unless he is certain of it. So i think, like i said a while back, so long as you don't have other side effects from the drug you should resolve within this time frame.
thankyou for the reply lamarr! and also the whole year thing terrifies me to no end! i am so sorry!
and about your symptoms, do you beleive that your case is Diffuse AA?
the reason i ask is my derm told me that my case could be either Telogen Effluvium, Diffuse alopecia areata, or a provoked case of MPB(great). and aparently there are seperate preventive precautions that can be takin with each of these.
and also has your shedding slowed down?
What combination of products have aided you the most? i am allready going to purchase emu oil!
what about steiroids? kenalog shots and the sorts, has anyone had sucess from this?
I read a few posts discussing an auto immune response, what does that mean?
sorry for the barrage but this really helps!
I believe my case is Diffuse AA or something that so closely mimics it that the two can't be differentiated (spelling). By that i mean many derms are starting to see long term hairloss from tane as diffuse AA, the only real way to tell the difference between TE and Diffuse AA is via the use of florescent markers which are used to see if there is an increased amount of T cells (immune cells) around the hair follicles, you need a biopsy for this to be performed.
It can be assumed that if you have diffuse hairloss that involves body hair or has persisted for over a year that you have diffuse AA.
If you have AA you will likely have some sort of itching/burning sensation, but sometimes not if it is onl yminor hairloss.
I'm using topical steroids with pretty good success, it hasn't stopped things but has improved things alot.
Auto immune is just a term used for conditions/diseases that involve our immune system mistakenly attacking different parts of the body, like in Diffuse Alopecia Areata.
Edit: yeah the emu oil is great because you really need not worry about any negative effects from it, other than a greasy looks head. So just apply it at night and wash off in the morning, or apply is 30 mins before u shower and wash out, You need a dropper or something to get it to the scalp.
What did your derm say about treatment options for diffuse AA? i'm glad he/she recignised it as a potential possibility, i'm guessing your from the UK. where abouts do you live Daniel?
actually, i am from central america, kansas to be exact. my derm just so happened to have seen a few cases of accutane hairloss, 3 of them never recovered....
there is no cure for diffuse AA, i can take minoxidil, propecia, or topical or injected steiroids to sway symptoms, but as soon as i stop with any of these, aparently my hair will just fall out...he said to be weary because all of these have some harsh side effects, and trust me, after accutane i am weary! he wont prescribe me anything for at least 6 months... (greeeeaat) so i suppose i have to wait...
i have no itching of the scalp or body hairloss.... i hope it is not MPB
somehow i believe that there is some concrete solution to the hairloss provoked by accutane.. it is just so strange. there is next to no formal research done on this, which makes me beleive that there is a concrete solution..
the bald look can be rad, as long as you are physically huge IE vin diesel... haha
True there is no cure for aa, but the thing is we aren't genetically predisposed to it. If we can stop the shedding completely via the use of a topical/injected/systemic drugs, it should stay stopped...
I like to think of it as breaking a cycle. The problem with me is only systemic drugs will work to completely stop it as i loose body hair aswell....
My derm (top guy in the UK) says AA induced by tane normally recovers on it's own within a few years, obviously not always though... I'm gonna try my darndist to beat it and atleast when you know what you have you know how to tackle it...
Oh yeah and daniel please show the following study to your derm...
Daniel, at least your derm is being truthful and isn't quick to put you on different treatments. My derm. also said he several patients that had Accutane induced hair loss, and assured me they all recovered, and that I too will get the same results. I would like to think that these people who don't recover were going to go bald anyway maybe because of MPB, but Im not so sure anymore and it seems like Im loosing all hope for recovery. There are a lot of people who experienced hair loss and posted messages going back to 1999, but there are no updates from them which means they recovered or just accepted their loss and moved on. I regret taking this drug every single day.
Sorry but bald is not a good look... well in my opinion.
I wish I read this article before taking this drug!
Blazed- thank you for linking us to that article. It definately provided some interesting insights into all of this crap.
edit: the article has also persuaded me to re-think my vitamin regimin some. Specifically I thought it was interesting that the author wrote vitamin b2 should be avoided- b2 has been used as another method of acne treatment and interestingly there are some reports that using high doses of b2 causes hair loss.
I also thought this information about hyaluronic acid was interesting. everyone should read the article blazed posted- very interesting stuff. I checked out the authors background and he is apparently a consumor advocate who makes a living from writing healthy living kinds of books. His motives may be questionable but he does provide references to all of his claims which appear to be sound.
Lamarr,
your efforts are not in vain!
i understand not being genetically predisposed to the condition, however if all AA is the result of an auto immune response, then the final product of AA would inherently be the same, regardless of accutane or not. accutane provoked the immune system to attack the hair follicles, which is the same case for genetics triggering the immune system to attack the follicles.
unless its not alopecia areata i dont see how basic medicinal precautions would yield any different results to the condition, accutane provoked or not.
pardon me for my pessimism, but i havnen't discovered a single accutane hairloss patient that was abnormally different from normal hairloss patients. i see accutane as a "trigger," not a caustic cycle that can be broken.
time seems to be the only possible cure
Blazed,
True, my derm is being rational, and not quick to throw medication at me. i am blessed in that sense.
you had a kenalog correct?
and to no avail?
no sense in giving up hope, and for that matter no sense in getting worked up over it either, whats the use anyways, if it happens it happens, but educating ourselves on this is the only practical thing to do. other than that, dont think about it...
I've been shedding for about 16 months now, I guess the good news is that it seems to be about the same in appearance as month 7 and recently looking better. I'm convinced that all of my side effects are somehow related to the immune system. I have hairloss, flushing, an uneven red skin tone not extreme enough for rosacea but definately off color, weird texture on the face, and dry skin. There are a number of triggers that I've noticed over the past year that seem to aggravate the issues. Particulary, I wanted to hear what others had to say about drinking alcohol post tane. I had become accustomed for most of 2007 to having terrible skin tone, the oilyness but very dry and flaky underneath and the aformentioned side effects. Anyways, I recently decided to take a semester off from school because my major blew and in the mean time I wanted to try and get as healthy as possible even though I've always been in great health, the side effects just make you look sick I guess. I stopped drinking alcohol for a month and could not believe how different I looked, my skin tone improved while the dryness went away and overall I looked like a whole new person, mind you the interesting thing is I never drank alot in the first place so I didn't make the connection to alcohol I just felt like it was possible I was finally over all the side effects . After all of this, some friends came into town and I had maybe five drinks and literally the next day all of my problems were right back! I couldn't believe after one night that my skin could be so severely dry especially on my face and the redness was there as well. I know alcohol can trigger dehydration and rosacea but this was definately more like an allergic reaction. I've had my share of hangovers prior to accutane and know the difference as well. What was interesting is that it took about a week! to recover from all of this it wasn't just the following morning or day. So, I looked online and found that some of the ingredients in beer can cause allergic reactions, wheat barley yeast gluten, and they are all reactions caused by the immune system. My question is, if my body has such a reaction from a small amount of beer, perhaps all of my prior symptoms were coming from the once a week or so I drank in 07? Does it make sense that having dry skin like that for such a long period could cause hair loss? So, I made an appointment with my doctor to test and see if accutane has caused my immune system to react to some substance in beer and perhaps other foods like bread etc to pinpoint why I had such a reaction. Prior to accutane I had no problems drinking. Anyways, I could go alot deeper but wanted to see what others opinions were and sorry about the book I just wrote.
Lamarr,
your efforts are not in vain!
i understand not being genetically predisposed to the condition, however if all AA is the result of an auto immune response, then the final product of AA would inherently be the same, regardless of accutane or not. accutane provoked the immune system to attack the hair follicles, which is the same case for genetics triggering the immune system to attack the follicles.
unless its not alopecia areata i dont see how basic medicinal precautions would yield any different results to the condition, accutane provoked or not.
pardon me for my pessimism, but i havnen't discovered a single accutane hairloss patient that was abnormally different from normal hairloss patients. i see accutane as a "trigger," not a caustic cycle that can be broken.
time seems to be the only possible cure
Daniel it is far more complex than that.
When i say a cycle, it is a very difficult cycle to break....
However as you will know, marker cells and t cells play a huge role as do inflammatory cytokens.
The marker cells mark the hair follicles as a foreign object. Now people with AA, of pretty much any degree, can be given full heads of hair, it just depends how agressive the treatment needs to be. They can ALL be put in to remission one way or another, but obviously most relapse within month/years after stopping the treatment course.
However, this is where we differ, our hairloss is drug induced, the t cells are made in a cyclical manner in the lymph gland and so long as there are a few antibodies made for the hairfollicle the cycle of more anti bodies will continue, if the cycle can be broken in people who aren't genetically predisposed, it should stop.
I'm loosing less hair all the time, but my hairloss got up to a whopping 3-400 hairs a day at one point, i have no problem having to continually use a treatment if it will prevent me from loosing more hair, that is no problem for me anyway...
insaneonthetane said:I've been shedding for about 16 months now, I guess the good news is that it seems to be about the same in appearance as month 7 and recently looking better. I'm convinced that all of my side effects are somehow related to the immune system. I have hairloss, flushing, an uneven red skin tone not extreme enough for rosacea but definately off color, weird texture on the face, and dry skin. There are a number of triggers that I've noticed over the past year that seem to aggravate the issues. Particulary, I wanted to hear what others had to say about drinking alcohol post tane. I had become accustomed for most of 2007 to having terrible skin tone, the oilyness but very dry and flaky underneath and the aformentioned side effects. Anyways, I recently decided to take a semester off from school because my major blew and in the mean time I wanted to try and get as healthy as possible even though I've always been in great health, the side effects just make you look sick I guess. I stopped drinking alcohol for a month and could not believe how different I looked, my skin tone improved while the dryness went away and overall I looked like a whole new person, mind you the interesting thing is I never drank alot in the first place so I didn't make the connection to alcohol I just felt like it was possible I was finally over all the side effects . After all of this, some friends came into town and I had maybe five drinks and literally the next day all of my problems were right back! I couldn't believe after one night that my skin could be so severely dry especially on my face and the redness was there as well. I know alcohol can trigger dehydration and rosacea but this was definately more like an allergic reaction. I've had my share of hangovers prior to accutane and know the difference as well. What was interesting is that it took about a week! to recover from all of this it wasn't just the following morning or day. So, I looked online and found that some of the ingredients in beer can cause allergic reactions, wheat barley yeast gluten, and they are all reactions caused by the immune system. My question is, if my body has such a reaction from a small amount of beer, perhaps all of my prior symptoms were coming from the once a week or so I drank in 07? Does it make sense that having dry skin like that for such a long period could cause hair loss? So, I made an appointment with my doctor to test and see if accutane has caused my immune system to react to some substance in beer and perhaps other foods like bread etc to pinpoint why I had such a reaction. Prior to accutane I had no problems drinking. Anyways, I could go alot deeper but wanted to see what others opinions were and sorry about the book I just wrote.
Your case is similar to mine, the flushing is very similar to that of rosacea and the cause is an auto immune response within the cappilaries, i get it every single day...sucks balls.
Acctuane alters several aspects of the immune system i can provide links for some light reading...
Heres a quick intro [Edited link out]
It will sound like words of a crazy man here, but i will tell you anyway as i only try to help, i feel i have come a long way in understanding my side effects. I feel much better when i avoid vitamin A, i avoid pretty much every sort, even the sort from vegetables, it stops me from getting the painfull mouth ulcers and somewhat helps reduce shedding.
lamarr1986 said:insaneonthetane said:I've been shedding for about 16 months now, I guess the good news is that it seems to be about the same in appearance as month 7 and recently looking better. I'm convinced that all of my side effects are somehow related to the immune system. I have hairloss, flushing, an uneven red skin tone not extreme enough for rosacea but definately off color, weird texture on the face, and dry skin. There are a number of triggers that I've noticed over the past year that seem to aggravate the issues. Particulary, I wanted to hear what others had to say about drinking alcohol post tane. I had become accustomed for most of 2007 to having terrible skin tone, the oilyness but very dry and flaky underneath and the aformentioned side effects. Anyways, I recently decided to take a semester off from school because my major blew and in the mean time I wanted to try and get as healthy as possible even though I've always been in great health, the side effects just make you look sick I guess. I stopped drinking alcohol for a month and could not believe how different I looked, my skin tone improved while the dryness went away and overall I looked like a whole new person, mind you the interesting thing is I never drank alot in the first place so I didn't make the connection to alcohol I just felt like it was possible I was finally over all the side effects . After all of this, some friends came into town and I had maybe five drinks and literally the next day all of my problems were right back! I couldn't believe after one night that my skin could be so severely dry especially on my face and the redness was there as well. I know alcohol can trigger dehydration and rosacea but this was definately more like an allergic reaction. I've had my share of hangovers prior to accutane and know the difference as well. What was interesting is that it took about a week! to recover from all of this it wasn't just the following morning or day. So, I looked online and found that some of the ingredients in beer can cause allergic reactions, wheat barley yeast gluten, and they are all reactions caused by the immune system. My question is, if my body has such a reaction from a small amount of beer, perhaps all of my prior symptoms were coming from the once a week or so I drank in 07? Does it make sense that having dry skin like that for such a long period could cause hair loss? So, I made an appointment with my doctor to test and see if accutane has caused my immune system to react to some substance in beer and perhaps other foods like bread etc to pinpoint why I had such a reaction. Prior to accutane I had no problems drinking. Anyways, I could go alot deeper but wanted to see what others opinions were and sorry about the book I just wrote.Your case is similar to mine, the flushing is very similar to that of rosacea and the cause is an auto immune response within the cappilaries, i get it every single day...sucks balls.
Acctuane alters several aspects of the immune system i can provide links for some light reading...
Heres a quick intro [Edited link out]
It will sound like words of a crazy man here, but i will tell you anyway as i only try to help, i feel i have come a long way in understanding my side effects. I feel much better when i avoid vitamin A, i avoid pretty much every sort, even the sort from vegetables, it stops me from getting the painfull mouth ulcers and somewhat helps reduce shedding.
I've seen you mention on past post that their are medications to take for flushing/rosacea, if so what are they and how have they worked for you, I"m going to see a new derm next week and would rather inform them to a degree than here all the usual crap they tend to dish. I took a medicine called Abilify for ocd and my body had really dramatic effects while on it. My skin completely stopped being dry even after a shower and my face turned a completely normal color again, I wasn't expecting any of this so I know it wasn't wishful thinking. Id lk to know what kind of calming effects a medicine like this has on the body or specifically how it reacts with the immune system because whatever was overreacting in the first place was put in remission. I was used to growing a beard and having my entire face covered with dry skin in doing so, anyone know why?, but on that medicineeverything was fine, really weird.
Unfortunately the changes that accutane can cause in the body are not fully understood, i don't think anyone could tell you why that drug helped you so much, i guess it isn't the sort of thing that is good for you long term though right? otherwise you would still be taking it.
I take colonidine for flushing, it helps keep the skin calmer, i also use propanalol from time to time. All my problems started before i took any other drugs before anyone says anything (no one in this thread), they are all tane related.
As for the hairloss, as i'm sure you will see from this thread now, people are starting to come round to the idea of diffuse AA, that i have been trying to tell everyone long term hairloss from tane always is... I am fighting it reasonably well now, my hairline is even filling in to a certain degree, the rest of my hair is as thick as anyone else, although that is in part due to how thick my hair was to begin with.
Topical steroids are pretty safe, very little risk of any internal problems and even if you do get temporary adrenal supression (highly unlikely) it always resolves. My only worry is the degree of skin thinning i may get, but at the moment is it keeping my hair for me so i won't be stopping them...
Stretch marks and broken cappilaries aren't really to much of an issue on the scalp due to the low absorbtion rates.
Hey guys, could you all do me a favour and try Grape seed extract? Try the type blazed is using at a dose of 600mg a day and if you are in the UK i can give you a source to use.
There is a great deal of science behind why grape seed extract could potentially be of great help....
