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i noticed the hairs that have been falling out on me have continuesly gotten finer and thinner. Like the hairs i was losing two monthes ago were much thicker.Anybody else notice this?Is this MPB?
Are they shorter, too? I have a few theories about the finer hairs you see falling. One is that it could be MPB. Another is that the Accutane didn't just stop the hair growing all at once. It reduced each hair follicle's ability to keratinize well, i.e, it hampered the follicle's ability to build the hair. So that finer hairs are actually hairs that were beginning to grow just as you started taking the drug. If that makes sense.
It does make sense. I'm too losing bunch of hairs some are thick black(TE regrowth couse my hair is lighter and thinner than that usualy) some are mine and some are samller thinner (all from the same place if i pool them).
my doc (not derm) said it as well may regrow couse i do have many possible TE trigers in my past 6 months so it should take time.
I owuld also say that the hairs that I am losing now seem to be a bit thinner and finer then they were to begin with. The thing is I guess i'm sort of hoping that it is MPB instead of the latter you mentioned Andy cause if that's the case then wouldn't that mean that our hair follicles are permanetly damaged and we're fucked. I dunno. My loss seems to have stabilized as I am shedding less and less hair throughout the day now or when i rub my hands through my hair, but I still lose between 15-30 in the shower, but it has been more around 15-20 recently. My hair though is still a mess and just is a shell of what it used to be, and i've had pretty much zero regrowth. I plan on starting propecia as soon as I get my arimidex which is in the mail and should be here shortly. I'm hoping that it will stop the loss and I can regrow some of the hair I had to begin with. If I can do that and have it stay that way throughout the rest of my 20s then I will be pleased. Ron welcome to the club.
As far as the articles go and the answer you got from the doctor Andy it plays into the theory I had before. Whether it's accutane or TE our hair has cycled 10-20 years ahead of time into MPB. What I mean is maybe I was destined to deal with MPB at some point or even have it hit sometime in the next few years. However, with the full head of hair I had before this I highly doubt I would experience any signifigant hair loss that would be noticeable until well into my 30s or even 40s if that makes sense. That's why when I read posts of guys with accutane induced hair loss starting propecia and rogaine and then regrowing all of their original hair it makes me wonder.
As far as the articles go and the answer you got from the doctor Andy it plays into the theory I had before. Whether it's accutane or TE our hair has cycled 10-20 years ahead of time into MPB. What I mean is maybe I was destined to deal with MPB at some point or even have it hit sometime in the next few years. However, with the full head of hair I had before this I highly doubt I would experience any signifigant hair loss that would be noticeable until well into my 30s or even 40s if that makes sense. That's why when I read posts of guys with accutane induced hair loss starting propecia and rogaine and then regrowing all of their original hair it makes me wonder.
Dude stay away from propecia and try minoxidil... couse if what you think is true then man we all messed for life! you don't realy want to be enslaved by propecia(the derms push it allways to get% from the maker).
so mainly stop panicking and make us feel bad.
I'm only 19! my hair cant be 65 years old allready! also I have no grey hair... hopefully we all se regrowth in the next period of year +- couse our TE trigger is a well persistent one! so don't think you will one day wake up with all your hair growing, it should be a verry slow process.
Vit A poisoning is probably the best explenetion to what i'm going thru i believe it, my perents think so(they are M.Ds) so man there still is some hope! dont do propecia yet! you may need the DHT for your hair to grow again later(in some way i think the dht is not our problem so you shouldn't mess with it!)
_Andy_ said:Hey guys,I spent my morning trying to illustrate my final theory about what happened to us. See it here:
[Edited link out]
ok! man it is similar almost to what i'm going thru couse i allso can sometimes see some new thick black hairs!(regrowth) but i shed them also!.. my hair is thin realy thin! I still hopeful that it will at least stay that way.. i dont wan't to shave my head by my 20 birthday.
man it will be great if i could get my hair back as it was last year.
Andy and others, did you all see an increase in shedding before it ended? i am loosing SOSO much in the shower every day, it is crazy, litraly over 100 in the shower. Funny thing is though my hair (other than my fringe as the new hair hasn't been able to get to that length) actually looks thicker than a month ago? i took photos of my crown side etc at the onset of all of this and they look identical to now (nearly 3 months later) my fringe is becoming noticeable though, which is very annoying. I really want to know what i look like with a skin head so i may buzz it off if/when the shedding stops...
I was inspecting for new growth last night, you should try my method...Part it when wet then hold one side down with the teeth of the comb and push down on your hair. I can see tonnes more short hairs, the ones from before all lay down with the rest of my hair now so i know im continueing to get new growth...I just wish the shedding would stop so i don't receed any more!!
Andy and others, did you all see an increase in shedding before it ended? i am loosing SOSO much in the shower every day, it is crazy, litraly over 100 in the shower. Funny thing is though my hair (other than my fringe as the new hair hasn't been able to get to that length) actually looks thicker than a month ago? i took photos of my crown side etc at the onset of all of this and they look identical to now (nearly 3 months later) my fringe is becoming noticeable though, which is very annoying. I really want to know what i look like with a skin head so i may buzz it off if/when the shedding stops...
I was inspecting for new growth last night, you should try my method...Part it when wet then hold one side down with the teeth of the comb and push down on your hair. I can see tonnes more short hairs, the ones from before all lay down with the rest of my hair now so i know im continueing to get new growth...I just wish the shedding would stop so i don't receed any more!!
Yes, Lamarr. I shed like crazy before it finally stopped. Maybe 200 hairs a day. Then it just stopped one day.
Any thoughts on my theory, by the way?
One thing i dont understand in your theory is why you think it takes 2 months for the trigger to take place... Because i know accutane is cumulative but, my theory is that upping the dose or simply the initiation of the drug is what triggers the shedding.
E.g. if someone is upped to 60mg from 40mg in the 3rd month and their telogen length is three months then the shedding will begin three months from this point... Other than that you could well be on the money...I don't think we will ever know for certain though.
I don't think you should be to worried Andy, your doing all i would do in your situation. Minox won't kick in for a few months yet, the regrowth your getting now is probably all natural... I think hair will regrow as fast as we lost it, when it does begin, but it really won't be as easy to see, it's not like we can see regrowth on our hands when we shower...lol.
One thing i think some of us will of experience is the vitamin A poisening and i think regrowth won't begin properly until our bodies sort this toxicity out, which may be a good few months yet....I think this is one way regrowth differs from your standard TE, along with others such as oil secreation...
P.s. WHat was your course like Andy, e.g. dose per month...
One thing i dont understand in your theory is why you think it takes 2 months for the trigger to take place... Because i know accutane is cumulative but, my theory is that upping the dose or simply the initiation of the drug is what triggers the shedding.E.g. if someone is upped to 60mg from 40mg in the 3rd month and their telogen length is three months then the shedding will begin three months from this point... Other than that you could well be on the money...I don't think we will ever know for certain though.
I don't think you should be to worried Andy, your doing all i would do in your situation. Minox won't kick in for a few months yet, the regrowth your getting now is probably all natural... I think hair will regrow as fast as we lost it, when it does begin, but it really won't be as easy to see, it's not like we can see regrowth on our hands when we shower...lol.
One thing i think some of us will of experience is the vitamin A poisening and i think regrowth won't begin properly until our bodies sort this toxicity out, which may be a good few months yet....I think this is one way regrowth differs from your standard TE, along with others such as oil secreation...
You're right, we may never know. I figure the trigger was 2 months' worth of Accutane because I started shedding in month 5. 5 minus 3 (length of the telogen phase) = 2.
Was your dose upped in month two though? that's what i'm trying to get at
No, it remained constant. You know what's interesting, though? Due to insurance issues, I had to take 1 pill, instead of the normal 2, for about 7 days. I wonder if upping it again to 2 caused the problem. In fact this all happened one month before the hair loss.
Was your dose upped in month two though? that's what i'm trying to get at
No, it remained constant. You know what's interesting, though? Due to insurance issues, I had to take 1 pill, instead of the normal 2, for about 7 days. I wonder if upping it again to 2 caused the problem. In fact this all happened one month before the hair loss.
Actually it dosn't metter if you got more or less per day... the toxicity is mainly because of the amount your body sees as eceess that triggers it.. also if there was a trigger it will stay.. till your accutane level is < than the point which it toxic to your body.
time people time and luck!.
My dose was 60mg a day. I weighed about 160lb. at the time.
I have no idea what I'm seeing. I see new, short hairs. But it really is difficult to find them - not necessarily because they aren't there, but because they might be getting mixed in with other hair.
If, somehow, regrowth is right on schedule (6 months), then in a month the short hairs I see and don't see will grow. And in a month I will have some semblance of normalacy back. But I really am skeptical of what I am seeing.
As far as the articles go and the answer you got from the doctor Andy it plays into the theory I had before. Whether it's accutane or TE our hair has cycled 10-20 years ahead of time into MPB. What I mean is maybe I was destined to deal with MPB at some point or even have it hit sometime in the next few years. However, with the full head of hair I had before this I highly doubt I would experience any signifigant hair loss that would be noticeable until well into my 30s or even 40s if that makes sense. That's why when I read posts of guys with accutane induced hair loss starting propecia and rogaine and then regrowing all of their original hair it makes me wonder.
Dude stay away from propecia and try minoxidil... couse if what you think is true then man we all messed for life! you don't realy want to be enslaved by propecia(the derms push it allways to get% from the maker).
so mainly stop panicking and make us feel bad.
I'm only 19! my hair cant be 65 years old allready! also I have no grey hair... hopefully we all se regrowth in the next period of year +- couse our TE trigger is a well persistent one! so don't think you will one day wake up with all your hair growing, it should be a verry slow process.
Vit A poisoning is probably the best explenetion to what i'm going thru i believe it, my perents think so(they are M.Ds) so man there still is some hope! dont do propecia yet! you may need the DHT for your hair to grow again later(in some way i think the dht is not our problem so you shouldn't mess with it!)
I'm going to have to disagree with you guys here when you state that vitamin A poisioning is the main reason our hair loss is occuring. I mean yes vitamin A overdose due to the retinoid accutane is the reason we're in this mess in the first place, but the overall amount of vitamin A leaves our systems about a mouth after ceasing treatment, i.e. there are no excess levels of vit a or accutane still in our bodies or livers, you can go get it checked out in a blood test like I did and i assure you it will come back normal. However, the problem is due to the Vit A overdose during the actual treatment the whole way our cells regenerate and bind to one another has been screwed up. Vitamin A is a crucial component in cell rejuvenation and bonding etc, the excess levels in our system during therapy has changed the way our DNA transcripts and thus our cells become all out of wack. The reason why our hair also becomes screwed up is because hair cells are actually one of the most sensitive cells in the whole human body so any change such as I just described would cause them to be one of the first areas to really see this problem. I don't doubt that there is a component of TE involved for some such as Lamar and perhaps David who have lots alot of hair but have regrown hair at the same time, but like i've been saying all alogn accutane isn't a clear cut case of TE there's a lot more going on.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminA/
this is an article from Oregon State University go down to the section where they talk about how Vitamin A plays a crucial role in regulation of gene expression and cellular differentation.
As far as the articles go and the answer you got from the doctor Andy it plays into the theory I had before. Whether it's accutane or TE our hair has cycled 10-20 years ahead of time into MPB. What I mean is maybe I was destined to deal with MPB at some point or even have it hit sometime in the next few years. However, with the full head of hair I had before this I highly doubt I would experience any signifigant hair loss that would be noticeable until well into my 30s or even 40s if that makes sense. That's why when I read posts of guys with accutane induced hair loss starting propecia and rogaine and then regrowing all of their original hair it makes me wonder.
Dude stay away from propecia and try minoxidil... couse if what you think is true then man we all messed for life! you don't realy want to be enslaved by propecia(the derms push it allways to get% from the maker).
so mainly stop panicking and make us feel bad.
I'm only 19! my hair cant be 65 years old allready! also I have no grey hair... hopefully we all se regrowth in the next period of year +- couse our TE trigger is a well persistent one! so don't think you will one day wake up with all your hair growing, it should be a verry slow process.
Vit A poisoning is probably the best explenetion to what i'm going thru i believe it, my perents think so(they are M.Ds) so man there still is some hope! dont do propecia yet! you may need the DHT for your hair to grow again later(in some way i think the dht is not our problem so you shouldn't mess with it!)
I'm going to have to disagree with you guys here when you state that vitamin A poisioning is the main reason our hair loss is occuring. I mean yes vitamin A overdose due to the retinoid accutane is the reason we're in this mess in the first place, but the overall amount of vitamin A leaves our systems about a mouth after ceasing treatment, i.e. there are no excess levels of vit a or accutane still in our bodies or livers, you can go get it checked out in a blood test like I did and i assure you it will come back normal. However, the problem is due to the Vit A overdose during the actual treatment the whole way our cells regenerate and bind to one another has been screwed up. Vitamin A is a crucial component in cell rejuvenation and bonding etc, the excess levels in our system during therapy has changed the way our DNA transcripts and thus our cells become all out of wack. The reason why our hair also becomes screwed up is because hair cells are actually one of the most sensitive cells in the whole human body so any change such as I just described would cause them to be one of the first areas to really see this problem. I don't doubt that there is a component of TE involved for some such as Lamar and perhaps David who have lots alot of hair but have regrown hair at the same time, but like i've been saying all alogn accutane isn't a clear cut case of TE there's a lot more going on.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminA/
this is an article from Oregon State University go down to the section where they talk about how Vitamin A plays a crucial role in regulation of gene expression and cellular differentation.
Ithappens,
The problem I've always had with your argument, that vitamin A affects DNA transcription, is that the cells of the hair follicle die and are reproduced, so that even if the DNA of hair cells is affected, new ones take their place eventually.
Let me ask you this: do you tan very easily after Accutane?
my face almost without tan.. but my hands and other places where the sun also get to them are tanning.
ithappens: dude vit a do not leave our body in a month... i was clear from acne for almost a year.. and than it came back.. so i needed some small doses for month to clear it... almost for 10 months.. one with accutane one without... till my body became a mess without repair for almost more then 6-7 months. I'm dry still and red in places but less and less as time goes. my nose is dry! my eyes are dry! my mouth with sores.. and i took tretionin gel for the whole time! so my problem mey be severe then yours!
and my hair is 1/3 its former state and my temples almost receded.
if my hair was my only prob than man.. i would think you may have a point but i think it's better to go with andy and the others.
also man do you have some former education in the field of genetics and biochemistry?.
I learnt it as well as biotechnology, if what you say is true then our body must have jumped few years to the future.. so you think you are 21 years old man in a 40 year old body?!... I think our body should repair any damge done to it by Vit A as time goes and this shit leavs our sistem. I dont think that unmask MPB means that it make it come faster, it means that if you were allready suffering from it then it should become more obvious by the TE!.
but if accutane do make us suffer from mpb as well as all the chicks that get hair loss suffer from aga, the FDA and other countries medical boards should get accutane of the market! it's not worth the medical aspects that some of us get from it!
Hmmm, i think there is slightly more to it than that. MPB is not fully understood. Who is to say that the miniturization that occurs because of the mass fallout will not induce MPB? I remember reading a few articles saying that TE can often be the inducing factor. Time will tell for all of us i guess...
Hmmm, i think there is slightly more to it than that. MPB is not fully understood. Who is to say that the miniturization that occurs because of the mass fallout will not induce MPB? I remember reading a few articles saying that TE can often be the inducing factor. Time will tell for all of us i guess...
My derm explained the "unmasking" to me in the same way it was explained to Popeye above. But Lamarr is also right. And let's remember that cycling hairs out means losing that hair's anagen cycle, which was 2 to 6 years. In other words, you age your hair 2 to 6 years. Perhaps.
Yes i agree, an effective ageing of the scalps apperance by aprox 2-3 years would be about right(i say 2-3 because of loosing hairs that are near the end of life), seens as they say the hairs we loose are coming towards the end of their life anyway. This disregards the unknown accutane factor(s) though...
I agree there is a lot more to this than most of the bullshit our derms feed us. I really don't see how TE brings out MPB to the point where you all of the sudden realize you have it after losing 60% of your hair over six months. The mass diffuse loss just doesn't add up. The one thing I am hopefull for is that while most of the hair that I lose does seem to be on the longer side I also lose some smaller ones too which is a sign that there could be some regrowth. The thing that worries me at the same time though is that even if I get the loss to stop the hair may not grow back cause the hair loss may be scarring due to how accutane screws with the follicles. Does anyone have any insight as to whether the hair loss we're going through is scarring or not cause that is a key factor in regrowth. Scarring alopecia usually results in permanent hair loss.
Now you are making sense but still i'm not realy sure about the vit a in my body..
and about derms lets say that other M.Ds take accutane more seriously then derms like in the army you get a low medical profile or non at all till you clearly finished it and o.k and staff.
but the derms think: whay give you some cheap topical when we can give you accutane.. then whay not let your hair start grow on it's own.. lets push some propecia or minoxidil..
that will get us some money from the company.
The problem with propecia is the side effects and the thing that your hair may recover on it's own but you will atribute it to prop so you will come back every time to get prescription.
Ok, i also don't seem to be tanning on my face, i also hate to admit it but i sometimes use fake tan (helps hide red marks) and for some strange reason i also wondered why my face didn't tan properly, now i have discovered the link...keratin, what's the main component of our skin, hair etc? this protein... Fake tan binds to it, for some reason i have a lack of keratin in my face, so does ithappens and ron...Related to our hairloss? almost certainly, i have no idea how we could possibly rectify the problem though....