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rentstuff said:*** BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS ***😯
I have just found what may cause and REVERSE the Accutane HAIR LOSS!!! READ CAREFULLY, I EXPLAINED IN SIMPLE ENGLISH.
1. ISOTRETINOIN (aka, 13-cis-retinoic acid & brand name is "Accutane", etc.) is anti-cancer and thus is used as a chemo drug. (Take note that most chemo drugs cause hair loss, ok proceed.)
2. Killing cancer can be done in many ways. With Isotretinoin, one of its "action mechanisms" of killing cancer is by increasing the gene expression (or the capability of using DNA to make complex RNA/protein) of a certain enzyme called CASPASE 3
3. If you INCREASE CASPASE 3 gene expression, this may lead to APOPTOSIS ("programmed cell death").
4. Apoptosis = KILLING OF CELLS, which is how the HAIR FOLLICLES are TEMPORARILY affected and "KILLED" as well.
5.
EVIDENCE : "13-cis-retinoic acid (isotretinoin) treatment also... upregulated (meaning it increased) p53 and caspase-3 gene expression in B16F-10 melanoma cells." - from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18652567 13-cis-retinoic acid induces apoptosis by modulating caspase-3, bcl-2, and p53 gene expression and regulates the activation of transcription factors in B16F-10 melanoma cells.
6. SO RECAP: Isotretinoin kills cancer cells by increasing CASPASE 3 gene expression which is INVOLVED IN HAIR LOSS! The problem with apoptosis or "cell death" is that it doesn't necessarily selectively kill only cancer cells, that's why hair is affected. It's not that we are "stressed out" like the above poster was saying.
SOLUTION:
German Study (PDF file) [Edited link out]
PubMed abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17927577
L-carnitine-L-tartrate promotes human hair growth in vitro
[Edited link out]
"caspase 3 and 7, which are known to initiate apoptosis, are DOWN REGULATED (DECREASED!!) at day 2 and day 4 after treatment of HAIR FOLLICLES (HFs) with CARNITINE TARTRATE (CT) compared with vehicle-treated control indicating that CT has an immediate protective effect on HFs to undergo programmed cell death."
ACCUTANE = INCREASES CASPASE 3 = KILLS CELLS = HAIR LOSS
CARNITINE = DECREASES CASPASE 3 = HAIR GROWTH !!!!!!!
GET SOME CARNITINE TARTRATE POWDER NOW (FAQ: No, ACETYL Carnitine WILL NOT WORK and may actually cause hair loss!!!) BEFORE I BUY THEM ALL IM SO HAPPY there is hope! http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-L-Carnitine...12252?&at=0
SO NOW THATS WHY I WAS GROWING HAIR IT REALLY HAS BEEN PROVEN BY SCIENCE WOW.
Ask me if you got confused. Let's HELP EACH OTHER OUT!
Hate to break this to you but this avenue has already been explored and tested. On the old accutane action forum! i have taken l-carnitine orally and topically....makes no difference! we all get regrowth anyway....it just keeps shedding!
We even tested a topical (ACTIV-M) that contains l-carnitine and l-tartrate....
If your interested in CASPASE 3 look into capsaicin (derived from chilli peppers), it has had some success in treating alopecia areata (which is what us with long term hairloss from tane generally have).
I'm afraid the problem is far more complicated than modern science can currently understand!
The reason why it isn't what you have posted in the above thread is that for some people (me included) their side effects don't kick in until weeks/months after they finish accutane. My theory is that pathogens enter the body due to compromised mucus membranes (and/or immune systems) and allow an unbalanced microfloura to establish, thereby sending the immune system into a compromised state.
If you look at all the side effects accutane causes, from blepharitis to seb derm to chrons to chillitis to eczema, there is nearly always a pathogen involvement or if there isn't, the true cause is unknown....
The pathogen inbalance may of even returned to normal, but due how this can affect the immune system, the auto immune/auto inflammatory conditions can continue.
Hate to break this to you but this avenue has already been explored and tested. On the old accutane action forum! i have taken l-carnitine orally and topically....makes no difference! we all get regrowth anyway....it just keeps shedding!
We even tested a topical (ACTIV-M) that contains l-carnitine and l-tartrate....
If your interested in CASPASE 3 look into capsaicin (derived from chilli peppers), it has had some success in treating alopecia areata (which is what us with long term hairloss from tane generally have).
I'm afraid the problem is far more complicated than modern science can currently understand!
Hey Lamarr, how have you been?
1. The commercial product you took, Activ-M is not comparable with the study. Activ-M is in shampoo form, not liposomal transdermal administration.
2. There are a lot of variables as to why it may not have worked on you. How did you apply it topically? What was the vehicle, concentration, dosage, and frequency? Tell us more please.
3. How long did you use the shampoo? THe study was done in 6 months. Did you leave the shampoo overnight?
BTW I'm also researching on Procyanidin B-2 (Grapeseed extract compound), and am taking it as well. I've read about Capsaicin, I'm not certain though how to obtain the active compound online.
Thanks for sharing. 
P.S. What the former accutane patients have is not Alopecia Areata. It is from what I have researched on, a case of chronic Telogen Effluvium, as opposed to acute which does not last more than a year.
I have mentioned it in this thread or forum i'm sure of that, just gets lost amongst all the posts.
I have never stopped shedding it just reduces with the use of all my treatments...
Trust me the l-carnitine will not help stop your shedding. I used activ-m like i said so whatever the vehicle is in that (probably some form of alcohol and/or menthol) ....it isn't as simple as CASPASE 3 though. How can you say activ-m isn't comparible when you don't know what one was used in the study?
I have had access to all the journal sites for years now due to my university course so i have read everything there is. There was even one study on retinoid hairloss specifically that mentions l carinitine.
Grape seed has worked for some and it helps my hair regrow more quickly but doesn't stop the shedding.
If the shedding goes on for longer than a year chances are it is diffuse alopecia areata (if it isn't then it is either thyroid related or a form of MPB)....trust me on that one.
I was first told about accutane inducing diffuse alopecia areata by Professor Tony Chu of the hammersmith hospital in london, i have been under his care for about 3 years now....
1. Active-M is not comparable since it is a shampoo. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
1.1. How much carnitine tartrate is in Active-M? Concentration is crucial part of this study.
1.2. Did you leave it overnight?
1.3. I personally made my own carnitine cream by dissolving it in DMSO initially, which serves as the vehicle, prior to mixing it in a base cream.
2. How long have you taken Active-M?
3. I did shed in all body parts not just my scalp hair, but also lost at one time 1/3 of my thick eyebrows, mustache, armpits, and everything else, which have since regrown. Is that not Alopecia Universalis then?
I can see that in the study they used a liposomal formula....unfortunately you won't be able to replicate that....
"Penetration of CT into the skin, employing a liposomal hair tonic (Henkel, DAsseldorf, Germany) versus a conventional hair tonic was investigated, using the BUS (bovine udder model)."
You may actually replicate it with DMSO and Derma-rolling to enable deeper penetration.
1. Active-M is not comparable since it is a shampoo. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
1.1. How much carnitine tartrate is in Active-M? Concentration is a crucial part of this study.
1.2. Did you leave it overnight?
1.3. I personally made my own carnitine cream by dissolving it in DMSO initially, which serves as the vehicle, prior to mixing it in a base cream.
2. How long have you taken Active-M?
3. I did shed in all body parts not just my scalp hair, but also lost at one time 1/3 of my thick eyebrows, mustache, armpits, and everything else, which have since regrew. Is that not Alopecia Universalis then?
I can see that in the study they used a liposomal formula....unfortunately you won't be able to replicate that....
"Penetration of CT into the skin, employing a liposomal hair tonic (Henkel, DAsseldorf, Germany) versus a conventional hair tonic was investigated, using the BUS (bovine udder model)."
You may actually replicate it with DMSO and Derma-rolling to enable deeper penetration.
1. Active-M is not comparable since it is a shampoo. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
1.1. How much carnitine tartrate is in Active-M? Concentration is a crucial part of this study.
1.2. Did you leave it overnight?
1.3. I personally made my own carnitine cream by dissolving it in DMSO initially, which serves as the vehicle, prior to mixing it in a base cream.
2. How long have you taken Active-M?
3. I did shed in all body parts not just my scalp hair, but also lost at one time 1/3 of my thick eyebrows, mustache, armpits, and everything else, which have since regrew. Is that not Alopecia Universalis then?
I can see that in the study they used a liposomal formula....unfortunately you won't be able to replicate that....
"Penetration of CT into the skin, employing a liposomal hair tonic (Henkel, DAsseldorf, Germany) versus a conventional hair tonic was investigated, using the BUS (bovine udder model)."
Activ-m comes as a serum and a shampoo....i used the serum...i used it for a few months and others used it for longer than that!
Yes losing hair across your entire body is a sign of diffuse alopecia areata....it can affect any part of the body. I lost alot of eye lashes, arm hair and eyebrow hair myself. The arm hair has never grown back the same but doesn't shed like it used to.
I'm not trying to put you off trying this, i'm just trying to save you wasting your time! by all means give it a try....i'm sure it will do no harm.
And remember that study was based on MPB, i doubt most of them have taken accutane and it still works for them....it simply stimulates hair growth....doesn't target the cause of accutane hairloss.
Also please take note of the attached image, and examine the third bar chart on the right of the hair follicle specimen.
Chart E, showing data on numbers of hair shafts in telogen phase decreased through time. This is related to shedding.
I have the full PDF file open on sciencedirect, it may be related to shedding in MPB....but it won't work for what we have. It isn't directly related to shedding anyway, as the carnitine could simply be causing the shed hairs to regrow at a much faster rate (therefore shortening the telogen length but not eliminating it).
You may actually replicate it with DMSO and Derma-rolling to enable deeper penetration.1. Active-M is not comparable since it is a shampoo. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
1.1. How much carnitine tartrate is in Active-M? Concentration is a crucial part of this study.
1.2. Did you leave it overnight?
1.3. I personally made my own carnitine cream by dissolving it in DMSO initially, which serves as the vehicle, prior to mixing it in a base cream.
2. How long have you taken Active-M?
3. I did shed in all body parts not just my scalp hair, but also lost at one time 1/3 of my thick eyebrows, mustache, armpits, and everything else, which have since regrew. Is that not Alopecia Universalis then?
I can see that in the study they used a liposomal formula....unfortunately you won't be able to replicate that...."Penetration of CT into the skin, employing a liposomal hair tonic (Henkel, D¼sseldorf, Germany) versus a conventional hair tonic was investigated, using the BUS (bovine udder model)."
Activ-m comes as a serum and a shampoo....i used the serum...i used it for a few months and others used it for longer than that!
Yes losing hair across your entire body is a sign of diffuse alopecia areata....it can affect any part of the body. I lost alot of eye lashes, arm hair and eyebrow hair myself. The arm hair has never grown back the same but doesn't shed like it used to.
I'm not trying to put you off trying this, i'm just trying to save you wasting your time! by all means give it a try....i'm sure it will do no harm.
Yes I am still curious though as to how long you took it (how long was a few months? sorry I am being pushy lol and how much Carnitine (bound to Tartrate, in mg or % w/v) is in Activ-M shampoo. I am not familiar with the product. I've been googling about it but to no avail.
The study used a very conservative amount of 2% which somehow still yielded significant results. Mine is about 5%.
This is the same pattern followed by the Japanese study on Procyanidin-B2 (from GrapeSeed Extract initially and then skins from Green Apple) wherein they compared 1-2% of B2 with 1-2% Minoxidil. As we all know Minoxidil (Rogaine) is available OTC in 5% concentration, way above the mice study. There are also products available on amazon which go as high as 15%.
2-3 months i used it for, the concentration i am not sure of. I was excited when i first discovered the studies on it though, so i don't blaim you for being excited. Maybe you will get better results than i who knows. I just know it won't fix the underlying problem!
With minoxidil many people believe going higher than about 7-10% is pointless. I know they studied that acitv-m product in varying concentrations and stuck with what is now in activ-m!
2-3 months i used it for, the concentration i am not sure of. I was excited when i first discovered the studies on it though, so i don't blaim you for being excited. Maybe you will get better results than i who knows. I just know it won't fix the underlying problem!
With minoxidil many people believe going higher than about 7-10% is pointless. I know they studied that acitv-m product in varying concentrations and stuck with what is now in activ-m!
Oh man, that was quite short-lived!
The above German study on Carnitine was conducted for 6 months, and that should not even be the case in real life. I am planning to use this for 12 months and only then can I judge if shedding has decreased, but so far, my diffused shedding *SEEMED* to have decreased in my case after two weeks. This could very well be placebo but I do count LOL. I used to get 10-20 hair strands at every run of my fingers through my scalp but now it's 2-3. And I want to believe it but we will see in the coming weeks.
In addition, I also believe Chart E on Telogen hairs do hold merit in our case since telogen is telogen, i.e., shedding, regardless.
BTW, I agree with you that this alone may not fix the problem. We have to look up every possible avenue relevant to how Isotretinoin affects hair loss. Let me know what else is there besides CASP3.
I saw the Activ-M shampoo and it's worth 48$ a bottle. Wow that's too much. I got this PURE powder for only 25$.
Hey Lamarr,
I am one of the original posters on this thread and started shedding right about the time you did. You have always seemed like one of the most knowledgeable posters so I'd like to ask you a question. In cases of typical alopecia areata where there are bald spots on the head, it is said that hairs miniaturize and eventually there is a bald spot. Then it often times recovers and the miniaturized hairs start become thicker and turn into terminal hairs. Often times this pattern repeats itself with more chronic cases. Do you know if there is a similar pattern going on with the diffuse alopecia areata? Do you think we are having a lot of hairs miniaturized and then recovering back to terminal hairs, but succeptable to shedding again? The reason I ask is because I have shed a lot of miniaturized hairs, and I see a lot of miniaturized hairs when I examine the hairs poking out in my head, but after 3.5 years of shedding my hair is still thick and not much noticeably different. Let me know what you think, I really appreciate it.
It may be safe to assume that Lamarr's Carnitine Tartrate experience was undesirable (I hope you try it for another round, Lamarr for at least 12 mos.) because of the following:
1. He used a commercial shampoo product called "Activ M" which claims to have Carnitine Tartrate. It is crucial to know how much really is Carnitine in that shampoo, but since it is a commercial item, it most likely has only very minute amounts. The study used a leave-on overnight topical and not a shampoo. [Edited link out]
2. Lamarr prematurely ended his usage of Carnitine, despite it being in commercially prepared serum and shampoo form, after only 2-3 months. The clinical trial was performed in a span of 6 months (this timeframe has to be at least doubled in real life practices).
3. The concentration of Carnitine used in the study is 2% in liposomal form. I have yet to verify whether or not the shampoo is in liposomal form. It is most likely not.
4. Lamarr, I would fervently hope that you would re-do your carnitine experience by purchasing a pure powder if one is available in your area, and mix it yourself with the proper vehicle while using CIT (collagen induction therapy) dermaroller device.
Thanks very much and best of health to all
rentstuff said:It may be safe to assume that Lamarr's Carnitine Tartrate experience was undesirable (I hope you try it for another round, Lamarr for at least 12 mos.) because of the following:1. He used a commercial shampoo product called "Activ M" which claims to have Carnitine Tartrate. It is crucial to know how much really is Carnitine in that shampoo, but since it is a commercial item, it most likely has only very minute amounts. The study used a leave-on overnight topical and not a shampoo. [Edited link out]
2. Lamarr prematurely ended his usage of Carnitine, despite it being in commercially prepared serum and shampoo form, after only 2-3 months. The clinical trial was performed in a span of 6 months (this timeframe has to be at least doubled in real life practices).
3. The concentration of Carnitine used in the study is 2% in liposomal form. I have yet to verify whether or not the shampoo is in liposomal form. It is most likely not.
4. Lamarr, I would fervently hope that you would re-do your carnitine experience by purchasing a pure powder if one is available in your area, and mix it yourself with the proper vehicle while using CIT (collagen induction therapy) dermaroller device.
Thanks very much and best of health to all
I didn't use the shampoo read my posts dude....it's a serum! there are TWO products by activ-m containing the l-carnitine.
So let me to reiterate that, i used a leave in product....left in over night.
The treatments i use, including low level laser therapy, essential oils and mid potency steroids keep my hair pretty good. I'm not willing to stop these or add anything else.
L carnitine in a liposomal formula may work, but anything in liposomes is likely to work better than its non liposomal counterpart. I'm not willing to dermaroll my head every day (unless it regrows all of my hair or totally stops shedding) ontop of all the other things i do for my accutane side effects, i already waste about 45 minutes of my day applying topicals and sitting under lasers!
Hey Lamarr,I am one of the original posters on this thread and started shedding right about the time you did. You have always seemed like one of the most knowledgeable posters so I'd like to ask you a question. In cases of typical alopecia areata where there are bald spots on the head, it is said that hairs miniaturize and eventually there is a bald spot. Then it often times recovers and the miniaturized hairs start become thicker and turn into terminal hairs. Often times this pattern repeats itself with more chronic cases. Do you know if there is a similar pattern going on with the diffuse alopecia areata? Do you think we are having a lot of hairs miniaturized and then recovering back to terminal hairs, but succeptable to shedding again? The reason I ask is because I have shed a lot of miniaturized hairs, and I see a lot of miniaturized hairs when I examine the hairs poking out in my head, but after 3.5 years of shedding my hair is still thick and not much noticeably different. Let me know what you think, I really appreciate it.
Yeah that is exactly it, although from all the people i have been in contact with it would appear that it can cause permanent recession of the temples, even if you weren't ever going to suffer from male pattern baldness.
Seriously though i still think it is possible for it to stop on its own, even after 4-5 years. Look at Gayle porter.....she was totally bald from AA for 5 years and it's starting to grow back completely now....
Personally i think the best combo for most people will be minoxidil and a topical steroid. Many people with long term tane hairloss say how much minox helps, but then the hair regrown with it can also shed....so the topical steroid will help stop or slow down this process...
Lamarr- I have a question for you, if you don't mind. It is kind of a broad question, but how does one know if he/she has hair loss due to accutane? I ask this because I find about 10, maybe 15 hairs on my pillow every morning or every other morning. My parents keep trying to tell me its because I don't shower everyday anymore and its normal hair loss. Then again, I have a buzz cut so I have no idea what's coming out in the shower. There is never any hair in my hand.
Thanks.
How long can diffuse alopecia areata last for? I took accutane for 9 days back in November and I began shedding constantly. I immediately discontinued the tane but have been shedding nonstop ever since. Would Propecia be a way to combat the diffuse alopecia areata or am i just screwed? Cant believe how taking a medicine for only 9 days has affected my life so much and will seem to affect it for the rest of it
Texasboy- I would not use propecia if you had that type of reaction to Accutane in 9 days. Some Accutane victims have been okay with it, but it is only a temp fix and well you can read the link
Shoes- As far as L-Car yes it is known for some to be low in this, however all of the stories I have read and people I have spoke too been taking it for myalgias that were developed from Accutane. I have never heard of it for hairloss, but who knows it might work for some. Anyway, here is a link to the study on l- car and joint pain.
( I would highly suggest before taking l-car orally to have your labs tested first, as I believe it can cause issues if you ingest too much. I personally was border line and took some directed by my physican and I don't think I noticed any hairloss improving. Not discrediting the poster as it may work for some)
Fredq- Lamarr will answer you soon, It is really hard to say Fred, I mean in reality 10-12 hairs isn't much and probably considered normal, will it get worse that is the hard part to answer as for some like Lamarr and I our hairloss came After our course was over....
Lamarr I was gonna email you There was a question for you in the Roseca pinned thread on plaquenil and light therapy I wonder ur opinion.....Thanks**
I didn't use the shampoo read my posts dude....it's a serum! there are TWO products by activ-m containing the l-carnitine.
All right dude, I'm just saying... because you used it for only 2 months, it doesn't take effect that fast. Moreover, the product you used is a commercial item which does not disclose carnitine concentration. Carnitine by itself is quite expensive.
BTW, you don't have to use dermaroller if you are dissolving Carnitine Tartrate in DMSO. DMSO by itself is greatly penetrated through the skin, it is what most MPB patients use to make their own creams if you skim the HairLoss forums elsewhere. At any rate, I bid you good luck with your current regimen. I guess I'll be the only one to test out carnitine. I'll make sure that I use at least 5% w/v CT everyday.
I personally was border line and took some directed by my physican and I don't think I noticed any hairloss improving.
Hi, oli girl. The biggest mistake in treating hair loss is expecting a quick result and discontinuing too early. Hair cycles are a year long process.
With Carnitine, all you need is no more than 1 gram a day for oral administration. Any more and it will create ROS (Reactive Oxygen Species) in your system which is probably what you have experienced. If you do insist on taking more than 1g/day then you would need to add an antioxidant like Vitamin C or Grape Seed Extract. Do not take Lipoic Acid or IP6. They cause hair loss too.
Best of health to all.
-rentstuff
rentstuff- I am not doubting that it is helping you, and it may help others. I personally took it for myalgias due to accutane and just stating I didn't notice hair growth. I didn't have a problem with it, I was letting people know they shouldn't take a lot and maybe have thier labs checked for low L-car before supplementing with it esspecially if they have more then just hairloss. Good Luck I hope it works for you and who knows it may help someone who just has hairloss 
My hair situation is under control and though it's not the same texture or as much as I had before I am okay w/ it now as hairloss is a minor issue for me compared to my other issues.
I didn't use the shampoo read my posts dude....it's a serum! there are TWO products by activ-m containing the l-carnitine.
All right dude, I'm just saying... because you used it for only 2 months, it doesn't take effect that fast. Moreover, the product you used is a commercial item which does not disclose carnitine concentration. Carnitine by itself is quite expensive.
BTW, you don't have to use dermaroller if you are dissolving Carnitine Tartrate in DMSO. DMSO by itself is greatly penetrated through the skin, it is what most MPB patients use to make their own creams if you skim the HairLoss forums elsewhere. At any rate, I bid you good luck with your current regimen. I guess I'll be the only one to test out carnitine. I'll make sure that I use at least 5% w/v CT everyday.
I personally was border line and took some directed by my physican and I don't think I noticed any hairloss improving.
Hi, oli girl. The biggest mistake in treating hair loss is expecting a quick result and discontinuing too early. Hair cycles are a year long process.
With Carnitine, all you need is no more than 1 gram a day for oral administration. Any more and it will create ROS (Reactive Oxygen Species) in your system which is probably what you have experienced. If you do insist on taking more than 1g/day then you would need to add an antioxidant like Vitamin C or Grape Seed Extract. Do not take Lipoic Acid or IP6. They cause hair loss too.
Best of health to all.
-rentstuff
I have personally found if something is going to work for accutane hairloss, it works pretty rapidly. The reason i say this is because Alopecia areata does tend to have a fast response to treatments if they are going to work.
The shedding that we all experience is due to the immune system (T cells specifically) attacking the stem cell bundle at the bottom of the hair follicle. When you switch off this immune response the shedding stops VERY quickly. Yes regrowth can take longer, but if a treatment is going to work, it will stop the shedding within (at the most) 2 months.
For instance when i use topical steroids, my shedding reduces a great deal after about a week. Regrowth is a different storey but you should see signs after 2 months.
Lamarr- I have a question for you, if you don't mind. It is kind of a broad question, but how does one know if he/she has hair loss due to accutane? I ask this because I find about 10, maybe 15 hairs on my pillow every morning or every other morning. My parents keep trying to tell me its because I don't shower everyday anymore and its normal hair loss. Then again, I have a buzz cut so I have no idea what's coming out in the shower. There is never any hair in my hand.Thanks.
Fred that is a tough question my friend....I would say keep an eye on things and start using a salacytic acid based shampoo and occasionally something like nizoral.
Do you have any iritation or redness?