DATABASED - One quick question: How do your recommendations concerning zinc apply to teenage acne?

Just say no! 😀 If you don't normalize your sleep, the zinc probably won't help anyway. Probably nobody would look too much askance at a teenager taking <=15mg of zinc per day.

Teenaged acne is usually blamed on "hormones", but the Trobriand Islanders had 0 acne among their teenagers. I don't think it's a coincidence that the age of onset of acne corresponds well with the age that teenagers start:

 

• Getting to sleep less regularly and for fewer hours.
• Getting to make more of their own food choices (yum, give me the fructose-laden apples/Coke/whatever every time!)
• Getting fewer hours of outdoor light exposure (more hats, sunglasses, indoor vids, etc.)

 

Ok, thanks for the response!

I have been trying to live a healthier lifestyle, and have recently made changes in areas similar to those you described above. It's good to hear that there is some hope of controlling my acne through building healthy eating and sleeping habits.

Saedran James

What do you think about Vit B3 and B5 supplement in high doses, such as other people on this forum are doing with great success, ?

Try and see. IME, my response to dairy is fairly consistent with the idea that it's just another sugar (lactose) problem.

I have a feeling that a lot of water helps when eating too much sugar. This kind of bad feeling that can be helped with water also occurs for me after drinking > half a glass of milk. Milk sugar seems to be just as bad as any other sugar.

And guys...stop asking databased about zinc, he explained that a million times already. If your acne is bothering you, I'm sure it is bothering you enough that you read a few pages of his posts. He doesn't even recommend it anymore...even the title of the forum post says "zinc-less".

And yes, this diet truly works. I'm still not 100% doing it, because my discipline is not the best. But even when stopping *almost* all sugar, going to bed at the wrong time and getting only ~15min of sun every day, I get significantly less acne. I just remembered how it was a few months ago, when I was drinking lots and lots of juice every day. You somehow start to assume that you will never get rid of acne because seemingly "everything" causes it. That's just because almost anything really does contain sugar nowadays. Remember that milk products contain sugar too (lactose)

Blame the food industry or our natural craving for sugar. I drank juice because I was convinced that it was healthy. It has vitamins and is made of fruits...so c'mon?? Lol ..

Follow databased instructions to the letter...it is not enough to just go to sleep at the same time. (for most of us anyway.) If you truly want to do something about your acne, give his plan a chance and follow his sleep AND sugar AND vitamin b instructions to the letter.

Just wanted to emphasize this..., because I know myself, and there were times when I would have dismissed this regiment with a feeble, 1-2 days try and moved on.

edit: And I just wanted to add another unrelated thing: I don't believe in puberty as a behavioural problem. Puberty problems occur because of wrong parental education and the dominant social acceptance with it. (much like women hysteria in the 1900's, look it up) I never caused problems for my parents when in puberty. Neither did any of my sisters and brothers, and neither did any of my friends. We never drank alcohol, smoked or did anything so commonly associated with "that's just how teenagers are". Guess what, we turned out fine.

1 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=...cfA&cad=rja

Maybe a cold shower can help the melatonin prodction!

2 btw,

I know you have said that you don't think that milk products can do any harm unless it has sugars in it. But what do you think of their explanation? http://www.acnemilk.com/the_no_milk_acne_diet

They'r talkin bout hormons etc

3 Tried this?

http://supplementspot.com/-c-4/glisodin-bi...CFYYKfAodXiQv0w

4 How did it go with your tomatosauce experiment, for lycopene?

5 Do you have any thoughts on a biphasic sleep pattern, we are actually more adapt to sleep two times a day through evolution, as all(?) other mammals do that also. Before artificially light i know in the middle ages it was normal to sleep when the sun set, then sleep for example to midnight and be awake 1-3hours, take a chat with your neighboor, have sex or just have a sort of peaceful thinking in your sleeping place waiting to sleep again till sun rise.

The time you are awake between the sleeping fases can be adjusted as it fits you. But at least I think biphasic sleep can be interesting and see how it can apply to acne.

Despite the fact that the days are short, cold, and overcast in NY, I have been testing this hypothesis to the best of my ability. I won't go into exhaustive detail, but I'll just say that this "regimen" (or my adulteration of it) is very obviously beneficial for me.

And for that, databased, I owe you a Coke.

However, I am not convinced that I will be able to maintain my diet and sleep schedule, and I am certain that I will not be able to get enough sunlight in my eyes to truly do the hypothesis justice. In effect, I will not truly be able to follow the Zinc-less Zinc Regimen in its entirety untilawellasome other time. I'm sure you all understand how difficult this regimen is...

...but now for the selfish part: I still want results.

So I looked into a relatively untapped avenue of the Trobriand Islanders' diet: the yams.

just a couple days ago I started a lycopene experiment, based on wondering if the particular "yams" the acne-free Trobriand Islanders eat (which they eat even more often than I eat at McDonald's!) might not happen to be particularly concentrated with lycopene. Lycopene appears able to elevate superoxide dismutase levels like melatonin can, though I have no idea if it's as large an effect or not (or appears when/where needed to prevent acne).

Mmm. Yams. So I did a quick search.

Most notable reference:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Finally-w...ea-t276489.html

Less so:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Zeru-s-ac...html&hl=yam

And there are perhaps two other references on the site, hardly worth looking at. The wild yam extract/oil seems to be marketed toward women for "hormonal benefits" or some such nonsense, and initially (as a male of the species), that scares me. Kind of like when the soymilk carton tells me that it's great for women 'cause it has phytoestrogens. Bit of a turn-off. I couldn't find any real information about the extract, though. But that may only be a testament to my research skills.

But enough of that. Anyone think it's worth trying?

would anyone be able to inform me on whether old-fashioned quaker oats are ok to eat while taking zinc and vitamin B complex??

in other words, are they inhibitors preventing zinc from being effective or not?

also whether canned tuna, and whole wheat pasta are bad as well??

Hi all acne.org members, i read from somewhere that zinc can increase the level of testosterone, but again i read that high level of testosterone can actually increase sebum production, which causes acne. can anyone explain this?

I hope that's not true ;( I just took 25 mg of zinc last night. I had the craziest dream ever.

Well, you are not the only one out there with this problem, there are reviews that peoples are getting the same prob. i guess that is the side effect of taking zinc what i hope is that it won't worsen up my acne, which did happen for some people.

Looking for guinea pigs that are:

a) getting regular, at least OK-quality, sleep

b) have been taking Vitamin D for more than 3 months

c) are adults with acne

The experiment is to try taking "Iron-Free Super Nutrition Calcium Blend" 3 times per day. The point is the boron it contains. This pill also contains calcium, zinc, copper, selenium, so you would need to stop taking any of those in pill form. You would also need to be taking a Vitamin B complex, either the B-50 version (any brand, I suspect they're all the same) twice a day or the B-100 version twice per day.

It initially seems like the boron (which I first obtained by ingesting a rather large amount of seedless California grapes twice per day) is letting me live acne-free in winter without having to work so hard at getting bright lights in my eyes all day long. Haven't run the reverse experiment (stopping the boron to see acne return) because I really want to stay clear during the holidays.

If anyone tries that, I would be very interested to hear the results, positive or negative.

As always, searching for a way to be acne-free without really having to work at it. )

It initially seems like the boron (which I first obtained by ingesting a rather large amount of seedless California grapes twice per day) is letting me live acne-free in winter without having to work so hard at getting bright lights in my eyes all day long. Haven't run the reverse experiment (stopping the boron to see acne return) because I really want to stay clear during the holidays.

If anyone tries that, I would be very interested to hear the results, positive or negative.

As always, searching for a way to be acne-free without really having to work at it. 🙂

I'm afraid I'm not a good guinea pig, but this is quite a fascinating idea. I'm guessing you've run across this in your adventures, whether or not it's worth much thought.

I'm guessing you've run across this in your adventures, whether or not it's worth much thought.

Thanks for that link, hadn't seen that. Of course, there's literally no food/supplement/cream that somebody somewhere doesn't believe cured them. But I suspect some of their beliefs are right, since some people will be mainly short of one or the other of the many chemicals that have to come together to make ZSOD and the other anti-oxidants that I believe prevent the immune system from inducing acne. IMHO...

I think you should give up your work, family and social life, and use all your time to find out exactly what we can do to prevent acne. I know you have been studying and working with this for a long time, and have changed some views since your first posts, and I think thats good, however, if we could speed up your process to get to the "final solution" faster, I think that'd be good!

Edit: Cant you tell us a short about ZSOD, and which other antioxidants you mean?

Btw, Vitamin B3 and B5, especially last one have helped a lot of people, do you think these vitamins just play a part in the ZSOD production, or does it exist other chemical routes to prevent acne also?

I have just started taking vit d but would like to try the vitamin pill in 3 month time.Where can you buy the pills?

Databased is it possible that ibs is caused by not getting enough sun like acne?

I have just started taking vit d but would like to try the vitamin pill in 3 month time.Where can you buy the pills?

I usually buy from iherb.com because the price/service has overall been good to me. But many people live near some store or vitamin shop that either has or can order most anything along these lines.

is it possible that ibs is caused by not getting enough sun like acne?

IBS is one of these fringe diagnoses that is an ongoing judgment call for physicians. So, let's put it this way, it's sure possible that a lot of people who believe they have IBS could eliminate or improve their symptoms by living outdoors at the equator. In my experience, the effect on digestion of just a single 12-hour day spent in summer sun is not subtle; I can eat vastly more "troublesome" foods without a single symptom when living in that light. Since I believe most acne comes from a failure to digest crucial nutrients, I definitely believe some forms of indigestion (whether IBS would count or not, I don't know) go right along with acne -- two different symptoms of the same cause.

Cant you tell us a short about ZSOD, and which other antioxidants you mean?

Btw, Vitamin B3 and B5, especially last one have helped a lot of people, do you think these vitamins just play a part in the ZSOD production, or does it exist other chemical routes to prevent acne also?

Not sure exactly what you want to know. Yes, there are other chemicals that remove superoxide anions, and Vitamin B has a role in some of them. Some are manufactured by cells, like superoxide dismutase is. Others are downstream products of melatonin as it gets metabolized (yet another reason melatonin is so important to avoiding acne).

=======

As the days go by, it continues to look like adding boron to the mix is letting me not have to work very hard at getting bright light. I think there was one zit that I could see for 100% sure in the last few weeks, and this in the midst of the Christmas orgy of pie, ice cream, Coke, cookies, cinnamon rolls, fruit bread, candy, etc. Although it's certainly true my diet was not stable while using boron, it's hard to see how it varied in any way that would make acne less likely.

I should mention again, more is probably not better with boron. Too much boron may be associated with reversible hair loss. I believe the particular pill I pointed out (Super Nutrition Iron-Free Calcium Blend) contains about everything that boron could be suspected of depleting, except Vitamin B.

Although I would not take more than 3mg/day of boron, most days I've been getting 1-2mg. If I stay nearly 100% clear (in the face of, let's face it, a diet where I'm really not trying much to avoid acne), then I'll try dropping back (and making at least a modest effort to cut back on sugars) to look for the minimum dose that works. If I could make myself eat large quantities of leafy green vegetables (which few people can), I could possibly get the same amount of boron without a pill.

Of course, I've only been at the boron for the biggest share of a month. Still, I can't see what else I've changed except making my diet worse, which usually doesn't help at all. 😀

Thanks for information.

Damn. So now boron is the new thing. You should maybe make a new thread called The boron regimen. I still think its quite strange this works EXTREMELY well for you, and are still very unkown for threating acne, as boron supplementing is quite an easy strategy, and if it worked so well as it does for you, it should been "on the market". Maybe it is an individual thing?

However, I am very excited about your results, as I have a belief that your work and thoughts around acne have a high value.

Anyway, do you have any theories on how boron has an affect against acne? Is it the same like Melatonin?

Damn. So now boron is the new thing. You should maybe make a new thread called The boron regimen. I still think its quite strange this works EXTREMELY well for you, and are still very unkown for threating acne, as boron supplementing is quite an easy strategy, and if it worked so well as it does for you, it should been "on the market". Maybe it is an individual thing?

To put it in perspective, my hypothesis is that half the cause of acne is failing to digest the nutrients you need to manufacture the anti-oxidants you need to clip the inflammatory response before it turns into acne. If you're not able to fix that digestion problem (primarily by living with your eyes in sunlight, possibly sunlight that contains UVA), then you can try to slam down supplements to increase the odds of getting enough of those nutrients digested. One problem being to figure out what-all nutrients are relevant.

So, it shouldn't be strange at all that nobody is marketing a boron pill to cure acne, since I claim it doesn't cure acne (anymore than selenium cures acne) -- it just may be one of the basket of nutrients that isn't getting digested whose absence contributes to acne (Vitamin B, zinc, selenium, tryptophan being other plausible members of that basket).

I'm just recently pointing out that boron may be one of the (many) relevant nutrients that aren't getting digested in acne sufferers, since it seems to be making it easier for me to avoid acne during the winter months (when I am most definitely taking the full plate of supplements and not expecting to be acne-free if I don't sleep long/regularly and cut back on the worst carbs). Or you could just skip the boron supplement and replace a big part of your diet with leafy greens (and hope the farmer was putting enough sodium borate in the fertilizer).

Anyway, do you have any theories on how boron has an affect against acne? Is it the same like Melatonin?

No idea, though I'm sure it's nothing like melatonin, and I'm certain it won't cure anybody's acne if their melatonin cycle is screwed up. Since boron research is just starting to heat up, I'm sure there will be many interesting new facts about its function in the body within a few years. As with other micronutrients (like zinc and selenium), it probably has only a secondary role, as a catalyst or inhibitor of more primary reactions.

Hi databased,

I have 32 years old (men) and I always have minor acne, the last 5 years until today I have acne around mouth and nose only but I always have 3 or 4 pimples each week or two weeks.

I do bodybuilding and eat well, clean and take magnesium and others suplements, but I never took zinc and no multivitamin. Enzimes yes.

I have checking this thread for some time. I believe the light of sun is very important to control the melatonin cycle. I have tried to get more sun, since I working in room and I didnt have very good light.

I only want to show that since I added SEAWATER to my regimen, in around 2 weeks I am completely clean, I am 3 weeks with no pimples and keep in mind these days I eat very bad, a lot of fat and highers ig carbs.

I read the seawater is very good for health and you get ALL the minerals essencial in the life, since our cells arrive form sea you have the plenty of minerals and in the correct way to assimilate. I only take 15ml from wake up and 15ml before to sleep.

I got from Biomaris 750ml 7a. I found one link ( http://www.internationpharmacy.com/seawater-biomaris-sakai-minerals-750ml-p-13548.html?osCsid=6a92a3bb6b9ca3442c7b926ed8dfc847 )

You can check these links too:

( http://www.oceanplasma.org/documents/therapiese.html#Eczema )

( http://www.plasmaquinton.com/ )

I know a lot of people get the water directly from beach and leave off 1 day at sun, and take normally.

I believe it is interesting, maybe the seawater is providing me all the minerals.

That's great you found something that works for you!

Seawater certainly contains minerals, but not much of most of them except for salt, potassium, sulfur, magnesium, calcium, and bromine. Of course, if you draw it from the wrong place, you may also get a nice dose of lead and some heavy metals. Drinking seawater has been used on some skin diseases, notably atopic eczema. Salt is antiseptic (taken externally, at least).

I read the seawater is very good for health and you get ALL the minerals essencial in the life

That part's certainly not true. When our ancestors lived in the sea, they didn't absorb their nutrients from the sea, but got them from eating other things. It would be like saying we live surrounded by air, so air must have all the vital nutrients we need to be healthy. Ooops, somebody already believes that.

That's great you found something that works for you!

Seawater certainly contains minerals, but not much of most of them except for salt, potassium, sulfur, magnesium, calcium, and bromine. Of course, if you draw it from the wrong place, you may also get a nice dose of lead and some heavy metals. Drinking seawater has been used on some skin diseases, notably atopic eczema. Salt is antiseptic (taken externally, at least).

 

I read the seawater is very good for health and you get ALL the minerals essencial in the life

That part's certainly not true. When our ancestors lived in the sea, they didn't absorb their nutrients from the sea, but got them from eating other things. It would be like saying we live surrounded by air, so air must have all the vital nutrients we need to be healthy. Ooops, somebody already believes that. 😀

 

Hi,

I forgot to comment I was taking 1g himalayan salt since 6 months ago with my 3 most important meals and I didnt have the face clean!. So, it is not for the salt or minerals.

I think you are wrong. I put part of book I read (DolphinDiet).

"marine soup contained and has, I repeat, nucleic acids, DNA, RNA, essential amino

proteins, fats, carbohydrates, vitamins and all minerals in the table

periodically(118), as organic, bioavailable and alkaline, well integrated plankton

by phyto-zooplankton and fish eggs and larvae, carbon chains and material

partivulado."

About the heavy metal "Thanks to the phenomenon of biocenosis during coexistence

Community of phyto and zooplankton, chemical minerals are transformed into

organic, as do plants on the floor globe"

Nicholas Perricone mentions in his book "Health, Beauty and Longevity"

items <<material radioactive heavy metal>> that the seawater is

able to inactivate, in fact, does not explain why this is, but suggests that the

phytoplankton chemicals are capable of doing the work of the dechelation.

Sadly the book is written on spanish, it is very interesting. The author say 500ml day of seawater is the way to go, in the first steps isotonics and later hipertonic.

I only take 30ml day, and for now I drink for biomaris that it is filtered for more security.

I dont know why, but I supposes the sea water provides me the full range of minerals and you forget its biovalible and alkaline (ph is very important to control). Comercial multivitaminics are non-biovalible or not totally and inorganic.

Regards.

I live in arizona and the sun shines for like 95% of the days of the year through my window, does it work too if i stay close to the window?

Well you know what ive been having a feeling me isolating had something to do with my acne, since in the last 2 years i started developing acne and i have also stopped going out very much at all and its gotten worse.. i barely go outside..especially in day light, im depressed, i dont eat right, i go to sleep late and wake up late.. my new years resolution is to change all of this so i better get to it.

how about full spectrum lightbulbs?

these can be purchased fairly cheaply and claim to emulate sunlight at noon time... i know its not perfect but my lifestyle doesn't really allow for going outside as often as i would like.

how about full spectrum lightbulbs?

I use them. They are better than nothing, but they are nothing like sunlight, IME.

When marketing says they emulate sunlight, they really mean they make the colors of things more "true". Compared to sunlight, they:

• Are much less bright.
• Have peaks in only a few frequencies.
• Have very little UVA.

I can't tell whether the full-spectrums are any better for affecting digestion than normal bulbs. The Japanese study on light and digestion used normal fluorescents, but the subjects stuck their heads in a lightbox, so they got more brightness then you are likely to get in a normal setting.

i barely go outside..especially in day light, im depressed, i dont eat right, i go to sleep late and wake up late.. my new years resolution is to change all of this so i better get to it.

Do it! IMHO, depression, sleep, and acne are all connected. A lousy sleep pattern can contribute to depression. And acne pushes most people to stay home and sit in the (relative) dark. It's a vicious cycle. I was just reading an article on improving Alzheimer's treatment via non-drug means. One expert said if there was anything he could change in all such facilities, it would be to make them brighter. Brighter light helped normalize sleep and decrease behavior problems. We evolved to get these two gigantic daily environmental signals of very bright days and very dark nights, and it should not be unreasonable to expect problems after screwing those signals up for years at a time.

I live in arizona and the sun shines for like 95% of the days of the year through my window, does it work too if i stay close to the window?

I never got much benefit sitting next to a window. Maybe there's just not a big enough field of vision contributing intensity. Maybe UVA is a significant part of why sunlight is effective and glass is too good at blocking UVA. Whatever the reason, I never got any drastic benefit from sunlight by trying to sit next to windows. YMMV.