So lectins = bad?

I just read on wiki that aloe vera has lectins in it.

I soaked some nuts last nut (almonds, brazil nuts and walnuts) and the water turned brown and disgusting and I can actually see small particles. I"m going to dry them with a fan and then on a low heat roast them for a few minutes.

1. Do you guys eat them straight away?

2. How long do you store them for?

Virastop has proteases right? This could be helpful. Or else, what other digestive enzyme supplements are people taking?

I soaked some nuts last nut (almonds, brazil nuts and walnuts) and the water turned brown and disgusting and I can actually see small particles. I"m going to dry them with a fan and then on a low heat roast them for a few minutes.

1. Do you guys eat them straight away?

2. How long do you store them for?

Virastop has proteases right? This could be helpful. Or else, what other digestive enzyme supplements are people taking?

You should rinse them a few times during the soaking process. See the links for information in previous posts. And there've been some other supplements named in previous posts.

This study on complementary foods is about phytates, but that's another thing we are trying to eliminate with traditional methods like soaking, sprouting and fermenting.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal...=1&SRETRY=0

Rye, wheat, and buckwheat are high in phytase so adding them to low phytase foods like oats aids in reducing phytates. But you need to use buckwheat or rye that has not been heat treated or the enzymes will be dead, so you can't use kasha or toasted buckwheat for example.

And on that note, you would need to ferment anything that's been heated, such as most oatmeal and other flakes. Whole foods sells barley and rye flakes, but I have no idea how they are made.

Regarding the insulin theory of acne, it explains why sourdough bread has a lower insulin index. WGA is insulinotropic, thus inhibiting it will inhibit its effects on your pancreas.

If people want to still try eating something that resembles good bread, I suggest traditional leavening and then using spelt instead of wheat. Apparently modern wheat is grown so that it contains more protein (lectins are proteins) compared to ancient, and spelt supposedly contains less protein. Either that or use white cake flour, perhaps. The longer the fermentation the better.

Yeah, I do wish they'd do these studies on breads made with longer fermentation besides sourdough. I don't care much for sourdough. Before instant yeast, the yeast and half the flour were left overnight to ferment before making the bread. Both to not waste the flour in case the yeast is dead and because the yeast came in dry cakes that had to be soaked themselves. If you have a bakery that makes 'artisan' bread, they might use this method. It's called the sponge method, but now days if you search recipe sites for 'no knead' bread, you find recipes made with the same method. There's also the 5 minutes a day method that involves keeping dough in the fridge for up to 2 weeks (when it becomes pretty much like sourdough) as you use hunks at a time to make a loaf whenever you want it.

You could also try other flours like yucca/tapioca or GF blends which tend to contain yucca. Most other grains make very heavy dense breads which is why we've used wheat all this time, but from the yucca buns I saw the cook on Simply Deliciouso make, yucca makes light fluffy bread.

I was just reading about it on their site/blog and this 5-minutes a day method sounds great. It's just like something I'd been meaning to experiment with. I wanted to make some starter or something to keep in the fridge and make bread, flat breads on a griddle. in particular. And here's a method for gluten free naan made in an iron skillet on the stovetop. Here's the basic GF dough recipe.They have a second book that draws from traditional breads around the world, possibly using other grains that people used before our wheat spread there. And apparently a third coming out on flat breads.

Ramble: On this page there's a recipe for sourdough noodles and a gluten free bread. In the notes it mentions:

Some people react to guar gum, so xantham is better. If you also react to that, try pectin. If still no go, try the bread without it, it will just be a little heavier.

So thats what the xantham gum is for. And I thought of pectin while doing some of this research, but I don't remember exactly what I was reading. What does pectin do in bread? Break down or bind with something? It is what thickens in fruit things like jams and jellies. Oranges for example are high pectin fruits and all you do to make marmalade is cook the cut up fruit and juice with sugar and it thickens and turns to jam. Ok, Xantham gum and guar gum bind stuff together in place of gluten. Note how cakes and soda bread are crumbly because they don't have as much gluten as bread. Gelatin and agar agar can also be used. And agar agar is made of red algae. And red algae is a source of one of the hard to get glyconutrients.

This study on complementary foods is about phytates, but that's another thing we are trying to eliminate with traditional methods like soaking, sprouting and fermenting.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal...=1&SRETRY=0

Rye, wheat, and buckwheat are high in phytase so adding them to low phytase foods like oats aids in reducing phytates. But you need to use buckwheat or rye that has not been heat treated or the enzymes will be dead, so you can't use kasha or toasted buckwheat for example.

And on that note, you would need to ferment anything that's been heated, such as most oatmeal and other flakes. Whole foods sells barley and rye flakes, but I have no idea how they are made.

Is buckwheat porridge fine (boiled)? I don't need to soak buckwheat grains before boiling?

Sourdough would have more lectins then, but then they still all have carbs *sad*

Linking to another thread that contains a lot of research on enzymes and probiotics breaking down proteins. And it's mostly about certain common lactobactilli strains along with enzymes in your saliva, which is why you need to chew your food. Many of the lactobactilli are in my probiotic which I use when I make yogurt, which I add when soaking/fermenting legumes, oats, etc. http://www.acne.org/messageboard/enzymes-t259933.html

And remember, in addition to fermentation to reduce anti-nutrients there's also specific carbs that bind up lectins. What I think might be really handy is for someone to use previously linked to charts of lectins and the sugars that bind them to find what foods contain those sugars so we have a list of complimentary foods. And I wouldn't be surprised that many traditional food combinations followed for centuries contained such combos.

Here's a list of 'eight essential sugars' (glyconutrients) and food sources:

http://heartspring.net/glyconutrient_sources.html

And finally, another thought on perhaps another way we are genetically predisposed to acne. Throughout the articles I've read on this, there's some mention of blood type and that some of us are tolerant to of some of these lectins. The blood-type and specific carb diets are at least partially about lectins. And there's that supplement I linked to earlier that has a different formula for each blood type, presumably to address the lectins that blood type tends to be intolerant of. And I've read that people who adopted grain-based diets earlier seem to have done some adapting because grains are less problematic in people from the Mediterranean region as opposed to northern European types.

Here's an interesting statement about glucosamine:

There are no major food sources of glucosamine, so people who want to take it must take supplements. Most supplements are made from chitin, the hard outer shells of shrimp, lobsters, and crabs. Other forms of glucosamine are available for people who are allergic to shellfish.

I know what you're talking about, tiny small dried shrimps. If they're good for me I'm going to eat them up!

Linking to another thread that contains a lot of research on enzymes and probiotics breaking down proteins. And it's mostly about certain common lactobactilli strains along with enzymes in your saliva, which is why you need to chew your food. Many of the lactobactilli are in my probiotic which I use when I make yogurt, which I add when soaking/fermenting legumes, oats, etc.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/enzymes-t259933.html

And remember, in addition to fermentation to reduce anti-nutrients there's also specific carbs that bind up lectins. What I think might be really handy is for someone to use previously linked to charts of lectins and the sugars that bind them to find what foods contain those sugars so we have a list of complimentary foods. And I wouldn't be surprised that many traditional food combinations followed for centuries contained such combos.

Here's a list of 'eight essential sugars' (glyconutrients) and food sources:

http://heartspring.net/glyconutrient_sources.html

And finally, another thought on perhaps another way we are genetically predisposed to acne. Throughout the articles I've read on this, there's some mention of blood type and that some of us are tolerant to of some of these lectins. The blood-type and specific carb diets are at least partially about lectins. And there's that supplement I linked to earlier that has a different formula for each blood type, presumably to address the lectins that blood type tends to be intolerant of. And I've read that people who adopted grain-based diets earlier seem to have done some adapting because grains are less problematic in people from the Mediterranean region as opposed to northern European types.

I don't think there's enough time or of the L. plantarum in our mouths when we chew that it'd make any difference. When I was making chicha (fermented corn drink started with spit) it'd take 3 to 4 days for the thing to start to bubble. Chewing, to me, only seems important regarding indigestion since the pytalin in spit is the only thing that really digests carbs until it gets to your large intestine, where it ferments from flora (gas).

But anyways, I've been meaning to ask. Has anyone who has noticed they broke out from a certain food found it okay to eat that same food fermented or soaked? I tried soaking beans, but it didn't help anything digestion wise. I'm going to try it again since I used salt the first time which could have prevented any fermentation.

Here's an interesting statement about glucosamine:

 

There are no major food sources of glucosamine, so people who want to take it must take supplements. Most supplements are made from chitin, the hard outer shells of shrimp, lobsters, and crabs. Other forms of glucosamine are available for people who are allergic to shellfish.

From http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/glucosamine-000306.htm

In many parts of the world, Mexico and Central America for example, they eat whole, dried shrimp, often in powdered form added to soups, rice and such. I can buy powdered shrimp in many markets here. They also often have tiny tried shrimp which I think are eaten as snacks. Or crushed to powder. I imagine they do this all over Asia as well.

And the list of eight sugars I posted above says that shitake mushrooms contain glucosamine in their chitin. So, mushrooms are made of chitin?

 

Yeah, all fungi are made of chitin, including candida and yeast. Insects and crustaceans, have it in there shells too, IIRC.

But anyways, I've been meaning to ask. Has anyone who has noticed they broke out from a certain food found it okay to eat that same food fermented or soaked? I tried soaking beans, but it didn't help anything digestion wise. I'm going to try it again since I used salt the first time which could have prevented any fermentation.

No, the only food that specifically causes breakouts for me is citrus. I've never had any problems digesting legumes.

Some of the instructions I've found for soaking nuts calls for salt, but I haven't done that as I don't see how that mimics germination. I suppose there could be some salt in the soil so maybe it doesn't hurt germination.

there's bakery near where i live which makes traditional sourdough bread with a wood-oven. It's not even that expensive. Do you think i should try it? Even on a candida-diet?

You could try it and see if it breaks you out. I soaked nuts one night with salt and one night without and then roasted low heat in the minioven. One website suggested salt but most don't mention it. Curious ...

This is an interesting idea, but I don't see much scientific evidence that ZAG has a crucial role in preventing skin cells from shedding properly (aside from a brief mention in http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/14/3/565#B38) , and, more importantly, that dietary lectins interfere with ZAG to the point where faulty desquamation leads to acne.

This is an interesting idea, but I don't see much scientific evidence that ZAG has a crucial role in preventing skin cells from shedding properly (aside from a brief mention in http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/14/3/565#B38) , and, more importantly, that dietary lectins interfere with ZAG to the point where faulty desquamation leads to acne.

There's plenty of info on the role of the zag enzyme, but you are right, so far, I've only Cordain's claim about lectins inhibiting ZAG. So I just added a link to the pdf of the 'Dietary Cure for Acne' and here's what he says on page 61:

Common dietary lectins from

whole wheat (WGA), peanuts (PNA) and soybeans (SBA) impair the action of

one of the glycosidase enzymes, known as zinc alpha (2) glycoprotein or ZAG.

This enzyme normally acts to dissolve three of the remaining proteins in

corneocyte desmosomes: Dsg1, Dsc1 and corneodesmosin. However, when

you eat lots of whole wheat, peanuts, soy based food products and other

legumes, their respective lectins (WGA, PNA and SBA) get into keratinocytes

and corneocyte lamellar bodies and bind zinc alpha (2) glycoprotein and prevent

it from getting its job done.

It's interesting that he only names lectins from wheat and legumes with WGA, PNA and SBA lectins as culprits. Does that mean other lectins don't bind ZAG?

Anyway, there's a list of references at the end, but they aren't cited within the content. It looks like the evidence should be somewhere on pages 112-114. But unfortunately, I don't see a study titled 'lectins bind ZAG enzyme' or anything easy like that.

And there are plenty of other sources that say lectins cause agglutination and mitosis to cells. Those are easy to find. And here's a different study on the effects of ZAG on hyperproliferation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1046271...ogdbfrom=pubmed

And remember, in addition to fermentation to reduce anti-nutrients there's also specific carbs that bind up lectins. What I think might be really handy is for someone to use previously linked to charts of lectins and the sugars that bind them to find what foods contain those sugars so we have a list of complimentary foods. And I wouldn't be surprised that many traditional food combinations followed for centuries contained such combos.

Here's a list of 'eight essential sugars' (glyconutrients) and food sources:

http://heartspring.net/glyconutrient_sources.html

From the above site. I added the italicized items.

Dietary Sources of Mannose

Fruit:

Blackcurrants Currants - Red

Gooseberries

Herbs:

Aloe Vera

Legumes:

Soybeans

Vegetables:

Beans - Green

Capsicum

Cabbage

Eggplant

Tomatoes

Turnip

fenugreek (commonly used in Indian cooking), but source doesn't specify greens or seeds(spice) Indians use both

kelp

Dietary Sources of Xylose

Fruit:

Guava

Pears

Blackberries

Loganberries

Raspberries

Herbs:

Aloe Vera

Echinacea

Boswellia

Seeds:

Psyllium Seeds

Vegetables:

Broccoli

Spinach

Eggplant

Peas

Beans - Green

Okra

Cabbage

Corn

Dietary Sources of Glucose Like we need help with this one.

(mg of Glucose per 100 grams)

Bee Foods: Honey 33,900

Fruits:

Grapes 7,300, Banana 7,000

Mangoes

Cherries 6,600

Strawberries 2,000

Herbs:

Cocoa

Aloe Vera

Licorice

Sarsaparilla

Hawthorn

Garlic

Echinacea

Dietary Sources of Galactose

(mg of Substance per 100 grams)

Fruit:

Apples 800

Apricot 600

Banana 200

Blackberries 1,000

Cherries 400

Cranberries 1,200

Currants 800

Dates 800

Grapes 300

Kiwi Fruit 700

Mango 1,700

Orange 1,600

Nectarine 1,100

Peach 1,300

Pear 600

Pineapple 700

Plums 2,600

Prunes 1,600

Raspberries 900

Rhubarb 1,500

Strawberries 500

Passionfruit 300

Herbs:

Echinacea

Boswellia

Nuts: Chestnuts 2,700

Vegetables:

Broccoli 2,700

Brussels Sprouts 4,100

Avocado

Cabbage 4,400

Carrot 3,400

Cauliflower 3,200

Celery 2,700

Cucumber 1,600

Potato 1,800

Eggplant 3,500

Tomatoes 1,600

Leeks 6,600

Asparagus 2,800

Lettuce 2,000

Beans Green 4,100

Mushrooms 1,100

Beetroot 1,100

Onions 4,500

Parsnip 2,200

Peas Green 800

Pumpkin 2,400

Spinach 1,400

Dietary Sources of Fucose:

Fucoidan containing plants including several species of seaweed such as Kelp and Wakame.

Beer yeast.

Dietary Sources of N-acetylneuraminic acid or sialic acid:

Whey protein isolate.

Hens egg.

Cholesterol containing animal fats? Milk? Colostrum?

Dietary Sources of N-acetylglucosamine:

Bovine cartilage

Shark cartilage

Shiitake Mushroom (as a constituent of chitin).

Other sources of chitin like insect, shrimp and other crustacean shells, yeast

Bacteria cell walls, probiotics and other flora that get digested for example?

Dietary Sources of N-acetyl-galactosamine:

Bovine cartilage

Shark cartilage

A red algae called Dumontiaceae (as a constituent of dextran sulphate) This product is only available from Japan as far as I know.

Agar Agar (thickener) is made from a red algae

Alliums like onions, garlic

And this recipe for a glyconutrient powder for those that want to supplement:

Here are the powders, the glyconutrients they contain and the ratio for consumption (the ratio is by volume, not weight and are offered as a guide only):

* 1 part ground fenugreek: mannose, galactose

* 1 part shiitake mushroom powder: N-acetylglucosamine, mannose.

* 1 part kelp powder: fucose, xylose, mannose, galactose, and glucose.

* 1 part whey protein isolate: N-acetylneuraminic acid.

* 1 part bovine or shark cartilage chondroitin sulphate powder (loose or in capsules): N-acetylglucosamine, N-acetylgalactosamine).

* 1/2 part of ground psyllium to boost the xylose content as there is not that much xylose in kelp.

* I also add 1 part of lecithin granules as I have received information suggesting that this dramatically increases the absorption of glyconutrients.

There's also glyconutrient jam.

I think this just shows how important it is to eat a variety of foods. And there are probably many more foods that contain these, but they are less universal. The person who constructed most of this list was in Australia. For example, maybe they don't have a lot of sweet potatoes there, which I find it hard to believe isn't a great source for a variety of glyconutrients. There was also an earlier post mentioning okra and other mucilaginous plants...

Now we need to put this together with the binding of what lectins.

So, back to the plan of making a list of Lectins and the Glyconutrients that bind them.

Per this list of lectins:

http://www.galab.de/technologies/technology/specificity.html

Mannose binds with Lentil lectin (LCH)

Mannose is in: Tomatoes, peppers, Blackcurrants Currants, Red Gooseberries (and I would assume other berries, Aloe Vera, Soybeans, Beans - Green, Capsicum (peppers), Cabbage, Eggplant, Tomatoes, Turnip, fennugreek

I usually cook lentils with tomatoes. Oh, and Indians often prepare lentils with fenugreek. The greens I think, not the seed, or maybe both. And I don't know which have the mannose.

Galactose binds with Peanut lectin (PNA)

So widely available in fruits and veggies I'm not going to bother listing them here.

Sialic acid and N-acetylglucosamine bind with Wheat Germ Aglutin (WGA)

Bovine cartilage, Shark cartilage, Shitake Mushroom (as a constituent of chitin).

Other sources of chitin like insect, shrimp and other crustacean shells.

Egg yolk, Whey, yeast (chitin), probiotics and other bacteria that get digested (bacteria cell walls made of NAG)

Eggs and toast, French toast, Some kind of mushroom spread for cracker or bread. Egg pasta, pasta with mushrooms. Maybe bone or shrimp shell broth based soup and bread, like in French onion soup. But it's still best of have sprouted grain or slow fermented bread.

I don't know why they always specifically name shitake mushrooms when all mushrooms, like all fungi, are made of chitin. Shitake are supposed to be the most nutritious though.

That chart doesn't include the SBA lectins in soy and other legumes. Have to find another one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From here: http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info...nt-lectins.aspx A good reference.

PHA the lectin in the kidney bean family (black beans, pinto beans, cannelini (white kidney).

Source just says it binds to many of the essential sugars.

The following lectins all work by specifically binding glucosamine:

 

* Barley (Hordeum vulgare)

* Potato (Solanum tuberosum)

* Rice (Orysza sativa)

* Rye (Secale cereale)

* Tomato (Lycopersicon esculentum)

* Wheat Germ (Triticum aestivum) aka (T. vulgare)

* Blackberry (Rubus fruticosus)

* Pumpkin, Marrow, Winter Squash (Cucurbita maxima)

* Tamarillo, Tree Tomato (Cyphomandra betacea)

 

the following work by binding galactosamine:

 

* Soybean (Glycine max)

* Corn, Maize (Zea mays)

* Lima Bean (Phaseolus limensis) aka (P. lunatus)

 

Bind with mannose:

* Broad bean, Fava bean (Vicia faba)

* Corn, Maize (Zea mays)

* Garden Pea (Pisum sativum)

* Garlic (Allium sativum)

* Jackfruit - tropical relative of breadfruit (Artocarpus heterophyllus)

* Leek (Allium porrum)

* Lentil (Lens culinaris)

* Onion (Allium cepa)

* Shallot (Allium ascalonicum)

* Taro (Colocasia esculenta)

 

Bind with fucose:

 

* Garden Pea (Pisum sativum)

* Lentil (Lens culinaris)

great work alternativista!

If only they weren't so hard to find...

As I suggested in another thread, we really should make a list with all the high-lectins food AND their specific lectin-binding combination. So that in theory, these foods could be eaten again, just ONLY with the combination! Would be awesome

More readable article about glyconutrients:

http://nutratosereview.org/glyconutrients-...body-naturally/

Also, this article Glyconutrients - The Missing Link is from the angle that it's the lack of these nutrients that leads to our diseases including the one's we find in the research on lectins like psoriasis and arthritis.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/glyco.pdf

Cool links, alternativista!

I'm finding fermented products are more tolerable. The grains I've tried are white bread flour wheat, spelt, white rice, and masa (maize). The most tolerable was white rice, but I had fermented that for three days. The gluten grains were only fermented for 1 day, and the maize was 2. The gluten grains broke me out a little (not compared to store bought bread or tortillas, though), but I kinda ate too much when I tested them so I dunno. Maize didn't break me out, but I suspect if I ate any more than 150 Cals worth I would. There was slight tingling.

I also tested your food combination theory today. I went to the store and bought egg noodles, ones with the most cholesterol, since NANA also forms a glycolipid (? IIRC). I also bought mushrooms. So I went home and started cooking. I already had a whole chicken in the crock pot, so I took about three ladles worth of the broth, 3 egg yolks (tried to seperate the whites best I could), one serving of noodles (1 1/4 cup, 210 Cal), and a decent amount of mushrooms.

I cooked til they were done, then I ate all of it together.

I noticed there was only slight tingling on my face, in my temples, but none of the pain you get when you feel a pimple is really coming. Also, I noticed the wheat didn't bother my stomach as much; it just kind of chilled there. Plus, I didn't crave more wheat after I was done, which is unusual for me.

I bet long fermentation + egg yolks and maybe broth would let me eat gluten again.

Edit: alternativista, bacterias' cell walls are made of alternating units of NAG and another sugar, and to a lesser extent contain sialic acid according to wikipedia. Also remember yeast are fungi and contain chitin.

Edit: alternativista, bacterias' cell walls are made of alternating units of NAG and another sugar, and to a lesser extent contain sialic acid according to wikipedia. Also remember yeast are fungi and contain chitin.

So probiotics that get digested are another source. Oh, and yeasted bread would be better than baking powder leavened things, that is, unless they are made with low gluten flour like cake flour. Or non-wheat flour, of course.

I'm glad this research is helping you. I'm about to go make french toast out of my loaf of sprouted grain bread because tomorrow, I'm baking bread from the dough thats been fermenting since Thursday night.

Fermenting is adding yogurt, is it not? I'm sorry, I can't imagine doing that to my bread. I can sort of see myself doing it to oats or rice.

Fermenting is adding yogurt, is it not? I'm sorry, I can't imagine doing that to my bread. I can sort of see myself doing it to oats or rice.

Fermenting = adding yogurt? Where the hell did you get that idea? Haha no. Fermenting is allowing bacteria/yeast to partially digest the food. Yogurt is a fermented food, sourdough bread is a fermented food, as is sauerkraut, beer+wine, and many others.

Alternativista - I love that whole notion of looking at traditional foods/cooking methods and just saying "ahh, so thats why". Beef stroganoff anyone? Egg noodles + mushrooms?