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Urbanite

Any downsides to Subcision OR Infini RF needling?

Posted (edited)

These procedures are being recommended to me but I want to know if anyone has experienced any downsides from either procedure.  I don't mean to question if they didn't work, but I would like to know if either procedure did any harm or made skin conditions worse?

One of my first procedures was with Skinpen.  It left my skin red for several months AND it seemed to depress the entire area where it was used (the side of my left temple looked like a red New Jersey shape had been stamped there).

I think it's really important to share any experiences that not only didn't work but made matters worse.  It's one thing to waste money. It's an entirely different to look worse than pre treatment.

Thank you in advance. 

Edited by Urbanite

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Posted (edited)

sorry to hear about skinpen. I would look to consult the Infini operator and ask them questions before starting. Doesn't have to be a doctor but I would want someone experienced. I would start off with a less aggressive setting with infini. Ask how many passes they do?What is the deepest they go? and what kind of pulse duration and power they use at each depth? The recommended max depth is 2.5mm and going shallower with each pass using low power setting no shallower than ~1mm as going high power on shallow depth will cause grid marks. Ask how many times they done infini and how often and if she has any before and afters?  Nokor subcision is an aggressive treatment and took me 2 months to fully recover. Might look into cannula subcision if your worried but only a few people do that technique.

I wouldn't want to do anything unless I am sure that I would be in good hands. 

Edited by joeysk

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1 hour ago, Urbanite said:

These procedures are being recommending to me but I want to know if anyone has experienced any downsides from either procedure.  I don't mean to question if they didn't work, but I would like to know if either procedure did any harm or made skin conditions worse?

One of my first procedures was with Skinpen.  It left my skin red for several months AND it seemed to depress the entire area where it was used (the side of my left temple looked like a red New Jersey shape had been stamped there).

I think it's really important to share any experiences that not only didn't work but made matters worse.  It's one thing to waste money. It's an entirely different to look worse than pre treatment.

Thank you in advance. 

Wow, I'm sorry to hear about your Skinpen experience. That must suck big time.

Regarding downsides to subcision and Infini, here's my experience:

Downsides:

Subcision: There's a limit to how much improvement you can get. The more times you do, the less the improvement. It is also time consuming tedious work that some derms choose to avoid.

Infini: You will need at least 5 sessions to see significant results. And the results come so so slowly. It takes at least 6 months after treatment for new collagen to be obvious. Scars can actually look worse before looking better. Not sure why, could be due to the trauma of multiple needles poking at them.

For both: Unpredictability. Different people may show different results. 

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RF needling is the one thing I haven't done yet because of all the horror stories I've read online. Sure, it may help some, but it can also make things worse. All that I've heard about track marks and other side effects from Infini should make everyone cautious before doing this procedure. Cannula subcision is the #1 treatment for rolling scars. 

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Posted (edited)

I was reading a study about subcision and this was the procedure:

Local anesthesia was done by infiltration of a solution of 2% lidocaine with 1:200,000 epinephrine into the superficial sub cutis. Anesthesia was sufficient to permit needle entry of 1 cm beyond the border of the scar areas. Then 5 - 10 ml of normal saline were injected into each cheek to produce tumescence. A sterile, hy-podermic, 18-gauge needle was used for subcision. The needle was held by a three ml syringe for better orientation of the sharp tip of the needle. It was kept horizontal to the skin surface with the bevel up, and was introduced in a high sub dermal plane. The needle was slowly advanced parallel to the skin surface. Initially rapid, repetitive linear back-and-forth motion of the needle in order to make the skin free of the underlying scar. this procedure was repeated in all directions in a fan-like manner. Larger scarred areas were treated through three entry sites to achieve triangulation of the treatment zone and to make thorough soft tissue release. The free hand acted as a guide to subcision and was used as needed to pinch, stretch, or stabilize the treatment site. Caution was taken to remain superficial to deep vessels and the proximal branches of facial nerve. The back-and-forth motion of the needle parallel to the skin surface resulted in audible rasping and popping as the underside of the dermis is released from its attachment to the sub cutis. A visible lift of the scar was noted at end-point of the procedure. Direct, manual pressure was applied immediately after a site was treated and dressed, and pressure was maintained for several minutes to obtain hemostasis.

So are the procedures in red typical?

Edited by Urbanite

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On 3/10/2020 at 2:31 AM, Urbanite said:

There's a great case study that shows the results of 1 sub+filler, then microneedling and TCA 15% peels alternating every two weeks for 6 months. There's more to it than just that, however, if you can find a good derm things like Skinpen should be relatively simple.

 

My advice follow the case study as closely as possible with experienced hands. These treatments have limited invasiveness and great results. Be consistent. This course is relatively cheap. 

 

 

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What i find weird about information u can get on internet about Microneedling RF :

Dr Lim, Dr Weiner and lots of others say that u can do this treatment spaced from 6-8 weeks, this is weird.

Beatifullambition says space it 3 months, I ve done Genius lutronic 11 days ago with Dr. Emil in Odense and he said the same as BA , 3 months apart, its energetic device, do it earlier and it might be dangerous.

 

Also BA wrote me PM, that he doesnt recommend doing microneedling rf and subcision on same day, all those doctors say they do it, and they havent got a problem with it.

Dr Emil told me the same, so i did subc + micoroneedling RF with him  same day, he also used saline injections, which can dissolve within a week.

Also how long it takes to see results ? 

On internet they say after 6 weeks, finale results up to 6 months so i wonder how it will be.

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Posted (edited)

I think they do subcision the same day because if there are still some tethers the energy can actually make it worse, so they subcise right before to make sure that doesn’t happen. But yes for regular subcision and filler (which you should do before rf microneedling) you should wait 3 months before rf micro like BA says.

Edited by hlp334

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On 3/13/2020 at 6:27 PM, Miro said:

What i find weird about information u can get on internet about Microneedling RF :

Dr Lim, Dr Weiner and lots of others say that u can do this treatment spaced from 6-8 weeks, this is weird.

Beatifullambition says space it 3 months, I ve done Genius lutronic 11 days ago with Dr. Emil in Odense and he said the same as BA , 3 months apart, its energetic device, do it earlier and it might be dangerous.

 

Also BA wrote me PM, that he doesnt recommend doing microneedling rf and subcision on same day, all those doctors say they do it, and they havent got a problem with it.

Dr Emil told me the same, so i did subc + micoroneedling RF with him  same day, he also used saline injections, which can dissolve within a week.

Also how long it takes to see results ? 

On internet they say after 6 weeks, finale results up to 6 months so i wonder how it will be.

@Miro how was your treatment with emil and how is the recovery? Do you possibly know what settings and how many passes he used?

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Posted (edited)

Hello, I came 1 hour before procedure, they put emla on my face, then Dr Emil performed subcison on scars that were thetered, then he did Genius Lutronic whole face, he told me everything he s gonna do before treatment, but i dont know if i remember it correctly, i think there were 5 passes on my cheeks, starting  with 2,5 mm, then ending last pass with 1 mm ? Dont remember, I know forehead was 3 passes deepest was 1.3 mm, . Afterwards he injected saline injections. 

I have thin blood, so i bled a lot especially on forehead, i ate a lot fish food lately , i guess thats the problem. 

There was pain, but it was bearable, some zones were without pain.  

First 4 days my face looked bad, cause of that pinpoint bleeding, after seven days all looks very good , except my lower cheeks, on the zone where i have facial hair - where beard grows ( altough i shave :-) ), theres still redness even after 2 weeks , i hope its not a problem i give it a month then i ll contact the doctor.

No crust , nothing . 

Results they say u can see after 6 weeks, , then after 3 months, best results people report after the scond Microneedling RF after 3 months.

I had procedure done exactly 14 days ago, 2 weeks ago on monday 2nd march 2020.

 

Edited by Miro

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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2020 at 6:27 PM, Miro said:

What i find weird about information u can get on internet about Microneedling RF :

Dr Lim, Dr Weiner and lots of others say that u can do this treatment spaced from 6-8 weeks, this is weird.

Beatifullambition says space it 3 months, I ve done Genius lutronic 11 days ago with Dr. Emil in Odense and he said the same as BA , 3 months apart, its energetic device, do it earlier and it might be dangerous.

 

Also BA wrote me PM, that he doesnt recommend doing microneedling rf and subcision on same day, all those doctors say they do it, and they havent got a problem with it.

Dr Emil told me the same, so i did subc + micoroneedling RF with him  same day, he also used saline injections, which can dissolve within a week.

Also how long it takes to see results ? 

On internet they say after 6 weeks, finale results up to 6 months so i wonder how it will be.

Hi Miro. I hope you see the good improvement you want from the treatment. Why does BA not recommend subcision and microneedling rf on the same day?. Also, how much did all this cost for you? Pls, if you can tell me, in a pm, i would be very thankful. I am saving up money right now to afford the travel and the treatment with Dr Emil.

Edited by MihaelaP

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As for improvement, i dont know, cause my skin is still healing, and first results they say u can see after first 6 weeks , it takes time, also

i red best results are after 2nd treatment after 3 months, it should be 6 monts since 1st .

BA - i dont know he said it adds risk, but all doctors online said they do it on same day, they need to release theters, otherwise it can make things worse, i will keep u updated after 6 weeks, and then after 3months, also if i get the chance in june i am going for 2nd Genius treatment ( korona so who knows what will be then ) , i really wonder what will be resluts 3 months after 2nd treatment :-)

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On 3/4/2020 at 6:06 PM, Urbanite said:

These procedures are being recommended to me but I want to know if anyone has experienced any downsides from either procedure.  I don't mean to question if they didn't work, but I would like to know if either procedure did any harm or made skin conditions worse?

One of my first procedures was with Skinpen.  It left my skin red for several months AND it seemed to depress the entire area where it was used (the side of my left temple looked like a red New Jersey shape had been stamped there).

I think it's really important to share any experiences that not only didn't work but made matters worse.  It's one thing to waste money. It's an entirely different to look worse than pre treatment.

Thank you in advance. 

I've had several treatments of both and there were no downsides for me at all.  I feel both had helped significantly.

 

On 3/16/2020 at 4:16 AM, Miro said:

Hello, I came 1 hour before procedure, they put emla on my face, then Dr Emil performed subcison on scars that were thetered, then he did Genius Lutronic whole face, he told me everything he s gonna do before treatment, but i dont know if i remember it correctly, i think there were 5 passes on my cheeks, starting  with 2,5 mm, then ending last pass with 1 mm ? Dont remember, I know forehead was 3 passes deepest was 1.3 mm, . Afterwards he injected saline injections. 

I have thin blood, so i bled a lot especially on forehead, i ate a lot fish food lately , i guess thats the problem. 

There was pain, but it was bearable, some zones were without pain.  

First 4 days my face looked bad, cause of that pinpoint bleeding, after seven days all looks very good , except my lower cheeks, on the zone where i have facial hair - where beard grows ( altough i shave :-) ), theres still redness even after 2 weeks , i hope its not a problem i give it a month then i ll contact the doctor.

No crust , nothing . 

Results they say u can see after 6 weeks, , then after 3 months, best results people report after the scond Microneedling RF after 3 months.

I had procedure done exactly 14 days ago, 2 weeks ago on monday 2nd march 2020.

 

Hope you will see positive results!!

 

12 hours ago, MihaelaP said:

Hi Miro. I hope you see the good improvement you want from the treatment. Why does BA not recommend subcision and microneedling rf on the same day?. Also, how much did all this cost for you? Pls, if you can tell me, in a pm, i would be very thankful. I am saving up money right now to afford the travel and the treatment with Dr Emil.

Per BA, since subcision and RF (or any other energy device) are the more major/substantial treatments, separating these two will allow collagen growth and give our bodies the time it needs to heal and repair. 

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