Has anyone tried phenol chemabrasion for acne scarring? It is a technique invented by a Dr Rullan in Chula Vista, CA. It involves applying phenol, a deep peeling agent, followed soon after by dermabrasion and another application of phenol. I'm considering having this done for boxcar and ice pick scars and would like to hear any feedback.
Below are some before and after pictures from Rullan's website -- they look promising.
The site is [Removed]
I'm sure it would give decent results
BUT
Phenol peels by themselves are really risky. Dermabrasion is somewhat risky in general. Combining the two seems like a recipe for disaster. I found this:
Apparently the concentration of phenol used for this procedure is substantially less than for traditional phenol peeling, which decreases some of the risks, such as loss of pigmentation. I'm particularly impressed by the first before and after photo, because my scarring is essentially the same as the patient's was, though you can tell that he has a few ice pick scars that weren't leveled and the skin is still a little uneven. Still, it shows substantial improvement, more than I've seen for laser and dermabrasion, for example.
Sets one and two seem basically to be shot in the same lighting, particularly number two -- you can see that the second patient's ice pick scars were improved substantially, with some of them gone completely. In fact, the sets where the lighting is inconsistent show less improvement, not more, though that's possibly because their scarring was less severe.
I'm going to contact this doctor to learn more. I did a search and apparently he's received mixed reviews here -- he's either kind and caring or a &#%$, depending on who you ask -- but that seems to be the case for almost every doctor mentioned on Acne.org.
I'm sure it would give decent results
BUT
Phenol peels by themselves are really risky. Dermabrasion is somewhat risky in general. Combining the two seems like a recipe for disaster. I found this:
where does it say this treatment is innofective? it says acne scar patients recieved 80% improvement! this method just gave me new found hope...hope i thought i would never seee...where is CA anyway is it california
Yes, southern California, near the Mexican border. Apparently the first week after the procedure is intense -- the face swells up to where you probably won't be able to chew, and you may not be able to see. The skin is literally melted off of the face. But this process looks promising.
Yes, southern California, near the Mexican border. Apparently the first week after the procedure is intense -- the face swells up to where you probably won't be able to chew, and you may not be able to see. The skin is literally melted off of the face. But this process looks promising.
one thing im confused about is regular exoderm included with the chemabrasion or is it just the peel alone. when i read bad reviews i dont know if they are talking about just exoderm or phenol chemabrasion
Apparently the concentration of phenol used for this procedure is substantially less than for traditional phenol peeling, which decreases some of the risks, such as loss of pigmentation. I'm particularly impressed by the first before and after photo, because my scarring is essentially the same as the patient's was, though you can tell that he has a few ice pick scars that weren't leveled and the skin is still a little uneven. Still, it shows substantial improvement, more than I've seen for laser and dermabrasion, for example.
It's still a pretty hard procedure to do in terms of recovery and you have a HIGH risk of pigmentation problems. According to the study ~40% of people had pigmentation issues afterwards. If you're willing to accept the risk then go for it - I'm sure it will give you as good as/better results that other treatments.
Also,
"Fulton feels that deep acne scars are best treated by combining CO2 laser with dermabrasion."
one thing im confused about is regular exoderm included with the chemabrasion or is it just the peel alone. when i read bad reviews i dont know if they are talking about just exoderm or phenol chemabrasion
Exoderm is another name for a phenol peel, of which there are several types. Phenol chemabrasion uses a weaker concentration of phenol and adds the dermabrasion, so there's a difference.
It's still a pretty hard procedure to do in terms of recovery and you have a HIGH risk of pigmentation problems. According to the study ~40% of people had pigmentation issues afterwards. If you're willing to accept the risk then go for it - I'm sure it will give you as good as/better results that other treatments.
Also,
"Fulton feels that deep acne scars are best treated by combining CO2 laser with dermabrasion."
The possibility of hypopigmentation is something to take into account, then, particularly for darker skin types. I have fair skin so it's less of an issue. As for CO2 and dermabrasion, based on reviews it seems the key is to find a doctor who will be aggressive enough to penetrate deeply enough into the skin to level the depressed areas as much as possible with the surrounding skin. If the doctor isn't invasive enough, there will only be superficial results. With the phenol procedure at least we're obviously penetrating deeply -- perhaps too deeply for some people.
Apparently the concentration of phenol used for this procedure is substantially less than for traditional phenol peeling, which decreases some of the risks, such as loss of pigmentation. I'm particularly impressed by the first before and after photo, because my scarring is essentially the same as the patient's was, though you can tell that he has a few ice pick scars that weren't leveled and the skin is still a little uneven. Still, it shows substantial improvement, more than I've seen for laser and dermabrasion, for example.
It's still a pretty hard procedure to do in terms of recovery and you have a HIGH risk of pigmentation problems. According to the study ~40% of people had pigmentation issues afterwards. If you're willing to accept the risk then go for it - I'm sure it will give you as good as/better results that other treatments.
Also,
"Fulton feels that deep acne scars are best treated by combining CO2 laser with dermabrasion."
the 40 % of people that had pigmentation issues after wards was that with a normal phenol peel or the phenol chemebrasion.also i wouldnt want my whole face done can this procedure be as a spot treatment too?
i wonder if rullan is the only one who knows how to fo this procedure. i read about one in colorado i belive but my main concern would be can you still get results if you dont go withdr. rullan? im pretty sure he isnt the only one that perfected this technique but then again you never know....
Apparently the concentration of phenol used for this procedure is substantially less than for traditional phenol peeling, which decreases some of the risks, such as loss of pigmentation. I'm particularly impressed by the first before and after photo, because my scarring is essentially the same as the patient's was, though you can tell that he has a few ice pick scars that weren't leveled and the skin is still a little uneven. Still, it shows substantial improvement, more than I've seen for laser and dermabrasion, for example.
It's still a pretty hard procedure to do in terms of recovery and you have a HIGH risk of pigmentation problems. According to the study ~40% of people had pigmentation issues afterwards. If you're willing to accept the risk then go for it - I'm sure it will give you as good as/better results that other treatments.
Also,
"Fulton feels that deep acne scars are best treated by combining CO2 laser with dermabrasion."
the 40 % of people that had pigmentation issues after wards was that with a normal phenol peel or the phenol chemebrasion.also i wouldnt want my whole face done can this procedure be as a spot treatment too?
i wonder if rullan is the only one who knows how to fo this procedure. i read about one in colorado i belive but my main concern would be can you still get results if you dont go withdr. rullan? im pretty sure he isnt the only one that perfected this technique but then again you never know....
The 3X% thing comes from the study linked off his website.
"acne scar patients showed 69% were the same and 31% were a little lighter." + whatever % got darker/werent reported in the study.
Apparently the concentration of phenol used for this procedure is substantially less than for traditional phenol peeling, which decreases some of the risks, such as loss of pigmentation. I'm particularly impressed by the first before and after photo, because my scarring is essentially the same as the patient's was, though you can tell that he has a few ice pick scars that weren't leveled and the skin is still a little uneven. Still, it shows substantial improvement, more than I've seen for laser and dermabrasion, for example.
It's still a pretty hard procedure to do in terms of recovery and you have a HIGH risk of pigmentation problems. According to the study ~40% of people had pigmentation issues afterwards. If you're willing to accept the risk then go for it - I'm sure it will give you as good as/better results that other treatments.
Also,
"Fulton feels that deep acne scars are best treated by combining CO2 laser with dermabrasion."
the 40 % of people that had pigmentation issues after wards was that with a normal phenol peel or the phenol chemebrasion.also i wouldnt want my whole face done can this procedure be as a spot treatment too?
i wonder if rullan is the only one who knows how to fo this procedure. i read about one in colorado i belive but my main concern would be can you still get results if you dont go withdr. rullan? im pretty sure he isnt the only one that perfected this technique but then again you never know....
The 3X% thing comes from the study linked off his website.
"acne scar patients showed 69% were the same and 31% were a little lighter." + whatever % got darker/werent reported in the study.
do you think this treatment is worth it for deep ice pick and box car scars?
Considering you have darker skin - probably not. You would have to personally analyze the risk:reward for yourself. Maybe if they're able to spot treat (like tca cross) it might be a little bit less risky but still has risk.
im not dark at all. im actually pretty light but the thing is i tan very easily. if they use this on dark skin i dont c why it cant work on me. since i live in canada the flight is gonna be very expensive. honestly this treatment has the best results for ice pick and box scar i have ever seeen so i dont see how i can loose and they most likley do offer spot treeatments.
the treatment looks very good, i'm from people that they believe in old school treatment like full ablative lasers , dermabrasion , if you have shallow or moderate acne scars , they will do the job but in case of deep scars maybe not cuz they are not going so deep like fractional lasers , the problems with ablative treatments are additional scars and hypopigmentation depend on your skin tone , may be if you want to be in safe side , do your search about recell , it's help so much with healing
http://www.drrullan.com/gallery/index.html , what about these results ?!! , it's looks impressive