Sweet I'm a science person lol.

I actually haven't cared about topicals for years. I just use a gentle cleanser, and benzoyl peroxide when I need to, and a moisturizer when using benzoyl peroxide. Topicals are irrelevant to oily skin, because although they can make the skin appear more or less oily, I believe that they do not alter the amount of sebum produced. The only topicals that could have an effect on oil production are topical antiandrogens. So I think using a moisturizer or a toner will not affect the amount of oil you produce. My opinion on topicals is that you should use as little as you can.

About why you have less oil after stopping the toner, I think either you are experiencing the placebo effect, or the toner just made you look more oily. I don't think using a toner would make you have more oil, nor would stopping it make you have less.

Hey

Toner's can be a very tricky thing in my opinion. Some people purchase toners with alcohol in them, and while this is fine for some people, if you even "think" you have sensitive skin this is a major no-no.

But I know that's not what you're doing, which is great lol. For people with oily, sensitive, or just plain problematic skin, a toner is a nice step that you can do to balance your skin's pH, moisturize with making it greasy, and gently exfoliate. Having said all that, toner's are a very individual thing. Some people find their skin responds well to it, and other's not so much. If you seem to like not using, give it a shot. Just keep in mind that our skin does change day to day, so when assessing how your skin likes your new routine try to give it at least a week before deciding if you like it or not. Using a toner is by no means a necessary part of any routine.

And as far as your skin looking better without it, that's great .

Just remember that your skin just might be going through a "nice" time interval lol. I get those from time to time, and for no apparant reason my skin just looks inexplicably better for a couple days lol.

But there is another possibility though. Awhile back I went and tried a modified "cavemen" routine; basically just water and cleansing every couple days. And you no what, my skin looked less oily; without a doubt. I was getting acne in places I don't usually and my skin in general just looked like crap lol, but there seemed to be less oil.

I'm pretty sure that this happens because as we wash/cleanse/exfoliate our faces, we remove dirt, grime, and dead skin cells right? Normally this a good thing, but for people with oily skin all those skin cells and other junk will literally mattify and absorb the oil on your skin. So when you wash it all away, you have oil on clean, radiant skin and it flows more freely and is more shiny/noticeable.

I in no way am pro "caveman" routine lol, I think that is a really bad idea. But it is pretty much fact that it can reduce the appearance of oily skin, although with undesirable side effects.

Now I mention all of that because most toners are very good at chemically exfoliating your skin; especially anything with alpha-hydroxy acids such as malic or lactic acid. Apple cider vinegar, which I use, is chock full of these. So when you stop using your toner, you may have more dead skin cells on your face, making it look less shiny.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing though, I'd just see what your skin likes and what you look the best using

Omnivium- agreed. I would love to go as basic as possible. I still want to try to get off bp but it may not be an option. Since my skincare routine keeps me acne free, instead of modifying it with other products or trying to go natural, i finally thought about just removing a step And seeing if it helps the oil. Best to start with toner since everything else is sort of essential.

I agree with both of you on the placebo/"nice" day my skin is having. Thats always how it works when trying something different. Too bad i cant just try something "new" everyday and always have glowing skin.

Cbiot- you know my skin well. My toner is neutrogenas alcohol free. Always been a staple in my line since astringents may as well be like putting gas on my face and lighting it. I did try witch hazel and also rose water witch hazel, and acv, which you probably remember how excited i was about that, its a shame that my face eventually rejected it, it made my skin soo smooth.

But after creeping on all your guys' posts- toners are to balance and i thought "what am i balancing at this point?" My cleanser has such a low ph that i shouldnt have a need for this step. We have that "cleanse, tone, moisturize" thing so drilled into our heads but i no longer believe it applies to people with my skin type. I should be doing as little as possible to my face.

Yes!! The dead skin cells thing- here we have again an idea so ingrained. I actually thought about this today being the reason i "looked" less shiny. Since we apply it with cotton, its just another way to scrape our faces clean. I think it was either jofo or omnivium that first told me about this part and it truly makes sense.

Im sort of wondering if this toner is actually a toner. Now understanding the ph thing-it seems needless for me. My cleanser leaves nothing behind so i dont need it for that either. Think you guys just helped me save $8 a month.

I wish i could do the caveman thing- but i would have the same reaction you did. And since im washing makeup off at night that doesnt work. But if i could even do that in the morning, it would be nice.

Aha- tried many products a long time ago and my skin would hurt and become red so i stopped. After learning more about aha on here, i gave it a shot to jump start cell turnover and help get rid of marks. I got a 10% glycolic night cream and used a thin layer under my nightime lotion. My face was a bit red the next day which i was prepared for. The next day my skin started peeling and when i was able to safely remove a bit-i noticed that the darker spots sort of lightened, not by much but enough. Those spots have since gotten much better but i know realistically, i will only be ale to use this once or twice a month. Skin was also not oily at all for 2 days.

I had awesome luck with lemon essential oil but it caused bumps. I think someone with non-sensitive skin may benefit from using a drop in their moisturizer.

As long as going toner free doesnt cause me any acne, i think ill stop it for good. Nice to have one less step if its a pointless one for me. As always, thanks guys!

i am not sure i qualify as a 'science person' here.

do u use a cleanser that has something that needs to be absorbed in the dermis(or epidermis)?

if yes,then IMO u will do good in stop using something with pH that low.

water has a pH from 6-9 while skin (average) has 5.5(from 4.5 to 6.varies) .water does change the ph a lil' but its easily restored.

if its something absorbed(cleanser specially) u should keep it to 5 to 5.5 more or less.

also,i believe unless its needed moisturiser isn't a must.

i might be wrong but i breakout badly and become oilier whenever i use a mosituriser(in very less time).

i also,break out whenever i use it unless needed.i live in a hot/humid tropical place.

and so i only use one in the winter months.

Hi Aanabill-I'm not a science girl either so no worries! I still appreciate the input very much.

I don't believe there is anything in my cleanser that is absorbed. It rinses very clean which I love. And it cleans pores better than anything I've used. As long as I don't use powder/foundations, the blackheads on my forehead are very limited.

I've had quite the rollercoaster with cleansers and I always always come back to this one. Anything higher or stronger usually gives me rashes and acne. It's the sensitive/combo aspect of my skin that is an issue. I have to be so careful and treat the sensitive skin before I treat the acne. (Which i have none at the moment, thank God).

You and I use a similar cleanser, but I believe yours foams and mine is a cream. Anyone who knows me on here, knows that bubbles are my enemy!!

But they both have a low dose of SA and it's so calming for me. My skin won't tolerate anything that suds up.

I recently posted a thing about needing a moisturizer. Got some great feedback and tested going without it. No dice. It did nothing for oil reduction and I'm truly not ready to give up using a sunscreen. I've used spf on my face everyday for 15 years and I have no sun damage. Being 33, this is wonderful that I took that measure.

Having combo as well as extremely oily is frustrating. If I don't use my moisturizer, i get very dry around my chin and mouth. Skin flakes and yet is soaked with oil. Such an annoying thing.

Day 3 of no toner- and it's going well. My skin looks and feels the same as when I used it so I'm hoping this continues! I would very much like to simplify if I can.

i dint say am not a science person.

i am a medical student.and doesnt matter how badly people bash anyone related to the field of medicine here(yes!yes!i bash them too) but we r still very much 'science people'!

in short i am a science person who believes in holistic living and diet-acne connection(i am not a extremist.i dnt think diet can an answer to every acne-sufferer or any other health issues) !

what i meant is 'here'!

when i say anything that is absorbed i mean anything that is suppose to be absorbed like SA.

SA needs surface absorption for work.

(also extremely basic pH doesnt let it act well.so even though we should avoid anything too alkaline forms,we might nt want to 'stoop too low'(on the pH scale that is! ) either.

my safe bet is the ph of my skin(considering the average).i let it absorb btw!

creams are generally the ones which are moisturising cleanser(mostly i say!)

i used one(without SA) in the winter mnths.

but i live in a hot-humid place and i wouldnt need one other than the winter mnths.

a sunscreen is a MUST.

do not quit on that.its not only because ur skin is acne-prone or sensitive but even others must use it.

(i dnt use them when at home,i can allow poor lil' rays through windows and doors to touch me.

also,not after 4.30-5.30(depending on the season) in the evening.

just use one with a good spf and both chemical and physical block(preferably zno).

I hope I didn't offend you! I had no idea that you're a medical student (which is awesome!) but I wouldn't bash the advice of anyone here, medical, holistic or otherwise. I appreciate your medical and personal opinions alike and I would go as far as to say I trust the advice from people like you and the science guys because you're learning about skin from such a different angle than I am. And for the record-I am an advocate for any type of medicine. I'm actually trying to go more natural/organic in every aspect of my life, but I also rely on my Doctors heavily. With that said, I truly meant no offense and would love to hear your opinion on many topics.

Diet- I'm hoping to find some connection between that and my oily skin. I haven't ever noticed a change in my skin when changing my diet, but there might still be something I'm missing. I would like to cut out sugar all together, but my primary doctor has advised eliminating anything because I am severely underweight. There are many things I can't have, so what I can have, I just eat a lot of that. I hope some day my weight will normalize and I can try eating even healthier than I do now.

The absorption of the sa-- I think I originally misunderstood you. With my cream cleanser, I'm able to massage it into my skin and clean it well without that burning feeling that I experienced with other cleansers. I feel that the SA definitely gets absorbed because I have literally no pore blockages. When I rinse, I rinse very very thoroughly and my skin is clean, but not tight feeling and I only need less than a pea size drop of my moisturizer.

I think my cream cleanser may be slightly different than others. It has a limited ingredients and other cream cleansers I've tried are too thick and heavy. While they make my skin feel nice and soft, they are TOO moisturizing. I like this one because it has menthol in it and I believe my skin is dependent on that "tingly" feeling now. I also believe the menthol is drying up some of the oil without stripping my skin. I like that aspect as well.

Sunscreen-Agreed. I will never stop using this (especially since now I know my moisturizer doesn't make me "oilier"). I use it everyday of the year and it's a good one. uva/uvb protection and the spf I think is about 30. It has vitamin C in it as well, which I believe is what gives my skin that sort of glow. When I tried other ones, I did not have that glow so it appears that not only have I been lucky enough to find the perfect cleanser, I've also found the perfect suncscreen lotion.

What is zno?