I've also started back on inositol and two weeks in I've had a new breakout on my chin as well as a second period for the month of July. The first time I took inositol I did not have any new breakouts. Has anyone experienced a breakout shortly after starting inositol and/or an irregular period shortly after starting inositol?

rmmcclelland, I take 600mg of d-chiro inositol, 1500mg of myo sounds like a lot of you're underweight. You should also check out the post in this thread where I linked in an article on how birth control changes insulin response, which could result in PCOS or PCOS symptoms.

Thanks for the link WishClean. I responded in the other thread so as to not clog up your inositol/DIM thread.

I'm not sure if you saw one of my previous questions on this topic but I was asking about whether or not you found any new information on long term inositol use or potential inositol resistance? I'm considering going back on it now that six months have passed and also because I came across a video (I posted in this thread) about how important inositol is for PCOS.

Finally, do you think DIM is a long term supplement or just a temporary one for detoxing your body of excess estrogen? Do you know of any potential rebound effects or side effects from long term use? Just curious.

Unfortunately, there are no longterm studies other than the 6-month trial...but maybe there's more info on the Chiral Balance website about long term use of inositol. The video you posted is very useful, I think they cite it on the Chiral Balance forum as well.

Not sure how effective DIM is long term either... I am planning on testing my hormones once I finally have decent health insurance again, so I guess I'll find out in a few months. I'm curious too.

I'm joining the inositol experiment. I've long suspected I might have PCOS, or at least a hormonal imbalance, which has become apparent since going off BC two years ago.

My acne issue is hormonal cysts that appear on my chin each and every month. I have very clear skin on the rest of my face, but if anything plays with my hormones I will face an eruption (or three or four). My most recent situation was drinking a whey protein shake which, I didn't realize, promotes testosterone. The next morning I had two cysts on my chin, more coming up on my cheeks... In the following weeks ELEVEN total popped up in succession, all below the cheekbones. Luckily they didn't scar, and once extracted they stayed away. Currently, one month later, the breakout has slowed down, and there's only one left on my chin. (Fingers crossed.) I also had the worst period of my life that month, with initial cramps so horrific I ended up vomiting from the pain. I attribute all of this to one glass of a testosterone-friendly powder blended into a seemingly-healthy shake with spinach.

Other PCOS symptoms I've noticed include - hair everywhere after going off the pill (sides of face, jawline, upper lip, most of my body, etc.), fibrocystic breasts, cycles which are not wildly irregular but are very heavy and last at least a full week; insomnia and terrible PMS depression that lasts two weeks before my period. As stated, I went off BC two years ago as the generic I'd used - the only one that hadn't given me intense side effects - was discontinued, and I have not ovulated since.

I have digestive issues as well - diagnosed Celiac, problems digesting dairy (cheese is OK, generally), and VERY intense reactions to sugar I don't eat it too often, but if I have any amount larger than a few teaspoons I will be out of commission for at least a day, with extreme fatigue, full-body bloating, and migraines. I've begun to realize this is probably an insulin issue. It also tends to break me out (of course), and make my PMS intense.

Getting checked for PCOS isn't an option right now, since my husband quit his job to join a start-up, and we're between insurance providers. So, in the meantime, I've started taking evening primrose three times daily, as it's helped my hormonal acne in the past, a multi with folic acid, calcium with D, and zinc twice a day. I also drink apple cider vinegar in water. And after reading this thread and many articles on PCOS websites, I bought a bottle of Twinlab myo-inositol and have begun taking 1500 MGs. (Is this too much? Too little?)

Four days in - I haven't had any new breakouts, which is a good sign as my period should come sometime in the next week, and the cysts usually show up early. I'm not noticing any appetite loss; I'm actually hungrier, though that's not a bad thing, as I'm underweight. I have a headache for about a half hour after I take one. I'll be updating as things progress!

Good luck, keep us posted!

A lot of people keep their acne under control when eliminating gluten, especially if they are celiacs. It's good that you pay attention to other symptoms as well (such as indigestion)...usually those are all connected.

Hi WishClean and everybody else,

I'm hoping someone can help me. I've been back on inositol for three weeks and during that time I had only one breakout that wasn't too bad. Five days ago I started the antibiotic Cephalexin at 500mg four times per day, prescribed to me by the walk-in clinic because my ear piercing became infected. Today I woke up with a really bad nodule. Im very upset about this obviously and also confused because this antibiotic is actually prescribed for acne patients. I have read in one or two places that long-term antibiotic use may reduce inositol in the body. But is five days long enough for this result? Would you suggest I take an extra (600mg) tablet of inositol to combat this? Also, has anyone experienced an IB on inositol (I did not the first time around but my skin was in a good state when I started it the last time)? Also, is there a benefit to combining myo and chiro inositol for acne specifically (I have read both may be taken for infertility)? Thanks for the help and please quote me, so I know to check back right away!

Hey brenmc,

Have you ever had your histamines checked during a general blood test?

Some antibiotics can worsen acne, even the ones prescribed for acne. my skin usually worsened on them, so they don't work on everyone the same. 500mg x4 sounds like a lot... is that much really necessary? I had an ear infection from a piercing before, and I'm pretty sure I never took that much, if anything at all. I just used a topical antibiotic on the wound and it healed just fine.

Hmm there are things that can deplete inositol in the body, so it could be...but you're right, 5 days is a very short time span for anything extreme to happen.

You can combine myo and chiro together...in fact, that's what I was doing at first because I didn't know if chiro on its own would work. For me, chiro worked extremely well the first 2-3 weeks, then my skin plateaued so I just increased my regular inositol instead bc chiro was getting a bit expensive.

The other thing I'm reading now and researching is based on this thread here:

I'm thinking I was really onto something with the enzymes I was taking for digestive issues.... the poster explains it well, esp. in the last few posts, how it's all related.

 

Hi WishClean and everybody else,

I'm hoping someone can help me. I've been back on inositol for three weeks and during that time I had only one breakout that wasn't too bad. Five days ago I started the antibiotic Cephalexin at 500mg four times per day, prescribed to me by the walk-in clinic because my ear piercing became infected. Today I woke up with a really bad nodule. Im very upset about this obviously and also confused because this antibiotic is actually prescribed for acne patients. I have read in one or two places that long-term antibiotic use may reduce inositol in the body. But is five days long enough for this result? Would you suggest I take an extra (600mg) tablet of inositol to combat this? Also, has anyone experienced an IB on inositol (I did not the first time around but my skin was in a good state when I started it the last time)? Also, is there a benefit to combining myo and chiro inositol for acne specifically (I have read both may be taken for infertility)? Thanks for the help and please quote me, so I know to check back right away!

Thanks for the quick reply WishClean! The antibiotic dose does seem crazy high, but thats what was prescribed to me. I called the piercing place and based on how swollen my ear had become (its a helix piercing, upper ear) they recommended I go to a clinic and the doctor recommended the antibiotics. So here I am. Its a week-long course. In the early to mid-2000s, I took antibiotics of all shapes and sizes to control my acne to positive, short-term, results. So its odd that it would cause a flare-up, except I cant think of what else may have.

So you ended up just going back to myo-inositol at a higher dose? What dose, in milligrams, do you take (mine is already in a tablet, so I cant compare teaspoons or whatever)? According to the video I posted from the Chiral Balance website, myo-inositol works differently from chiro-inositol I wonder if I need both? Should I up my dose?

Im thinking CAREFULLY about starting DIM if things dont clear up soon. Im really scared about the increase in free testosterone that people talk about causing a breakout but, on the other hand, Ive been in this renewed struggle for over a year now with little relief. And you said DIM did not cause an IB for you and has actually helped loads, right? Having PCOS, DIM makes sensebecause it is a high estrogen and high androgen problem. Im still on sprio though and GreenGables said she had a horrendous breakout from combining the two. Until my skin gets settled, Im not comfortable dropping spiro, for fear of a rebound effect. Do you think DIM is a good idea, given my situation? What do you think about this brand (its the same Canadian company that makes my inositol (Glucosmart))? [Edited link out]

I read the thread that you linked in, Im confused. Can you please dumb this down for mehow are digestive enzymes related to cortisteriods?

Thank you!

B

On 7/27/2014 at 3:50 AM, WishClean said:

Some antibiotics can worsen acne, even the ones prescribed for acne. my skin usually worsened on them, so they don't work on everyone the same. 500mg x4 sounds like a lot... is that much really necessary? I had an ear infection from a piercing before, and I'm pretty sure I never took that much, if anything at all. I just used a topical antibiotic on the wound and it healed just fine.

Hmm there are things that can deplete inositol in the body, so it could be...but you're right, 5 days is a very short time span for anything extreme to happen.

You can combine myo and chiro together...in fact, that's what I was doing at first because I didn't know if chiro on its own would work. For me, chiro worked extremely well the first 2-3 weeks, then my skin plateaued so I just increased my regular inositol instead bc chiro was getting a bit expensive.

The other thing I'm reading now and researching is based on this thread here:

I'm thinking I was really onto something with the enzymes I was taking for digestive issues.... the poster explains it well, esp. in the last few posts, how it's all related.

On 7/27/2014 at 2:00 AM, brenmc said:

Hi WishClean and everybody else,

I'm hoping someone can help me. I've been back on inositol for three weeks and during that time I had only one breakout that wasn't too bad. Five days ago I started the antibiotic Cephalexin at 500mg four times per day, prescribed to me by the walk-in clinic because my ear piercing became infected. Today I woke up with a really bad nodule. Im very upset about this obviously and also confused because this antibiotic is actually prescribed for acne patients. I have read in one or two places that long-term antibiotic use may reduce inositol in the body. But is five days long enough for this result? Would you suggest I take an extra (600mg) tablet of inositol to combat this? Also, has anyone experienced an IB on inositol (I did not the first time around but my skin was in a good state when I started it the last time)? Also, is there a benefit to combining myo and chiro inositol for acne specifically (I have read both may be taken for infertility)? Thanks for the help and please quote me, so I know to check back right away!

On 6/29/2014 at 6:36 AM, WishClean said:

Yeah, but if we took everything prescribed to us, we'd probably be pill poppers by now Oh, I had a helix piercing infection too....and then I gave up on piercing altogether. it seems like it's one of the most common places for the ear to become infected. Maybe try a topical antibiotic, or something milder/cream like neosporin?

Yes, maybe taking both forms of inositol could help you. There's also another form, inositol hexaniacinate, which is basically a form of another B vitamin, niacin...I think that might help you too, but I haven't tried it. The only niacin I take is in the vitamin water I drink, but I think it helps a bit.

As you know from my pre-DIM posts, I was scared of taking it too, but I truly believe that those who claim it raises testosterone just haven't studied DIM closely enough. Wikipedia lists it as the most potent herbal antiandrogen (not that wikipedia is that reliable, but there is some truth to that statement). Some women on acne.org have tried estrosmart, I haven't. I take olympian labs DIM, and I'm nervous about switching to something else because this one only contains DIM...I would be wary of any other ingredients, although companies like Nature's Way and Estosmart's manufacturers claim that the extra ingredients help absorption. But if that's your only option in Canada, then why not? I don't think you should mix spiro with DIM, though...herbs and hormonal meds don't usually mix... maybe lower the spiro a lot, then add DIM and try to take them many hours apart.

Btw, I try to take my DIM after a meal (whereas I take 1/8 spoon of inositol on an empty stomach) because I read that fat helps it become better absorbed.

follow the thread on hyperplasia...I'm not sure the enzymes the poster mentioned are digestive...but the digestive enzymes supplements I take also contain other types of enzymes, and I'm wondering if those are helping my hormones in addition to my digestion...

On 7/27/2014 at 4:24 AM, brenmc said:

Thanks for the quick reply WishClean! The antibiotic dose does seem crazy high, but that™s what was prescribed to me. I called the piercing place and based on how swollen my ear had become (it™s a helix piercing, upper ear) they recommended I go to a clinic and the doctor recommended the antibiotics. So here I am. It™s a week-long course. In the early to mid-2000s, I took antibiotics of all shapes and sizes to control my acne to positive, short-term, results. So it™s odd that it would cause a flare-up, except I can™t think of what else may have.

So you ended up just going back to myo-inositol at a higher dose? What dose, in milligrams, do you take (mine is already in a tablet, so I can™t compare teaspoons or whatever)? According to the video I posted from the Chiral Balance website, myo-inositol works differently from chiro-inositol¦ I wonder if I need both? Should I up my dose?

I™m thinking CAREFULLY about starting DIM if things don™t clear up soon. I™m really scared about the increase in free testosterone that people talk about causing a breakout but, on the other hand, I™ve been in this renewed struggle for over a year now with little relief. And you said DIM did not cause an IB for you and has actually helped loads, right? Having PCOS, DIM makes sense”because it is a high estrogen and high androgen problem. I™m still on sprio though and GreenGables said she had a horrendous breakout from combining the two. Until my skin gets settled, I™m not comfortable dropping spiro, for fear of a rebound effect. Do you think DIM is a good idea, given my situation? What do you think about this brand (it™s the same Canadian company that makes my inositol (Glucosmart))? [Edited link out]

I read the thread that you linked in, I™m confused. Can you please dumb this down for me”how are digestive enzymes related to cortisteriods?

Thank you!

B

On 7/27/2014 at 3:50 AM, WishClean said:

 

On 7/27/2014 at 3:50 AM, WishClean said:

 

Thanks. I agree that doctors prescribe antibiotics left and right, but it was take the antibiotics or take the piercing out (it was so swollen that my ear was practically absorbing the piercing), so I figured it was worth a try. This area probably becomes infected easily because of contact with phones, shampoo, etc.. I have decided to stop the antibiotic and just treat it topically now that the swelling has gone down and also in order to not further reduce my inositol.

All the extra ingredients in Estrosmart apparently have a related purpose and it is the most common brand in my area, and since Ive had a good experience with Glucosmart, I figure it might be a good idea to stick to a reputable brand. Is indole-3-carbinol supposed to be good for acne (its also in Estrosmart)?

What is your DIM dose again? What dose do you think would be good for the Estrosmart to start with, the website recommends 4-6 but I want to start slow, while still having some effect? Have you stayed at your lowered doses of inositol and DIM?

I am nervous to try DIM with spiro but I think if I added DIMor anything reallyI might not see positive effects if I drop spiro because a worse breakout from stopping spiro is (almost) inevitable. What if I take them 12 hours apart? Is there no way to take herbs and pharmaceuticals together?

I have followed the thread but it seemed a little frantic, and some terms seemed to be used interchangeably, so I guess I had a hard time following. So the enzymes are a component of the digestive enzymes? And the enzymes work similarly to the prescription she takes in what way?

On 7/27/2014 at 4:48 AM, WishClean said:

Yeah, but if we took everything prescribed to us, we'd probably be pill poppers by now Oh, I had a helix piercing infection too....and then I gave up on piercing altogether. it seems like it's one of the most common places for the ear to become infected. Maybe try a topical antibiotic, or something milder/cream like neosporin?

Yes, maybe taking both forms of inositol could help you. There's also another form, inositol hexaniacinate, which is basically a form of another B vitamin, niacin...I think that might help you too, but I haven't tried it. The only niacin I take is in the vitamin water I drink, but I think it helps a bit.

As you know from my pre-DIM posts, I was scared of taking it too, but I truly believe that those who claim it raises testosterone just haven't studied DIM closely enough. Wikipedia lists it as the most potent herbal antiandrogen (not that wikipedia is that reliable, but there is some truth to that statement). Some women on acne.org have tried estrosmart, I haven't. I take olympian labs DIM, and I'm nervous about switching to something else because this one only contains DIM...I would be wary of any other ingredients, although companies like Nature's Way and Estosmart's manufacturers claim that the extra ingredients help absorption. But if that's your only option in Canada, then why not? I don't think you should mix spiro with DIM, though...herbs and hormonal meds don't usually mix... maybe lower the spiro a lot, then add DIM and try to take them many hours apart.

Btw, I try to take my DIM after a meal (whereas I take 1/8 spoon of inositol on an empty stomach) because I read that fat helps it become better absorbed.

follow the thread on hyperplasia...I'm not sure the enzymes the poster mentioned are digestive...but the digestive enzymes supplements I take also contain other types of enzymes, and I'm wondering if those are helping my hormones in addition to my digestion...

On 7/27/2014 at 4:24 AM, brenmc said:

Thanks for the quick reply WishClean! The antibiotic dose does seem crazy high, but thats what was prescribed to me. I called the piercing place and based on how swollen my ear had become (its a helix piercing, upper ear) they recommended I go to a clinic and the doctor recommended the antibiotics. So here I am. Its a week-long course. In the early to mid-2000s, I took antibiotics of all shapes and sizes to control my acne to positive, short-term, results. So its odd that it would cause a flare-up, except I cant think of what else may have.

So you ended up just going back to myo-inositol at a higher dose? What dose, in milligrams, do you take (mine is already in a tablet, so I cant compare teaspoons or whatever)? According to the video I posted from the Chiral Balance website, myo-inositol works differently from chiro-inositol I wonder if I need both? Should I up my dose?

Im thinking CAREFULLY about starting DIM if things dont clear up soon. Im really scared about the increase in free testosterone that people talk about causing a breakout but, on the other hand, Ive been in this renewed struggle for over a year now with little relief. And you said DIM did not cause an IB for you and has actually helped loads, right? Having PCOS, DIM makes sensebecause it is a high estrogen and high androgen problem. Im still on sprio though and GreenGables said she had a horrendous breakout from combining the two. Until my skin gets settled, Im not comfortable dropping spiro, for fear of a rebound effect. Do you think DIM is a good idea, given my situation? What do you think about this brand (its the same Canadian company that makes my inositol (Glucosmart))? [Edited link out]

I read the thread that you linked in, Im confused. Can you please dumb this down for mehow are digestive enzymes related to cortisteriods?

Thank you!

B

On Invalid Date at NaN:NaN PM, WishClean said:

On 7/27/2014 at 3:50 AM, WishClean said:

Hey WishClean and hearts and everyone,

I was reading the FAQs on the company website for the Estrosmart product (which contains DIM, Calcium-D-Glucarate and Inole-3-Carbinol as active ingredients) and the company states it is common to have an initial breakout from taking this pill. Obviously, I dont want this, so Im thinking of starting with one pill, rather than the two to four they recommend. What do you think? Hearts, did you have an initial breakout on DIM (I tried finding your post about your experience and couldnt)? WishClean, do you think the initial breakout could be avoided at a low dose or does that matter? What do you think about the other ingredients, you tried calcium-d-glucarate, right? Also, I will be taking it 12 hours apart from spiro to hopefully reduce any potential negative interaction. As soon as (and god hopefully soon!) my skin gets under control I plan to wean off of spiro slowly. My hypothesis is that spiro, like birth control pills, may have exacerbated estrogen dominance symptoms in me after long-term use. Therefore, it wouldnt be that its not working but that I have estrogen dominance-caused acne rather than androgen-caused acne now. Does that make sense?

Indole-3-carbinol (I3C) is the precursor to DIM. From what I found back in researching the differences between the two, DIM is more stable and has less potential side effects. Here is an article that explains some differences, about half way down the page. I want to point out that it also says the following:

Since diindolylmethane does not induce the wide array of enzymes that I3C does, there is less of a chance of interaction with other nutrients, hormones or medications. With I3C, antacids and heartburn medications will tend to change an individuals response due to I3Cs dependence on stomach pH for activation.

It would personally make me nervous to take spiro while taking I3C, where it wouldn't with DIM. Also, it's just my opinion but I don't recommend taking one of those cocktail supplements... you wouldn't be able to know if DIM was helping and CDG was making things worse, for example. I have heard of people having IBs from CDG but of course that's not the case for everyone. I have also read a lot of success stories with Estrosmart, etc. so who knows.

I don't see any problem with taking half the dose and working up if it's not helping enough. My bet would be that a lower dose would give a smaller initial breakout if that were to happen not prevent it, though. To answer your question, no I did not have an initial breakout with DIM. It worked slowly and subtly until I was just totally clear, about 4 months.

And I agree with your spiro hypothesis. It definitely raised my estrogen levels, even though it's not really supposed to. However, if your acne is caused by excess estrogen or androgens, either way DIM helps with both.

Thanks so much for replying hearts! Yikes, what you said about i-3-c and c-d-g makes me nervous! Is the initial breakout with these two almost inevitable then? In the success stories you read about Estrosmart, did they mention an initial breakout?

I bought the Estrosmart because I take the Glucosmart by the same line. But you think just plain DIM would be safer with spiro? The article mentions i-3-c's interaction with birth control pills, so that makes sense. And DIM addresses androgens and estrogen? I obviously have an issue with both, based on my PCOS symptoms. What dose of DIM did you take? What brand?

Thank you!

PS

Did you delete your topic on DIM, I couldnt find it?

Indole-3-carbinol (I3C) is the precursor to DIM. From what I found back in researching the differences between the two, DIM is more stable and has less potential side effects. Here is an article that explains some differences, about half way down the page. I want to point out that it also says the following:

Since diindolylmethane does not induce the wide array of enzymes that I3C does, there is less of a chance of interaction with other nutrients, hormones or medications. With I3C, antacids and heartburn medications will tend to change an individuals response due to I3Cs dependence on stomach pH for activation.

It would personally make me nervous to take spiro while taking I3C, where it wouldn't with DIM. Also, it's just my opinion but I don't recommend taking one of those cocktail supplements... you wouldn't be able to know if DIM was helping and CDG was making things worse, for example. I have heard of people having IBs from CDG but of course that's not the case for everyone. I have also read a lot of success stories with Estrosmart, etc. so who knows.

I don't see any problem with taking half the dose and working up if it's not helping enough. My bet would be that a lower dose would give a smaller initial breakout if that were to happen not prevent it, though. To answer your question, no I did not have an initial breakout with DIM. It worked slowly and subtly until I was just totally clear, about 4 months.

And I agree with your spiro hypothesis. It definitely raised my estrogen levels, even though it's not really supposed to. However, if your acne is caused by excess estrogen or androgens, either way DIM helps with both.

Hey WishClean and hearts,

I posted this in the "DIM Plus" topic but I decided to post here too just to be sure my response would be seen. I decided Estrosmart is too risky given what you said hearts and the link you provided. Hearts, I saw on the aforementioned thread that you take DIM Plus. I am restricted from ordering supplements from Amazon here in Canada, so I can't get that brand. This brand is what is available to me in my town: [Edited link out]What do you think? It makes me nervous because of the comment re body builders bumping their testosterone and also the packaging looks like all those supplements and protein powders body builders use. Also, it contains AstraGin (from Ginseng) is this harmful at all or does it affect hormones at all?J

Edit: Just found this quote on AstraGin: "AstraGin is a combination of Panax Notoginseng and Astragalus Membranaceous and increases amino acid absorption by up to 66% and vitamin and mineral absorption by up to 50%. What does this mean? It means you need a lot less of the goods to do a lot more. AtraGin doesnt stop there, however. It is also insulin mimetic meaning it increases glycogen uptake in muscles for up to 24 hours. More glycogen in our muscles means more growth and recovery and less glucose stored as fat. AstraGin also increases insulin sensitivity which further aids in the above mentioned process." What do you think? I probably don't want to further increase my insulin sensitivity, do I?

On 7/29/2014 at 12:36 AM, brenmc said:

Thanks so much for replying hearts! Yikes, what you said about i-3-c and c-d-g makes me nervous! Is the initial breakout with these two almost inevitable then? In the success stories you read about Estrosmart, did they mention an initial breakout?

I bought the Estrosmart because I take the Glucosmart by the same line. But you think just plain DIM would be safer with spiro? The article mentions i-3-c's interaction with birth control pills, so that makes sense. And DIM addresses androgens and estrogen? I obviously have an issue with both, based on my PCOS symptoms. What dose of DIM did you take? What brand?

Thank you!

PS

Did you delete your topic on DIM, I couldn™t find it?

Oh, I didn't mean to scare you! It's not inevitable... not everyone gets an IB with any of these supplements. You may be perfectly fine with Estrosmart, no initial breakouts or anything. I am just trying to give you more information to think about. I considered taking CDG before DIM but after reading anecdotes of girls breaking out from it, I decided to try DIM which had fewer of those stories. I3C does make me nervous if you are taking other medications alongside it, though. In fact, it even says on my bottle of DIM that it is superior to I3C because of it's instability. I'm not super knowledgable on I3C though, so you can take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

WishClean, am I totally remembering incorrectly or did you try CDG for a little while?

If I remember right, Estrosmart reviews are about the same as other DIM supplements... mixed. It works better for some than others. An IB wouldn't be predictable from these stories. I'm not trying to push you into using it, but the only real way to know would be to try it. [Edited link out] are some threads on the actual Estrosmart acne board, though!

I took Nature's Way DIM Plus. When I started taking it I was living with my parents who live less than 5 miles from Nature's Way in Utah, so the entire brand was easily obtainable locally and I trusted them. I live in Denver, Colorado now (500 miles away) and I see Nature's Way products here, but not as much of a selection. I took 100mg (two capsules daily) but I was impatient after a month or so and to speed things up I took 150mg (three capsules) for a few months. After I was clear, I lowered the dose back down to 100mg. DIM Plus isn't that expensive ($18 a bottle ” $9 a month) but I actually bought a bottle of plain DIM from Piping Rock which I was going to try. It's super cheap ($7 a bottle of 90) and each capsule is 100mg so it would have lasted me three months! I weaned off before trying it, though so it is just sitting in my cabinet unopened, haha. I buy other supplements from Piping Rock (l-cysteine, etc.) and they are great so I imagine that DIM would be good from them too. Not sure if they ship to Canada... If you want me to, I could try to mail you the bottle.

DIM does help with excess estrogen (supports estrogen metabolism) and it is a natural anti-androgen as well. If you suspect that both are a problem, it could be very beneficial to you.

I do think if you want to stay on spiro and add DIM, taking a plain DIM supplement would be the safest and have less risk of side effects. Ultimately it's up to you and what you're most comfortable with, though! Ginseng is supposed to be a hormone regulator, and it can also affect blood sugar. I took it for a few weeks (hoping to help hypoglycemia) and saw no difference in absolutely anything, but maybe that wasn't long enough. I just really need to remember to eat to control blood sugar.

Oh, and I did have my thread removed. It had spiraled out of control and I'm strongly considering starting a website that is completely focused on balancing hormones naturally. I repeat myself so many times on other threads and in PMs so I think it would be good to have my experiences and research mostly all in one place.

P.S. To update anyone following my progress with quitting inositol... it has been a little over a month. My skin and hair are still great but I haven't been able to drop the weight, yet. I realize I was taking it for 6 months and it might take a little longer for my hormones to readjust, so I'll continue to be patient.

Sorry for the long post.

Please do not apologize for the long post, I appreciate the detailed information.

I™m glad you told me about the instability of indole-3-carbinol, it is in higher quantities in Estrosmart than DIM, so it™s probably not a good idea. Not to mention that I saw comments regarding initial breakouts on the Estrosmart company website itself!

That™s so sweet of you to offer to send me a bottle; I™ll keep looking on vitamin websites that send to Canada, and let you know if I absolutely can™t find it. But, ultimately, you would recommend Nature™s Way if I can get my hands on it?

I don™t know if I should take the brand that has AstraGin in it because I™m on metformin and inositol right now as well. Not sure if you saw my edited post but see above, I posted a quote on AstraGin that is worrying.

I called around town and I also found this version available at a grocery store about 40 minutes from my house: http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products/Womens-Health/PMS-Support/05333-EstroBalance.aspx . Which is better, this one or the SD brand I linked to in my other post?

You should start a website or blog! You are so empathetic and knowledgeable, an excellent combination regarding women™s health issues.

On 7/29/2014 at 2:41 AM, hearts said:

On 7/29/2014 at 12:36 AM, brenmc said:

Thanks so much for replying hearts! Yikes, what you said about i-3-c and c-d-g makes me nervous! Is the initial breakout with these two almost inevitable then? In the success stories you read about Estrosmart, did they mention an initial breakout?
I bought the Estrosmart because I take the Glucosmart by the same line. But you think just plain DIM would be safer with spiro? The article mentions i-3-c's interaction with birth control pills, so that makes sense. And DIM addresses androgens and estrogen? I obviously have an issue with both, based on my PCOS symptoms. What dose of DIM did you take? What brand?
Thank you!
PS
Did you delete your topic on DIM, I couldn™t find it?

Oh, I didn't mean to scare you! It's not inevitable... not everyone gets an IB with any of these supplements. You may be perfectly fine with Estrosmart, no initial breakouts or anything. I am just trying to give you more information to think about. I considered taking CDG before DIM but after reading anecdotes of girls breaking out from it, I decided to try DIM which had fewer of those stories. I3C does make me nervous if you are taking other medications alongside it, though. In fact, it even says on my bottle of DIM that it is superior to I3C because of it's instability. I'm not super knowledgable on I3C though, so you can take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

WishClean, am I totally remembering incorrectly or did you try CDG for a little while?

If I remember right, Estrosmart reviews are about the same as other DIM supplements... mixed. It works better for some than others. An IB wouldn't be predictable from these stories. I'm not trying to push you into using it, but the only real way to know would be to try it. [Edited link out] are some threads on the actual Estrosmart acne board, though!

I took Nature's Way DIM Plus. When I started taking it I was living with my parents who live less than 5 miles from Nature's Way in Utah, so the entire brand was easily obtainable locally and I trusted them. I live in Denver, Colorado now (500 miles away) and I see Nature's Way products here, but not as much of a selection. I took 100mg (two capsules daily) but I was impatient after a month or so and to speed things up I took 150mg (three capsules) for a few months. After I was clear, I lowered the dose back down to 100mg. DIM Plus isn't that expensive ($18 a bottle ” $9 a month) but I actually bought a bottle of plain DIM from Piping Rock which I was going to try. It's super cheap ($7 a bottle of 90) and each capsule is 100mg so it would have lasted me three months! I weaned off before trying it, though so it is just sitting in my cabinet unopened, haha. I buy other supplements from Piping Rock (l-cysteine, etc.) and they are great so I imagine that DIM would be good from them too. Not sure if they ship to Canada... If you want me to, I could try to mail you the bottle.

DIM does help with excess estrogen (supports estrogen metabolism) and it is a natural anti-androgen as well. If you suspect that both are a problem, it could be very beneficial to you.

I do think if you want to stay on spiro and add DIM, taking a plain DIM supplement would be the safest and have less risk of side effects. Ultimately it's up to you and what you're most comfortable with, though! Ginseng is supposed to be a hormone regulator, and it can also affect blood sugar. I took it for a few weeks (hoping to help hypoglycemia) and saw no difference in absolutely anything, but maybe that wasn't long enough. I just really need to remember to eat to control blood sugar.

Oh, and I did have my thread removed. It had spiraled out of control and I'm strongly considering starting a website that is completely focused on balancing hormones naturally. I repeat myself so many times on other threads and in PMs so I think it would be good to have my experiences and research mostly all in one place.

P.S. To update anyone following my progress with quitting inositol... it has been a little over a month. My skin and hair are still great but I haven't been able to drop the weight, yet. I realize I was taking it for 6 months and it might take a little longer for my hormones to readjust, so I'll continue to be patient.

Sorry for the long post.

Please do not apologize for the long post, I appreciate the detailed information.

Im glad you told me about the instability of indole-3-carbinol, it is in higher quantities in Estrosmart than DIM, so its probably not a good idea. Not to mention that I saw comments regarding initial breakouts on the Estrosmart company website itself!

Thats so sweet of you to offer to send me a bottle; Ill keep looking on vitamin websites that send to Canada, and let you know if I absolutely cant find it. But, ultimately, you would recommend Natures Way if I can get my hands on it?

I dont know if I should take the brand that has AstraGin in it because Im on metformin and inositol right now as well. Not sure if you saw my edited post but see above, I posted a quote on AstraGin that is worrying.

I called around town and I also found this version available at a grocery store about 40 minutes from my house: http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products/Womens-Health/PMS-Support/05333-EstroBalance.aspx . Which is better, this one or the SD brand I linked to in my other post?

You should start a website or blog! You are so empathetic and knowledgeable, an excellent combination regarding womens health issues.

Aw thank you! (:

I do like Nature's Way because I used it myself, but I'm sure there are other brands that are good as well. Have you looked at http://www.amazon.ca/Natures-Way-Dim-Plus-120-capsules/dp/B00014IGXS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406588370&sr=8-1&keywords=dim+plus ? It's the Nature's Way DIM Plus on Amazon Canada.

Between the two that you linked, the EstroBalance sounds way better in my opinion. It actually looks really close to DIM plus, with added calcium which is a good thing for women. Just make sure you take at least a little vitamin D or get some sun to better absorb the calcium. If I had to choose between the two I would definitely go with that one.

Hey hearts,

For some reason when I went to amazon.ca and tried to purchase it, at the payment stage it said 'cannot be delivered to your location' or whatever. Perhaps because I live on an island? I don't know. Thankfully, my mom found Nature's Way DIM Plus on another website that would deliver to my location! So I am happily awaiting the Nature's Way brand. I decided it would be best to wait for that one because it has such fantastic reviews.

I'm not sure how much to take because each capsule only contains about 12.5mg of actual DIM, I believe. It does have the added mgs of broccoli and cauliflower powder. How many pills/day did you start with and what do you think a good dose is for me, given my situation?

I know it's been said that it's not a great idea to take DIM with spiro, but I was thinking about it and I don't really understand why that would be, since DIM is also an anti-androgen, why would that have a negative interaction? Either way, I do plan to wean off of spiro if I see improvement with DIM.

Do you have any tips for me while taking DIM Plus? Is there a time of day that I should take it? Should I drink extra water to flush toxins out that way?

Thanks!

 

Please do not apologize for the long post, I appreciate the detailed information.

Im glad you told me about the instability of indole-3-carbinol, it is in higher quantities in Estrosmart than DIM, so its probably not a good idea. Not to mention that I saw comments regarding initial breakouts on the Estrosmart company website itself!

Thats so sweet of you to offer to send me a bottle; Ill keep looking on vitamin websites that send to Canada, and let you know if I absolutely cant find it. But, ultimately, you would recommend Natures Way if I can get my hands on it?

I dont know if I should take the brand that has AstraGin in it because Im on metformin and inositol right now as well. Not sure if you saw my edited post but see above, I posted a quote on AstraGin that is worrying.

I called around town and I also found this version available at a grocery store about 40 minutes from my house: http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products/Womens-Health/PMS-Support/05333-EstroBalance.aspx . Which is better, this one or the SD brand I linked to in my other post?

You should start a website or blog! You are so empathetic and knowledgeable, an excellent combination regarding womens health issues.

Aw thank you! (:

I do like Nature's Way because I used it myself, but I'm sure there are other brands that are good as well. Have you looked at http://www.amazon.ca/Natures-Way-Dim-Plus-120-capsules/dp/B00014IGXS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406588370&sr=8-1&keywords=dim+plus ? It's the Nature's Way DIM Plus on Amazon Canada.

Between the two that you linked, the EstroBalance sounds way better in my opinion. It actually looks really close to DIM plus, with added calcium which is a good thing for women. Just make sure you take at least a little vitamin D or get some sun to better absorb the calcium. If I had to choose between the two I would definitely go with that one.

Hey hearts,

 

For some reason when I went to amazon.ca and tried to purchase it, at the payment stage it said 'cannot be delivered to your location' or whatever. Perhaps because I live on an island? I don't know. Thankfully, my mom found Nature's Way DIM Plus on another website that would deliver to my location! So I am happily awaiting the Nature's Way brand. I decided it would be best to wait for that one because it has such fantastic reviews.

 

I'm not sure how much to take because each capsule only contains about 12.5mg of actual DIM, I believe. It does have the added mgs of broccoli and cauliflower powder. How many pills/day did you start with and what do you think a good dose is for me, given my situation?

 

I know it's been said that it's not a great idea to take DIM with spiro, but I was thinking about it and I don't really understand why that would be, since DIM is also an anti-androgen, why would that have a negative interaction? Either way, I do plan to wean off of spiro if I see improvement with DIM.

 

Do you have any tips for me while taking DIM Plus? Is there a time of day that I should take it? Should I drink extra water to flush toxins out that way?

 

Thanks!

Awesome! I'm glad that you were able to find a place that ships it to you. (: Each capsule contains 50mg DIM complex, so 2 capsules is 100mg and the recommended dose. I don't know where you read 12.5mg but you'll see when you get the bottle that it says 100mg per serving. It also has 100mg of veggie powders, so technically each serving is 200mg of total supplement (though not all DIM). I really like the capsules because they are quite small compared to a lot of supplements.

How much spiro are you taking, again? If you have bad painful acne, I would personally just start at 100mg (2 capsules). You can choose to work up if you want, but from my own experience of not working my way up, it doesn't matter. I just wanted to get clear and like I said I even took 150mg to speed things up for a while. I had a bunch of cystic and those hard nodules like you described in the other post, along with a little non-inflamed stuff and DIM cleared all of it. You can always lower the dose once you're clear if you want later. But again, do what you want... you don't have to take my advice!

As far as recommendations for taking it... it's good to take it with food, at least in the beginning. It even suggests this on the bottle. The only and temporary side effect that I had was some mild stomach cramping. I read another review on Amazon of someone having that problem as well, and they said food helped. It's probably gas generated from the vegetables or something, haha. I am particularly susceptible to stomach cramping though, like when I eat too much. Anyway, that went away within a couple weeks. After that I could take it on an empty stomach no problem. I don't think time of day matters, though it's maybe worth taking note that testosterone/androgens are higher in the morning. You could space it out from spiro if you want. Since I was taking two capsules a day, I just took one first thing in the morning and one before going to sleep.

Plenty of water is good for you no matter what you are taking! (:

I really hope that it works for you! I can't think of a reason why it would necessarily be dangerous to take with spiro, but just try to pay attention to how you are feeling while taking both and go from there.

Thanks for the reply hearts! I am so grateful to you, WishClean and the other women on this forum whom have helped me tremendously! I wish I could send you all flowers.

I wonder where I got that 12.5mg number from; it must just be crossed wires since I was comparing several brands yesterday.

Im currently taking 100mg of spiro but Im eager to find another solution (hopefully DIM) because either its not working or it has created a new issue (estrogen dominance), as I continue to breakout. However, from my past experience with quitting birth control, I know it is not wise to quit hormonal treatments cold turkey. I have been anxious about taking spiro with DIM because of the post GreenGables made about breaking out in sevenor something like thatnodules when she added DIM to her spiro regimen. Also, WishClean mentioned on this thread about how its not good to mix herbal and hormonal treatments. Rationally, I understand that DIM might not have been right for GreenGables for other reasons, but I guess Im just a worrier.

I do feel fairly confident (now that I know what it is) that I have estrogen dominance. I suppose Ive been reluctant to try something like DIM or other estrogen dominance treatments because Ive only recently come to understand that estrogen can lead to acne, I always thought estrogen helped acne. Its also hard to diagnose estrogen dominance because many of the symptoms are vague or applicable to many other issues.

So you found it took a total of four months until DIM cleared things up for you, but when did you start noticing improvement?

I read your comment about dropping the weight from inositol, hang in there, it will happen very soon. And you can always try to get myo-inositol from food, if you decide you still want to boost your inositol intake. Id presume sourcing inositol from food (nuts, seeds, beans, cantaloupe, and citrus) would reduce the chances of gaining weight, since your bodyoften processes food more efficiently than supplements.

Thank you so much for the encouragement about losing the weight caused by inositol! It makes me feel better. (: 10-15lbs makes a big difference on my frame and like you said before, it won't budge even if I work out extra hard. I agree that eating the right foods can give me enough if I feel that I need it later. I found the following list on the SoulCysters forum in a thread about it causing some girls to gain weight from it. I think I can manage to eat some extra hummus if required. (;

Lecithin contains 2100mg per 100g
Chick Peas contains 760 mg per 100g
Brown Rice contains 700 mg per 100g
Wheat Germ contains 690 mg per 100g
Oranges contains 210 mg per 100g
Peas contain 160 mg per 100g
Grapefruit contain 150 mg per 100g
Strawberries contain 95 mg per 100g
Cauliflower contains 92 mg per 100g

I'll respond to the DIM related stuff on your other thread here: I just realized that WishClean's thread was jacked by our DIM discussion. Sorry, WishClean! ):

Thanks hearts. I'll talk to you on my thread. Sorry too WishClean!

B

PS

I'm sure you still look great hearts.

Thank you so much for the encouragement about losing the weight caused by inositol! It makes me feel better. (: 10-15lbs makes a big difference on my frame and like you said before, it won't budge even if I work out extra hard. I agree that eating the right foods can give me enough if I feel that I need it later. I found the following list on the SoulCysters forum in a thread about it causing some girls to gain weight from it. I think I can manage to eat some extra hummus if required. (;

Lecithin contains 2100mg per 100g
Chick Peas contains 760 mg per 100g
Brown Rice contains 700 mg per 100g
Wheat Germ contains 690 mg per 100g
Oranges contains 210 mg per 100g
Peas contain 160 mg per 100g
Grapefruit contain 150 mg per 100g
Strawberries contain 95 mg per 100g
Cauliflower contains 92 mg per 100g

I'll respond to the DIM related stuff on your other thread here: I just realized that WishClean's thread was jacked by our DIM discussion. Sorry, WishClean! ):

Hi ladies, sorry I missed some of these posts. Feel free to continue the discussion here, anything can help others too.

@ hearts, I do think inositol makes me a bit bloated too sometimes...that's why I lowered it along with DIM. I think DIM sometimes makes me a bit bloated too, depending on the time of the month. Ironically, they are both supposed to be really helpful for weight loss, but --as I mentioned before -- I think that only works for people who were overweight to begin with.

For inositol dosage, I would say don't take anything over 1000mg per day. And even with 1000mg, it's best to break it down into 2 doses, one early in the day & one later in the evening. Yes, it can't cause toxicity, but you are essentially megadosing, which is never good. Plus, megadosing SOME vitamins and not others can deplete other B vitamins. Also, by taking that much, it won't work faster....it's not a "more is more" approach with supplements.

Thanks hearts. I'll talk to you on my thread. Sorry too WishClean!

B

PS

I'm sure you still look great hearts.

Pshaw thanks <3

Hi ladies, sorry I missed some of these posts. Feel free to continue the discussion here, anything can help others too.

@ hearts, I do think inositol makes me a bit bloated too sometimes...that's why I lowered it along with DIM. I think DIM sometimes makes me a bit bloated too, depending on the time of the month. Ironically, they are both supposed to be really helpful for weight loss, but --as I mentioned before -- I think that only works for people who were overweight to begin with.

For inositol dosage, I would say don't take anything over 1000mg per day. And even with 1000mg, it's best to break it down into 2 doses, one early in the day & one later in the evening. Yes, it can't cause toxicity, but you are essentially megadosing, which is never good. Plus, megadosing SOME vitamins and not others can deplete other B vitamins. Also, by taking that much, it won't work faster....it's not a "more is more" approach with supplements.

Thanks WishClean! Do you take DIM with food? Bloating was never a problem for me on DIM, but I also didn't lose weight on it, either. NPC can help with bloat, so maybe that prevented it for me.

Good point about how megadosing some vitamins can put others off balance. The strange thing is, I was/am taking plenty of a regular B complex. I was also only taking 250mg inositol. Eh... whatever now, I guess. Not sure if it lowered my testosterone a bit or what to cause weight gain.

Inositol does lower testosterone, so that is likely it. Maybe you could try adding in DIM temporarily to restore your estrogen:testosterone balance?

Thanks WishClean! Do you take DIM with food? Bloating was never a problem for me on DIM, but I also didn't lose weight on it, either. NPC can help with bloat, so maybe that prevented it for me.

Good point about how megadosing some vitamins can put others off balance. The strange thing is, I was/am taking plenty of a regular B complex. I was also only taking 250mg inositol. Eh... whatever now, I guess. Not sure if it lowered my testosterone a bit or what to cause weight gain.

Yes, I usually take DIM after a meal. I read that it gets absorbed better with some fat, so I try to take it after the largest meal of the day.

I agree with brenmc, maybe your testosterone dropped too low... I guess time will tell, and hopefully everything will balance out again

Just to update, in case anyone has experienced the same weight gain from myo inositol... [to catch anyone up, I took inositol for 6 months to stop hair shedding, which worked] it has been a little over 4 months since quitting inositol/choline (stopped June 16), but the weight has yet to come off. Frustrating... I currently weigh 130lbs, when my "normal" weight is 110-115lbs without effort. I'm not sure if my testosterone is still lower or it triggered some insulin resistance or what. Anyway, I'm still looking into it and will update after some more time. If anyone has any suggestions for me please let me know. I could use the help! Thanks all! (:

I am currently taking: multivitamin, calcium, zinc (in hopes to raise testosterone), fish oil, vitamin D3, b-complex, l-cysteine, natural progesterone cream. Skin is still great, so I'd rather not take DIM again unless I have to. I also started taking some betaine hcl (with pepsin) again a few days ago hoping it could help with the weight and bloating.

Just to update, in case anyone has experienced the same weight gain from myo inositol... [to catch anyone up, I took inositol for 6 months to stop hair shedding, which worked] it has been a little over 4 months since quitting inositol/choline (stopped June 16), but the weight has yet to come off. Frustrating... I currently weigh 130lbs, when my "normal" weight is 110-115lbs without effort. I'm not sure if my testosterone is still lower or it triggered some insulin resistance or what. Anyway, I'm still looking into it and will update after some more time. If anyone has any suggestions for me please let me know. I could use the help! Thanks all! (:

I am currently taking: multivitamin, calcium, zinc (in hopes to raise testosterone), fish oil, vitamin D3, b-complex, l-cysteine, natural progesterone cream. Skin is still great, so I'd rather not take DIM again unless I have to. I also started taking some betaine hcl (with pepsin) again a few days ago hoping it could help with the weight and bloating.

Hey hearts,

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear you still haven't lost the weight...but at least the hair shedding stopped and inositol helped you with that. As I said before, thin women seem to experience some weight gain on inositol, whereas overweight women (Esp. with PCOS) use it for weight loss. My guess is that, in lowering your testosterone, inositol has tipped the balance towards estrogen. Since you had estrogen dominance before, DIM might be the way to go once again until you lose the weight. For me personally, DIM seems to make me a bit bloated on certain days of the month, but maybe for you it can help with weight loss.

I recently re-added evening primrose to my regime, which for some women it can help with weight loss. Evening primrose & vitex helped me lose weight the first time I took them coming off of birth control.