^^ Low progesterone and/or high estrogen can also cause acne, even if testosterone is within "normal" levels.

Estrogen neutralizes testosterone

Progesterone neutralizes estrogen

Testosterone acts like a progestogen.

The reason some women only get cyclical acne during ovulation is that estrogen drops and testosterone increases. They get increases testosterone plus loose the neutralizing effects of estrogen.

Some women also get acne just before menses. This is because testosterone remains unchanged and estradiol drops off. So, estrogen is not available to neutralize testosterone and sebum production is stimulated.

As a side note, testostl

^^ Low progesterone and/or high estrogen can also cause acne, even if testosterone is within "normal" levels.

Estrogen neutralizes testosterone

Progesterone neutralizes estrogen

Testosterone acts like a progestogen.

The reason some women only get cyclical acne during ovulation is that estrogen drops and testosterone increases. They get increases testosterone plus loose the neutralizing effects of estrogen.

Some women also get acne just before menses. This is because testosterone remains unchanged and estradiol drops off. So, estrogen is not available to neutralize testosterone and sebum production is stimulated.

As a side note, the testosterone source can be adrenal or ovarian. To know where it's coming from you need to know the LH/FSH ratio.

Thanks WishClean!

I am especially interested in the mechanism at play in becoming resistant to hormonal medications (antibiotics are obvious), as well as learning the best medicines to take to reduce nodular acne, specifically.

I completely identify exactly with those symptoms of feeling faint and needing something sweet to prevent me from passing out! It's actually a bit scary sometimes.

My acne is definitely hormonal. And I do have some of the estrogen dominance symptoms. However, I'm way too scared to take DIM because of the high potential for an IB.

Good luck at your doctor's tomorrow! Keep us updated!

Hey! No worries, I usually log in to procrastinate from other things, haha. Sorry you had to get your nodule injected. Hopefully it was the last time. I get cold sores near my mouth, but they swell to the size of nodules sometimes, so it's hard to tell what they are. I only get them from food allergies, though, never hormonally. They always appear near my mouth. I also get the same ones if I use toothpaste/mouthwash with sulfates. It's so annoying, but at least if I avoid those things I never get them. Are yours hormonal?

Sure, I will ask the doctor why some medications stop working after a while, I'd be interested to know too. I will also ask her about combining treatments. She doesn't cut appointments short - she takes enough time to answer questions and discuss, that's why I like going to this office.

Hmm, not sure about how much D3 would be ideal.... it varies, depending on what source you check. Don't take too much though because it's not water soluble and can cause toxicity, but that's at doses much higher than what you are taking.

About insulin resistance...I think this was key for me as well, because my blood sugar used to get really low abruptly and I felt like I would pass out if I didn't eat something sweet. But this happened mostly while I was on birth control or when I used to eat candy every day. Now I hardly crave sugar anymore since changing my diet. I think maybe give myo-inositol a try, it can help with everything except regulating excess estrogen. And it might boost the effects of NPC, since it also helps with progesterone increase. But based on hearts' experience with NPC, I don't think it can help much with excess estrogen, if you have that too. It can regulate estrogen up to a point, mostly by boosting progesterone to balance the estrogen: progesterone ratio, but if you have too much estrogen you need something to filter it out of your body. That's why I'm trying calcium d-glucarate, and if that is too mild for me, I'll move on to DIM. For that, though, I want to wait until my hormone tests to be sure my estrogen is high. Do you have any estrogen dominance symptoms?

 

Hey WishClean. Sorry for the delayed reply, it has been a hectic week at school. I actually had three nodules, but had to have them injected because one was on the side of my mouth and made it so painful to eat. The one I referred to was particularly stubborn and did not go down with the injection. I have a couple on my cheeks at the moment, but they're not as bad as the ones I get on my chin.

I'm only taking one D3 pill, Swiss Naturals 1000IU. I'm wondering if I should take more because I live in a very overcast and grey climate?

The NPC is OK. I still have acne, so the ultimate purpose of taking it has not been realized, but I am trying to stay hopeful. However, lately I've really been thinking that the insulin component of PCOS could be the culprit to this onset of acne. Perhaps my glucosmart has lost effectiveness or my body has become used to it.

What a generous offer of you to ask your doctor any questions on my behalf! I do have a bunch of questions (because I don't have access to a specialist) but I don't want to bombard you. So I guess I'm really curious if she might have insight into why spiro or glucosmart may stop working or no longer work for an individual? And if there is anything complementary I could take to help facilitate NPC and/or spiro to work more effectively at controlling my acne? If you feel short on time, please do not feel obligated to make these inquired on my behalf. Even you just sharing the answers to your questions/experience would be very helpful.

Yeah, when blood sugar suddenly drops, it's very scary. I wonder if spiro abruptly lowers blood sugar, do you know? When I was on birth control, I used to nearly pass out from hypoglycemia, and at the time I didn't connect it to the pill, but once I was off it got better. However, I found that the best way to control insulin levels is by reducing processed sugar as much as possible and eating something every few hours.

The other thing is, the liver needs to be able to process all the stuff we take, including supplements. But for me the hardest thing to fix is the liver because I get bad detox acne from liver detoxifiers that work for other people, like milk thistle.

Btw, this info might explain why some women experience an initial breakout with DIM - it all relates to the liver. If your liver isn't filtering out toxins and excess hormones properly, you need to take something along with DIM (that's why some take calcium d-glucarate with it) to ensure that excess/xenoestrogens find their way out of your body through proper elimination pathways, not through your skin.

This is what a nutritionist on The Love Vitamin Website says. It applies to both Estroblock and DIM. There was also a very knowledgeable guy on acne.org who mentioned this as well, I found some of his old posts.

In order to effectively clear the bad estrogen from the body, a Phase II liver support is required such as the Liv-tox supplement. Phase II nutrients include amino acids such as cysteine and methionine, herbal remedies such as milk thistle.

And Phase III detoxification (as its now termed) needs to be supported through bowel clearance. So eating plenty of organic fruits and vegetable with the skin, exercising, pure water, having psyllium husk and slippery elm can aid with this.

Using Estroblock alone, ramps up Phase I which can cause headaches and a re-circulation of toxins into the blood stream, if this is not supported by Phase II.

So basically if detoxification pathways are not working properly, then DIM/ Estroblock can do more harm than good.

Hey brenmc, before I forget, I wanted to tell you what my doctor said about spiro & other hormonal medications not working after a while. It's basically what I thought too...she said anti-androgens can be slightly estrogenic, and after a long time they might increase your estrogen to the point of estrogen dominance. Therefore, if you are estrogen dominant, spiro isn't going to help you. Or, you may need to take both spiro and an estrogen regulator, depending on your hormones. She said when patients stop responding to spiro it's usually because they have issues with estrogen, and that she would recommend estrogen-targeted treatments before recommending progesterone cream. She wants me to research myomin to see if it's something I would consider taking so she can give it to me next time. It seems similar to DIM.

Anyway, I thought I'd share this. I thought it was interesting she recommended targeting estrogens primarily rather than progesterone.

The other possibility for spiro not working for you anymore might be that your body has trouble processing it, esp. if your liver is overloaded. I asked her about this, and she said it makes sense. She said some women take milk thistle occasionally to help detox the liver, but I personally won't go near that stuff anymore since I had an allergic reaction (but I'm guessing it's due to my histamine issues, not specifically milk thistle maybe, because I used to take a multi with milk thistle before I developed histamine problems).

Hi brenmc,

I just started using a natural progesterone cream about a week ago prescribed by a naturopath. I got hormone test done and it showed I have estrogen dominance and low progesterone. I used to only have a few pimples about 10 days or so before my period but then I tried a bunch of things to try to fix that, including a birth control pill, and I ended up making everything worse - should have gone to the naturopath and gotten the hormone test first. I didn't have insurance at the time and paid $150 for the hormone test plus about $300 for the naturopath but it's worth it considering all the money I've wasted trying to fix my skin without knowing the root cause (antibiotics, bcp, super expensive cleansers, you name it), so I'd highly recommend you see a naturopath or endocrinologist and get a hormone test. You can also order saliva hormone test kits online so you only have to pay for the test and not a doctor's visit, but it may be difficult for you to interpret the results on your own. Anyway, I thought I was supposed to put the npc on where the skin is thin, but I've read I'm actually supposed to be applying it where there are fat deposits, so I haven't been using it correctly. So far, I haven't seen a difference, but I think it's way too early to tell combined with my not using it properly. However, my skin has started to improve since I started to take Estroblock and Chromium (also prescribed by the naturopath - the Estroblock to metabolize excess estrogen and the Chromium to balance my blood sugar levels) I also take a women's multi-vitamin and Liv-tox to support the metabolic processes induced by the Estroblock. I've also found that the Mario Badescu acne-prone skin products help, especially the drying lotion and the acne serum. I only started all of this about a month ago, so it will take some time for me to see results. I'll keep you and the others interested in this topic posted. I am 27 and can't believe I have to deal with Acne!! I hope my experience can help other women suffering from hormonal acne. In addition, today I went to a spa and got a salicylic acid peel and microdermabrasion treatment to speed up the scar healing process. My treatment was super gentle, my face is kind of splotchy now, but I've read that you don't see results until after the skin peels. We'll see.

I hope things are starting to look up for you. Your doc is absolutely correct regarding the chromium. I had the same problem. It takes a while but chromium helps and now I rarely feel hypoglycemic.

When using transdermals be sure to rub back and forth at least ten times and cover a large area. This will allow full absorbsion into the skin and allow for a longer, more even distribution into the blood stream.

Just keep in mind that estrogen neutralizes testosterone. The reason you got acne 10 days or so before your period is that's about the time estrogen drops and testosterone increases at ovulation (actuall around days 13-15). So you get a double hit. Testosterone up plus you loose the neutralizing effects of estradiol.

Good luck.

Wow! Thanks! This makes a lot of sense. However, I'm not sure now what to do about the progesterone cream- I thought it would 'balance' my estrogen. And I am way too scared to add DIM. Let me know about your research on the IB potential of the CDG and myomin.

As for the sugar, I don't eat much and mostly eat organic and vegetarian, therefore pretty healthy. I'm not sure if the spiro impacts blood sugar.

Jlcampi- thanks but my skin is still bad .

Hey brenmc, before I forget, I wanted to tell you what my doctor said about spiro & other hormonal medications not working after a while. It's basically what I thought too...she said anti-androgens can be slightly estrogenic, and after a long time they might increase your estrogen to the point of estrogen dominance. Therefore, if you are estrogen dominant, spiro isn't going to help you. Or, you may need to take both spiro and an estrogen regulator, depending on your hormones. She said when patients stop responding to spiro it's usually because they have issues with estrogen, and that she would recommend estrogen-targeted treatments before recommending progesterone cream. She wants me to research myomin to see if it's something I would consider taking so she can give it to me next time. It seems similar to DIM.

Anyway, I thought I'd share this. I thought it was interesting she recommended targeting estrogens primarily rather than progesterone.

The other possibility for spiro not working for you anymore might be that your body has trouble processing it, esp. if your liver is overloaded. I asked her about this, and she said it makes sense. She said some women take milk thistle occasionally to help detox the liver, but I personally won't go near that stuff anymore since I had an allergic reaction (but I'm guessing it's due to my histamine issues, not specifically milk thistle maybe, because I used to take a multi with milk thistle before I developed histamine problems).

The doctor also said that progesterone creams take longer to work, but once they do, the improvement is stable, so maybe it's too early for you?

I am pretty sure that CGD broke me out...I seem to have gotten a few "detox" pimples, but this also coincides with my period, so I'm not sure I can blame the CGD. I also cut back on inositol during the days of my period to see if it would make a difference....too soon to tell.

I personally think it's possible to have both high estrogens and high androgens, I think that's what I have because I have symptoms of both. But, low progesterone can also cause facial hair and some of the same symptoms as high androgens/estrogen. So it's hard to know without testing. DHEA and FS can also play a part, as well as cortisol and thyroid. Too many players in the game unfortunately! I was disappointed that my insurance didn't cover any of the costs of saliva (or even urine) testing, so they had to draw blood for hormonal testing. But at least I went in on a day where I was very hormonal, so something has to show up even in the blood tests.

The doctor recommended myomin for estrogen dominance, and I did some research online and it has good reviews but acne isn't frequently mentioned. It doesn't seem to be as popular as DIM. I think I may need to try DIM first since there are way more acne reviews on it than myomin. I am scared of adding anything new too....I even stopped CGD for now until I get the lab results.

I did start taking l-glutathione again though to help with liver detoxification, and I always have good results with it. The doctor told me to keep taking it, so now I'm taking it in the form of an enzyme supplement called Free Radical Defenze. I have been taking that for 3 days, and the allergic swelling I had went down significantly...but maybe that's just a coincidense.

And I am still taking herpanacine, which is specifically for skin and has many good reviews online. Maybe this would be a good multi for you? It also contains a blend of gentle liver strengthening herbs...it's the only blend I can tolerate at this point, so it might work for you too. The doctor told me yesterday that I look more healthy than last time she saw me, so hopefully I'm doing something right.

The 2 most successful treatments I tried so far that kept me clear for about 2 years each (after moderate-severe acne) both involved treating my digestion/liver in addition to hormones, so I definitely think a holistic approach works best because it treats your overall wellbeing. But yeah, it's so frustrating to get everything right! At least we're trying!

Interesting, so according to your doctor, the NPC should help balance estrogen but it will just take longer than some other estrogen balancing treatments? I think I will try the multi- you suggested. It didn't cause any type of IB with the liver detoxing elements? Where do you purchase it?

That sucks that you got an IB from the CDG, but it very much could be a result of your period. It can be so hard to tell what™s a trigger, since some things show up right away and others may take a few days or even weeks to surface.

As far as my experience on NPC this week, I got my period and I have fairly bad cramps, which is frustrating because my cramps were greatly reduced on my first period after starting NPC. It seems as though things got better very quickly and then the initial positive effect has reduced.

The doctor also said that progesterone creams take longer to work, but once they do, the improvement is stable, so maybe it's too early for you?

I am pretty sure that CGD broke me out...I seem to have gotten a few "detox" pimples, but this also coincides with my period, so I'm not sure I can blame the CGD. I also cut back on inositol during the days of my period to see if it would make a difference....too soon to tell.

I personally think it's possible to have both high estrogens and high androgens, I think that's what I have because I have symptoms of both. But, low progesterone can also cause facial hair and some of the same symptoms as high androgens/estrogen. So it's hard to know without testing. DHEA and FS can also play a part, as well as cortisol and thyroid. Too many players in the game unfortunately! I was disappointed that my insurance didn't cover any of the costs of saliva (or even urine) testing, so they had to draw blood for hormonal testing. But at least I went in on a day where I was very hormonal, so something has to show up even in the blood tests.

The doctor recommended myomin for estrogen dominance, and I did some research online and it has good reviews but acne isn't frequently mentioned. It doesn't seem to be as popular as DIM. I think I may need to try DIM first since there are way more acne reviews on it than myomin. I am scared of adding anything new too....I even stopped CGD for now until I get the lab results.

I did start taking l-glutathione again though to help with liver detoxification, and I always have good results with it. The doctor told me to keep taking it, so now I'm taking it in the form of an enzyme supplement called Free Radical Defenze. I have been taking that for 3 days, and the allergic swelling I had went down significantly...but maybe that's just a coincidense.

And I am still taking herpanacine, which is specifically for skin and has many good reviews online. Maybe this would be a good multi for you? It also contains a blend of gentle liver strengthening herbs...it's the only blend I can tolerate at this point, so it might work for you too. The doctor told me yesterday that I look more healthy than last time she saw me, so hopefully I'm doing something right.

The 2 most successful treatments I tried so far that kept me clear for about 2 years each (after moderate-severe acne) both involved treating my digestion/liver in addition to hormones, so I definitely think a holistic approach works best because it treats your overall wellbeing. But yeah, it's so frustrating to get everything right! At least we're trying!

Interesting, so according to your doctor, the NPC should help balance estrogen but it will just take longer than some other estrogen balancing treatments? I think I will try the multi- you suggested. It didn't cause any type of IB with the liver detoxing elements? Where do you purchase it?

That sucks that you got an IB from the CDG, but it very much could be a result of your period. It can be so hard to tell what™s a trigger, since some things show up right away and others may take a few days or even weeks to surface.

As far as my experience on NPC this week, I got my period and I have fairly bad cramps, which is frustrating because my cramps were greatly reduced on my first period after starting NPC. It seems as though things got better very quickly and then the initial positive effect has reduced.

Yeah, that's what she said...but based on hearts' experience, she had to add DIM to get all the way clear so you may need something extra too. I'm afraid of DIM causing an IB, but I'm open to trying it if I do have high estrogen/estradiol.

Sometimes I try something and it works at first but then loses its effectiveness, which is frustrating. Inositol is still working for me, but I this month I got some breakouts around my period, so I'm not sure if I should blame CDG or me forgetting to take enough inositol some days. Although, when I researched CDG, noone mentioned an IB, but I think that anything that detoxes the liver can cause that. Niacin has very good reviews, but I'm hesistant to add anything else right now. I was also under a lot of stress, so it's hard to tell really. I know that when I'm hormonally imbalanced, stress makes things far worse.

I got herpanacine from the vitamin shoppe. Actually, a girl who works there recommended DIM and vitex initially, but I asked if there was anything non herbal I could take in the place of a multivitamin and she said that women of all ages use herpanacine. I did some research online and most reviews are positive. None that I read said that it made their acne worse....the "worst" reviews were ones where people said it didn't work. The salesgirl told me to try it for a month and if I'm not happy I can return it for a full refund, which is a fair deal. I got the vegetarian capsule one. I liked that it contained a good ratio of vitamins and minerals. For some reason, whenever I took vitamin E or zinc separately, they never did anything for me, but this combo seems to work well. The first 2 weeks I was taking it, my skin was radiant. I even went for a facial and the esthetician asked me what I was taking. But that didn't last long, haha. I removed CDG to see if the improvement picks up again.

You can order herpanacine directly from the website, and I believe they give free samples too, but you may want to request the vegetarian capsule in case you are sensitive to gelatin. As for the liver blend, I think the herbs they put in are more for supporting the liver than intense detox, and I haven't had an IB from it.

Maybe what you need is the right combination of vitamins and minerals. You can control hormones that way too.

That's true about hearts and DIM, but I was hoping the combination of NPC and Spiro might do the trick for me. Also, hearts had some body acne and mine is only on my face, so I thought that it might be possible that the NPC would be effective enough to clear up my face.

I know how you feel about wavering on adding something new to the skincare/health routine. This is especially true when we're out there doing tons of research- this worked for this person, that worked for that person, etc.. and you just want to know which combination is going to work for you.

That's interesting that the vitamin supplement made your skin glow and then the effect faded fairly quickly; sounds similar to what happened with me and NPC.

 

Interesting, so according to your doctor, the NPC should help balance estrogen but it will just take longer than some other estrogen balancing treatments? I think I will try the multi- you suggested. It didn't cause any type of IB with the liver detoxing elements? Where do you purchase it?

That sucks that you got an IB from the CDG, but it very much could be a result of your period. It can be so hard to tell what™s a trigger, since some things show up right away and others may take a few days or even weeks to surface.

As far as my experience on NPC this week, I got my period and I have fairly bad cramps, which is frustrating because my cramps were greatly reduced on my first period after starting NPC. It seems as though things got better very quickly and then the initial positive effect has reduced.

Yeah, that's what she said...but based on hearts' experience, she had to add DIM to get all the way clear so you may need something extra too. I'm afraid of DIM causing an IB, but I'm open to trying it if I do have high estrogen/estradiol.

Sometimes I try something and it works at first but then loses its effectiveness, which is frustrating. Inositol is still working for me, but I this month I got some breakouts around my period, so I'm not sure if I should blame CDG or me forgetting to take enough inositol some days. Although, when I researched CDG, noone mentioned an IB, but I think that anything that detoxes the liver can cause that. Niacin has very good reviews, but I'm hesistant to add anything else right now. I was also under a lot of stress, so it's hard to tell really. I know that when I'm hormonally imbalanced, stress makes things far worse.

I got herpanacine from the vitamin shoppe. Actually, a girl who works there recommended DIM and vitex initially, but I asked if there was anything non herbal I could take in the place of a multivitamin and she said that women of all ages use herpanacine. I did some research online and most reviews are positive. None that I read said that it made their acne worse....the "worst" reviews were ones where people said it didn't work. The salesgirl told me to try it for a month and if I'm not happy I can return it for a full refund, which is a fair deal. I got the vegetarian capsule one. I liked that it contained a good ratio of vitamins and minerals. For some reason, whenever I took vitamin E or zinc separately, they never did anything for me, but this combo seems to work well. The first 2 weeks I was taking it, my skin was radiant. I even went for a facial and the esthetician asked me what I was taking. But that didn't last long, haha. I removed CDG to see if the improvement picks up again.

You can order herpanacine directly from the website, and I believe they give free samples too, but you may want to request the vegetarian capsule in case you are sensitive to gelatin. As for the liver blend, I think the herbs they put in are more for supporting the liver than intense detox, and I haven't had an IB from it.

Maybe what you need is the right combination of vitamins and minerals. You can control hormones that way too.

Yeah, I feel that even doctors are experimenting on us because hormones are so hard to predict, especially in the long run. The other thing I have been doing recently is trying on different foundations because the one I have been using is a bit too dark, and the lighter shade is too light. And I thought I found a hypoallergenic one based on ingredients, but then I read reviews online and many people said it broke them out. So it could be that too, who knows. I guess I shouldn't change more than 1 thing in my routine so that I can know for sure what's working. But finding a new foundation is kind of urgent because I don't want to look orange at work. Do you have any recommendations for foundations? On my days off I use mineral powder, but I can never get mineral makeup to look good on me.

Oh yeah, that's herpacine, but the photo on amazon looks like the old version - I believe they changed the formula a bit and also added a vegetarian capsule. This is the one I got. It was on sale at the store, and cheaper than online. http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/diamond-herpanacine-associates-herpanacine-200-capsules/jd-7001#.Uo7clCjNDG4

Btw, one serving is 3 pills. I suggest starting with just 1 for a few days and working your way up. You can take up to 6 per day, but I never take that many. I usually take 3 or 4 now with meals. If you start with 1, the dose is pretty low and you probably won't see a difference until you start taking 3+ per day. But it's better to test it with 1 and then see how you like it.

I avoid ordering supplements via amazon unless it's a reliable vendor. One time I ordered a taurine supplement online and it gave me crazy side effects and I couldn't sleep for 2 days! I sent it back to the company, not the vendor, and they analyzed it and said it was a different formula than the one they use and asked me where I got it from. When I went back to the vendor's amazon page to write feedback, the vendor deleted his account. I had the same thing happen when I ordered a new charger for my laptop - I got a supposedly good one that messed up my battery because it wasn't charging properly.

Maybe you can try iherb, vitamin shoppe, or vitacost instead? Or you can ask for samples from the company to see if you like it first? http://www.diamondformulas.com/herpanacine.html

Argh! I was trying to reply on my phone and just accidentally deleted an entire message! This redo will be a bit abbreviated, I apologize.

I can't use mineral makeup, so I use Josie Maran Argan Matchmaker Serum Foundation in the lightest shade. I have used it for years (including when my skin was clear with no problems).

I also use ZuZu Luxe Concealer. It really covers red marks very well and lasts.

http://www.josiemarancosmetics.com/argan-matchmaker-serum-foundation.html

And

http://www.gabrielcosmeticsinc.com/index.cfm/product/47_21/zuzu-luxe-concealer.cfm

Speaking of products, may I ask what face wash you use?

I ended up ordering the vitamins through Vitacost and I'm wondering if you've seen an improvement, since you started using it, on your acne specifically or just overall 'glow'?

I have a huge breakout on my cheek. Getting pretty discouraged about NPC atm.

Yeah, I feel that even doctors are experimenting on us because hormones are so hard to predict, especially in the long run. The other thing I have been doing recently is trying on different foundations because the one I have been using is a bit too dark, and the lighter shade is too light. And I thought I found a hypoallergenic one based on ingredients, but then I read reviews online and many people said it broke them out. So it could be that too, who knows. I guess I shouldn't change more than 1 thing in my routine so that I can know for sure what's working. But finding a new foundation is kind of urgent because I don't want to look orange at work. Do you have any recommendations for foundations? On my days off I use mineral powder, but I can never get mineral makeup to look good on me.

Oh yeah, that's herpacine, but the photo on amazon looks like the old version - I believe they changed the formula a bit and also added a vegetarian capsule. This is the one I got. It was on sale at the store, and cheaper than online. http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/diamond-herpanacine-associates-herpanacine-200-capsules/jd-7001#.Uo7clCjNDG4

Btw, one serving is 3 pills. I suggest starting with just 1 for a few days and working your way up. You can take up to 6 per day, but I never take that many. I usually take 3 or 4 now with meals. If you start with 1, the dose is pretty low and you probably won't see a difference until you start taking 3+ per day. But it's better to test it with 1 and then see how you like it.

I avoid ordering supplements via amazon unless it's a reliable vendor. One time I ordered a taurine supplement online and it gave me crazy side effects and I couldn't sleep for 2 days! I sent it back to the company, not the vendor, and they analyzed it and said it was a different formula than the one they use and asked me where I got it from. When I went back to the vendor's amazon page to write feedback, the vendor deleted his account. I had the same thing happen when I ordered a new charger for my laptop - I got a supposedly good one that messed up my battery because it wasn't charging properly.

Maybe you can try iherb, vitamin shoppe, or vitacost instead? Or you can ask for samples from the company to see if you like it first? http://www.diamondformulas.com/herpanacine.html

No worries, I always mess up replies on my phone lol.

Sorry you got a breakout. Perhaps progesterone alone is not enough for you? Even with spiro....maybe your issue is estrogen dominance or an overloaded liver? I read through my posts while I was on NPC, and my experience was slow but positive apart from that damn numbness, which was probably coincidental. How many months have you been on it now?

I actually got a sample of the Josie Maran foundation the other day, along with a few others, but it was too sheer for me. It would be a great foundation if I had better skin texture. I also tried Nars foundation and within a few hours I got new pimples! Argh!

I'll look up the concealer you recommended. Right now I use maybeline and it's decent. I hate trying on new foundations though because it takes a few days to test them out and they usually are not right for me.

For face wash, I use the Image Cosmetics' Ormedic cleanser, and sometimes their The Max cleanser. Both are good, but Ormedic really balanced my PH so I use it more frequently. They have a travel size kit you can try via their website if you can't find it in Canada. They have pretty good customer service. They don't put harsh chemicals in their products.

When I added the herpanacine, I noticed an almost immediate improvement in texture. I didn't have much acne at the time, so I don't know about that. But now after adding the CDG I think I must have gotten an IB (or just a B) because my skin is worse. Trying out various foundations didn't help either. I got a huge cyst near my nose, and I never break out there. So basically now I'm done with foundation experiments, and have stopped the CDG until my lab results.

I also stopped taking inositol during my period (kind of what I was doing with NPC before, wanted to see if it helps with ino too) and I think that made me more hormonal. I was feeling depressed, moody, and teary the whole time! So maybe I should just not take a break from it during my period. As you can see, I made a lot of changes at the same time so it's hard to tell what went wrong. I should have waited on trying out foundations to make sure it was the CDG breaking me out.

I'm consistently taking herpanacine though and the breakouts seem to heal faster. I also take vitamin C separately because it doesn't have that. Start with just 1 pill and work your way up, but I don't recommend taking the maximum. I take 4 at most because I don't want to overdo it with vitamin A and E. Try it out and give it at least a month. It may help you cover any vitamin or zinc deficiencies you may have. Keep the receipt so you can return it if you don't like it.

Argh! I was trying to reply on my phone and just accidentally deleted an entire message! This redo will be a bit abbreviated, I apologize.

 

I can't use mineral makeup, so I use Josie Maran Argan Matchmaker Serum Foundation in the lightest shade. I have used it for years (including when my skin was clear with no problems).

 

I also use ZuZu Luxe Concealer. It really covers red marks very well and lasts.

 

http://www.josiemarancosmetics.com/argan-matchmaker-serum-foundation.html

 

And

 

http://www.gabrielcosmeticsinc.com/index.cfm/product/47_21/zuzu-luxe-concealer.cfm

 

Speaking of products, may I ask what face wash you use?

 

I ended up ordering the vitamins through Vitacost and I'm wondering if you've seen an improvement, since you started using it, on your acne specifically or just overall 'glow'?

 

I have a huge breakout on my cheek. Getting pretty discouraged about NPC atm.

 

 

Sorry for my delayed update, I started a new job and moved to a new city so it's been busy, and I also wanted to give the Natural Progesterone Cream some time to better evaluate my results. Short answer: it's working, but in concert with a variety of other treatments both topically and internally.

Quick backstory: I'm a 27 y/o white female (I think that age and ethnic background can affect skin types and how your body reacts so that may be helpful for people to know). I was on Yasmin from teenage years to about 22 and always had great skin. After I went off it, my skin started to get more and more acne prone each year. At about 24 I tried Dan's regimen and that worked for about 2 years but then it just stopped working and left me with dry flaky skin on top of the acne. I would break out around mouth and jawline mid-cycle, it would clear during/after my period, but by the time the marks had faded I'd be back to mid-cycle breakout. My cycles were always very regular. In May of this year I did all this internet research and tried a million things over the summer: DIM, Vitex, Saw Palmetto, Milk Thistle, vinegar (orally and topically), Clarisonic, antibiotics, topical antibiotic gel, oil-based cleansing, manuka honey, microgestin birth control pill. And the result was that my acne got so much worse. It was VERY VERY bad, cysts all over my jawline, red pimples all over my forehead and cheeks, cysts above the eyebrows... So bad that I truly felt my skin would never be clear again. Finally I went to a Naturopath and the hormone tests she had me do revealed that I had high Estrogen and Low progesterone. Testosterone and Cortisol were normal. I started my treatments based on her recommendations in mid-September and now (end of November) my skin is almost completely clear. I don't have any cysts and I only have 2 pimples, my red marks are fading. Here's what I've been doing

INSIDE

Herbs/Natural Progesterone Cream

- Vitex (Gaia brand, 2 caps twice daily)

- Estroblock (3 caps daily)

- Liv-Tox (Rx Balance brand 1 cap daily)

- Chelated Zinc (whole foods brand, 50mg daily)

- Chromium (my co-ops brand, 400mg daily)

- Women's multi-vitamin (New Chapters brand)

- Natural Progesterone Cream (compounded by a pharmacy in SF, 0.5mL applied daily days 14 - 28 of cycle)

Food

I'm very hesitant about food restrictions since I'm already a pretty picky eater and too many food restrictions make socializing difficult. For years I have been a pescetarian and eat mostly organic, whole foods. The Naturopath told me to cut out dairy. I've tried to do this to some extent but not completely. I've limited dairy except I eat greek yogurt and chocolate. I drink coffee and this is something I'm not willing to give up.

OUTSIDE

Mario Badescu's Acne prone skin line is AMAZING!!!! This has been a significant factor in my acne clearing because the results really started to accelerate when I started using these products about one month ago. Check them out!

I use Bare Minerals make-up

Additionally, I did two salicylic acid + microdermabrasion (with diamond wand) facials about a week apart and this really helped to smooth my skin, get rid of dead skin cells that would cause acne, and speed up the red mark healing process. I did not have ANY downtime or even flaking from these treatments. I know sometimes acid peels or microderm can cause redness or flaking, the aesthetician I worked with had a lot of experience with acne-prone skin and was committed to gentle treatments.

Regarding hormone testing, you can order a test kit online here and they ship internationally https://www.hormonesolutionscenter.com/product/saliva-hormone-test-kit/

I hope that helps!! I'll try to update again in a few weeks. I'm getting another hormone test done soon and consulting with my naturopath about next steps. WishClean mentioned hormone treatments, even herbal ones not working long term. I agree and am hoping that I don't have to take these things forever and will be working with the naturopath to figure that out.

Hey WishClean,

I do agree that the foundation alone does not provide much coverage, that's why I use the powder as well from that line and the ZuZu Concealer. Overall, I feel it provides the best coverage and colour match without aggravating my skin.

I do not plan to overdo the vitamins at all, especially considering they're pricey, but I figured (being a vegetarian) they may help ensure I get some key skin-focused vitamins I may be missing from my diet.

I'm very interested in what I've been hearing about Vitex CatF and WishClean. Is there potential for an IB? You both sound to have had success with it (previously for WishClean). WishClean, why did you stop? CatF, what dose have you heard works best (mgs or whatever, as pills will vary by brand).

CatF, did DIM not work for you when you tried it? I heard that DIM works better than Estroblock for some, but I guess it depends on the individual. Which of the supplements you are taking do you think has helped you the most? Did you have an initial breakout, and how long did it take to see improvements?

My periods are very regular to, and my progesterone is low but they never tested my estrogen until recently and I'm waiting for the results.

Hey guys, so I initially started taking vitex in the "tincture" form - liquid drops in water - it tastes awful and I didn't experience an initial breakout, but I didn't experience any results. For me, it didn't work until I took it WITH the Estroblock and the NPC. I started taking Estroblock and using NPC and decided based on the naturopath's rec to give Vitex another try. I think it works because once I added the Vitex, the acne began to clear faster. When I started this in mid-September I didn't experience an initial breakout. I also took Liv-tox though, I think this may be important to preventing an initial breakout because from what I have read, if your liver isn't adequately metabolizing the excess estrogen the Estroblock expels, you can end up with build-up that makes things worse. I'm guessing the liver supports Vitex also.

I agree that it's best to take Vitex in liquid form. You want to try to get the actual, natural chaste tree berry extract (vitex agnus castus) without it having been processed and shot up with additives as much as possible. I just could not stand the awful tasting, messy, little drops in water every day though, so I use Gaia brand Vitex capsules which provide the alcohol-free liquid inside of a vegetable cellulose capsule. I haven't really done much research on the dosages so I'm not sure about that but in my case, I'm taking 2 capsules each morning (I realize now that I wrote that incorrectly in my post before, I'm only taking two in the morning, not at night and in the morning) this is a dose of 2,000mg of chaste-tree berry extract each day.

As far as my experience with DIM goes, when I started it in May (Nature's way brand), I got an initial breakout (itchy red under-the-skin type pimples all over my forehead), but this is also when I started taking milk thistle which totally messed up my digestion and when I started using the oil-cleansing method, so I think it's hard to say if it was the DIM. I took it for two months, although the initial breakout cleared, I didn't really experience any results in terms of my monthly breakouts, so I stopped. As a side note: oil of oregano helped get my digestion back on track after the milk thistle experiment and I think that was instrumental in clearin gmy forehead. Estroblock is a version of DIM, or rather, the chemical compound that produces DIM. You can read about it at this great blog on natural acne remedies, The Love Vitamin: http://www.thelovevitamin.com/11423/estroblock-acne-q-and-a/

However, I think DIM may work for me if it's taken with other things. I actually ran out of the Estroblock a week ago and my new purchase of it hasn't arrived yet (it's only available for purchase online), so I've been taking the Nature's Way DIM in it's place and my skin has continued to improve so I think maybe in my case DIM works but it needs Vitex, Liv-tox, and NPC to support it. I also think the Chromium has helped since that was something else I wasn't taking when I was taking Vitex and DIM separately over the summer.

As far as what works best. I feel like that is difficult to tell. I think none of these things really work that well for me on their own, since I tried DIM on it's own with no luck and Vitex on its own with no luck and a million topicals with no luck. So I would say that for me some form of DIM (either Estroblock or the Nature's Way brand) + Vitex + Chromium + Liv-tox works. Which kind of stinks because I feel like a geriatric patient taking all these pills every day, but I'm hoping that these are temporary fixes and that my hormones can eventually get back in balance and then stay in balance on their own.

It took about 2 months before I really started seeing improvements. The salicylic acid + microdermabrasion facials really helped accelerate the improvements. My skin went from gradually clearing to completely clear besides 2 pimples in just 2 weeks after those facials.

CatF, did DIM not work for you when you tried it? I heard that DIM works better than Estroblock for some, but I guess it depends on the individual. Which of the supplements you are taking do you think has helped you the most? Did you have an initial breakout, and how long did it take to see improvements?

My periods are very regular to, and my progesterone is low but they never tested my estrogen until recently and I'm waiting for the results.

Brenmc, I stopped vitex because the naturopath advised me not to take it long term. The second time I decided to start it, I went back to the naturopath (he's actually also a homeopathic pharmacist and makes his own blends, so I got the best quality vitex from Europe with no additives). He asked me how long I had until I graduate, which at the time was 1.5 years. He said since I am under a lot of stress, I should take it for 1.5 years until I'm done with school and then slowly decrease it. But the second time, around 8 months into it, I started getting allergic reactions and hives. I wasn't sure it was the vitex or the allergy drops I was taking. I stopped everything, but I was still getting allergic reactions and I still don't know what exactly caused it. I read that some women get hives on vitex when they start it and they have to stop taking it, but I never read about anyone developing an allergy to vitex after taking it for so long. I'm thinking maybe my liver wasn't processing the supplements properly and I needed to take a break.... the naturopath also recommended milk thistle, but I had a reaction to it and I stopped.

Other vitex side effects I experienced: hair loss on head and hair growth elsewhere (annoying!). Side effects are usually rare, but chances increase the longer you take it, just like with bcp but at least vitex can't cause blood clots or cancer.

I will say that it's best to take vitex in liquid form without alcohol if possible, although alcohol is a preservative and if you get the alcohol-free version make sure you check the expiration date and don't leave it sitting on the shelf. I think, based on my past experiences, that for me it works but it's a bit risky now that I have developed sensitivities to so many things. Maybe I'll try DIM next if my estrogen is high because it offers antioxidant support as well. But now that CatF mentioned Estroblock, I wonder if that's better to use? Or Myomin....hmmm.

>

Hey WishClean,

I do agree that the foundation alone does not provide much coverage, that's why I use the powder as well from that line and the ZuZu Concealer. Overall, I feel it provides the best coverage and colour match without aggravating my skin.

I do not plan to overdo the vitamins at all, especially considering they're pricey, but I figured (being a vegetarian) they may help ensure I get some key skin-focused vitamins I may be missing from my diet.

I'm very interested in what I've been hearing about Vitex CatF and WishClean. Is there potential for an IB? You both sound to have had success with it (previously for WishClean). WishClean, why did you stop? CatF, what dose have you heard works best (mgs or whatever, as pills will vary by brand).

Hey guys, so I initially started taking vitex in the "tincture" form - liquid drops in water - it tastes awful and I didn't experience an initial breakout, but I didn't experience any results. For me, it didn't work until I took it WITH the Estroblock and the NPC. I started taking Estroblock and using NPC and decided based on the naturopath's rec to give Vitex another try. I think it works because once I added the Vitex, the acne began to clear faster. When I started this in mid-September I didn't experience an initial breakout. I also took Liv-tox though, I think this may be important to preventing an initial breakout because from what I have read, if your liver isn't adequately metabolizing the excess estrogen the Estroblock expels, you can end up with build-up that makes things worse. I'm guessing the liver supports Vitex also.

I agree that it's best to take Vitex in liquid form. You want to try to get the actual, natural chaste tree berry extract (vitex agnus castus) without it having been processed and shot up with additives as much as possible. I just could not stand the awful tasting, messy, little drops in water every day though, so I use Gaia brand Vitex capsules which provide the alcohol-free liquid inside of a vegetable cellulose capsule. I haven't really done much research on the dosages so I'm not sure about that but in my case, I'm taking 2 capsules each morning (I realize now that I wrote that incorrectly in my post before, I'm only taking two in the morning, not at night and in the morning) this is a dose of 2,000mg of chaste-tree berry extract each day.

As far as my experience with DIM goes, when I started it in May (Nature's way brand), I got an initial breakout (itchy red under-the-skin type pimples all over my forehead), but this is also when I started taking milk thistle which totally messed up my digestion and when I started using the oil-cleansing method, so I think it's hard to say if it was the DIM. I took it for two months, although the initial breakout cleared, I didn't really experience any results in terms of my monthly breakouts, so I stopped. As a side note: oil of oregano helped get my digestion back on track after the milk thistle experiment and I think that was instrumental in clearin gmy forehead. Estroblock is a version of DIM, or rather, the chemical compound that produces DIM. You can read about it at this great blog on natural acne remedies, The Love Vitamin: http://www.thelovevitamin.com/11423/estroblock-acne-q-and-a/

However, I think DIM may work for me if it's taken with other things. I actually ran out of the Estroblock a week ago and my new purchase of it hasn't arrived yet (it's only available for purchase online), so I've been taking the Nature's Way DIM in it's place and my skin has continued to improve so I think maybe in my case DIM works but it needs Vitex, Liv-tox, and NPC to support it. I also think the Chromium has helped since that was something else I wasn't taking when I was taking Vitex and DIM separately over the summer.

As far as what works best. I feel like that is difficult to tell. I think none of these things really work that well for me on their own, since I tried DIM on it's own with no luck and Vitex on its own with no luck and a million topicals with no luck. So I would say that for me some form of DIM (either Estroblock or the Nature's Way brand) + Vitex + Chromium + Liv-tox works. Which kind of stinks because I feel like a geriatric patient taking all these pills every day, but I'm hoping that these are temporary fixes and that my hormones can eventually get back in balance and then stay in balance on their own.

It took about 2 months before I really started seeing improvements. The salicylic acid + microdermabrasion facials really helped accelerate the improvements. My skin went from gradually clearing to completely clear besides 2 pimples in just 2 weeks after those facials.

Thanks for the reply, this is helpful. When I was taking vitex, I just diluted it in juice and I couldn't taste the nastiness. Do you take all of your supplements at the same time, or do you think taking them during different times works better/makes no difference?

Did your naturopath mention calcium d-glucarate? Some women take it with DIM to help the liver get rid of excess hormones and avoid an IB.

Have you been diagnosed with PCOS? What I came to realize is, if your hormones are naturally unbalanced, you will unfortunately need to do maintenance work once you are off any treatment, whether it's meds, herbs, or supplements. You may be able to take a break for 1-2 years, but the acne returning is usually a sign that something is off balance. Hopefully your issues are less permanent though!

CatF, sounds like you really have found the right balance for you. As for the reaction of itchy rash like pimples, I think it could be related to the oil cleansing method. I get the exact same (sounding) breakouts whenever I use products that contain jojoba or essential oils.

WishClean, I've been doing more research lately into PCOS and I have seen calcium d-glucarate recommended. Interestingly, probiotics are also recommended. Here are the herbs/vitamins I have come across as important for breaking down estrogen: b complex, magnesium, indole 3 carbinol, calcium d glucarate, milk thistle, turmeric, artichoke. Sounds like the main issue with breaking down estrogen is improper elimination (ie, initial breakout) so it's a good idea to take digestive support while doing this.

CatF, sounds like you really have found the right balance for you. As for the reaction of itchy rash like pimples, I think it could be related to the oil cleansing method. I get the exact same (sounding) breakouts whenever I use products that contain jojoba or essential oils.

WishClean, I've been doing more research lately into PCOS and I have seen calcium d-glucarate recommended. Interestingly, probiotics are also recommended. Here are the herbs/vitamins I have come across as important for breaking down estrogen: b complex, magnesium, indole 3 carbinol, calcium d glucarate, milk thistle, turmeric, artichoke. Sounds like the main issue with breaking down estrogen is improper elimination (ie, initial breakout) so it's a good idea to take digestive support while doing this.

Yeah, I get those pimples when I use jojoba too.....my skin just doesn't agree with thick oils. I have more luck with honey facials, and sometimes yogurt masks.

Brenmc, you are right. Proper elimination pathways needs to be functioning. The first time I was recommended vitex, the naturopath told me to also take probiotics to help with gut flora. The second time I took vitex I didn't take probiotics, maybe that's why it didn't work as long the second time. If there's improper elimination, the initial breakout just becomes a continuous breakout. I think since you have been taking spiro for so long, you need to tend to your liver. Any type of drug and even prolonged use of supplements makes the liver work harder. Has the doctor who prescribed you spiro given you any insight into why you are now breaking out after years on spiro?

But I'm fairly sure that calcium d-glucarate broke me out. Either that or the nars foundation I tried on, but I think cdg may have caused a detox reaction even at the low dose I was taking. Milk thistle did this to me too.

I take digestive enzymes right now.

Thinking of ordering chiral balance, have you heard of it? It's supposed to be a more potent form of inositol. Maybe I can combine that with NPC depending on my lab results.

Hey!

Do you have a recipe for honey facials?

Also, for me, when I breakout from makeup, it tends to be in different places than my œnormal acne. That might be a clue as to whether it was the makeup or CDG. Here is a link to another company that has a great line of makeup, you could write them and ask for free samples, they are pretty good about that: http://www.pureandsimple.ca/index.php?route=product/category&path=274_296_500 .

I™m increasingly interested in Vitex. But I think my acne needs to be controlled by balancing both my androgens and estrogen. Could it exacerbate the androgen problem?

I haven™t heard of that product, so I can™t comment. However, here is a link to a VERY pricey but progressive œkit for eliminating estrogen: http://www.clearmedicine.com/online-store . I haven™t purchased or used it, but I am considering it.

 

CatF, sounds like you really have found the right balance for you. As for the reaction of itchy rash like pimples, I think it could be related to the oil cleansing method. I get the exact same (sounding) breakouts whenever I use products that contain jojoba or essential oils.

WishClean, I've been doing more research lately into PCOS and I have seen calcium d-glucarate recommended. Interestingly, probiotics are also recommended. Here are the herbs/vitamins I have come across as important for breaking down estrogen: b complex, magnesium, indole 3 carbinol, calcium d glucarate, milk thistle, turmeric, artichoke. Sounds like the main issue with breaking down estrogen is improper elimination (ie, initial breakout) so it's a good idea to take digestive support while doing this.

Yeah, I get those pimples when I use jojoba too.....my skin just doesn't agree with thick oils. I have more luck with honey facials, and sometimes yogurt masks.

Brenmc, you are right. Proper elimination pathways needs to be functioning. The first time I was recommended vitex, the naturopath told me to also take probiotics to help with gut flora. The second time I took vitex I didn't take probiotics, maybe that's why it didn't work as long the second time. If there's improper elimination, the initial breakout just becomes a continuous breakout. I think since you have been taking spiro for so long, you need to tend to your liver. Any type of drug and even prolonged use of supplements makes the liver work harder. Has the doctor who prescribed you spiro given you any insight into why you are now breaking out after years on spiro?

But I'm fairly sure that calcium d-glucarate broke me out. Either that or the nars foundation I tried on, but I think cdg may have caused a detox reaction even at the low dose I was taking. Milk thistle did this to me too.

I take digestive enzymes right now.

Thinking of ordering chiral balance, have you heard of it? It's supposed to be a more potent form of inositol. Maybe I can combine that with NPC depending on my lab results.

Hey!

Do you have a recipe for honey facials?

Also, for me, when I breakout from makeup, it tends to be in different places than my œnormal acne. That might be a clue as to whether it was the makeup or CDG. Here is a link to another company that has a great line of makeup, you could write them and ask for free samples, they are pretty good about that: http://www.pureandsimple.ca/index.php?route=product/category&path=274_296_500 .

I™m increasingly interested in Vitex. But I think my acne needs to be controlled by balancing both my androgens and estrogen. Could it exacerbate the androgen problem?

I haven™t heard of that product, so I can™t comment. However, here is a link to a VERY pricey but progressive œkit for eliminating estrogen: http://www.clearmedicine.com/online-store . I haven™t purchased or used it, but I am considering it.

yeah, you are right about cosmetic breakouts. I actually got a medium-sized zit on my forehead too, which never breaks out, so that might be the foundation. I didn't read foundation reviews before going to the store because for any foundation, there's always someone who says it broke them out horribly! But for nars, it was more than one person, more like 30. Thanks for the makeup link, I'll ask for samples! Have you used their products?

for honey facials, I basically just smear honey on areas with redness and acne...I tried using raw, manuka, and organic honey and they were all fine, but what works the best is the honey that comes with the 0% Fage yogurt...I'm not sure why! Maybe it's authentic Greek honey? it's not organic or anything, but the texture is smooth and it makes my skin less irritable. My mom was always using yogurt mixed with honey and a bit of lemon on my face when I was growing up and I got into the habit of doing that but sometimes I just use plain honey because if you do yogurt masks frequently it can dry out your skin. I use honey as a lip balm too! make sure you do a spot test for a few days to make sure you are not sensitive to it. I would start with applying it topically to see how your skin reacts.

Ah, the link to the kit has the right approach, but it's too expensive and I guarantee you that not all of the ingredients will work on everyone. It's a bit risky to incorporate so many new herbs and supplements at once, especially the detox ones because if you breakout you won't know if your body is purging or if you are just having a reaction. When the naturopath recommended milk thistle, I had a reaction to it - my entire jawline broke out, I had chills, fever, and sweating. I took 2 capsules when that happened, and I had previously taken 1 for 2 days before. The bottle said up to 4 I think. So I'm still not sure if I was having a very rapid detox reaction or just an allergic reaction, and I was too nervous to stick with it and find out. The naturopath insisted that it was a detox reaction, but I also had other symptoms so I gave up. L-glutathione is far more gentle so I usually just take that for a few weeks, but it's far less intense for treating acne.

I have a love/ hate relationship with vitex. It's one of those things that definitely works for my acne by balancing my estrogen: progesterone ratio, but because I'm also prone to hursutism, it exacerbates it because it doesn't regulate androgens. I did read some sources that claim it also lowers androgens by reducing excess estrogens, therefore inhibiting the conversion of estradiol to testosterone, but in my case it didn't do that I guess. it's so hard to predict how your body will react unless you cautiously try it.

Btw, have you told your doctor that you are breaking out on spiro? Maybe he can at least get some bloodwork done for you during times of the month where your skin is the worst to get some indication of what's throwing your hormones off.

I have and do use Pure and Simple's products. I did tell my doctor I'm breaking out on spiro but he hasn't suggested anything. I'm feeling really defeated about the whole NPC. GreenGables said in another post that it can cause acne. Maybe I shouldn't be using it? Would Vitex work better, same or worse (ie, does it just increase progesterone)?

 

Hey!

Do you have a recipe for honey facials?

Also, for me, when I breakout from makeup, it tends to be in different places than my œnormal acne. That might be a clue as to whether it was the makeup or CDG. Here is a link to another company that has a great line of makeup, you could write them and ask for free samples, they are pretty good about that: http://www.pureandsimple.ca/index.php?route=product/category&path=274_296_500 .

I™m increasingly interested in Vitex. But I think my acne needs to be controlled by balancing both my androgens and estrogen. Could it exacerbate the androgen problem?

I haven™t heard of that product, so I can™t comment. However, here is a link to a VERY pricey but progressive œkit for eliminating estrogen: http://www.clearmedicine.com/online-store . I haven™t purchased or used it, but I am considering it.

yeah, you are right about cosmetic breakouts. I actually got a medium-sized zit on my forehead too, which never breaks out, so that might be the foundation. I didn't read foundation reviews before going to the store because for any foundation, there's always someone who says it broke them out horribly! But for nars, it was more than one person, more like 30. Thanks for the makeup link, I'll ask for samples! Have you used their products?

for honey facials, I basically just smear honey on areas with redness and acne...I tried using raw, manuka, and organic honey and they were all fine, but what works the best is the honey that comes with the 0% Fage yogurt...I'm not sure why! Maybe it's authentic Greek honey? it's not organic or anything, but the texture is smooth and it makes my skin less irritable. My mom was always using yogurt mixed with honey and a bit of lemon on my face when I was growing up and I got into the habit of doing that but sometimes I just use plain honey because if you do yogurt masks frequently it can dry out your skin. I use honey as a lip balm too! make sure you do a spot test for a few days to make sure you are not sensitive to it. I would start with applying it topically to see how your skin reacts.

Ah, the link to the kit has the right approach, but it's too expensive and I guarantee you that not all of the ingredients will work on everyone. It's a bit risky to incorporate so many new herbs and supplements at once, especially the detox ones because if you breakout you won't know if your body is purging or if you are just having a reaction. When the naturopath recommended milk thistle, I had a reaction to it - my entire jawline broke out, I had chills, fever, and sweating. I took 2 capsules when that happened, and I had previously taken 1 for 2 days before. The bottle said up to 4 I think. So I'm still not sure if I was having a very rapid detox reaction or just an allergic reaction, and I was too nervous to stick with it and find out. The naturopath insisted that it was a detox reaction, but I also had other symptoms so I gave up. L-glutathione is far more gentle so I usually just take that for a few weeks, but it's far less intense for treating acne.

I have a love/ hate relationship with vitex. It's one of those things that definitely works for my acne by balancing my estrogen: progesterone ratio, but because I'm also prone to hursutism, it exacerbates it because it doesn't regulate androgens. I did read some sources that claim it also lowers androgens by reducing excess estrogens, therefore inhibiting the conversion of estradiol to testosterone, but in my case it didn't do that I guess. it's so hard to predict how your body will react unless you cautiously try it.

Btw, have you told your doctor that you are breaking out on spiro? Maybe he can at least get some bloodwork done for you during times of the month where your skin is the worst to get some indication of what's throwing your hormones off.

I have and do use Pure and Simple's products. I did tell my doctor I'm breaking out on spiro but he hasn't suggested anything. I'm feeling really defeated about the whole NPC. GreenGables said in another post that it can cause acne. Maybe I shouldn't be using it? Would Vitex work better, same or worse (ie, does it just increase progesterone)?

Cool, I'll ask for samples! I really hope I can settle on a good foundation cos I'm sick of wondering if that is breaking me out too. I usually notice my skin getting worse when I switch foundations.

Well, NPC can hurt or help, it really depends. Just like anything else hormonal. For instance, some women clear on estrogenic bcp or estrogen cream, while others gain weight and feel worse. It's a gamble...even something that should theoretically work might not in practice, that's why I'm reluctant to try DIM. Herbs I am particularly cautious of because there's a higher chance of allergic reactions, at least for me.

Are you still taking spiro? What if you just don't need spiro anymore? Do you think that might be the case? I don't know if women can reach a state where their androgens are too low and they don't need spiro anymore, is that possible? Either that or your estrogen: progesterone: androgen ratios (and the other hormones associated with each) could be off. Hard to tell. Would you be able to get some lab work done to verify?

I read back on my posts while I was using NPC and overall I saw improvements in my mood and my breakouts were healing faster. I'd be open to it if my progesterone is low because it really helps regulate all other hormones.

Vitex can also hurt or help. It gets mixed reviews, like DIM. For me, it worked both times on the acne but the 2nd time I remember still flaring up sometimes and also becoming more sensitive to things like harsh water, sugars, gluten etc. The second time I also had to watch my diet more than the 1st time. So I think it's holistic: you have to take care of other aspects of your health as well, but it sounds like you are already very healthy. Maybe, though, your liver needs a break. You have been taking glucosmart and spiro for a long time, I don't know if a break might be useful maybe? I think greengables takes milk thistle to help with the liver, but I'm not sure.

With the exception of the first few weeks on NPC, my skin has not improved and it has been months. I'm going to lower my dose. I'm still taking spiro because I have issues like stray facial hairs (not lots but still). Also, I fear my acne would be worse without it. I'm thinking the glucosmart stopped working. And my estrogen (weight gain, long periods) has increased. I do not have the opportunity to get hormonal testing at this time.

 

I have and do use Pure and Simple's products. I did tell my doctor I'm breaking out on spiro but he hasn't suggested anything. I'm feeling really defeated about the whole NPC. GreenGables said in another post that it can cause acne. Maybe I shouldn't be using it? Would Vitex work better, same or worse (ie, does it just increase progesterone)?