I got another nodule yesterday, feeling pretty discouraged. I know it takes time for hormonal treatments to work, but I just wish I knew this was going to work, so I could feel confident in sticking with it.

Hearts, were you still getting new breakouts into your treatment with NPC or was it just a gradual subsiding of your old breakouts? Should I increase/decrease my dose perhaps

Sorry to hear that. I don't think you need to increase your dosage. I did a lot of research on NPC when I was using it, and it doesn't deliver results right away so patience is key. Unfortunately, I know it's hard to tell if it's even right for you at this point, but it does take a while for it to fully kick in so I would say give it at least 3 months. Your breakouts won't completely disappear at first, they will start to subside. Also, hearts said that NPC didn't completely stop her from breaking out, that's why she added DIM. So you may need to add something else 3 months or so into it.

I think that you could try adding myo-inositol powder until NPC fully kicks in. I saw faster improvement on it than I did back when I was taking bcp. It boosts your progesterone, so maybe you can try it in conjunction with NPC until the cream begins to fully work. Just a suggestion.

Sorry about my absence here lately... things have been crazy! I was laid off from my job recently so I'm taking it as a chance to move back to Colorado. (:

I agree with WishClean unfortunately it just sometimes takes a lot of time and patience. It really hasn't been long enough yet. I know it's important to keep a log of your progress, but honestly I tried to not even think about it until I had given it enough time. It seems that at least for me, acne was worse when I focused on it. I expected it to take 6 months, since that's how long it took for spiro to work for me. It was fortunate that it was sooner but it won't be the same for every person. I did also add DIM to get completely clear like WishClean mentioned.

About the Natpro site... Wray is different and does recommend 100-200mg for non menopausal women (read more here.) Some women on her forums say that they didn't experience relief of symptoms until over 200mg, like even 400mg or more. I just didn't have the funds to try that much out it's not exactly cheap stuff. However, Natpro is about double the strength of Emerita, so it is a better deal when it's in stock. I decided to up the dose until I felt the most relief, which was around 40-100mg a day. I'm a small girl (5'4" 110lbs) and still pretty young so maybe that has something to do with it too, not sure.

@ brenmc:Yeah, maybe try the myo next time to see if there's a difference. If low progesterone is your main issue, it can enhance the effects of the NPC.

@ hearts: sorry you lost your job...sometimes that can be a blessing in disguise though. I quit 1/2 my job starting in 2014 (basically I reduced my teaching load by choice bc I wasn't being paid nearly enough) and am now stressing out about what else to do. But oh well, that's life....my skin has been getting worse though from all the stress. Also, since I added HCl & pepsin a few days ago, I got a few painful red pimples. Is that a purging reaction or a bad sign?

I'm also wondering something..maybe you ladies know. I'm thinking of only taking inositol during times when progesterone and estrogen don't peak...so, not during ovulation or during my period, since during those times progesterone is higher anyway. I read that that's how other supplements should be taken too (like vitex) and NPC for those who break out during ovulation.

But I have no idea if my recent breakout is due to ovulation or to adding the hcl and pepsin.

@ brenmc:Yeah, maybe try the myo next time to see if there's a difference. If low progesterone is your main issue, it can enhance the effects of the NPC.

@ hearts: sorry you lost your job...sometimes that can be a blessing in disguise though. I quit 1/2 my job starting in 2014 (basically I reduced my teaching load by choice bc I wasn't being paid nearly enough) and am now stressing out about what else to do. But oh well, that's life....my skin has been getting worse though from all the stress. Also, since I added HCl & pepsin a few days ago, I got a few painful red pimples. Is that a purging reaction or a bad sign?

I'm also wondering something..maybe you ladies know. I'm thinking of only taking inositol during times when progesterone and estrogen don't peak...so, not during ovulation or during my period, since during those times progesterone is higher anyway. I read that that's how other supplements should be taken too (like vitex) and NPC for those who break out during ovulation.

But I have no idea if my recent breakout is due to ovulation or to adding the hcl and pepsin.

It really can be a good thing sometimes... I've been away from my boyfriend of 5 years for over a year; my job being the only thing keeping me in a different state. I'll finally get to move back in with him again! Sorry to hear about your stress though, but maybe you'll find a way better (and better paying) teaching job because of it! (:

How is the HCL besides the breakout? Did you feel any relief from food allergies, etc? I'm not sure about the cause of the breakout, but it could just be an upset from adding something new, especially since it seems that you're quite sensitive to food and supplements. If you're experiencing any other benefits from it, maybe take it a little longer to see if you continue to break out. After all, if you could improve your allergies/digestion issues, it could be better in the long run.

About taking inositol only during certain times... You could try it, and see how it goes. If it doesn't help, adjust again. I did break out during ovulation, and I tried using NPC at only certain times like you described, since thats what a lot of instructions say to do but it actually seemed to bring back imbalance symptoms (anxiety, some acne, insomnia, spotting, etc.) For me, consistency every day was key. Everyone is different though, so it could work for you.

It really can be a good thing sometimes... I've been away from my boyfriend of 5 years for over a year; my job being the only thing keeping me in a different state. I'll finally get to move back in with him again! Sorry to hear about your stress though, but maybe you'll find a way better (and better paying) teaching job because of it! (:

How is the HCL besides the breakout? Did you feel any relief from food allergies, etc? I'm not sure about the cause of the breakout, but it could just be an upset from adding something new, especially since it seems that you're quite sensitive to food and supplements. If you're experiencing any other benefits from it, maybe take it a little longer to see if you continue to break out. After all, if you could improve your allergies/digestion issues, it could be better in the long run.

About taking inositol only during certain times... You could try it, and see how it goes. If it doesn't help, adjust again. I did break out during ovulation, and I tried using NPC at only certain times like you described, since thats what a lot of instructions say to do but it actually seemed to bring back imbalance symptoms (anxiety, some acne, insomnia, spotting, etc.) For me, consistency every day was key. Everyone is different though, so it could work for you.

Yeah, I think that every change can be good, I'm just trying to get back on my feet after some financial difficulties. And the fact that I'm spending so much on my skin isn't helping lol.

Well, HCl helped a LOT with bloating....my stomach is flat after each meal, which usually doesn't happen. Today I skipped the HCL just to see what would happen, and I replaced it with digestive enzymes but I got bloated again. Digestive enzymes can only help that much, I think, but they don't fix the problem that's why I wanted to add HCl. Maybe I had a detox reaction or something, I'm not sure. Because overall I felt better and more energetic. I started with 1 pill, but then I upped it to 3 a day, maybe that was the problem. Sigh...I hate the guessing game!

It really can be a good thing sometimes... I've been away from my boyfriend of 5 years for over a year; my job being the only thing keeping me in a different state. I'll finally get to move back in with him again! Sorry to hear about your stress though, but maybe you'll find a way better (and better paying) teaching job because of it! (:

How is the HCL besides the breakout? Did you feel any relief from food allergies, etc? I'm not sure about the cause of the breakout, but it could just be an upset from adding something new, especially since it seems that you're quite sensitive to food and supplements. If you're experiencing any other benefits from it, maybe take it a little longer to see if you continue to break out. After all, if you could improve your allergies/digestion issues, it could be better in the long run.

About taking inositol only during certain times... You could try it, and see how it goes. If it doesn't help, adjust again. I did break out during ovulation, and I tried using NPC at only certain times like you described, since thats what a lot of instructions say to do but it actually seemed to bring back imbalance symptoms (anxiety, some acne, insomnia, spotting, etc.) For me, consistency every day was key. Everyone is different though, so it could work for you.

Yeah, I think that every change can be good, I'm just trying to get back on my feet after some financial difficulties. And the fact that I'm spending so much on my skin isn't helping lol.

Well, HCl helped a LOT with bloating....my stomach is flat after each meal, which usually doesn't happen. Today I skipped the HCL just to see what would happen, and I replaced it with digestive enzymes but I got bloated again. Digestive enzymes can only help that much, I think, but they don't fix the problem that's why I wanted to add HCl. Maybe I had a detox reaction or something, I'm not sure. Because overall I felt better and more energetic. I started with 1 pill, but then I upped it to 3 a day, maybe that was the problem. Sigh...I hate the guessing game!

Awesome! That is definitely a good reaction. The same thing happened to me! I would just assume the breakout was a reaction or detox and keep going with it for a while. If you experienced no burning/warmth after 3 pills a day, IMO that is a very good sign. (: I'm so happy for you!

It really can be a good thing sometimes... I've been away from my boyfriend of 5 years for over a year; my job being the only thing keeping me in a different state. I'll finally get to move back in with him again! Sorry to hear about your stress though, but maybe you'll find a way better (and better paying) teaching job because of it! (:

How is the HCL besides the breakout? Did you feel any relief from food allergies, etc? I'm not sure about the cause of the breakout, but it could just be an upset from adding something new, especially since it seems that you're quite sensitive to food and supplements. If you're experiencing any other benefits from it, maybe take it a little longer to see if you continue to break out. After all, if you could improve your allergies/digestion issues, it could be better in the long run.

About taking inositol only during certain times... You could try it, and see how it goes. If it doesn't help, adjust again. I did break out during ovulation, and I tried using NPC at only certain times like you described, since thats what a lot of instructions say to do but it actually seemed to bring back imbalance symptoms (anxiety, some acne, insomnia, spotting, etc.) For me, consistency every day was key. Everyone is different though, so it could work for you.

Yeah, I think that every change can be good, I'm just trying to get back on my feet after some financial difficulties. And the fact that I'm spending so much on my skin isn't helping lol.

Well, HCl helped a LOT with bloating....my stomach is flat after each meal, which usually doesn't happen. Today I skipped the HCL just to see what would happen, and I replaced it with digestive enzymes but I got bloated again. Digestive enzymes can only help that much, I think, but they don't fix the problem that's why I wanted to add HCl. Maybe I had a detox reaction or something, I'm not sure. Because overall I felt better and more energetic. I started with 1 pill, but then I upped it to 3 a day, maybe that was the problem. Sigh...I hate the guessing game!

Awesome! That is definitely a good reaction. The same thing happened to me! I would just assume the breakout was a reaction or detox and keep going with it for a while. If you experienced no burning/warmth after 3 pills a day, IMO that is a very good sign. (: I'm so happy for you!

Did you have a breakout on HCl when you first started taking it?

Yeah, I will keep using it since it seems to be helping, and hopefully the breakouts will subside. I don't know why I'm always so sensitive to adding new things. Do you think I should stick with 1 pill per meal, or should I up the dose?

No, it didn't affect my skin at all either way since it doesn't play with hormones. Some articles say to increase the number of pills on each full meal (I wouldn't recommend taking it on snacks or empty stomach) or every day and then once you feel warmth or burning in your stomach, decrease the pill by one and that is your correct dose. Also, it's recommended to take it with protein to test it out fully, and some say waiting 20-45 minutes after the meal works better.

I did it wrong I guess... I just took one pill after full meals (I tend to eat 3 meals a day, "grazing" has never worked for me) for a few months until one day it did give me the warmth sensation, which feels similar to heartburn but in the stomach. After that it I just stopped taking them, since I didn't want to bother with cutting the pills. But it seemed to work for me, so maybe you don't have to increase it so much in every case. Or perhaps my stomach acid wasn't extremely low.

Maybe we should start a new HCL topic though, I don't want to jack brenmc's progesterone thread! (:

No worries about diversifying the discussion on my thread, I don't mind at all. Im sorry to hear about both of your career issues; I myself was/am having trouble finding work in my field, so now Im back in school taking additional training. I guess the economy is doing a number on all of us.

So, hearts, did you find relief from your acne on Emerita brand or not until you started Natpro? Thats crazy that its twice as strong as Emerita! If youre using 80-100mg of NPC thats twice as strong as Emerita then maybe I should up my dose, since Im using the same amount of a half-as-effective cream? Ive read in other places that if you take too much NPC it can have a reverse effect and be inflammatory? Is that true? If so, how will I notice if Im taking too much, besides an increase of acne (which would be a challenge to measure since Im still breaking out as is)?

My sleep still isnt back on track and I still have breakouts, so Im feeling really frustrated. I know I have to be patient, but during the first two weeks of using NPC I had more relief from my symptoms, but now that initial effectiveness has seemed to of worn off. Did you experience that hearts?

Another issue Ive been having lately is that a lot more of my hair comes out in my brush than ever before. At first I thought it was just because my hair tends to get more tangled in the summer (swimming, wet hair, etc) but it has persisted into the Fall. I know some people say spiro can cause hair thinning but I never experienced that until now and have been on spiro for over three years. What else could be causing this?

I also recently came across a post somewhere about needing Vitamin D to process (or something) progesterone and I keep reading from GreenGables that Vitamin D acts like a hormone. Could you or WishClean explain this connection to me and how Vitamin D works like a hormone?

Thanks!

No, it didn't affect my skin at all either way since it doesn't play with hormones. Some articles say to increase the number of pills on each full meal (I wouldn't recommend taking it on snacks or empty stomach) or every day and then once you feel warmth or burning in your stomach, decrease the pill by one and that is your correct dose. Also, it's recommended to take it with protein to test it out fully, and some say waiting 20-45 minutes after the meal works better.

 

I did it wrong I guess... I just took one pill after full meals (I tend to eat 3 meals a day, "grazing" has never worked for me) for a few months until one day it did give me the warmth sensation, which feels similar to heartburn but in the stomach. After that it I just stopped taking them, since I didn't want to bother with cutting the pills. But it seemed to work for me, so maybe you don't have to increase it so much in every case. Or perhaps my stomach acid wasn't extremely low.

Maybe we should start a new HCL topic though, I don't want to jack brenmc's progesterone thread! (:

No, it didn't affect my skin at all either way since it doesn't play with hormones. Some articles say to increase the number of pills on each full meal (I wouldn't recommend taking it on snacks or empty stomach) or every day and then once you feel warmth or burning in your stomach, decrease the pill by one and that is your correct dose. Also, it's recommended to take it with protein to test it out fully, and some say waiting 20-45 minutes after the meal works better.

I did it wrong I guess... I just took one pill after full meals (I tend to eat 3 meals a day, "grazing" has never worked for me) for a few months until one day it did give me the warmth sensation, which feels similar to heartburn but in the stomach. After that it I just stopped taking them, since I didn't want to bother with cutting the pills. But it seemed to work for me, so maybe you don't have to increase it so much in every case. Or perhaps my stomach acid wasn't extremely low.

Maybe we should start a new HCL topic though, I don't want to jack brenmc's progesterone thread! (:

No worries about diversifying the discussion on my thread, I don't mind at all. Im sorry to hear about both of your career issues; I myself was/am having trouble finding work in my field, so now Im back in school taking additional training. I guess the economy is doing a number on all of us.

So, hearts, did you find relief from your acne on Emerita brand or not until you started Natpro? Thats crazy that its twice as strong as Emerita! If youre using 80-100mg of NPC thats twice as strong as Emerita then maybe I should up my dose, since Im using the same amount of a half-as-effective cream? Ive read in other places that if you take too much NPC it can have a reverse effect and be inflammatory? Is that true? If so, how will I notice if Im taking too much, besides an increase of acne (which would be a challenge to measure since Im still breaking out as is)?

My sleep still isnt back on track and I still have breakouts, so Im feeling really frustrated. I know I have to be patient, but during the first two weeks of using NPC I had more relief from my symptoms, but now that initial effectiveness has seemed to of worn off. Did you experience that hearts?

Another issue Ive been having lately is that a lot more of my hair comes out in my brush than ever before. At first I thought it was just because my hair tends to get more tangled in the summer (swimming, wet hair, etc) but it has persisted into the Fall. I know some people say spiro can cause hair thinning but I never experienced that until now and have been on spiro for over three years. What else could be causing this?

I also recently came across a post somewhere about needing Vitamin D to process (or something) progesterone and I keep reading from GreenGables that Vitamin D acts like a hormone. Could you or WishClean explain this connection to me and how Vitamin D works like a hormone?

Thanks!

Thanks! Sorry brenmc, I got off the topic with my own issues! Yeah, I will start an HCl thread if it's working. I took digestive enzymes these past 2 days because I hadn't taken them in a while, and no new breakouts. This is what happens every time I start taking them. Hmm...

Brenmc, I got diagnosed with vitamin D deficiency AND low progesterone....could be a coincidence but I do think that Vitamin D helps in promoting hormonal balance. It's actually a pro-hormone, not a vitamin, kind of like inositol. If you search vitamin D on acne.org, so many people rave about it. Unfortunately, I needed the plant-based type that I could only get from the doctor...I was one of the few people to break out from over the counter D supplements, so I suggest getting tested first if you can. I had all the symptoms, including SAD (seasonal affective disorder), and yet I couldn't tolerate the D3 supplements so I'm taking D2 instead.

Women with PCOS and other hormonal issues usually have low levels of vitamin D, in addition to others like magnesium, zinc, and inositol.

Good luck with the enzymes! I wish I had something to add to that but I know nothing about them. :-S

I actually saw mixed reviews on this site about Vitamin D. If over-the-counter D can potentially cause breakouts then I'd be worried about adding it to my current treatment plan. Is there no way to get the "safer" D that you use without a prescription?

 

No, it didn't affect my skin at all either way since it doesn't play with hormones. Some articles say to increase the number of pills on each full meal (I wouldn't recommend taking it on snacks or empty stomach) or every day and then once you feel warmth or burning in your stomach, decrease the pill by one and that is your correct dose. Also, it's recommended to take it with protein to test it out fully, and some say waiting 20-45 minutes after the meal works better.

I did it wrong I guess... I just took one pill after full meals (I tend to eat 3 meals a day, "grazing" has never worked for me) for a few months until one day it did give me the warmth sensation, which feels similar to heartburn but in the stomach. After that it I just stopped taking them, since I didn't want to bother with cutting the pills. But it seemed to work for me, so maybe you don't have to increase it so much in every case. Or perhaps my stomach acid wasn't extremely low.

Maybe we should start a new HCL topic though, I don't want to jack brenmc's progesterone thread! (:

No worries about diversifying the discussion on my thread, I don't mind at all. Im sorry to hear about both of your career issues; I myself was/am having trouble finding work in my field, so now Im back in school taking additional training. I guess the economy is doing a number on all of us.

So, hearts, did you find relief from your acne on Emerita brand or not until you started Natpro? Thats crazy that its twice as strong as Emerita! If youre using 80-100mg of NPC thats twice as strong as Emerita then maybe I should up my dose, since Im using the same amount of a half-as-effective cream? Ive read in other places that if you take too much NPC it can have a reverse effect and be inflammatory? Is that true? If so, how will I notice if Im taking too much, besides an increase of acne (which would be a challenge to measure since Im still breaking out as is)?

My sleep still isnt back on track and I still have breakouts, so Im feeling really frustrated. I know I have to be patient, but during the first two weeks of using NPC I had more relief from my symptoms, but now that initial effectiveness has seemed to of worn off. Did you experience that hearts?

Another issue Ive been having lately is that a lot more of my hair comes out in my brush than ever before. At first I thought it was just because my hair tends to get more tangled in the summer (swimming, wet hair, etc) but it has persisted into the Fall. I know some people say spiro can cause hair thinning but I never experienced that until now and have been on spiro for over three years. What else could be causing this?

I also recently came across a post somewhere about needing Vitamin D to process (or something) progesterone and I keep reading from GreenGables that Vitamin D acts like a hormone. Could you or WishClean explain this connection to me and how Vitamin D works like a hormone?

Thanks!

No worries about diversifying the discussion on my thread, I don't mind at all. Im sorry to hear about both of your career issues; I myself was/am having trouble finding work in my field, so now Im back in school taking additional training. I guess the economy is doing a number on all of us.

So, hearts, did you find relief from your acne on Emerita brand or not until you started Natpro? Thats crazy that its twice as strong as Emerita! If youre using 80-100mg of NPC thats twice as strong as Emerita then maybe I should up my dose, since Im using the same amount of a half-as-effective cream? Ive read in other places that if you take too much NPC it can have a reverse effect and be inflammatory? Is that true? If so, how will I notice if Im taking too much, besides an increase of acne (which would be a challenge to measure since Im still breaking out as is)?

My sleep still isnt back on track and I still have breakouts, so Im feeling really frustrated. I know I have to be patient, but during the first two weeks of using NPC I had more relief from my symptoms, but now that initial effectiveness has seemed to of worn off. Did you experience that hearts?

Another issue Ive been having lately is that a lot more of my hair comes out in my brush than ever before. At first I thought it was just because my hair tends to get more tangled in the summer (swimming, wet hair, etc) but it has persisted into the Fall. I know some people say spiro can cause hair thinning but I never experienced that until now and have been on spiro for over three years. What else could be causing this?

I also recently came across a post somewhere about needing Vitamin D to process (or something) progesterone and I keep reading from GreenGables that Vitamin D acts like a hormone. Could you or WishClean explain this connection to me and how Vitamin D works like a hormone?

Thanks!

Yes, Emerita brand helped me a lot, or I wouldn't have tried another brand at all. I'm sorry I wasn't very clear... I switched to Natpro purely for cost. I use half as much Natpro than Emerita, so it is the same amount.

I'm so sorry to hear that things aren't as good as they were initially for you. I have no idea why this is the case. Did you have any negative symptoms in the first couple weeks like the "wake-up" that I described? It's interesting if you didn't... you seem to be reacting differently to it. I didn't respond well at all in the first couple weeks, and it slowly got better.

Are you still taking spiro? How much are you taking? I'm not suggesting you stop, but that is another thing that I did differently. Spiro made my hair shed like crazy, but not until around the first year mark. Perhaps it's taking this long for you... since you didn't start progesterone until September or October I wouldn't say it is the cause. I read somewhere that hair responds quite a bit later to hormone upsets.

I definitely recommend taking vitamin D with progesterone, as it directly supports it. If you are deficient, it will reduce the effects of progesterone. Take a look at this study...

Conclusion: The results showed that recovery rate in patients with severe brain trauma in the group receiving progesterone and vitamin D together was significantly higher than that of progesterone group, which was in turn higher than that of placebo group.

You can read more about exactly what vitamin D is here. It also explains a little how it is converted from a vitamin into a hormone. I also want to point out, lack of vitamin D can cause sleep disturbances. This might be something to consider.

Personally, I take around 8,000iu of Vitamin D3 daily. I hope this helps, and I really hope things start turning up for you really soon! (:

Ok, so you're not actually taking a higher dose than me (80-100mg of Emerita)?

I'm taking 100mg of spiro but was thinking of trying 150mg if things don't start to clear soon. It's odd that my hair would shed now, three years later. But my hormones are obviously out of wack, hence the acne.

The first three days I started NPC I felt some tingling where I applied it and tired but then for two-three weeks had amazing sleeps and no breakouts, then things seemed to revert back to "normal" (pre-NPC).

WishClean and some reviews have mentioned that certain types of D cause breakouts. Did you notice that with the brand you're taking (at first)? What brand are you taking? Is your dose high or average?

Thanks!

 

 

No worries about diversifying the discussion on my thread, I don't mind at all. Im sorry to hear about both of your career issues; I myself was/am having trouble finding work in my field, so now Im back in school taking additional training. I guess the economy is doing a number on all of us.

So, hearts, did you find relief from your acne on Emerita brand or not until you started Natpro? Thats crazy that its twice as strong as Emerita! If youre using 80-100mg of NPC thats twice as strong as Emerita then maybe I should up my dose, since Im using the same amount of a half-as-effective cream? Ive read in other places that if you take too much NPC it can have a reverse effect and be inflammatory? Is that true? If so, how will I notice if Im taking too much, besides an increase of acne (which would be a challenge to measure since Im still breaking out as is)?

My sleep still isnt back on track and I still have breakouts, so Im feeling really frustrated. I know I have to be patient, but during the first two weeks of using NPC I had more relief from my symptoms, but now that initial effectiveness has seemed to of worn off. Did you experience that hearts?

Another issue Ive been having lately is that a lot more of my hair comes out in my brush than ever before. At first I thought it was just because my hair tends to get more tangled in the summer (swimming, wet hair, etc) but it has persisted into the Fall. I know some people say spiro can cause hair thinning but I never experienced that until now and have been on spiro for over three years. What else could be causing this?

I also recently came across a post somewhere about needing Vitamin D to process (or something) progesterone and I keep reading from GreenGables that Vitamin D acts like a hormone. Could you or WishClean explain this connection to me and how Vitamin D works like a hormone?

Thanks!

Yes, Emerita brand helped me a lot, or I wouldn't have tried another brand at all. I'm sorry I wasn't very clear... I switched to Natpro purely for cost. I use half as much Natpro than Emerita, so it is the same amount.

I'm so sorry to hear that things aren't as good as they were initially for you. I have no idea why this is the case. Did you have any negative symptoms in the first couple weeks like the "wake-up" that I described? It's interesting if you didn't... you seem to be reacting differently to it. I didn't respond well at all in the first couple weeks, and it slowly got better.

Are you still taking spiro? How much are you taking? I'm not suggesting you stop, but that is another thing that I did differently. Spiro made my hair shed like crazy, but not until around the first year mark. Perhaps it's taking this long for you... since you didn't start progesterone until September or October I wouldn't say it is the cause. I read somewhere that hair responds quite a bit later to hormone upsets.

I definitely recommend taking vitamin D with progesterone, as it directly supports it. If you are deficient, it will reduce the effects of progesterone. Take a look at this study...

Conclusion: The results showed that recovery rate in patients with severe brain trauma in the group receiving progesterone and vitamin D together was significantly higher than that of progesterone group, which was in turn higher than that of placebo group.

Ok, so you're not actually taking a higher dose than me (80-100mg of Emerita)?

I'm taking 100mg of spiro but was thinking of trying 150mg if things don't start to clear soon. It's odd that my hair would shed now, three years later. But my hormones are obviously out of wack, hence the acne.

The first three days I started NPC I felt some tingling where I applied it and tired but then for two-three weeks had amazing sleeps and no breakouts, then things seemed to revert back to "normal" (pre-NPC).

WishClean and some reviews have mentioned that certain types of D cause breakouts. Did you notice that with the brand you're taking (at first)? What brand are you taking? Is your dose high or average?

Thanks!

Correct. I still only use 40-100mg, depending on the time in my cycle and stress.

It might be strange that the hair shedding didn't happen until now on spiro, but it's not an impossible scenario. Before freaking out about it though, remember that every few years it is normal to go through a shedding phase with hair. It should only last 2-3 months, though.

Brenmc, the first months or years when a hormonal treatment starts working are the best. The side effects or new imbalances do not appear until prolonged use of the treatment. This goes for both bcp/synthetic drugs and herbs/ natural remedies. For instance, it's not uncommon for spiro to stop working for a few women after years of taking it - browse acne.org and other forums, there are complaints about this. There are also NPC reviews that report weight gain and estrogen dominance symptoms after years of success with NPC (which could be due to dermal fatigue, which can theoretically be avoidable or so I hope!). I was on vitex twice and at first it works great, then I start to grow more facial and body hair.

So I think that just beacause something is working initially doesn't mean that your body doesn't fluctuate during the treatment...maybe now you have some other issue that spiro can't address, in addition to high androgens. It's too bad you can't do the saliva testing to figure this out.

But adding vitamin D to your regimen might help, especially if you are deficient. Like I said, I'm one of the few people who break out from D3 supplements...for me, I think it's the yeast and oil they put in them for better absorption. It always breaks me out in areas I don't normally break out. It could also be the lanolin, that's why my doctor gave me a D2 prescription that is plant-based (although I'm sure they add fillers in the capsule, but the CVS pharmacist was clueless about it and avoided my questions). Anyway, if you look for vegetarian D2 you might be able to order it online, just make sure it's from a reputable website. Sometimes you never know what you might get if you use an online site. The issue with D2 is that it doesn't get absorbed as easily as D3 and therefore could take months to make an impact, if it does get absorbed. I'm not sure I'm properly/fully absorbing mine, so I make sure to take it with a meal that contains fat since that's the best way to ensure absorption. However, I need to go and recheck my leves because the doctor said if I have trouble absorbing the vitamin it could mean I have bigger issues than a vitamin D deficiency - maybe I have problems absorbing some nutrients.

Have you also looked into improving liver health? The liver is what breaks down all these supplements we take, and if it's overloaded then supplements and food don't get properly absorbed and get dumped into the blood stream as toxins....and if your gut and liver can't work properly to filter out the toxins through normal elimination pathways (when we pee & poop), then the skin is used as a means of releasing those toxins.

Thank you so much for all this detailed and insightful information! I appreciate you affirming that spiro can stop working, since most people say it can't (which just makes me feel more confused). It definitely is frustrating though!

I pretty much cycle through where I apply the NPC daily, so hopefully that will lessen dermal fatigue.

I'm a vegetarian myself, so I definitely want to find vegetarian D. If D2 is plant based, what is D3 made of?

What do you take for liver health, milk thistle? I try to use lemon a lot for liver health and I rarely drink alcohol.

Brenmc, the first months or years when a hormonal treatment starts working are the best. The side effects or new imbalances do not appear until prolonged use of the treatment. This goes for both bcp/synthetic drugs and herbs/ natural remedies. For instance, it's not uncommon for spiro to stop working for a few women after years of taking it - browse acne.org and other forums, there are complaints about this. There are also NPC reviews that report weight gain and estrogen dominance symptoms after years of success with NPC (which could be due to dermal fatigue, which can theoretically be avoidable or so I hope!). I was on vitex twice and at first it works great, then I start to grow more facial and body hair.

So I think that just beacause something is working initially doesn't mean that your body doesn't fluctuate during the treatment...maybe now you have some other issue that spiro can't address, in addition to high androgens. It's too bad you can't do the saliva testing to figure this out.

But adding vitamin D to your regimen might help, especially if you are deficient. Like I said, I'm one of the few people who break out from D3 supplements...for me, I think it's the yeast and oil they put in them for better absorption. It always breaks me out in areas I don't normally break out. It could also be the lanolin, that's why my doctor gave me a D2 prescription that is plant-based (although I'm sure they add fillers in the capsule, but the CVS pharmacist was clueless about it and avoided my questions). Anyway, if you look for vegetarian D2 you might be able to order it online, just make sure it's from a reputable website. Sometimes you never know what you might get if you use an online site. The issue with D2 is that it doesn't get absorbed as easily as D3 and therefore could take months to make an impact, if it does get absorbed. I'm not sure I'm properly/fully absorbing mine, so I make sure to take it with a meal that contains fat since that's the best way to ensure absorption. However, I need to go and recheck my leves because the doctor said if I have trouble absorbing the vitamin it could mean I have bigger issues than a vitamin D deficiency - maybe I have problems absorbing some nutrients.

Have you also looked into improving liver health? The liver is what breaks down all these supplements we take, and if it's overloaded then supplements and food don't get properly absorbed and get dumped into the blood stream as toxins....and if your gut and liver can't work properly to filter out the toxins through normal elimination pathways (when we pee & poop), then the skin is used as a means of releasing those toxins.

I have no personal experience with spiro, this is just based on the posts I came across on this and other forums saying that it stopped working after a few years. I'm guessing that if a treatment stops working, then it's time to retest the hormones and see what's happening. But since you live in a small town, you may have to do some trial and error if you can't find an expert to help you. Has your skin been improving?

From what I read about NPC, the best area to apply it that has no fat - and hence can't store the progesterone to the point of dermal fatigue - is on the vagina. However, for me that didn't feel comfortable because I was getting a numbing sensation. It might have been the brand I was using, or the fact that I already had other neuromuscular issues going on that I wasn't aware of, and maybe the cream brought them to the surface.

About D3 supplements, they are lanolin derived, meaning they come from the sebaceous glands of wool-wearing animals like sheep. But most people are not sensitive to D3 supplements, that's why I'm saying that if you are to try it you're most likely to benefit from it. My body is just too sensitive to something in the D3 supplements...I also get the same breakouts from B-complexes, which might have something to do with yeast as well. Anyway, I think you can try out D3 and see what happens.

I'm reading good things about calcium d-glucarate and its detoxification benefits. Apparently, it can work as well as DIM in helping the liver get rid of excess hormones. When we take pills and supplements, the liver works extra hard to break them down, that's why I think it's important to detoxify the liver once in a while.

My go-to detoxifier is l-glutathione. But it only works 2-3 weeks at a time, then you have to take a break from it. Milk thistle didn't work for me. I'm not sure if it was purging/detox or an allergic reaction, but my jawline broke out severely and I felt really sick. But again, I'm usually the exception to things that work for other people's acne so don't let my negative experiences deter you from trying it. If you try a low dose first you should be fine. My multi had a small dose of milk thistle and I never reacted to it, but when I took it separately all hell broke loose.

I'm researching the calcium d-glucarate now. It seems to be a multitasker like inositol and I like that.

Thanks WishClean. I too have very sensitive skin, so there are a lot of things I've tried that work for other people but result in bad side effects for me.

So then, D3 is vegetarian but not vegan?

I had the tingling when applying the cream as well but only for a few days. How long did you try NPC for?

I have no personal experience with spiro, this is just based on the posts I came across on this and other forums saying that it stopped working after a few years. I'm guessing that if a treatment stops working, then it's time to retest the hormones and see what's happening. But since you live in a small town, you may have to do some trial and error if you can't find an expert to help you. Has your skin been improving?

From what I read about NPC, the best area to apply it that has no fat - and hence can't store the progesterone to the point of dermal fatigue - is on the vagina. However, for me that didn't feel comfortable because I was getting a numbing sensation. It might have been the brand I was using, or the fact that I already had other neuromuscular issues going on that I wasn't aware of, and maybe the cream brought them to the surface.

About D3 supplements, they are lanolin derived, meaning they come from the sebaceous glands of wool-wearing animals like sheep. But most people are not sensitive to D3 supplements, that's why I'm saying that if you are to try it you're most likely to benefit from it. My body is just too sensitive to something in the D3 supplements...I also get the same breakouts from B-complexes, which might have something to do with yeast as well. Anyway, I think you can try out D3 and see what happens.

I'm reading good things about calcium d-glucarate and its detoxification benefits. Apparently, it can work as well as DIM in helping the liver get rid of excess hormones. When we take pills and supplements, the liver works extra hard to break them down, that's why I think it's important to detoxify the liver once in a while.

My go-to detoxifier is l-glutathione. But it only works 2-3 weeks at a time, then you have to take a break from it. Milk thistle didn't work for me. I'm not sure if it was purging/detox or an allergic reaction, but my jawline broke out severely and I felt really sick. But again, I'm usually the exception to things that work for other people's acne so don't let my negative experiences deter you from trying it. If you try a low dose first you should be fine. My multi had a small dose of milk thistle and I never reacted to it, but when I took it separately all hell broke loose.

I'm researching the calcium d-glucarate now. It seems to be a multitasker like inositol and I like that.

Yeah, I guess D3 is vegetarian because I actually tried the MegaFood brand, but something just didn't sit well with me. Most brands have yeast in them, that might be why because I have to avoid yeast. But like I said, I'm probably the exception here.

I tried the NPC for about 2 months, and I think that I did notice some slow improvement but mostly in my sleep and stress levels. Then I quit because of the numbness, but now that I figured out it's caused by herniated disks in my spine I think it was just a coincidence and not caused by the NPC. That's why I'm open to trying it again. I would probably do once a day though because it was hard sticking to a schedule twice a day. However, twice a day is the optimal because every 12 hours your body uses it up. How many times a day do you apply it?

Btw, I ordered calcium d-glucarate because it helps support the liver and flush out excess hormones, so I will be testing it out and letting you know if that might be worth considering. There isn't that much research on it though.

I'm also using enzymes again, and it's made a big difference.

Hearts, what brand of D do you use?

There is a health food store in my area called "Sprouts" and I take their store-brand vitamin D3. It might not be the very best, but it's affordable. I am not too picky about vitamin brands, haha. I have also never heard of anyone reacting badly to vitamin D3 until WishClean... not sure how common that result would be.

I am the opposite though... I'm not sensitive to anything except too much estrogen and androgens. Wheat is my only allergy. I'm sorry I'm not more helpful on which brands are best. It might be interesting to know that some people have cleared on vitamin D alone... knowing that it might be worth trying for a little while.

Balancing hormones was completely trial-and-error for me. You won't know if something is working for you until you wait 3-6 months and evaluate results then. Unfortunately, sometimes it's an error result, and you have to try something instead or in addition. If I could, I would go back in time and not waste 2 years on spiro, but I did find out some valuable information by trying it out.

Hearts, what brand of D do you use?

There is a health food store in my area called "Sprouts" and I take their store-brand vitamin D3. It might not be the very best, but it's affordable. I am not too picky about vitamin brands, haha. I have also never heard of anyone reacting badly to vitamin D3 until WishClean... not sure how common that result would be.

I am the opposite though... I'm not sensitive to anything except too much estrogen and androgens. Wheat is my only allergy. I'm sorry I'm not more helpful on which brands are best. It might be interesting to know that some people have cleared on vitamin D alone... knowing that it might be worth trying for a little while.

Balancing hormones was completely trial-and-error for me. You won't know if something is working for you until you wait 3-6 months and evaluate results then. Unfortunately, sometimes it's an error result, and you have to try something instead or in addition. If I could, I would go back in time and not waste 2 years on spiro, but I did find out some valuable information by trying it out.

Hearts, I think I have the same sensitivities as you (well, in addition to all the extra ones I have lol) because I was never clear on just antinadrogens, but I was clear on just estrogen/progesterone adjusters like vitex although with some androgen dominance symptoms. Which led me to believe that I need both to have clear skin and less facial hair. Otherwise it's one or the other, plus weight gain or too much weight loss.

I wish we had sprouts here. I usually go to Vitamin Shoppe or a local organic store but sometimes they sell expired supplements or they overcharge for them.

A few people complained about breaking out on D3 on the vitamin D threads but it's very rare. Also, the D3 breakouts I got were superficial and they went away a few days after stopping the D3, so at least that can put you in the right direction. If a D supplement is right for you, your skin will only get better, not worse before it gets better. Meaning, there's no initial breakout or anything....I thought there might be that's why I was sticking with the D3 supplements but then people were asking me why my skin got worse so I knew they weren't right for me. I tried several brands too...I have to avoid gelatin in supplements bc of histamine reactions, so I tried most of the vegetarian D3 supplements with no luck. I think you have nothing to lose by trying out D3 brenmc, at least you'll know pretty quickly if it's right for you or not. Whereas D2 can take months to be broken down by the liver...I'm not even sure mine has helped my skin that much, but I'm sure that it has greatly improved my mood.

Hi brenmc,

I just started using a natural progesterone cream about a week ago prescribed by a naturopath. I got hormone test done and it showed I have estrogen dominance and low progesterone. I used to only have a few pimples about 10 days or so before my period but then I tried a bunch of things to try to fix that, including a birth control pill, and I ended up making everything worse - should have gone to the naturopath and gotten the hormone test first. I didn't have insurance at the time and paid $150 for the hormone test plus about $300 for the naturopath but it's worth it considering all the money I've wasted trying to fix my skin without knowing the root cause (antibiotics, bcp, super expensive cleansers, you name it), so I'd highly recommend you see a naturopath or endocrinologist and get a hormone test. You can also order saliva hormone test kits online so you only have to pay for the test and not a doctor's visit, but it may be difficult for you to interpret the results on your own. Anyway, I thought I was supposed to put the npc on where the skin is thin, but I've read I'm actually supposed to be applying it where there are fat deposits, so I haven't been using it correctly. So far, I haven't seen a difference, but I think it's way too early to tell combined with my not using it properly. However, my skin has started to improve since I started to take Estroblock and Chromium (also prescribed by the naturopath - the Estroblock to metabolize excess estrogen and the Chromium to balance my blood sugar levels) I also take a women's multi-vitamin and Liv-tox to support the metabolic processes induced by the Estroblock. I've also found that the Mario Badescu acne-prone skin products help, especially the drying lotion and the acne serum. I only started all of this about a month ago, so it will take some time for me to see results. I'll keep you and the others interested in this topic posted. I am 27 and can't believe I have to deal with Acne!! I hope my experience can help other women suffering from hormonal acne. In addition, today I went to a spa and got a salicylic acid peel and microdermabrasion treatment to speed up the scar healing process. My treatment was super gentle, my face is kind of splotchy now, but I've read that you don't see results until after the skin peels. We'll see.

Acne is caused by elevated free testosterone and poor diet. You may be estrogen dominant and progesterone would help with that however PROGESTERONE POTENTIATES TESTOSTERONE.

DO NOT TAKE PROGESTERONE TO RESOLVE ACNE UNLESS PRESCRIBED BY YOUR DOC.

Switch to a paleolithic diet and post everything you eat for a week. Think this diet doesn't work. That's because it isn't followed. Food log will resolve this. Include everything you drink as well.

^^ Low progesterone and/or high estrogen can also cause acne, even if testosterone is within "normal" levels.

Thanks everyone for the advice and for elevating the discussion. As reductionist as it sounds, hormones are (obviously) very complex. For me, everything is trial and error because I do not have access to a specialist. I am happy to share my experiences in case something I try might work for someone else.

Speaking of my experience, I still have a VERY stubborn nodule. I started D a week ago in hopes this might help. A few smaller pimples I had on my cheek have gone down, but that could just be a coincidence, since pimples have a much shorter life cycle than cystic or nodular acne.

Please keep sending me good vibes everyone!

Thanks everyone for the advice and for elevating the discussion. As reductionist as it sounds, hormones are (obviously) very complex. For me, everything is trial and error because I do not have access to a specialist. I am happy to share my experiences in case something I try might work for someone else.

Speaking of my experience, I still have a VERY stubborn nodule. I started D a week ago in hopes this might help. A few smaller pimples I had on my cheek have gone down, but that could just be a coincidence, since pimples have a much shorter life cycle than cystic or nodular acne.

Please keep sending me good vibes everyone!

Good luck brenmc! Do you only have one nodule? If so, that's not bad at all, it's only 1 at least! But I understand the frustration because nodules take so long to go away. I never get nodules unless I eat something like too much sugar or sesame or other triggers. It's insane - my face swells up on one side of my mouth, and I get a huge nodule that I can't even squeeze bc it's hard.

If you are taking D3 and you need it, then you should see results fairly quickly, depending on the dose. I'm not sure how much you'd have to take, but there are some useful threads about it that discuss dosage.

How's the NPC working for you? As I said on hearts thread, I'm seeing my doctor on Wednesday and I will also ask about the NPC. She knows a lot about bioidentical hormone treatments. Let me know if you have any questions about NPC and I can ask her for you.

Hey WishClean. Sorry for the delayed reply, it has been a hectic week at school. I actually had three nodules, but had to have them injected because one was on the side of my mouth and made it so painful to eat. The one I referred to was particularly stubborn and did not go down with the injection. I have a couple on my cheeks at the moment, but they're not as bad as the ones I get on my chin.

I'm only taking one D3 pill, Swiss Naturals 1000IU. I'm wondering if I should take more because I live in a very overcast and grey climate?

The NPC is OK. I still have acne, so the ultimate purpose of taking it has not been realized, but I am trying to stay hopeful. However, lately I've really been thinking that the insulin component of PCOS could be the culprit to this onset of acne. Perhaps my glucosmart has lost effectiveness or my body has become used to it.

What a generous offer of you to ask your doctor any questions on my behalf! I do have a bunch of questions (because I don't have access to a specialist) but I don't want to bombard you. So I guess I'm really curious if she might have insight into why spiro or glucosmart may stop working or no longer work for an individual? And if there is anything complementary I could take to help facilitate NPC and/or spiro to work more effectively at controlling my acne? If you feel short on time, please do not feel obligated to make these inquired on my behalf. Even you just sharing the answers to your questions/experience would be very helpful.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice and for elevating the discussion. As reductionist as it sounds, hormones are (obviously) very complex. For me, everything is trial and error because I do not have access to a specialist. I am happy to share my experiences in case something I try might work for someone else.

Speaking of my experience, I still have a VERY stubborn nodule. I started D a week ago in hopes this might help. A few smaller pimples I had on my cheek have gone down, but that could just be a coincidence, since pimples have a much shorter life cycle than cystic or nodular acne.

Please keep sending me good vibes everyone!

Good luck brenmc! Do you only have one nodule? If so, that's not bad at all, it's only 1 at least! But I understand the frustration because nodules take so long to go away. I never get nodules unless I eat something like too much sugar or sesame or other triggers. It's insane - my face swells up on one side of my mouth, and I get a huge nodule that I can't even squeeze bc it's hard.

If you are taking D3 and you need it, then you should see results fairly quickly, depending on the dose. I'm not sure how much you'd have to take, but there are some useful threads about it that discuss dosage.

How's the NPC working for you? As I said on hearts thread, I'm seeing my doctor on Wednesday and I will also ask about the NPC. She knows a lot about bioidentical hormone treatments. Let me know if you have any questions about NPC and I can ask her for you.

Hey! No worries, I usually log in to procrastinate from other things, haha. Sorry you had to get your nodule injected. Hopefully it was the last time. I get cold sores near my mouth, but they swell to the size of nodules sometimes, so it's hard to tell what they are. I only get them from food allergies, though, never hormonally. They always appear near my mouth. I also get the same ones if I use toothpaste/mouthwash with sulfates. It's so annoying, but at least if I avoid those things I never get them. Are yours hormonal?

Sure, I will ask the doctor why some medications stop working after a while, I'd be interested to know too. I will also ask her about combining treatments. She doesn't cut appointments short - she takes enough time to answer questions and discuss, that's why I like going to this office.

Hmm, not sure about how much D3 would be ideal.... it varies, depending on what source you check. Don't take too much though because it's not water soluble and can cause toxicity, but that's at doses much higher than what you are taking.

About insulin resistance...I think this was key for me as well, because my blood sugar used to get really low abruptly and I felt like I would pass out if I didn't eat something sweet. But this happened mostly while I was on birth control or when I used to eat candy every day. Now I hardly crave sugar anymore since changing my diet. I think maybe give myo-inositol a try, it can help with everything except regulating excess estrogen. And it might boost the effects of NPC, since it also helps with progesterone increase. But based on hearts' experience with NPC, I don't think it can help much with excess estrogen, if you have that too. It can regulate estrogen up to a point, mostly by boosting progesterone to balance the estrogen: progesterone ratio, but if you have too much estrogen you need something to filter it out of your body. That's why I'm trying calcium d-glucarate, and if that is too mild for me, I'll move on to DIM. For that, though, I want to wait until my hormone tests to be sure my estrogen is high. Do you have any estrogen dominance symptoms?

Hey WishClean. Sorry for the delayed reply, it has been a hectic week at school. I actually had three nodules, but had to have them injected because one was on the side of my mouth and made it so painful to eat. The one I referred to was particularly stubborn and did not go down with the injection. I have a couple on my cheeks at the moment, but they're not as bad as the ones I get on my chin.

I'm only taking one D3 pill, Swiss Naturals 1000IU. I'm wondering if I should take more because I live in a very overcast and grey climate?

The NPC is OK. I still have acne, so the ultimate purpose of taking it has not been realized, but I am trying to stay hopeful. However, lately I've really been thinking that the insulin component of PCOS could be the culprit to this onset of acne. Perhaps my glucosmart has lost effectiveness or my body has become used to it.

What a generous offer of you to ask your doctor any questions on my behalf! I do have a bunch of questions (because I don't have access to a specialist) but I don't want to bombard you. So I guess I'm really curious if she might have insight into why spiro or glucosmart may stop working or no longer work for an individual? And if there is anything complementary I could take to help facilitate NPC and/or spiro to work more effectively at controlling my acne? If you feel short on time, please do not feel obligated to make these inquired on my behalf. Even you just sharing the answers to your questions/experience would be very helpful.