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I get the feeling that Dr Skin Clinic in Melbourne is setting new standards in fraxel treatment. They seem to be the only place going up to 35 for standard acne scar treatment. Heck, Dr Benson told me he treated a guy for severe scarring at level 35 with 20 passes! That would feel like burning your face off!
I think those treated with level 35 would set a whole new standard of results compared to those in the 20-30 range.
I'm tempted to ask for 35 in my next treatment. That's pushing the limit of the fraxel in this case. I guess the trade-off is longer down-time. The advantage is that at 35 it would probably penetrate the dermis to a deeper level than the CO laser ever could.
Blaster
Hey Blaster,
With severe acne scarring there's a lot of scar tissue. Could it be the higher MJ is needed to break it up, but not necessarily to stimulate more collagen. In terms of collagen stimulation, I think there's got to be a MJ threshold where you're destroying more than than the body can build.
I get the feeling that Dr Skin Clinic in Melbourne is setting new standards in fraxel treatment. They seem to be the only place going up to 35 for standard acne scar treatment. Heck, Dr Benson told me he treated a guy for severe scarring at level 35 with 20 passes! That would feel like burning your face off!
I think those treated with level 35 would set a whole new standard of results compared to those in the 20-30 range.
I'm tempted to ask for 35 in my next treatment. That's pushing the limit of the fraxel in this case. I guess the trade-off is longer down-time. The advantage is that at 35 it would probably penetrate the dermis to a deeper level than the CO laser ever could.
Blaster
I saw my dermatologist yesterday and am going in for my 2nd round of Fraxel in September. He has the new tip for Fraxel, and said they are able to go up to 70!!! He is going to start me at 50. Can you believe it? He's been using it for about 2-3 months now. Hopefully I'll be able to hear about people's results from this by September. He also told me there is still about 5 days downtime from it, but the pain while having the treatment done is less.
I get the feeling that Dr Skin Clinic in Melbourne is setting new standards in fraxel treatment. They seem to be the only place going up to 35 for standard acne scar treatment. Heck, Dr Benson told me he treated a guy for severe scarring at level 35 with 20 passes! That would feel like burning your face off!
I think those treated with level 35 would set a whole new standard of results compared to those in the 20-30 range.
I'm tempted to ask for 35 in my next treatment. That's pushing the limit of the fraxel in this case. I guess the trade-off is longer down-time. The advantage is that at 35 it would probably penetrate the dermis to a deeper level than the CO laser ever could.
Blaster
I saw my dermatologist yesterday and am going in for my 2nd round of Fraxel in September. He has the new tip for Fraxel, and said they are able to go up to 70!!! He is going to start me at 50. Can you believe it? He's been using it for about 2-3 months now. Hopefully I'll be able to hear about people's results from this by September. He also told me there is still about 5 days downtime from it, but the pain while having the treatment done is less.
#1cubsfan, would you be willing to give me your Dermatologist's #? I am still unable to identify this new tip through Reliant and would like to ask my Doc to get one.
It's 8.5 weeks since my last Fraxel and I went for evaluation yesterday. This is my update :
Good news is, I have seen a vey good improvment in scars and pores....I would say around 55-60 %. I saw a lot of progress and filling up of the scars between 4th and 8th weeks as skin healed. Am not sure, I would see more progress. In last 5 years of my scar improvment efforts, for the first time, I am seeing light at the end of the tunnel. I have a couple of scars that didn't respond that well but I have decided to fill them up with Sculptra as Fraxel is not efficient for just a few scars.
Bad news is, I still have very prominent and stubborn hyperpigmentation. In fact, as surrounding skin is healing more and returning to the normal skin color and tone, it looks darker and darker. I guess, it must be there all during the treatment but I didn't realize it how much, as it takes a long time for skin to return to normal color and next treatment is done before that. In spite of using Triluma aggresively, it is not budging. So, y'day I did a peel called "vitalize" from skin medica. I will peel in about 2-3 days and would know if it would be effective. I would do a couple of more vitalize peels and if nothing works, I would turn to Obagi blue peel in around September.
I don't have that that dark skin tone, am type 3 ( fair olive skin, brown hair/eyes ) and so, was not expecting hyperpigmentation that stubborn. Interestingly, Fraxel hyperpigmentation is more severe than what I saw when I did a spot dermabrasion.
At this point, am very happy with the results. From hyperpigmentation point of view, I am really glad that I was not treated with more aggressive settings ( my last was 18 ) as I had only mild scarring and I did spot treatments, so untreated area didn't get affected.
From my own Fraxel experience, observing / analyzing how it works and other scar treatments,
and from my consultations with different doctors, I would not suggest Fraxel to someone with moderate or severe scarring.....even though high settings and many # of treatments are used. This I find, is a limitation of this modality / techonology apart from the other variables. It is quite likely to work well for mild scarring. In my opinion, for moderate/severe scarring, a suitable scar revision procedure ( subcision, grafts, excision, floats, needling, TCA CROSS ) is absolutely essential before Fraxel or any resurfacing. Fraxel can't be as highly focused and localized as these treatments are. Just to give idea about my scarring....before starting Fraxel, I have seen at least 3 dermatologists/plastic surgeons for further scar revision and all thought that they were too small and shallow to cut,open, or fill. I guess, that is the right point to try any resurfacing including Fraxel.
Hope this helps and I would keep on posting about my hyperpigmentation progress.
Like always, I felt baffled after reading new high setting #s and to get more sense out of it, I called tech support of Reliant to confirm. So, directly from horses's mouth.....
The Fraxel machine has maximum possible energy setting of 40 mj and that corresponds to the depth of 900 microns. When asked how safe it is to be treated at 40, he said, Reliant cautions that anything above 25 mj has potential for blistering and scarring and is to be used with the discretion of the doctor.
Like Lexus, I couldn't verify new tip that doesn't need blue dye. New tip is only to treat inconvenient or difficult to access areas.
This is the # I called : 1-888-437-2935 and asked for tech support.
The Fraxel machine has maximum possible energy setting of 40 mj and that corresponds to the depth of 900 microns. When asked how safe it is to be treated at 40, he said, Reliant cautions that anything above 25 mj has potential for blistering and scarring and is to be used with the discretion of the doctor.
The problem is finding doctors willing to use those high settings. I just had #6 and am only at 16mjs despite my best efforts to persuade them to go higher. I only have one more treatment left in this package and already plan to have more, but only if they treat at 20mjs. (the highest setting they will use because of the scarring and blistering issue). I AM happy with my results so far, but am beginning to get irritated about not getting enough bang for my buck so to speak.
I get the feeling that Dr Skin Clinic in Melbourne is setting new standards in fraxel treatment. They seem to be the only place going up to 35 for standard acne scar treatment. Heck, Dr Benson told me he treated a guy for severe scarring at level 35 with 20 passes! That would feel like burning your face off!
I think those treated with level 35 would set a whole new standard of results compared to those in the 20-30 range.
I'm tempted to ask for 35 in my next treatment. That's pushing the limit of the fraxel in this case. I guess the trade-off is longer down-time. The advantage is that at 35 it would probably penetrate the dermis to a deeper level than the CO laser ever could.
Blaster
I saw my dermatologist yesterday and am going in for my 2nd round of Fraxel in September. He has the new tip for Fraxel, and said they are able to go up to 70!!! He is going to start me at 50. Can you believe it? He's been using it for about 2-3 months now. Hopefully I'll be able to hear about people's results from this by September. He also told me there is still about 5 days downtime from it, but the pain while having the treatment done is less.
#1cubsfan, would you be willing to give me your Dermatologist's #? I am still unable to identify this new tip through Reliant and would like to ask my Doc to get one.
His name is Dr. Kovak in Elmhurst, IL. His # 630-758-0470
50-60 percent! That's the best reported so far. Pictures pretty please 
Glad to hear it helped your pores so much. Seems every other treatment just makes them worse. Finally something for this orange peel skin!
I have the same skin type as CoolBreeze. Getting just the upper cheeks done might leave me with a sharp hyperpigmentation line, huh?
A lot of people posted that their derm prescribed bleaching cream for this . . . does that help you guys much?
JJ,
I certainly agree that a picture presents more objective info and is worth thousand words but am still working on my hyperpigmentation and will not consider my Fraxel treatment done unless I get rid of it.
So, my doctor didn't click any after pictures. But I would certainly like to post them in future.
I would also like to point out a few things :
The scarred pores are deeper ( even though look smaller ) and normally have sharper edges and it took almost like 5 treatments to see noticeable progress. On the contrary, I saw shallow/wider scars responding much faster than pores ( after 3rd treatment ). After 8 treatments, the area where there are scarred pores defintely looks more "homogeneous" to the normal eye though I can see their edges in X5 mirror.
The hyperpigmentation is not due to spot treatments. It's 'cause of my skin type / tone and healing response of non-white skin to deeper injury. I have not heard anyone with white skin reporting hyperpigmentation.
If you have white skin, probably, you might not have this problem.
The bleaching cream I have used is Triluma which is a strong bleach and have helped me in the past but is not helping me much with Fraxel hyperpigmentation.
Widgie - I too would be upset at your Doc for not going above 20. If you are female, you are gorgeous.
Coolbreeze - Sorry about the hyper. Would it be less of problem if entire face was treated? Or, would there be demarcation along jaw? This has not been issue for me, even though I have dark/golden tan.
I had # 4 (my last) today and nurse complimented me on my tan but then scolded me. I swim every day for about 1 hour, with sunscreen or after sun goes down. But, I still tan, and frankly, I like a tan.
I told my nurse about the high settings I read about here and she told me that their Reliant Rep told them that docs in SoCal are going way higher than what their Med Director is comfortable with. I mentioned Australia but she had not heard about practices there. I have had the highest settings at their Spa. Today, was same as # 3; 8 passes x 125 mtz x 25mjs, except that I persuaded her to do 2 more passes at 30 over areas with scars. She decided to use the regular tip, as opposed to small tip for nose, so she covered a lot of territory on cheeks/jaws. I had wanted her to do this last time, but she refused because I had some pinpoint bleediing under eyes (and forehead), where i don't have scars. Total energy per counter on machine was 11.7 KJs.
Anyway, I feel comfortable that this procedure does not require a Doc, other than for consults and complications, if you want to save money. They have 3 nurses (and a fourth was observing/training today) that perform procedure.
They really, really want me to come back in 6 weeks for pictures and a computerized facial scan. This is part of my package, but I have to travle 70 miles. The computerized scan measures with %tile ranks for Spots, Pores, Porphyrins, wrinkles, texture and UV Spots against a normative data base for a male my age. Having looked at my intial results and what the scan highlighted on my cheeks, I believe the Pores ranking is a good proxy for acne scars, as well as for pores and scarred pores. So, i think I will do this and will let you know results. In theory, this is an objective comparsion of pre to post.
JJ : They definitely look smoother two or 3 inches from the bathroom mirror.
Billyboy : The kind of hyperpigmentation am experiencing is, intermittent light brown patches and dark brown spots on them which emerged during healing. They are not demarcation lines. In fact, I feel glad that I spot treated my face so they are only on treated areas and my untreated skin is clear. It's good that you are not having any hyperpigmentation issues.....it does test patience on top of the treatment time.
Apart from that, am very happy about the scar improvement and don't think I would need anything more.
I have had 2-4 of my deep scars on my right cheek disappear after my 4th fraxel. Rather they don't disappear but get filled in till they are flush with the surface.
Have to say, I am very pleased with my progress so far, especially after the 3rd and 4th treatment, that is when I started to see the most difference. Thus far I can say I have seen 30-35% improvement. I am going to do a more aggressive 5th treatment and then do one last treatment after that.
Things look on track for a 50-60% improvement overall. Some scars have filled in and have improved far better than others. Ice pick scars show the least improvement thus far, but then again I have to reserve final judgement till 3 months after my last treatment. I am very optimistic about the end result based on the progress I have seen.
The only question is now, how aggressive should I go for my 5th and 6th treatment. I figure I might as well go all out and aim for treatment at level 35.
Blaster
Just wondering if anyone had any scars actually dissapear after fraxel?
Incognita,
In response to your question, my doctor's name is Richard E. Fitzpatrick, Director of Dermatology Division @ www.ljcsc.com. He is also featured @ www.fraxel.com. He took part along with other doctors in creating fraxel. He also created the TNS recovery complex that help rebuild new collagen. I use TNS as part of my regimen. There are a few members here that also uses TNS. Okey I'm sounding too much like a commercial so I think I need to stop.
Epiquin Micro is a perscribed bleaching agent. I have been using it for the past 4 weeks and I can say that it does work immensily. It's been 7 days now since my second fraxel and my skin didn't darken as much. Consult with your doctor on what bleaching cream would be best for you. If the one you're using works for you why switch. Best wishes.
I have had 2-4 of my deep scars on my right cheek disappear after my 4th fraxel. Rather they don't disappear but get filled in till they are flush with the surface.
Have to say, I am very pleased with my progress so far, especially after the 3rd and 4th treatment, that is when I started to see the most difference. Thus far I can say I have seen 30-35% improvement. I am going to do a more aggressive 5th treatment and then do one last treatment after that.
Things look on track for a 50-60% improvement overall. Some scars have filled in and have improved far better than others. Ice pick scars show the least improvement thus far, but then again I have to reserve final judgement till 3 months after my last treatment. I am very optimistic about the end result based on the progress I have seen.
The only question is now, how aggressive should I go for my 5th and 6th treatment. I figure I might as well go all out and aim for treatment at level 35.
Blaster
Just wondering if anyone had any scars actually dissapear after fraxel?
Hi Morning Star,
The skin clinic took pictures before each of my treatments, so I will try to get my hands on them on my next visit which will be on 21st July. Will post the pictures once I get them.
Don't expect any results after your second fraxel. It's unlikely you will see progress till after your 4th fraxel. It's a cumulative treatment. Also your treatment would have to be aggressive to see results in acne scarring.
Blaster.
Blaster,
Can you please post your before and after pictures. You're one of the few in here who are being treated at high levels. I really want to see how your progressing. After my second fraxel I haven't notice much improvement with my scars. Thanks.
morning star
Like always, I felt baffled after reading new high setting #s and to get more sense out of it, I called tech support of Reliant to confirm. So, directly from horses's mouth.....
The Fraxel machine has maximum possible energy setting of 40 mj and that corresponds to the depth of 900 microns. When asked how safe it is to be treated at 40, he said, Reliant cautions that anything above 25 mj has potential for blistering and scarring and is to be used with the discretion of the doctor.
Like Lexus, I couldn't verify new tip that doesn't need blue dye. New tip is only to treat inconvenient or difficult to access areas.
This is the # I called : 1-888-437-2935 and asked for tech support.
Hi
I go to DrSkin in australia and I had my first fraxel at 35.
At 35 I was left with some blistering and a scar like indentation on my cheek. Ive had 2 more since which have ranged between 25- 35 and that scar has disappeared.
Of course the downtime at 35 is much longer than lower settings. You need to hibernate for at least 3 days. By day 4 I was fine to go out with make up on.
Blaster and Coolbreeze- I am really pleased for your success.
Annie- At # 4 yesterday, the nurse was willing to go 30 on me because I had done 25 the time before. I knew I could grit my teeth and take the pain without injections, so my issue was "safety". The highest she had gone on other patients was 20. Despite the success in Australia at these high settings, I just felt safer going at 25 x 125 x 8 passes, with an extra 2 passes at 30 on areas with scarring. I am 95% sure that I would have gotten a better result at 30, but I also think there was a low chance that something bad could happen, which would be stupid for trying to treat mild scarring. Anyway, I hope this thought process is helpful.
Cobra : I have experienced complete filling up of shallow indentations left after dermal grafts. Also, other small / shallow scars are fully filled except two which still look slightly depressed in the hard light. My scarred pores are improved in a different way. Their diameter got smaller and smaller. Percentage wise, improvement in pores is less than shallow scars. I still see sharp edges of the pores from certain angle but still am quite happy with the progress.
Morningstar : Am glad to read that you are happy with Epiquin Micro. My time with Triluma would be over in another week and can't continue to use it as it has steroid. After that, am prescribed Epiquin Micro. I have heard positive reviews about it but knowing that it is working for someone treated with Fraxel is good.
Billyboy : I agree 100% with your approach. You can always try higher setting in the next treatment ( if you decide to do more ) if you feel heal without problems at 30 and if there are any not so obvious problems. It's always good to follow gut / instinct. Good luck for the continued progress for your 4th treatment.
jagger : I was a bit surprised to read that your doctors continued next treatments with 35 inspite of blistering /indentation during first but am glad it was just temporary and you didn't have similar problem after that. I hope, you get good results. Am sure, US doctors have more conservative approach and might have lowered setting. My doctor is extra cautious.....sometimes annoyingly but after facing hyperpigmentation, I feel glad about that.
Thanks alot for answering Morning Star, will check the site.
regards
S
Incognita,
In response to your question, my doctor's name is Richard E. Fitzpatrick, Director of Dermatology Division @ www.ljcsc.com. He is also featured @ www.fraxel.com. He took part along with other doctors in creating fraxel. He also created the TNS recovery complex that help rebuild new collagen. I use TNS as part of my regimen. There are a few members here that also uses TNS. Okey I'm sounding too much like a commercial so I think I need to stop.
Epiquin Micro is a perscribed bleaching agent. I have been using it for the past 4 weeks and I can say that it does work immensily. It's been 7 days now since my second fraxel and my skin didn't darken as much. Consult with your doctor on what bleaching cream would be best for you. If the one you're using works for you why switch. Best wishes.
I have had 2-4 of my deep scars on my right cheek disappear after my 4th fraxel. Rather they don't disappear but get filled in till they are flush with the surface.
Have to say, I am very pleased with my progress so far, especially after the 3rd and 4th treatment, that is when I started to see the most difference. Thus far I can say I have seen 30-35% improvement. I am going to do a more aggressive 5th treatment and then do one last treatment after that.
Things look on track for a 50-60% improvement overall. Some scars have filled in and have improved far better than others. Ice pick scars show the least improvement thus far, but then again I have to reserve final judgement till 3 months after my last treatment. I am very optimistic about the end result based on the progress I have seen.
The only question is now, how aggressive should I go for my 5th and 6th treatment. I figure I might as well go all out and aim for treatment at level 35.
Blaster
Just wondering if anyone had any scars actually dissapear after fraxel?
Incognita : Triluma is a prescription bleach. You can read more about it on www.triluma.com
What I like about it is, it has steroid, fluocinolone acetonide besides retinol and hydroquinone 4 % which prevents redness / irritation caused by the latter two. So, works well for sensitive skin. But cause of the same, it can't be used for more than 8 weeks at a time. It worked great for me in the past but somehow, was not that effective this time. Maybe, my skin got immuned to it
Hi. I am a 26 year old Chinese female and I've been looking into getting Fraxel done. My doctor doesn't have too much experience with Asian skin and was pretty honest about the hyperpigmentation problems on several Asian patients she's done Fraxel on. I got fairly tan previous to my consultation and my doctor prescribe me soloquine to use for 3 or 4 weeks prior to my first Fraxel and for several months after the Fraxel. This is suppose to suppress the melanocytes that cause hyperpigmentation. She insists on starting at a level 6 or 8.
Has anyone used soloquine?
Coolbreeze: You're Asian and had hyperpigmentation right? What levels did your doc start on?
Blaster,
It seems Australia are taking Fraxel to the next level. Fraxel is still fairly new and I am just wondering if you're the first patients to go 30kj and above? I am making a copy of your treatment levels to my doctor and see what he thinks. Here in the U.S. the doctor's standards are still conservative with the exception of billybob in San Francisco. Blaster, what skin type are you? And did that help factor on the levels you are being treated at?
thanks,
morning star
coolbreeze,
Iam glad that you are going to try Epiquin Micro. What's great about it, is that it contains moisturizer that helps with the dryness after having fraxel. I was wondering how you did with Triluma? Did it help eliminate all the hyperpigmentation in 8 weeks? I am also interested to know what skin type are you?
To everyone here,
Has anyone discover what best conceler to hide dark spots that does not melt in high humidity. I am currently using Derma Blend. The only problem is that they don't have the right shade coverage for my skin tone orange/yellow undertones. Any suggestions?