thanks for the info. did your doctor say it would have the same results because my doc said if u put the zimmer machine too close or crank it up too high your results wouldnt be as good.

 

It's too soon to tell. I believe they just started using it this month. They think they will get much better results.

Blaster

I have a very high pain tolerance as I have had chronic back pain for 25 years and was an athlete. Just now recovering from my third major back surgery and have drugs so that helped me no doubt. But, I was cautious becasue I had to drive 75 miles home post op. Pain was not a problem for me. The redness is. I hope you are right about improvement - it is so subtle to see becasue it evolves over time. Before I learned of Fraxel, I was considering a dermabrasion by Dr Y. While I am glad I am going this route for risk/downtime reasons, my image is that a light derm sanding would completely eliminate my many shallow scars/scarred pores. I am not sure Fraxel will completely eliminate these smaller scars from what I see so far. But, maybe my vision of dermabrasion is too influenced by working with wood refinishing. Who knows?

Believe me, I did not seek company, but 2 neighbors came over briefly and I had a deep tissue massage yesterday on butt on leg muscles to see if we can get the cramping down. I have also gone for long walks in ealry AM or night. I was honest with people but I do wear a hat so that I don't scare women and children. Also, I still have 2 teenage girls living at home, so I have not been in hiding.

Best wishes my friend and keep us posted on progress

Hi all!

I had gotten my settings from my first fraxel all wrong. I didnt have it done at 18-20 mj as i thought. I had it between 20 and 30!!! SHOCK HORROR!!. Needless to say when i found out i nearly fell out of my chair! And it was 14 passes. ITs been 3 weeks since my first fraxel and im still peeling quite badly. I'm not too sure if swelling is still present. Still fairly pink. Not makinga judgement on scars yet. Not till after the 4th or 5th week.

Well guys plz keep posting. ANd also do you guys think Fraxel might be a high=tech version of needling?

Thanks

love

M

M-Mite

No wonder your peeling has lasted so long. I bet you get a suberb result. My limited experience suggests a strong correlation between treatment energy, resulting downtime and efficacy. I know nothing of needling, so can't comment.

I had # 3 6 days ago at 25 and I am seeing a nice result. I stopped peeling 2 days ago. I am older and have always spent a lot of time in sun (not now though), so I feared that my collagen production ability might be compromised, but I am happy with most recent result. Still pink with dry tight skin, no bronzing yet. Did someone mention that bronzing is less prominent in subsequent treatments?

Hi M-Mite,

I had exactly the same treatment as you for my 3rd fraxel, 25-30mJ at 14 passes. I can imagine you would look quite bad after treatment like I did for the first 6 days. It's been 11 days since my treatment and I am still quite pink all over, though my forehead is reducing. I would be interested to compare my recovery rate with yours.

It is impressive that they went so aggressive on your first treatment! Seeing how each treatment is of higher intensity I wonder what they will give you for your second treatment???!

You would experience a great deal of swelling which will likely only subside after the 4th week.

The good news is that seeing how aggressive your treatment is, by the 4th treatment you should have impressive results.

Out of curiosity, how old are you and which doctor treated you?

Blaster

Hi all!

 

I had gotten my settings from my first fraxel all wrong. I didnt have it done at 18-20 mj as i thought. I had it between 20 and 30!!! SHOCK HORROR!!. Needless to say when i found out i nearly fell out of my chair! And it was 14 passes. ITs been 3 weeks since my first fraxel and im still peeling quite badly. I'm not too sure if swelling is still present. Still fairly pink. Not makinga judgement on scars yet. Not till after the 4th or 5th week.

Well guys plz keep posting. ANd also do you guys think Fraxel might be a high=tech version of needling?

 

Thanks

love

M

 

Hey Blaster! I have a few questions:

How much time are you taking between treatments?

How are your ice pick scars responding?

Did you get any blistering? Is that known to be a common side effect at all?

How has your experience been with Dr Skin clinic?

If you could post some pics that would be great! I'm very interested.

I have mildly sensitive skin I guess, I also have some broken veins which have been helped a lot with red light treatments though. Mostly my scars are very surface shallow.

Thanks dude.

Hi,

I'm taking 5 weeks between treatments. My ice pick scars don't seem to be responding well, I barely see any improvement after the 3rd treatment. I would say 5% at best.

I have not experienced any blistering thus far.

My experience with Dr Skin is that they are aggressive with treatments, which is good. They could easily put me on a 8 treatment program and delay progress for the sake of money, but they push for aggressive improvement through escalating the treatment quickly. I think the fact that they start the first treatment at level 20 says enough. The doctors are up to date with the literature and have a lot of experience with acne scar treatments.

I feel that you will only see improvement after the 3rd treatment so one has to be patient. I'm hoping the aggressive route I have taken will translate into significant progress. I feel a 50% achievement would be excellent.

I don't have a digital camera, so can't post pictures. I think ideally I have to compare with photos before I started treatment.

Regards,

Blaster

Hey Blaster! I have a few questions:

 

How much time are you taking between treatments?

 

How are your ice pick scars responding?

 

Did you get any blistering? Is that known to be a common side effect at all?

 

How has your experience been with Dr Skin clinic?

 

If you could post some pics that would be great! I'm very interested.

 

I have mildly sensitive skin I guess, I also have some broken veins which have been helped a lot with red light treatments though. Mostly my scars are very surface shallow.

 

Thanks dude.

 

Hmm 5 weeks is a while, all the stuff I've read they say around a week apart is the most effective/ideal for complete collagen remodelling or something? Or is that just for the lower settings?

Treatment intervals of less than 2 weeks are only suitable for settings below 10mj. As is most of the people on this board - the treatment for acne scars require 20mj and above, so it would take on average at least 3-4 weeks for the skin to completely heal. If there is risk of hyperpigmentation than up to 5 weeks, as is my case.

As we move to levels up to 30mj with multiple passes, 5-6 weeks recovery would be norm.

Blaster

Hmm 5 weeks is a while, all the stuff I've read they say around a week apart is the most effective/ideal for complete collagen remodelling or something? Or is that just for the lower settings?

 

Treatment intervals of less than 2 weeks are only suitable for settings below 10mj. As is most of the people on this board - the treatment for acne scars require 20mj and above, so it would take on average at least 3-4 weeks for the skin to completely heal. If there is risk of hyperpigmentation than up to 5 weeks, as is my case.

 

Where is this info from? Is this what your Dr. has told you or is there a source somewhere that you got it from? I'm just curious because I am also getting aggressive treatments (above 20 now) and my sessions are spaced a week apart. From what I was told, the repairing of your skin happens for months even after your last treatment so the spacing doesn't matter that much. Although you do experience red, flaky skin pretty much consistantly throughout the treatments. I don't know, I've read so many PS sites about how they perform Fraxel and the information is so inconsistant I just am confused as to what to believe anymore. I guess I'll have to stick out my last four treatments and see what happens. 😉 If anything I'll be able to post here how successful (or not) weekly treatments were.

I have to go with Blaster on time interval for 2 reasons. First, at the very high energy levels, your skin takes much longer to heal. I beleive, as do my docs, that another Fraxel is going to interfere with that healing response, so it is best to wait (by the way, I don't think anyone knows for sure, but I do recall reading something about this on a Reliant connected site). Second, I prefer to see how I respond before taking the next big step. Maybe some complication will arise at these high settings that will cause you to rethink what you want to do on next one. Or, maybe you will decide that you need to rachet up even more.

At low levels, I think every week is fine.

I have to go with Blaster on time interval for 2 reasons. First, at the very high energy levels, your skin takes much longer to heal. I beleive, as do my docs, that another Fraxel is going to interfere with that healing response, so it is best to wait (by the way, I don't think anyone knows for sure, but I do recall reading something about this on a Reliant connected site). Second, I prefer to see how I respond before taking the next big step. Maybe some complication will arise at these high settings that will cause you to rethink what you want to do on next one. Or, maybe you will decide that you need to rachet up even more.

At low levels, I think every week is fine.

 

Interesting.... I think I'm going to ask about all this at my fourth appointment on Friday and see what they have to say. Part of me just wants to get the treatments over with as quickly as possible. However the more rational part of me obviously wants the best results, so if more spacing between treatments is the way to go, I'll have to grin and bear it. I just think I'm having a bit of Fraxel depression. This is a difficult process to go through, although I do think it is one of the better treatments for acne scarring.

Billyboy- thanks. Im not too sure about bronzing with followup treatments. but just a suggestion perhaps you mite try taking supplements that help stimulate collagen growth. Therz plenty of info in the pinned section of this form.

Blaster- Tell me abt it. I was shocked! Now i understand why i looked so scary in the mirror. It was pretty shocking. Here is an outline of how my recovery went

Day1- swollen

Day2 - swollen, getting bronze

day 3- Very brown

day4 - flaking, under the flaking very red skin

day5 - most of the flaking gone, still slightly swollen and very red

day 6- all the bronzed skin has flaked off. Still red and slightly swollen

day 7- red, dry skin that is continually peeling

from there onwards, the redness has faded away and it is still pink and the peeling continues. The peeling is so bad that within a couple of hours the makeup that i have has flaked off. So it looks weird. And it was only after these 7 days that i was somewhat comfortable going in public. Dr. Cynthia Weinstein performed the procedure. I am 22, female with type V skin. I really do hope these treatments are worth it.

Blaster - how long did i t take for you scars to reappear after the treatment. And how long after each fraxel treatment did you assess the improvement on scars.

Widgie- I feel you. As if the scarring wasnt enough, trying to eliminate them can be just as emotionally trying. I just keep telling myself that at least I'm DOING something about it. Actively trying to get rid of them and that there is hope. This board here has given me a lot of encouragement. Seeing other people's success stories with fraxel. Most people here seem to report good improvement (or at the least mild!) So take heart widgie you are not alone, and you're on the road to scar elimination.

Thanks

God bless

M

It's been 8 weeks since my 4th and last treatment and I still haven't noticed any improvement. I'm really frustrated with this. I can't stand looking at these scars, thinking that it's hopeless. I had my treatments spaced 1 week, 1 week, and then 3 weeks apart, so maybe the close spacing was no good. I honestly think that it doesn't matter though. If this procedure really works, I should have seen something. Maybe, there's still a chance, but after 2 months, it's hard to remain optimistic.

Cameron I'm sorry to hear that. And yes two months is a LONG ARSED wait....but they do say full results are only noticeable 6 months after the last treatment. Not to give you false hope or anything just thort i might add that. I too would expect by this time you would have seen something. *confused* I really hop and pray things improve.

Just wanted to add that I'm dealing with pitted scarring. I'm not too sure if that box or rolling scar if its a whole category of its own. If anybody knows let me know.

Blaster after three treatments how would you rate the improvement on your shallower scars (ie. ones apart from ice pick)

Thanks

M

PS I'm paying a lot of attention to diet. Eating plent of fruits and veggies and oily fish such as salmon. Also supplementing with Colostrum/Vit C/ Zinc/ Cod liver oil. And it has definitely helped improve my complexion in the non-treated areas. I am only having my cheeks done.

I'm so grateful that Fraxel is affordable here in Australia. God knows i could never afford 1000$ a pop in the states. PHEW

M-Mite

I see these classifications of scars as labels. I perceive a very nice benefit on shallow scars. My right side of my face, which had shallow scarring looks very good. My left side has not improved as much, as I have several deeper and wider pits/scars. My sense is that Fraxel can give a pretty good result on shallow scars, but really can't help much with deeper scars.

My wife tells me she can't even see my scars. But, they are all too visible to me.

I haven't read this whole thread, so forgive me If there answers are somewhere along here.

Has anyone had positive results on surgical scarring? i.e. from mole removal or growth/cyst, etc.

What is the protocol on smoking and fraxel treatments? My brother is interested in fraxel and smokes abt 3-5 cigarrettes a day. Is it similar to undergoing a spot dermabrasion where there's to be no smoking 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after a procedure? What has your doctors advised regarding this?

I would imagine it would interfere with all sorts of the healing process. I read tht nicotine patches interfere with healing as well.

Thanks.

Has anyone heard of having an indentation in the skin or fat loss from Fraxel? I had my first Fraxel done and that night I had a fairly large indentation which made my cheek look deformed. The next morning it was much better but still slightly indented. Anybody have anything happen like that from Fraxel?

Whitepups:

How long since you had the first tx. There is a lot of swelling involved with fraxel. After the first few days when I looked in the mirror, I felt scared that there were lines where I never had lines before, and pockets of fat I didn't have before. Especially around my mouth and some at the corners of my eyes.

What it was was pockets of swelling distorting any dimples, little creases, etc. It actually looked worse before it got better. So I would think since you saw a big improvement from one day to the next that it is something like this.

It seems any facial features, a dimple, a line, a smile line, even larger pores cause some resistance to the swelling, making the surrounding skin look more swollen and the lines or flaws look more pronounced.

I specifically asked my derm, he is a laser guru in these parts, about fat loss with the fraxel laser. He said that because the fat in your skin is so deep, that the heat and light from the fraxel laser is not capable of reaching it. He had not heard of anyone complaining of this condition in any of the literature, nor had he seen it in his practice. I trust him very much, he has been honest with me and has actually dissuaded me from doing some botox treatments that he didn't feel I needed.

I have searched the internet for any references to do with fat loss and fraxel. I only found two small references and I think their comments were based on what they saw in the immediate days post op. You can also check on the FDA site. There are no complaints filed about the fraxel laser, well one, but it was from some weirdo who said it messed up his equilibrium or something.

There was another guy on this string, who said he got a few marks but that he traded 25 scars for 2 small new ones that he thought the fraxel caused, so in the end I think he was happy.

Peach Pie

Just as another note.

I went to my derm about 3 weeks after my last fraxel and complained that I thought it had caused other marks or hyperpigmentation in a couple of spots.

There were a couple of things going on here. One is that my skin is so much brighter and the tone better that small flaws I didn't see before, I was now noticing, because all the other flaws were gone.

The other was that I did have some temporary post inflammatory hyperpigmentation. Some pours looked larger and redder. He told me to wait another month or so. They have now faded considerably.

I am going back in another couple of weeks to discuss the final results. So maybe I will have more to report then.

Peachpie

Peach Pie

Great post. Can you list your treatment settings and intervals, together with what worked and what did not?

Thanks and good luck

Billy Boy: I don't know my levels. I didn't occur to me to ask and at the time it wouldn't have meant anything to me.

I know that he started light, standard protocol for him, and then went up on subsequent ones. I will ask him the next time I am there.

I did every three weeks.

I think the most important thing one can do is take close up photos of your face before your treatment in different light.

If you are feeling alarmed about something you see post treatment, you can then refer to the photos. I bet many people will see that the flaw they are noticing now, was there before, but it wasn't your primary focus when you looked in the mirror.

I know for myself, I have a hard time remembering what my skin looked like before. I didn't really have bad acne scars, just a few around my chin, but I did have large pores and otherwise kind of rough skin.

During and after these treatments, we examine our skin like we never have before. Our poor skin will never stand up to such close scrutiny.

Just my thoughts

Peachpie

Some answers to some questions -

>Blaster - how long did i t take for you scars to reappear after the treatment. And how long after each fraxel treatment did you assess the improvement on scars.

Generally my scars reappeared after 3-5 days. The full detail on the scars generally reappears after 2-3 weeks. This is due to the swelling effect.

>Blaster after three treatments how would you rate the improvement on your shallower scars (ie. ones apart from ice pick)

Some shallow scars are responding better than others. Overall I would say 20-40% improvement at this point. However I can't give a proper assessment at this time due to swelling that might still be present. However I am happy to report that there is definitely an improvement and it is noticable to me. I generally feel it is only objective to do an assessment after the 4th week post-treatment. I am planning my next treatment on the 27th of June. Since I am seeing clear progressive improvement, I am excited at the possibility of improvement after the 4th and 5th treatment.

I shall end at the 5th treatment due to time and work commitments but I am starting to believe with 7 to 8 treatments I could realistically obtain 60-80% improvement!

Fraxel seems to be the most viable option to improving scars. However if you are treating above 20mj, you have to give time for your skin to recover and collagen to develop. Hence 4-5 weeks between treatments makes sense. From my last treatment I am still red and peeling and this is the 2nd week! There is also the risk of hyperpigmentation which has to be treated via bleaching cream before the next treatment can resume.

Blaster

Whitepups:

How long since you had the first tx. There is a lot of swelling involved with fraxel. After the first few days when I looked in the mirror, I felt scared that there were lines where I never had lines before, and pockets of fat I didn't have before. Especially around my mouth and some at the corners of my eyes.

What it was was pockets of swelling distorting any dimples, little creases, etc. It actually looked worse before it got better. So I would think since you saw a big improvement from one day to the next that it is something like this.

It seems any facial features, a dimple, a line, a smile line, even larger pores cause some resistance to the swelling, making the surrounding skin look more swollen and the lines or flaws look more pronounced.

I specifically asked my derm, he is a laser guru in these parts, about fat loss with the fraxel laser. He said that because the fat in your skin is so deep, that the heat and light from the fraxel laser is not capable of reaching it. He had not heard of anyone complaining of this condition in any of the literature, nor had he seen it in his practice. I trust him very much, he has been honest with me and has actually dissuaded me from doing some botox treatments that he didn't feel I needed.

I have searched the internet for any references to do with fat loss and fraxel. I only found two small references and I think their comments were based on what they saw in the immediate days post op. You can also check on the FDA site. There are no complaints filed about the fraxel laser, well one, but it was from some weirdo who said it messed up his equilibrium or something.

There was another guy on this string, who said he got a few marks but that he traded 25 scars for 2 small new ones that he thought the fraxel caused, so in the end I think he was happy.

Peach Pie

Just as another note.

I went to my derm about 3 weeks after my last fraxel and complained that I thought it had caused other marks or hyperpigmentation in a couple of spots.

There were a couple of things going on here. One is that my skin is so much brighter and the tone better that small flaws I didn't see before, I was now noticing, because all the other flaws were gone.

The other was that I did have some temporary post inflammatory hyperpigmentation. Some pours looked larger and redder. He told me to wait another month or so. They have now faded considerably.

I am going back in another couple of weeks to discuss the final results. So maybe I will have more to report then.

Peachpie

 

Thanks peachpie, what you said makes alot of sense particularly for the most part my indentation was pretty much gone the next day. I asked my Dr. about this and he had no clue and said he never heard of such a thing. That doesn't give me much confidence in him. Having this indentation, I wasn't sure that I wanted to go back for a 2nd treatment. But maybe I'll rethink this. Thanks again.

I had my second fraxel treatment today.

I'm honestly at a loss as to how all you guys do energy settings of 20MJ and above. Mine was set at 4MJ and was as about as intense as I'd want it. And I'm pretty tough -- I have a pretty high pain threshold with my face. Even the places where all my previous lasers didn't even register on the pain scale (like my cheeks) were hurting during this treatment.

I have an idea why regarding the pain. They used to use a mild topical numbing cream under the blue dye but the patient's complained of discomfort. So they switched to a much stronger numbing cream but the problem with that was it somehow negated the other creams they use to get the blue dye off easy -- hence stronger numbing cream = less pain but also = blue dye not coming off so easy. I think it's possible that they used the weaker numbing cream on me today in lieu of the stronger stuff they used last time because last time the blue dye wouldn't hardly come off. Today, it was completely off by time I left the office with very little effort. (I think she used less dye too, so I wasn't absolutely saturated like last time.) Regardless, I can't imagine settings 5 and 6 times the ones she used on me. No wonder some people swell up like balloons, bleed and blister. Considering that, I'm glad my doctor is conservative.

The person doing my treatment today has been with this doctor for a long time and has been doing this treatment much longer than the person who did it before. I feel like she did a much better job. This time she did 4x4 passes, instead of 3x3 that my chart said was done last time. She increased the energy from 3.9 to 4. My pixels were set at 250 again, with my forhead being 125. She seemed to cover my face in a more comprehensive pattern. She was more maticulous around my eyes -- I don't have scarring there but if you're going to get fraxel, you might as well hit those pesky wrinkle prone zones as well. She was also more thorough around my mouth and chin area, the area that wasn't covered much last time and which I had pretty bad break outs for two weeks following. But just the fact that all the dye came off and we didn't have to mess with my face so much trying to get it off has my skin to rest a lot more than last time.

I'm about the same amount of red as last time but I feel my skin is much less irritated because we got all the dye off initially. Of course, there is a small amount of inflammation -- about the same as a bad sunburn. But I took some ibuprofen for it and it really seems to help (as it's an anti-inflammatory as well as pain reliever). In a couple days when I start itching from the healing process, I'll take a benedryl. I'm also laying off the medical barrier cream like I used last time, which is great for burns but really thick and heavy and clogs the pores. I am going to use a little bit of cetaphil cream and jojoba oil, which shouldn't clog the pores but keep me moisturized.

Again, a question with the energy settings: Are you guys sure it's not 20-30 KJ instead of MJ? Because 30KJ is the same as 3 MJ. And I can't imagine what would happen to me at a 20-30MJ setting -- that would be horrible.

 

 

I met with a few people today, but everyone says, "wow did you get burned". My energy of 25 mj x 8 passes x 125 density was way below your energy, but they are not giving me shots and 23 is the highest they had ever gone before.

 

 

I'm a week out from my first fraxel laser treatment and I'm wondering if I was possibly undertreated. I have some minimal scarring but basically I wanted to improve the texture of my skin since it is rough. My Dr. knew I had a reunion to go to in 3 weeks and he said I would be fine but at the same time I wanted to see some results. The numbers don't mean much to me but perhaps someone could tell me if the levels are reasonable for a first timer. I was told I was treated at 11% with 7 mj at 250 density and 4 passes. I was barely swollen, peeled a little and a little pink. It's now a week later and I feel that my skin is somewhat back to normal but I'm seeing very little noticeable results. Was I undertreated?