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Coolbreeze
You probably have already guessed this, but you asked for max depth of Fraxel. I know with 100% certainty that the Fraxel my doc has is 30 mj, because the nurse and I were looking over a manual and a book of protocols provided by Fraxel. I'm going to make assumption that 30 mj corresponds to 700 microns with "typical" skin and that depth of injury is a linear function of energy. I went to 25 today (I doubt I will go higher on final, #4). So, I am guessing that they went to 583 microns, but I know the surrounding tissue will also get heated up, so if I don't see a benefit from this and the next one, I will know Fraxel does not work for my skin.
Actually, I am expecting a nice result (as I saw some tighenting and smoothing from #2), but I have already been really disappointed by 3 excisions, mildly disappointed by punch floats, so my expectations have been lowered a bit to avoid further disappointment.
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the reply and I hope that you get good results after your treatment #3.
I asked about max. setting after reading Blaster's post that his next spot treatment would be 35 mj. That was a new high I ever read in the post 
and so wondered. It is a new treatment and does not yet have a standard, published protocol and metrics for depth of scarring versus energy setting. It would obviously vary from person to person and other factors but I would be interested in knowing any such relationship ( can be emperical or heuristics but known ) for an average patient. Some people vouch that anything below 20mj is useless while others ( including myself ) have experienced significant improvement at lower settings.
By the way, am two weeks post my last treatment and my skin looks a lot smoother than expected. Am treating some hyperpigmentation on the side and if this continues, I would be really happy and might not get any more treatments ( including other kinds ) in future. But I would hold off my judgement for 2-3 more weeks.
My Docs office uses baby wipes but I found that DAWN DISHWASHING SOAP (the foamy one) worked the best.
uote name='hey_you_25' date='May 30 2006, 05:00 PM' post='1152823']
I just had my first session of Fraxel and the blue dye won't come off. Any ideas how to take the dye of faster?
My Docs office uses baby wipes but I found that DAWN DISHWASHING SOAP (the foamy one) worked the best.
uote name='hey_you_25' date='May 30 2006, 05:00 PM' post='1152823']
I just had my first session of Fraxel and the blue dye won't come off. Any ideas how to take the dye of faster?
They had me use at the Doctors office Tea Tree Oil. I don't think it helped out all that well. But then again, there was alot of blue and I was looking to get it all off. I will try the Dawn Dish soap. Hopefully that works well.
In my doctor's office, they always use Dawn dish soap to remove blue dye which works pretty well. Apart from that, they also recommend using Neutrogena transparent facial bar which takes away any remaining dye as well as works as a soothing cleanser ( it is glycerin based )
For after care, I always avoided using creams like Aquaphore as I find them too heavy and used Cetaphil gental moisturizer which is soothing but not pore clogging.
In my doctor's office, they always use Dawn dish soap to remove blue dye which works pretty well. Apart from that, they also recommend using Neutrogena transparent facial bar which takes away any remaining dye as well as works as a soothing cleanser ( it is glycerin based )
For after care, I always avoided using creams like Aquaphore as I find them too heavy and used Cetaphil gental moisturizer which is soothing but not pore clogging.
I tried the Dawn soap and it worked well. 🙂 I will just keep on using it to take off the reaming dye. I would say I have about 98% of it off. However some small spots reamin. Now he did tell me to use Aquaphore, I went and tried it this morning and it way too greasy. I have Cetaphil so I think I might go ahead and give that a tried. Hey thanks for the info, I do appreciate it.
It feels very rough. ITs been 2 weeks since my first fraxel. It was fairly rough for most of that, almost scaly, dry and cosntantly peeling. Peeling is almost minimal still red in the face. But my skin feels soft once again. 
Scars have not reappeared yet, this is attribute to microswelling. Shall see where I'm at in another 2 weeks.
After Fraxel, how is your skin texture suppose to feel?
It feels very rough. ITs been 2 weeks since my first fraxel. It was fairly rough for most of that, almost scaly, dry and cosntantly peeling. Peeling is almost minimal still red in the face. But my skin feels soft once again. :dance: Scars have not reappeared yet, this is attribute to microswelling. Shall see where I'm at in another 2 weeks.
After Fraxel, how is your skin texture suppose to feel?
OK. I have the rough skin right now. Still redish/pinkish. I was told that it will be like that for the next few days. Haven't peeled yet. The scars are gone due to the swelling. However since the swelling is gone, I am sure the scars will return. Thats why I am not getting my hopes up after just one treatment. I had my treatment at 16mj & 125 mtz. I am taking it thats a fairly common setting for first timers. Is it to aggressive?
Coolbreeze - I reread part of a PDF doc from Reliant site titled Fractional Resurfacing in Plastic Surgery. Abtstract on page 7 mentions 900 microns (?) as max depth. Thought you might want to know. By the way, my phone calls with you were helpful in going this route. Thanks again.
I just wish the result took less time.
Hey You - My texture is rough, dry and scaly after procedure, then peels to yield pink, then bronze skin. It stays tan for some time and my skin feels amazingly smooth and tight. I wish it looked as good as it feels. Hope this helps
Coolbreeze - I reread part of a PDF doc from Reliant site titled Fractional Resurfacing in Plastic Surgery. Abtstract on page 7 mentions 900 microns (?) as max depth. Thought you might want to know. By the way, my phone calls with you were helpful in going this route. Thanks again.
I just wish the result took less time.
Hey You - My texture is rough, dry and scaly after procedure, then peels to yield pink, then bronze skin. It stays tan for some time and my skin feels amazingly smooth and tight. I wish it looked as good as it feels. Hope this helps
Great thanks for the info. I do appreciate someone putting together this site because I get lots of good info. Kudos to you. 🙂
Hey You - Depends on # passes. Total energy equals 16 mj x 125 density x # passes. If you had 6 passes that would be about where I started. In hindsight it was too low as I could have tolerated much more and I saw no improvement. I will wait 5 weeks before next treatment, as I want to assess how it worked for me.
It also depends on Skin type. If darker, be more conservative.
Hey You - Depends on # passes. Total energy equals 16 mj x 125 density x # passes. If you had 6 passes that would be about where I started. In hindsight it was too low as I could have tolerated much more and I saw no improvement. I will wait 5 weeks before next treatment, as I want to assess how it worked for me.
It also depends on Skin type. If darker, be more conservative.
What do you mean by passes? He went vertically then horizonatlly. I think he did a total of 4 passes. I am light skinned but I don't think I have sevre scarring. But then again, thats just my opinion. My next treatment is the 30th of June. So I hope I will be able to have a more detailed result by then.
Hey You
There is discussion of what constitutes a pass and total energy in the preceding 2 or 3 pages of this thread. Scarring is subjective. But, the lighter the more reason to be conservative. This device is new enough and every responds uniquely, so it is hard to know what is best. Take your docs advice.
Hey You
There is discussion of what constitutes a pass and total energy in the preceding 2 or 3 pages of this thread. Scarring is subjective. But, the lighter the more reason to be conservative. This device is new enough and every responds uniquely, so it is hard to know what is best. Take your docs advice.
Yah I am just going by what he says. I am sticking to this program because of the cost and I want the results. I don't want to mess up the program cause I may think its not going well. He would know, he's the M.D.
Hi,
It's been about a week since my third fraxel. So far still quite red, swelling has subsided. I have started peeling and I have to say the skin peels are a bit larger than they were before. Have to go heavy on the moisteuriser. I am using Total Effects by Oil of Olay, the one with sunblock SPF15. That seems to work well on my skin.
I'm not sure if I can go higher on the energy level and number of passes seeing the extent of this reaction and the fact that I did not feel presentable till the 5th day after treatment! Ice-pick scars don't show much improvement, while shallow scars and box-scars do look less shallow. Too early to tell, have to wait for post-swelling period to come to a conclusion. I am aiming for 30% improvement after the 3rd treatment.
I'm happy to hear people are seeing an improvement at low levels (below 20mJ), but again it depends on the type of scarring and severity. I have quite severe acne scarring on forehead, nose and cheeks with lots of craters on my cheeks. I have had active cystic acne since I was 15. I feel a higher energy level is required to reach the dermis and have significant change. That being said, the literature seems to say if you can take a higher level, than you will see better response. The total energy passes is important so the more the better. Ultimately your pain threshold is the limiting factor in treatment. With the right combination of anesthetics that threshold can be increased.
Blaster
Hi,
It's been about a week since my third fraxel. So far still quite red, swelling has subsided. I have started peeling and I have to say the skin peels are a bit larger than they were before. Have to go heavy on the moisteuriser. I am using Total Effects by Oil of Olay, the one with sunblock SPF15. That seems to work well on my skin.
I'm not sure if I can go higher on the energy level and number of passes seeing the extent of this reaction and the fact that I did not feel presentable till the 5th day after treatment! Ice-pick scars don't show much improvement, while shallow scars and box-scars do look less shallow. Too early to tell, have to wait for post-swelling period to come to a conclusion. I am aiming for 30% improvement after the 3rd treatment.
I'm happy to hear people are seeing an improvement at low levels (below 20mJ), but again it depends on the type of scarring and severity. I have quite severe acne scarring on forehead, nose and cheeks with lots of craters on my cheeks. I have had active cystic acne since I was 15. I feel a higher energy level is required to reach the dermis and have significant change. That being said, the literature seems to say if you can take a higher level, than you will see better response. The total energy passes is important so the more the better. Ultimately your pain threshold is the limiting factor in treatment. With the right combination of anesthetics that threshold can be increased.
Blaster
Yah I know. Well good luck with your treatment. I found when they use the laser, it hurts most around the forehead and jawline. That was very bother some to me. How about you?
Blaster
For what it's worth, I agree 100% with your thinking in the last post about intensity level. I am just 2 days out from #3.
I met with a few people today, but everyone says, "wow did you get burned". My energy of 25 mj x 8 passes x 125 density was way below your energy, but they are not giving me shots and 23 is the highest they had ever gone before.
I don't think I will get to 30% improvment after 3, but I am going to take 6 weeks off until #4 to reassess. I had wanted nurse to spot treat my left jaw after 8 passes, but she would not because I had significant pinpoint bleeding (mostly under eyes) in part becasue stupid me forgot to stop Naproxen.
My worst pain was under eyes and above lip.
Blaster - I certainly agree that treatment levels would depend on depth and severity of scarring. As long as skin can safely heal from high settings, there is no harm in using them and going deeper is definitely likely to produce more collagen. It was just a curiosity as 35 mj sounds really high setting. Also, it's nice to be able to understand strong points and limitations of the treatment. I wish you get very satisfying results. Being someone who got treatments at higher settings, it would be interesting to know the results and any peculiar things you notice. Being a new treatment, am sure doctors must be using high settings sparingly and on case by case basis but looking at the trend, as there will be more and more experience of safe outcomes, they will increasingly use it.
BillyBoy - You are welcome. well, 900 microns is certainly deep. Just to have an idea of what that means, I looked for info on skin anatomy. Epidermis thickness varies from 50 microns ( on eyelids ) to 1500 microns ( on soles ). Similarly, dermis thickness varies from 300 microns to 3000 mircons. If face is considered to have towards thinner skin, it will go well into dermis and has a potential of deeper remodelling. The variation in treatment response for a particular energy setting also might be possible 'cause of variation in facial skin anatomy which would depend not only gender and age but also genetic and ethnic traits.
I know, Fraxel tests patience at times but I hope, ultimately it would be worth waiting. After going thr' many ineffective treatments with substantial downtime, I greatly appreciate its ability to produce some results with such a less downtime and emotional trauma of prolonged healing. Going by rule of coverage, I hope, you see more improvement after your 3rd treatment.
I went to see my derm today, and he was talking about the new Fraxel they're using. Most people do not even use the numbing cream! No more injections. He said the pain level at the old Fraxel level at 8, is about the same as the new one at 25. The tip of the Fraxel is cold, so you don't get that burning. I'm planning on going back in October for another round. Has anybody else had the new Fraxel used on them?
I went to see my derm today, and he was talking about the new Fraxel they're using. Most people do not even use the numbing cream! No more injections. He said the pain level at the old Fraxel level at 8, is about the same as the new one at 25. The tip of the Fraxel is cold, so you don't get that burning. I'm planning on going back in October for another round. Has anybody else had the new Fraxel used on them?
I never even knew there was a new tip.
#1cubsfan, hey is the new fraxel a whole new machine or just a different tip?? i had the old fraxel but in a few months i may go back in get some more done. so i was just wondering if my doc had the old machine would he have to get a whole new machine or just a different tip?? thanks
#1cubsfan, hey is the new fraxel a whole new machine or just a different tip?? i had the old fraxel but in a few months i may go back in get some more done. so i was just wondering if my doc had the old machine would he have to get a whole new machine or just a different tip?? thanks
They told me it's the old machine with a new tip.
Hi Billyboy,
25mJ x 8 x 125 is really heavy considering you didn't have shots! I'm surprised you went out to meet people after that. I can hardly say I looked presentable after such a treatment. I don't feel it's unrealistic to expect a total of about 20-30% improvement after your third treatment. It's a good idea to give it at least 5-8 weeks to heal before starting on another treatment round. Bear in mind you will be red for quite a while and will likely flake for at least a week or two.
Good luck and keep us updated with your progress.
Blaster
Blaster
For what it's worth, I agree 100% with your thinking in the last post about intensity level. I am just 2 days out from #3.
I met with a few people today, but everyone says, "wow did you get burned". My energy of 25 mj x 8 passes x 125 density was way below your energy, but they are not giving me shots and 23 is the highest they had ever gone before.
I don't think I will get to 30% improvment after 3, but I am going to take 6 weeks off until #4 to reassess. I had wanted nurse to spot treat my left jaw after 8 passes, but she would not because I had significant pinpoint bleeding (mostly under eyes) in part becasue stupid me forgot to stop Naproxen.
My worst pain was under eyes and above lip.