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I was wondering if having laser hair removal on my beard could affect the wound repair in fraxel (since the hair follicle is an important source of the stem cells that migrate to heal the MTZs).
I came across this study. Basically it asks the same question without a definitive answer.
Department of Dermatology, The Cleveland Clinic Foundation, Cleveland, Ohio 44195, USA. sellhek@ccf.orgSource:Dermatologic Surgery: Official Publication For American Society For Dermatologic Surgery [Et Al.] [Dermatol Surg] 2007 Sep; Vol. 33 (9), pp. 1055-65. Publication Type:Journal Article; ReviewLanguage:EnglishJournal Information:Country of Publication: United States NLM ID: 9504371 Publication Model: Print Cited Medium: Print ISSN: 1076-0512 (Print) Subsets: MEDLINEMeSH Terms:Hair Removal*/adverse effects
Hair Removal*/methods
Laser Therapy*
Wound Healing*/physiology
Vitiligo/*physiopathology
Animals; Hair Follicle/anatomy & histology; Hair Follicle/radiation effects; Humans; PUVA Therapy; Vitiligo/drug therapy; Vitiligo/etiologyAbstract:BACKGROUND: Current laser hair removal modalities achieve a long-term but not persistent (irreversible) hair loss. OBJECTIVE: This review highlights the mechanisms of the current laser hair removal technology and explores possible side effects. METHODS: The literature is reviewed. RESULTS: The hair shaft plays a key role in the mechanisms underlying current photoepilation procedures by acting as a vector for heat transfer. Together with inherent properties of the hair growth cycle and the anatomic specifics of the follicular stem cells located in the bulge, the crucial role of the hair shaft and its lack of complete destruction with present technology are also likely culprits for the nonpersistent nature of present laser hair removal. Future persistent photoepilation may be associated with vitiligo or vitiligolike changes. Disturbances in wound repair of previously lasered sites are less likely. CONCLUSIONS: The currently available laser hair removal protocols are safe, not the least because they achieve long-term but not persistent epilation. The adverse effects of persistent laser hair removal technology possibly available in the future are potentially problematic.
Can someone enlighten me as to the differences between fraxel refine, fraxel restore, and fraxel repair? Are they all just improvements upon the fraxel product or are they used for different purposes? I assume fraxel 2 is fraxel restore? How does fraxel compare to other lasers, specifically pixel?
thanks
LISTEN TO ME! U HAVE TO USE 70 MILIJOULES AND THE "R1 R2 AND R3" TREATMENT LEVELS!!!!acne scarring is waaaaay deep. Be an informed and proactive patient. Ask your doctor specifically for 70 milijoules and the R1 treatment level (or R2 and R3) otherwise u will be fraxeling for the next 20 years!!!70mj from first fraxel? is this dangerous?
well first fraxel 2 should be at least 50 mj but all i can tell u is that u have to be brave to have any success with this.....u need to hit the highest setting as soon as possible...otherwise there is no point u will have no success.....
Can someone enlighten me as to the differences between fraxel refine, fraxel restore, and fraxel repair? Are they all just improvements upon the fraxel product or are they used for different purposes? I assume fraxel 2 is fraxel restore? How does fraxel compare to other lasers, specifically pixel?thanks
"refine" sucks and doesnt do anything for acne scars.
"restore" is fraxel 2 and used on its highest settings a few times will help ur scars dramatically
"repair" is the most brand new....it is for EXTREMELY acne scarred skin....it takes longer to heal...... Dr. Geronemus does it in new york.
Can someone enlighten me as to the differences between fraxel refine, fraxel restore, and fraxel repair? Are they all just improvements upon the fraxel product or are they used for different purposes? I assume fraxel 2 is fraxel restore? How does fraxel compare to other lasers, specifically pixel?thanks
"refine" sucks and doesnt do anything for acne scars.
"restore" is fraxel 2 and used on its highest settings a few times will help ur scars dramatically
"repair" is the most brand new....it is for EXTREMELY acne scarred skin....it takes longer to heal...... Dr. Geronemus does it in new york.
Effu,
How many treatments have you had? So you got dramatic results from these high settings? Have you posted any pictures?
Can someone enlighten me as to the differences between fraxel refine, fraxel restore, and fraxel repair? Are they all just improvements upon the fraxel product or are they used for different purposes? I assume fraxel 2 is fraxel restore? How does fraxel compare to other lasers, specifically pixel?thanks
"refine" sucks and doesnt do anything for acne scars.
"restore" is fraxel 2 and used on its highest settings a few times will help ur scars dramatically
"repair" is the most brand new....it is for EXTREMELY acne scarred skin....it takes longer to heal...... Dr. Geronemus does it in new york.
Effu,
How many treatments have you had? So you got dramatic results from these high settings? Have you posted any pictures?
i havent posted any pics, i just signed up for this site yesterday after reading all of the weak setting people are using for acne scarring....25 mj, 50 mj?!
forget it!! thats not going to cut it. Acne scarring goes DEEP. it needs to be attacked agressively, and i think alot of people are getting fraxel done and getting discouraged because they dont see results......but that are not getting it done properly.....
u need to be going into the doctor's office INFORMED. and ASK for 70 mj and ASK for the R settings.....otherwise just stay home and keep trying glycolic acid for the next 1000 years.
I have had 8 fraxels.....the first 4 were done at the setting most people are using here.....and I got discouraged also.......then i switched doctors, and she started with the highest settings, and after 4 of that alot of the red marks have disappeared, and icepicks are filling......and without makeup, i am finally starting to look like a normal girl again.......im starting to feel like one of those "other" people, the clear skinned ones.....
Can someone enlighten me as to the differences between fraxel refine, fraxel restore, and fraxel repair? Are they all just improvements upon the fraxel product or are they used for different purposes? I assume fraxel 2 is fraxel restore? How does fraxel compare to other lasers, specifically pixel?thanks
Does anyone know when the Fraxel Repair will be out and when doctors will start treating patients with this? I know there is longer down time, but is it the same kind of downtime (swelling, redness, and peeling), just longer? Can it be used on darker skin?
As you note from my sig below, I have had 7 fraxels. I paid for 8, but have not had time off from work to get # 8, which is now set for this Wed. My results have been disappointing. I have some small scarred pores/icepicks and 3 excisions scars. None of these improved much with fraxel. On the other hand, I had many shallow scars that seemed to improve, maybe by 30%. Overall, I would rate it as 20% improvement, which I am happy with, but that is after 7 sessions!
My scarring is deemed to be mild by most docs who have seen me, but it still bothers me a lot. Effu argues for being aggressive. I doubt my nurse would go to 70.
What do others think? Have you been treated as high or close to as high as Effu?
Can someone enlighten me as to the differences between fraxel refine, fraxel restore, and fraxel repair? Are they all just improvements upon the fraxel product or are they used for different purposes? I assume fraxel 2 is fraxel restore? How does fraxel compare to other lasers, specifically pixel?thanks
Does anyone know when the Fraxel Repair will be out and when doctors will start treating patients with this? I know there is longer down time, but is it the same kind of downtime (swelling, redness, and peeling), just longer? Can it be used on darker skin?
It's already available at come clinics where the doctors were "independent researchers". Its been FDA approved and is for sale. Like the other reliant systems it will take time to reach more offices and have a wide distribution.
I suspect it will become popular if its available as an add on, and less so if its a stand alone system. Simply for money reasons.
Also, the Active FX, Sciton Profractional, and other CO2 competitors have been out for a year or more. They have a small foothold in the market already. However I think the Fraxel brand is powerful and doctors who already have the re:store are likely to get a re:pair over another system (even if its slightly cheaper).
I'm sure it will be presented at the next several derm conferences around the country to help it catch on. Having patients ask for it as well is a big influence for derms.
The results from pictures I've seen approach those of a traditional facelift, so you can only imagine how incredibly popular its potential is. Unfortunately I still think its the baby boomers and their wrinkles who drive the supply and demand for fraxel. Acne scars sufferers are second class citizens . . .
You have to be careful when you research Nate. You have to understand the differences in the new and old technology. Sometimes a source refers to "laser resurfacing" when what they mean is traditional CO2 ablation.
The source may even be so old that it was written at a time when that was the only laser resurfacing there was! Ive seen plenty of Dr's websites that still arent updated to reflect the changes. Even doctors who offer fraxel havent bothered to update their resurfacing page.
The lasers that give orange peel are the older ablative lasers, like full face CO2 laser.
The older lasers burned away an entire layer of skin (just like dermabrasion but in a more controlled manner). Obviously that caused a whole host of problems like orange peel skin and hypopigmentation.
The new craze in resurfacing is "fractional photothermolysis". These are laser like Fraxel, Active FX, Profractional, Pixel, Lux1540, etc. They are not without risk and downtime, but work in a different way than traditional ablative lasers. They don't tend to cause orange peel skin or hypopigmentation. In fact they usually correct both. The downside is you have to get a series of them rather than one, because they are fractional.
The gradual remodeling of fractional lasers is what allows your skin to regenerate itself without scarring. It also accounts for the great reduction in side effects. However the efficacy is reduced.
But newer fractional lasers and parameters of use are pretty much now on par with a full face CO2 ablation. As long as you get a series of 5-6 the results are comparable with much less risk.
In fact, the results I've seen with the Fraxel Re:pair are so good they rival a traditional surgical facelift! The skin isn't as tight and there are still wrinkles. But its so much more natural looking. And avoids all the other complications of surgery.
As you note from my sig below, I have had 7 fraxels. I paid for 8, but have not had time off from work to get # 8, which is now set for this Wed. My results have been disappointing. I have some small scarred pores/icepicks and 3 excisions scars. None of these improved much with fraxel. On the other hand, I had many shallow scars that seemed to improve, maybe by 30%. Overall, I would rate it as 20% improvement, which I am happy with, but that is after 7 sessions!My scarring is deemed to be mild by most docs who have seen me, but it still bothers me a lot. Effu argues for being aggressive. I doubt my nurse would go to 70.
What do others think? Have you been treated as high or close to as high as Effu?
u wont get good results without going for the higher settings if ur nurse wont go for it, drop her and find another IMMEDIATELY. are u anywhere near new york city?
effu are you going to post pics? I would really like to see your success with the laser.
i know i know but i dont have any pics from before the fraxel.....i didnt even know about this webpage before a couple of days ago.....actually even if i had pics, i doubt i would post them anyway, id be waaaay too humiliated for anyone to see.....my skin has been a constant disgrace to me since i was 15, and ive grown quite a complex about it....
As you note from my sig below, I have had 7 fraxels. I paid for 8, but have not had time off from work to get # 8, which is now set for this Wed. My results have been disappointing. I have some small scarred pores/icepicks and 3 excisions scars. None of these improved much with fraxel. On the other hand, I had many shallow scars that seemed to improve, maybe by 30%. Overall, I would rate it as 20% improvement, which I am happy with, but that is after 7 sessions!My scarring is deemed to be mild by most docs who have seen me, but it still bothers me a lot. Effu argues for being aggressive. I doubt my nurse would go to 70.
What do others think? Have you been treated as high or close to as high as Effu?
I think anything more severe than superficial scarring would benefit from these levels of treatment.
Given the way fraxel works, however, I doubt that even these levels would have any major large effect on ice picks. I do feel like I've gained some solid improvement on a scar that was excised properly and then fraxeled.
As you note from my sig below, I have had 7 fraxels. I paid for 8, but have not had time off from work to get # 8, which is now set for this Wed. My results have been disappointing. I have some small scarred pores/icepicks and 3 excisions scars. None of these improved much with fraxel. On the other hand, I had many shallow scars that seemed to improve, maybe by 30%. Overall, I would rate it as 20% improvement, which I am happy with, but that is after 7 sessions!My scarring is deemed to be mild by most docs who have seen me, but it still bothers me a lot. Effu argues for being aggressive. I doubt my nurse would go to 70.
What do others think? Have you been treated as high or close to as high as Effu?
I think anything more severe than superficial scarring would benefit from these levels of treatment.
Given the way fraxel works, however, I doubt that even these levels would have any major large effect on ice picks. I do feel like I've gained some solid improvement on a scar that was excised properly and then fraxeled.
scientifically theres no reason why an icepick-type scar wouldnt respond the same as a rolling scar, given infinite treatments at high settings.
the only hinderence i can think of is if the scar is very fibrous with scar tissue. then it would have to be excised. i dont think fraxel can penetrate very tough scar tissue that well. maybe the re:pair can since its ablative . . .
As you note from my sig below, I have had 7 fraxels. I paid for 8, but have not had time off from work to get # 8, which is now set for this Wed. My results have been disappointing. I have some small scarred pores/icepicks and 3 excisions scars. None of these improved much with fraxel. On the other hand, I had many shallow scars that seemed to improve, maybe by 30%. Overall, I would rate it as 20% improvement, which I am happy with, but that is after 7 sessions!My scarring is deemed to be mild by most docs who have seen me, but it still bothers me a lot. Effu argues for being aggressive. I doubt my nurse would go to 70.
What do others think? Have you been treated as high or close to as high as Effu?
I think anything more severe than superficial scarring would benefit from these levels of treatment.
Given the way fraxel works, however, I doubt that even these levels would have any major large effect on ice picks. I do feel like I've gained some solid improvement on a scar that was excised properly and then fraxeled.
scientifically theres no reason why an icepick-type scar wouldnt respond the same as a rolling scar, given infinite treatments at high settings.
the only hinderence i can think of is if the scar is very fibrous with scar tissue. then it would have to be excised. i dont think fraxel can penetrate very tough scar tissue that well. maybe the re:pair can since its ablative . . .
No idea what you're trying to say here. In what situation would one have infinite, or at least, an unlimited number of treatments?
In the realm of what has been done and is practical, ice picks don't respond well to fraxel, as has been mentioned in this thread by almost every single person who had ice picks and had fraxel.
The way your scars respond to fraxel is a gradual softening at the edges of the scars, moving in towards the center. The shallower/smoother the scar, the easier it is to fill in this way.
on my shallow rolling scars i think it improved about 5% after my 3 fraxels. I was counting on 50%.u will not get ANY RESULTS unless u tolerate 70 mj/ R treatment levels...trust me!!
I'm getting very depressed and discouraged. I'm signed up to receive 4 Fraxel treatments and was ready to buy a fifth treatment, but now holding off thinking that I will only see very minimal results. I just had my second treatment and I did see a very slight improvement after my first.
My problem is that the doctor/nurse are being very conservative with the treatments because of the color of my skin. After reading effu's recommendations, that you won't get any good results unless treatment levels are at the highest settings, I'm now contemplating on whether I should purchase my fifth treatment.
The doctor has already told me that they will keep increasing the mj, but not the treatment level due to the color of my skin. My first treatment was with Fraxel 2, 40 mj, 8 eight passes, but treatment level is at 5 and they don't want to go any higher than 5. Second treatment was increased to 45 mj, level 5.
My scarring is moderate with the exception of some box scares on my chin. I know not to expect a miracle, but I was hoping to see at least a 50% improvement. I've read through many of the posts, and noticed that no one has received a treatment level of 5. The lowest I've seen is 6. If there is someone out there that has had this setting, can you please let me know how much improvement you saw. Any recommendations will help. I know everyone is different, and responds differently, but these treatments are so expensive and there just doesn't seem to be anything out there for darker skin tone. I feel like my dreams of having nice skin one day are shattered.
on my shallow rolling scars i think it improved about 5% after my 3 fraxels. I was counting on 50%.u will not get ANY RESULTS unless u tolerate 70 mj/ R treatment levels...trust me!!
I'm getting very depressed and discouraged. I'm signed up to receive 4 Fraxel treatments and was ready to buy a fifth treatment, but now holding off thinking that I will only see very minimal results. I just had my second treatment and I did see a very slight improvement after my first.
My problem is that the doctor/nurse are being very conservative with the treatments because of the color of my skin. After reading effu's recommendations, that you won't get any good results unless treatment levels are at the highest settings, I'm now contemplating on whether I should purchase my fifth treatment.
The doctor has already told me that they will keep increasing the mj, but not the treatment level due to the color of my skin. My first treatment was with Fraxel 2, 40 mj, 8 eight passes, but treatment level is at 5 and they don't want to go any higher than 5. Second treatment was increased to 45 mj, level 5.
My scarring is moderate with the exception of some box scares on my chin. I know not to expect a miracle, but I was hoping to see at least a 50% improvement. I've read through many of the posts, and noticed that no one has received a treatment level of 5. The lowest I've seen is 6. If there is someone out there that has had this setting, can you please let me know how much improvement you saw. Any recommendations will help. I know everyone is different, and responds differently, but these treatments are so expensive and there just doesn't seem to be anything out there for darker skin tone. I feel like my dreams of having nice skin one day are shattered.
Don't get discourged, at least I'm not look at these pics
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...i&img=26075
I think pics speak louder than voice, I wish some of the people here would post some pictures!!! I will post mine as soon as I get my end pictures from my doctor
You have to be careful when you research Nate. You have to understand the differences in the new and old technology. Sometimes a source refers to "laser resurfacing" when what they mean is traditional CO2 ablation.The source may even be so old that it was written at a time when that was the only laser resurfacing there was! Ive seen plenty of Dr's websites that still arent updated to reflect the changes. Even doctors who offer fraxel havent bothered to update their resurfacing page.
The lasers that give orange peel are the older ablative lasers, like full face CO2 laser.
The older lasers burned away an entire layer of skin (just like dermabrasion but in a more controlled manner). Obviously that caused a whole host of problems like orange peel skin and hypopigmentation.
The new craze in resurfacing is "fractional photothermolysis". These are laser like Fraxel, Active FX, Profractional, Pixel, Lux1540, etc. They are not without risk and downtime, but work in a different way than traditional ablative lasers. They don't tend to cause orange peel skin or hypopigmentation. In fact they usually correct both. The downside is you have to get a series of them rather than one, because they are fractional.
The gradual remodeling of fractional lasers is what allows your skin to regenerate itself without scarring. It also accounts for the great reduction in side effects. However the efficacy is reduced.
But newer fractional lasers and parameters of use are pretty much now on par with a full face CO2 ablation. As long as you get a series of 5-6 the results are comparable with much less risk.
In fact, the results I've seen with the Fraxel Re:pair are so good they rival a traditional surgical facelift! The skin isn't as tight and there are still wrinkles. But its so much more natural looking. And avoids all the other complications of surgery.
Thank you so much, I was wondering what type of laser the new max fx and actice fx was the pics look amazing.