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I finally got a test site done last Monday on a 3cm by 3cm area on my upper left cheek. The nurse put in the numbing cream for about an hour and then the doctor performed Fraxel at 70MJ treatment level 7. Not sure how many passes he did because it was over in couple of minutes.My observation:
- I hardly felt anything from the laser - may be a little warm tingle, but nothing like the pain people have described in this discussion.
I was slightly swollen after the procedure, and it was definitely pigmented therefore I could tell a square on my face. I put on the ice pack the doctor gave me and after an hour or so the swelling subsided.
Next day - I got all these black dots but no swelling at all.
Third day - I still see the black dots but it seems like the dots are getting finer and hard to notice. The pigmentation is still there.
Ok now my question is - is the energy level used good enough? The doctor did mention to me that although he'd like to go higher for my type of acne scarring, he did a moderate setting to see how my skin would pigment. Pain wise or swelling wise, I think I could probably take more than double the energy that was used on me. However, increase in Fraxel energy may not correspond one-to-one with the pain level/swelling.
The attached pics are of my scars.
The energy level is pretty high, but the density setting is a bit low.
To be honest, if I had your scars, I would do excisions before getting fraxel. It looks like you have ice picks, against which fraxel is least effective.
Thanks Zonk .. that's what I'm worried about although the doctor said that I can get 50-80% improvement, and he is one of the best doctors in town. I'd be really disappointed if I don't see much improvement after spending $4K.
Until now, I had never thought of doing something for my scars so I don't know much about other available treatments other than what I've read in this board. TCA cross seemed to be another good option but the downtime is quite long and not sure if I can afford to take that many days off from work. Let me look up excision as you suggested.
I finally got a test site done last Monday on a 3cm by 3cm area on my upper left cheek. The nurse put in the numbing cream for about an hour and then the doctor performed Fraxel at 70MJ treatment level 7. Not sure how many passes he did because it was over in couple of minutes.
My observation:
- I hardly felt anything from the laser - may be a little warm tingle, but nothing like the pain people have described in this discussion.
I was slightly swollen after the procedure, and it was definitely pigmented therefore I could tell a square on my face. I put on the ice pack the doctor gave me and after an hour or so the swelling subsided.
Next day - I got all these black dots but no swelling at all.
Third day - I still see the black dots but it seems like the dots are getting finer and hard to notice. The pigmentation is still there.
Ok now my question is - is the energy level used good enough? The doctor did mention to me that although he'd like to go higher for my type of acne scarring, he did a moderate setting to see how my skin would pigment. Pain wise or swelling wise, I think I could probably take more than double the energy that was used on me. However, increase in Fraxel energy may not correspond one-to-one with the pain level/swelling.
The attached pics are of my scars.
The energy level is pretty high, but the density setting is a bit low.
To be honest, if I had your scars, I would do excisions before getting fraxel. It looks like you have ice picks, against which fraxel is least effective.
Thanks Zonk .. that's what I'm worried about although the doctor said that I can get 50-80% improvement, and he is one of the best doctors in town. I'd be really disappointed if I don't see much improvement after spending $4K.Until now, I had never thought of doing something for my scars so I don't know much about other available treatments other than what I've read in this board. TCA cross seemed to be another good option but the downtime is quite long and not sure if I can afford to take that many days off from work. Let me look up excision as you suggested.
from my experience the downtime for TCA cross was about the same as fraxel, though i didn't have any actual 'downtime' since i could wear makeup over the areas i did.
i do agree with zonk that you'd do better with excision.
and i can't believe any doctor would in good faith tell someone 50-80%! most doctors give a lower estimation...whether that's because they're protecting themselves or just being conservative in their guess. i mean, 80% is huge.
best of luck with whatever your decide!
jayhawk, it just occurred to me to ask you if your test area was on your cheek or cheekbone -- the areas that hurt most are over bone...like the bridge of your nose, upper lip (where the bone is), and forehead. i get numbing cream as well as injections of some nerve inhibitor across my eyebrows (that numbs most of the forehead) as well as inside my upper lip (that numbs that area plus my nose/inner cheeks).
It was more like in between the upper left cheek bone and left temple.
One thing - after what Zonk told me last night, I looked at the 'excision' and it seemed like most of them got their big and deep ice-picks done .. none of my icepicks are more than 1mm diameter or depth. Most of them are more like shallow box scars.
Now ... as for my doctor, he's very honest and he seems to be very experienced with Fraxel. I had told him what my expectations were and what I had heard about Fraxel, and after examining my skin - he flat out said that its going to be anywhere from 50% to 80% improvement. I even contacted another member from this board who saw the same doctor and he spoke highly of him. He said he probably got about 35% improvement.
Since my second test site is not until end of January I was thinking maybe I should try TCA cross on some of my deep ice-pick scars - couple of on the temples, couple on both cheeks.
How is your progress so far from Fraxel ... what kind of scars do you have?
jayhawk, it just occurred to me to ask you if your test area was on your cheek or cheekbone -- the areas that hurt most are over bone...like the bridge of your nose, upper lip (where the bone is), and forehead. i get numbing cream as well as injections of some nerve inhibitor across my eyebrows (that numbs most of the forehead) as well as inside my upper lip (that numbs that area plus my nose/inner cheeks).
It was more like in between the upper left cheek bone and left temple.One thing - after what Zonk told me last night, I looked at the 'excision' and it seemed like most of them got their big and deep ice-picks done .. none of my icepicks are more than 1mm diameter or depth. Most of them are more like shallow box scars.
Now ... as for my doctor, he's very honest and he seems to be very experienced with Fraxel. I had told him what my expectations were and what I had heard about Fraxel, and after examining my skin - he flat out said that its going to be anywhere from 50% to 80% improvement. I even contacted another member from this board who saw the same doctor and he spoke highly of him. He said he probably got about 35% improvement.
Since my second test site is not until end of January I was thinking maybe I should try TCA cross on some of my deep ice-pick scars - couple of on the temples, couple on both cheeks.
How is your progress so far from Fraxel ... what kind of scars do you have?
jayhawk, it just occurred to me to ask you if your test area was on your cheek or cheekbone -- the areas that hurt most are over bone...like the bridge of your nose, upper lip (where the bone is), and forehead. i get numbing cream as well as injections of some nerve inhibitor across my eyebrows (that numbs most of the forehead) as well as inside my upper lip (that numbs that area plus my nose/inner cheeks).
anyway you can post pics? fraxel is best for rolling scars. if you have shallow rolling scars, i think 50-80% is reasonable. if you have other types of scarring, i wouldn't bet on anything over 50%
That is a big improvement. The scars in the before picture are deep. However, if I were her, I would get more treatments.
what percentage would everyone say for this person?
what percentage would everyone say for this person?
Hard to tell, because the lighting is different.
first picture is more natural and the second picture, the light
is so bright that it is unclear to judge.
i think 40% improvement.
on my shallow rolling scars i think it improved about 5% after my 3 fraxels. I was counting on 50%.How long has it been since your last fraxel? The bulk of my improvement came 3-4 months after my 6th session.
3 sessions is the bare, bare minimum.
zonk that's really encouraging to me that you got so much improvement then...i'm just over three weeks after my last one (fifth) and am getting so impatient! 😉
my scars have definitely changed a lot, though i wish i could afford more sessions both time-wise and money-wise...
and apologies to everyone that i haven't posted pictures. i wish i had them! the place where i went had a roll of film that developed badly and OF COURSE my pictures were on that one. i am contemplating taking photos now and seeing what the change is over the next few months.
is anyone who has finished fraxel using any topicals to keep improving their skin? i'm thinking of going back on green cream and/or a BHA and/or mandelic acid. i'm assuming they won't have any impact (negative) on collagen growth but i need to investigate that a little more...
what percentage would everyone say for this person?
Well, not too many responses. I hope everyone looked at the pics and formed an opinion as to percent improvement. I'd say its an 80% improvement.
I could see the patient might say its far less, like 40 percent improvement. Some of the big scars are still there with the same outline, but reduced in depth and sharpness.
Therefore it would seem like the same scars are still visible. Especially since the change is gradual (six months after last treatment).
And since the patient is used to looking at their skin a few inches from a mirror, they can't appreciate the depth/sharpness improvement as much. --They're still seeing the same scars that bother them (which tend to be the biggest and deepest).
Not to mention the emotional factor of the financial cost and the hope for near perfect skin. But being left needing more expensive treatments, even if the treatments are working.
what percentage would everyone say for this person?Well, not too many responses. I hope everyone looked at the pics and formed an opinion as to percent improvement. I'd say its an 80% improvement.
I could see the patient might say its far less, like 40 percent improvement. Some of the big scars are still there with the same outline, but reduced in depth and sharpness.
Therefore it would seem like the same scars are still visible. Especially since the change is gradual (six months after last treatment).
And since the patient is used to looking at their skin a few inches from a mirror, they can't appreciate the depth/sharpness improvement as much. --They're still seeing the same scars that bother them (which tend to be the biggest and deepest).
Not to mention the emotional factor of the financial cost and the hope for near perfect skin. But being left needing more expensive treatments, even if the treatments are working.
just my opinion and to show i guess that everyone views things differently, i would actually say it's a 50-60% improvement...i don't see it as close as 20% more improvement to being scar-free...
what percentage would everyone say for this person?Well, not too many responses. I hope everyone looked at the pics and formed an opinion as to percent improvement. I'd say its an 80% improvement.
I could see the patient might say its far less, like 40 percent improvement. Some of the big scars are still there with the same outline, but reduced in depth and sharpness.
Therefore it would seem like the same scars are still visible. Especially since the change is gradual (six months after last treatment).
And since the patient is used to looking at their skin a few inches from a mirror, they can't appreciate the depth/sharpness improvement as much. --They're still seeing the same scars that bother them (which tend to be the biggest and deepest).
Not to mention the emotional factor of the financial cost and the hope for near perfect skin. But being left needing more expensive treatments, even if the treatments are working.
just my opinion and to show i guess that everyone views things differently, i would actually say it's a 50-60% improvement...i don't see it as close as 20% more improvement to being scar-free...
seems to be a great improvement on the (OK, Good, Great, Dramatic) scale, so I would say closer to 80% IMO
I HAVE HAD 8 MAJOR FRAXELS and i have to help u guys so i just became a member tonight so i could post this.
I had severe cystic acne starting at 15 years old until 19. Then I had 3 courses of high dose Accutane. After the third course, the cysts cleared. Accutane is the only drug that can cure cystic acne. It has to be a high dose though.
After skin cleared, i was left with dark red marks completely covering my pale white skin, along with icepicks all over my cheeks. For the last 14 years i have done months of glycolic acid peels, and alpha hydroxy nonsense, then 2 Dermabrasions, 2 Co2s, 10 pulse dye lasers, and lastly 8 fraxel 2 lasers and i am finally getting results and starting to feel like a normal looking girl.
Bottom Line: Accutane is the ONLY cure for bad acne. worth the risks. but u need a dermatologist who will give u a high dose and if the first and second courses dont work, the third one will:)
Pulse Dye laser DOESNT WORK FOR RED MARKS OR ANYTHING ELSE.
CO2 DOESNT WORK FOR ACNE SCARS
DERMABRASION WORKS.....but u need a FEARLESS doctor. that is the key. A doctor that will go almost too deep is a good thing. the deeper the better is ur ONLY HOPE here. they will scare u with threats of WORSE SCARRING than u already have, and talk of keloids etc. If u feel the doctor will be conservative with ur procedure, FORGET HIM AND FIND ANOTHER. preferably a crazy one who will take some chances.
FRAXEL 2 WORKS!! BUT..... U NEED AN EXTREMELY EXPERIENCED DOCTOR, and u need the highest doses possible...IF U ARE NOT WILLING TO TOLERATE 70 MILIJOULES AT 10 PASSES AND R1 TREATMENT LEVEL AND ABOVE U ARE WASTING UR MONEY.
THE "R" TREATMENT LEVELS ARE KEY. They are the highest treatment levels and the "R" stands for "restricted". They are restricted to only the most experienced doctors.
Also, about Fraxel, 3-5 treatments wont cut it for acne scars. Im going for my 9th next week. Do it every 2-3 weeks. And do at least 15 or 20. Take out a loan if u have to. dont cry about ur scars, FIX THEM.....
Zonk it looks like you are very experienced at fraxel
I've had 5 fraxel treatments so far and I'm going for my sixth next month, this time though I'm only going for a spot treatment on my cheeks. My treatments were spaced a month each and its been 3 months since my fifth treatment. This is my experience:
My skin is swollen and red for two days, I love the way my skin looks for about a week or two after each treatment but after two weeks it goes back to normal (I wonder why this happens??I thought I was going to get greater results after my fifth but i din't after three months after the fifth treatment my skin is back to how it was before I started the treatments.
My skin looks very good right after I wake up (Does anybody know why?) And my skin looks very good on certain days
Anyway eventhough I havent experienced good results I still want to go back for more I feel that if I have like 10 treatments maybe I'll be happy with the results
When I asked the doctor my treatment level she told me it was the highest she could do she mentioned that she was doing a 25(I don't not what this is) and she was doing 8 passes
Your posts have been helpful and I hope that I start seeing results as collagen builds up my doctor told me that it would take up to six months for me to see results what discurages me is tht I'm not seeing gradual improvement
I also wanted to let you know about a concealer I'm using is called the "it stick" by benefit and this is a life saver, it actually fills in your scars!!!
Zonk have you posted any pictures?? Are you planning on having more treatments???
Zonk it looks like you are very experienced at fraxelI've had 5 fraxel treatments so far and I'm going for my sixth next month, this time though I'm only going for a spot treatment on my cheeks. My treatments were spaced a month each and its been 3 months since my fifth treatment. This is my experience:
My skin is swollen and red for two days, I love the way my skin looks for about a week or two after each treatment but after two weeks it goes back to normal (I wonder why this happens??I thought I was going to get greater results after my fifth but i din't after three months after the fifth treatment my skin is back to how it was before I started the treatments.
My skin looks very good right after I wake up (Does anybody know why?) And my skin looks very good on certain days
Anyway eventhough I havent experienced good results I still want to go back for more I feel that if I have like 10 treatments maybe I'll be happy with the results
When I asked the doctor my treatment level she told me it was the highest she could do she mentioned that she was doing a 25(I don't not what this is) and she was doing 8 passes
Your posts have been helpful and I hope that I start seeing results as collagen builds up my doctor told me that it would take up to six months for me to see results what discurages me is tht I'm not seeing gradual improvement
I also wanted to let you know about a concealer I'm using is called the "it stick" by benefit and this is a life saver, it actually fills in your scars!!!
Zonk have you posted any pictures?? Are you planning on having more treatments???
LISTEN TO ME! U HAVE TO USE 70 MILIJOULES AND THE "R1 R2 AND R3" TREATMENT LEVELS!!!!acne scarring is waaaaay deep. Be an informed and proactive patient. Ask your doctor specifically for 70 milijoules and the R1 treatment level (or R2 and R3) otherwise u will be fraxeling for the next 20 years!!!
Zonk it looks like you are very experienced at fraxelI've had 5 fraxel treatments so far and I'm going for my sixth next month, this time though I'm only going for a spot treatment on my cheeks. My treatments were spaced a month each and its been 3 months since my fifth treatment. This is my experience:
My skin is swollen and red for two days, I love the way my skin looks for about a week or two after each treatment but after two weeks it goes back to normal (I wonder why this happens??I thought I was going to get greater results after my fifth but i din't after three months after the fifth treatment my skin is back to how it was before I started the treatments.
My skin looks very good right after I wake up (Does anybody know why?) And my skin looks very good on certain days
Anyway eventhough I havent experienced good results I still want to go back for more I feel that if I have like 10 treatments maybe I'll be happy with the results
When I asked the doctor my treatment level she told me it was the highest she could do she mentioned that she was doing a 25(I don't not what this is) and she was doing 8 passes
Your posts have been helpful and I hope that I start seeing results as collagen builds up my doctor told me that it would take up to six months for me to see results what discurages me is tht I'm not seeing gradual improvement
I also wanted to let you know about a concealer I'm using is called the "it stick" by benefit and this is a life saver, it actually fills in your scars!!!
Zonk have you posted any pictures?? Are you planning on having more treatments???
lita, it sounds like you are having fraxel 1 if 25 is the setting, though it can actually go to level 40 i think.
fraxel 2 is FDA approved to go deeper (1.6 mm or something, at the highest level of 70).
also, when you wake up in the morning your skin is swollen. everyone has that effect, so it's why your scars look better then.
LISTEN TO ME! U HAVE TO USE 70 MILIJOULES AND THE "R1 R2 AND R3" TREATMENT LEVELS!!!!acne scarring is waaaaay deep. Be an informed and proactive patient. Ask your doctor specifically for 70 milijoules and the R1 treatment level (or R2 and R3) otherwise u will be fraxeling for the next 20 years!!!
70mj from first fraxel? is this dangerous?