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hi i went for a fraxel2 consultation today and the nurse told me that she is going to start at 9MJ and work up to 15MJ over 5 treatments going over 4 passes maximum. Does this seem right to you? She almost laughed when i asked can she go higher and that this is extremely powerful but i have read people are going up to 70MJ.Alsoo she will not spot treat scarred areas in order to keep the skin blended in she said and avoid uneven skin tone.
I dojn't want to pay so much money to not see results have i got this wrong or smething? 9MJ to 15MJ isn't going to make much difference if 30Mj and 40MJ with 8 passes doesn't!
Oh and she still uses dye and uses anasthetic cream for fase first.
those levels sound to me like they are for a fraxel 1 (750) machine -- or else they are RIDICULOUSLY low for fraxel 2 and she doesn't know what she is talking about!
the levels actually sound like they are low for a fraxel 1 -- people were starting around 12 and working up to around 20 or higher, i believe. when i went to a doc for consult on fraxel 1 and she said she was only comfortable with level 8, i decided she was not the practitioner for me. scar improvement requires more aggressive treatment than what people are getting for wrinkles.
considering the money you'll be spending on this, i would find someone else to do it. i called and talked to about a dozen places and consulted in person with 3 before i decided who to go to. what area do you live in? maybe someone on the board could make a suggestion as to a practitioner...
Thank you blue morpho. I called her up to tell her this she was very insistent and said the pain would be literally intolerable at those levels and burn the face off. She said something about she is doing 4 passes so i times the level by 4 and that is the overall energy i'll be getting and is what the people on here are talking about? i.e. 10MJ would equal 40MJ with 4 passes. So maybe I was wrong? It's definately fraxel 2 though i waited untill they had th new machine. She hasn't heard of a a new tip that doesn't need blue dye (i think this is only out in us right now) and feels you need blue dye in order to help, even though very annoying.
This is the nearest place i can reach with fraxel. 🙁
No. The mJ (power) and Level (intensity) are preset. The number of passes then determines the total energy output and total coverage which is monitored by the machine software.
I agree with BlueMorpho, and I suggest at those levels you'd only get as much effect as a mild peel, which would be a fraction of the cost.
Check with Reliant. They publish a protocol - a matrix of mJ and levels - suggesting the range of treatment settings for different conditions. I can't recall it exactly but from memory the normal range for scars is like 35-70mJ, Levels 8-12.
hi i went for a fraxel2 consultation today and the nurse told me that she is going to start at 9MJ and work up to 15MJ over 5 treatments going over 4 passes maximum. Does this seem right to you? She almost laughed when i asked can she go higher and that this is extremely powerful but i have read people are going up to 70MJ.Alsoo she will not spot treat scarred areas in order to keep the skin blended in she said and avoid uneven skin tone.
I dojn't want to pay so much money to not see results have i got this wrong or smething? 9MJ to 15MJ isn't going to make much difference if 30Mj and 40MJ with 8 passes doesn't!
Oh and she still uses dye and uses anasthetic cream for fase first.
those levels sound to me like they are for a fraxel 1 (750) machine -- or else they are RIDICULOUSLY low for fraxel 2 and she doesn't know what she is talking about!
the levels actually sound like they are low for a fraxel 1 -- people were starting around 12 and working up to around 20 or higher, i believe. when i went to a doc for consult on fraxel 1 and she said she was only comfortable with level 8, i decided she was not the practitioner for me. scar improvement requires more aggressive treatment than what people are getting for wrinkles.
considering the money you'll be spending on this, i would find someone else to do it. i called and talked to about a dozen places and consulted in person with 3 before i decided who to go to. what area do you live in? maybe someone on the board could make a suggestion as to a practitioner...
Thank you blue morpho. I called her up to tell her this she was very insistent and said the pain would be literally intolerable at those levels and burn the face off. She said something about she is doing 4 passes so i times the level by 4 and that is the overall energy i'll be getting and is what the people on here are talking about? i.e. 10MJ would equal 40MJ with 4 passes. So maybe I was wrong? It's definately fraxel 2 though i waited untill they had th new machine. She hasn't heard of a a new tip that doesn't need blue dye (i think this is only out in us right now) and feels you need blue dye in order to help, even though very annoying.
This is the nearest place i can reach with fraxel. 🙁
10 mJ at 4 passes doesn't equal 40mJ. the higher the mJ, the deeper the laser reaches into your skin. that's why you want higher mJ for scars -- when they say the fraxel 2 laser can go to 1.4 mm, there is a graph that shows that at 70 mJ it goes to 1.359 (rounded to 1.4). at 35 it was about 1 mm i think, so at the levels she's telling you, you're not getting much.
also, like tabula rasa said, number of passes has to do with coverage and the number of times the laser is firing into your skin to create the micro-wounds.
i bet reliant would not like it at all that she said that at higher levels it would be intolerable and burn your face off -- clearly if the machine can go that high, it is meant to be used that high! and it's been FDA cleared for that, as well.
sounds to me like she treats people at low levels so they keep coming back. i'm curious what the price quote was for this...?
i really really doubt that is the SR1500, because when i asked people via phone if they had the newest fraxel, "fraxel2," etc., they would say yes but then not be able to tell me the model number or confirm settings. and some of the people you talk to really just don't know what they are talking about.
oto123, watch this webinar that tabula rasa posted above: https://reliant.webex.com/ec0507l/eventcent...siteurl=reliant
(thank you, tabula rasa!) 
it was very interesting, and had that graph i mentioned about the laser depth at various mJ settings.
(This is copied from a response to Sanjoseskin's post - just wanted as many opinions as possible.)I have had 4 Fraxel 1500 tx (40/level 10/8 passes) with what my dermatologist called "modest" visible improvements. He has now asked me to undergo a re:pair tx as part of a clinical trial for acne scars. He said he has done 15 patients so far and 14 of them have had substantial improvements. Although I have moderate scarring, it is not as severe as other people in the study so he thinks I will only need 1 tx. The study will do up to 3 tx. The biggest risk seemed to be redness that can last up to 3 months; no infections or scarring have been noted in studies thus far.
Has anyone actually had any experience with the new laser - not just speculation? My dr is in Minnesota. I spoke to him, his nurse, and the research coordinator but did not see any of the photos.
Thoughts?
well i assume you'll be wearing a professional make up job on your wedding day right? so redness isnt going to be visible anyway. i'd take the free treatments.
Ok it's been now 3 months i did have my last fraxel with a SR 1500 at 40 -8-8 pass.the result is positive on some part and other less. my big problem now is , i been for the first time on the beach after 3 months and i came back with white spots all over my face like i i did peeling in some part , i never have that before, im' a little worry. did some one experience the same after taking sun ?
Can you post a photo? It's hard to know what you are describing. Maybe it'll go away. Best to see a derm before doing anything. It could be milia recurring. Milia can form white crusts / spots, which I understand is a protein reaction. If it's milia, bathing in warm water or a mild exfoliant can help clear it.
(This is copied from a response to Sanjoseskin's post - just wanted as many opinions as possible.)I have had 4 Fraxel 1500 tx (40/level 10/8 passes) with what my dermatologist called "modest" visible improvements. He has now asked me to undergo a re:pair tx as part of a clinical trial for acne scars. He said he has done 15 patients so far and 14 of them have had substantial improvements. Although I have moderate scarring, it is not as severe as other people in the study so he thinks I will only need 1 tx. The study will do up to 3 tx. The biggest risk seemed to be redness that can last up to 3 months; no infections or scarring have been noted in studies thus far.
Has anyone actually had any experience with the new laser - not just speculation? My dr is in Minnesota. I spoke to him, his nurse, and the research coordinator but did not see any of the photos.
Thoughts?
Kate - Did I read somewhere you're getting married soon or am I mixing you up with someone else? If it's soon, then maybe just go for a medium setting. Your doc may want to be aggressive since you're only doing one treatment. The patients they show look good at one month. But then you don't want a big worry leading up to the day.
Watching the Fraxel webinars however, personally I thought the Fraxel C02 gave most improvements to wrinkles not scars, whereas the 1500 Erbium appeared to give better results on scars than wrinkles. C02 is supposedly better for tissue tightening than Erbium. It may be however that scar remodelling is a different issue. In any case, 1-3 months is early days.
Hi everyone,What do y'all pay for fraxel treatments? I've been quoted $3700 for a 4 treatment package. I'm used to paying $500 for erbium treatments which I thought was pretty pricey so this is a whole new level. I have a consult next week for the Fraxel.
Thanks,
Lucy
that sounds pretty average in terms of costs for fraxel. reliant tells practitioners that the average price is $1100 or $1200 per treatment for fraxel 2 (i forget which price -- i talked to a fraxel rep who told me this and they definitely give a specific figure when they are selling the machines, so that docs can estimate the return on their investment). practitioners/doctors, however, can charge whatever they want for it. some are higher than that and some are lower. what seems important is to find someone you trust, who has experience treating what you want them to treat (i.e., someone who has experience treating acne scars, not just wrinkles), and who also gives you a fair price that you can afford, in consideration of what your expectations are in terms of aggressiveness, etc., for that price.
rilke23 sounds like she/he got a deal. i did, as well, as i'm paying $2500 for a 5-session package (it was a special deal that i had to go to an intro seminar to get, and pay for it that day--this is HALF of what they normally charge). the other doc i considered offered $950 per treatment for the first 3 and $750 per treatment for any over three.
what will this place charge you for an additional treatment if you want more than 4?
5 treatments is pretty standard...
Ummmm, so...yeah...I am back in action. It's been awhile...but I am here! 
Rather than slaving myself throughout the 200 and some odd old posts on the damn thing, I wanted to get a few opinions on the "updated" Fraxel Laser. I was a part of the trial group with Dr. Fitz in La Jolla and I just scheduled another series of treatments with him starting August 6th. A little nervous considering the posts I've seen about the pain, swelling, and "ice packs???" Didn't have to go through all that with my 6 treatments about 2-3 years ago. Fill me in...but mind you, I don't have pics...please don't ask...sensitive subject.
Top three things I want to hear about:
1. post op - what are some of the recovery times faced and how was the pain?
2. improvements - I of all people know that patience is key with this laser but did you see any surface inprovements...like the way a peel improves your skin texture? Since it seems more "ablative" now, I'm imagining some superficial improvements too...correct me if I am wrong...I don't want to go into this assuming anything!
3. any other facts or comments that are interesting...I am down to hear about them.
Thanks! I am excited for some juicy info!
does anyone have a suggestion for aftercare that would prevent peeling around the mouth from happening too quickly? i realize this may be impossible to prevent. both times i have done fraxel now, the skin around my mouth peels first, and then seems to re-scab in a kind of scaly-looking way. i obviously have to open my mouth to eat and talk, so i'm not sure what to do about this 
any particularly good moisturizers, oils, etc?
does anyone else experience this, or use anything to help peel flaky/scaly skin that appears after you peel once?
does anyone have a suggestion for aftercare that would prevent peeling around the mouth from happening too quickly? i realize this may be impossible to prevent. both times i have done fraxel now, the skin around my mouth peels first, and then seems to re-scab in a kind of scaly-looking way. i obviously have to open my mouth to eat and talk, so i'm not sure what to do about this 😉any particularly good moisturizers, oils, etc?
does anyone else experience this, or use anything to help peel flaky/scaly skin that appears after you peel once?
yah that has happened to chin/cheek/mouth areas for me too. I would try just drinking smoothies for a day or so and try not to talk??
Im just waiting for those parts to be finished rescabbing, and flake off ^^ As well, as the few pimples and whiteheads I seem to have gotten to leave.
the one thing that's bothering me is that parts of my face, esp. my cheeks (most sensitive part), is soo itchy. Even parts that are not scabbed over. It's so hard to not scratch it. Anyone else feeling this?
does anyone have a suggestion for aftercare that would prevent peeling around the mouth from happening too quickly? i realize this may be impossible to prevent. both times i have done fraxel now, the skin around my mouth peels first, and then seems to re-scab in a kind of scaly-looking way. i obviously have to open my mouth to eat and talk, so i'm not sure what to do about this 😉any particularly good moisturizers, oils, etc?
does anyone else experience this, or use anything to help peel flaky/scaly skin that appears after you peel once?
yah that has happened to chin/cheek/mouth areas for me too. I would try just drinking smoothies for a day or so and try not to talk??
Im just waiting for those parts to be finished rescabbing, and flake off ^^ As well, as the few pimples and whiteheads I seem to have gotten to leave.
the one thing that's bothering me is that parts of my face, esp. my cheeks (most sensitive part), is soo itchy. Even parts that are not scabbed over. It's so hard to not scratch it. Anyone else feeling this?
I only get itchy when my face is flaking, also my jaw flakes alot more than any other part of my face.. the skins falls all and then it flakes again... i just make sure that I puter moisturiser on it more frequently.
(I have had 3 X fraxel 2 sessions @ 40MJ by 8 passes.. my next is in 3 weeks)
Have any of you used makeup after a Fraxel session? If so, could you tell us your experience with it? Thanks!
I use Estee Lauder Double Wear, and it works great (on top of sunblock spf 55). When you develop the "crusting" it makes the pigment hold even better than with normal-smooth skin. It looks a little "masky" if you look up-close, so I try to stay away at least 2 feet away from people for the first 3-4 days, haha
Just wanted let everyone know. I've broken out for my three first fraxels while I was on biafine. My derm told me it was probably the biafine, so I went off of it after my fourth fraxel. I haven't broken out at all.
As a caveat, biafine has helped a lot of people on here, so I'm guessing it's just different for different people. Just wanted everyone to be aware of my experience.
Have any of you used makeup after a Fraxel session? If so, could you tell us your experience with it? Thanks!I use Estee Lauder Double Wear, and it works great (on top of sunblock spf 55). When you develop the "crusting" it makes the pigment hold even better than with normal-smooth skin. It looks a little "masky" if you look up-close, so I try to stay away at least 2 feet away from people for the first 3-4 days, haha
maggie -- so you wore it RIGHT after Fraxel? Didn't it look funny with all that bronzing, i.e. was makeup able to cover it all up?
does anyone have a suggestion for aftercare that would prevent peeling around the mouth from happening too quickly? i realize this may be impossible to prevent. both times i have done fraxel now, the skin around my mouth peels first, and then seems to re-scab in a kind of scaly-looking way. i obviously have to open my mouth to eat and talk, so i'm not sure what to do about this 😉any particularly good moisturizers, oils, etc?
does anyone else experience this, or use anything to help peel flaky/scaly skin that appears after you peel once?
yah that has happened to chin/cheek/mouth areas for me too. I would try just drinking smoothies for a day or so and try not to talk??
Im just waiting for those parts to be finished rescabbing, and flake off ^^ As well, as the few pimples and whiteheads I seem to have gotten to leave.
the one thing that's bothering me is that parts of my face, esp. my cheeks (most sensitive part), is soo itchy. Even parts that are not scabbed over. It's so hard to not scratch it. Anyone else feeling this?
thanks blue girl 🙂
i ended up using a shea butter/beeswax/almond oil mix that a friend of mine made, which was the only thing that would keep my lips from being crazy dry all winter long. this is definitely helping but i'm still really flaky/dry.
i only get itching when i'm peeling, just of the parts of my face that haven't peeled yet. it's tolerable for me, so it doesn't bother me unless i think about it, but moisturizing definitely helps the itching.
Have any of you used makeup after a Fraxel session? If so, could you tell us your experience with it? Thanks!I use Estee Lauder Double Wear, and it works great (on top of sunblock spf 55). When you develop the "crusting" it makes the pigment hold even better than with normal-smooth skin. It looks a little "masky" if you look up-close, so I try to stay away at least 2 feet away from people for the first 3-4 days, haha
maggie -- so you wore it RIGHT after Fraxel? Didn't it look funny with all that bronzing, i.e. was makeup able to cover it all up?
Yes, I used it about 5 hours after fraxel and it covers it all quite well. Also, I just tried a sample the derm gave me called Eucerin Redness Reducing Concealer. Its green and you use it before the make up base (I think is pretty cheap, since they sell the Eucerin line on any pharmacy). It covers the red perfectly, although I felt a little "geisha-like" since I'm olive skinned, but if your skin is lighter I think it will work even better
thanks bluemorpho/tabula! as i was browsing i found this
have had four Fraxel Laser treatments for the face. I have had a number of other treatments before including dermabrasion, fillers (temporary), chemical peels, Coolbeam and scar "improving" lotions. I was disappointed with all of them, though they had some affect (except the lotion). Fraxel is probably the best treatment I have had and cost about a $1000 per treatment. But I have about a 40% improvement in my scars which are of the "rolling" type - moderate in severity. And my skin tone is much better as well. If I get one more treatment I hope to get up to a 50% improvement but I sense there are diminishing returns and they don't recommend more than 6. So it is likely there is not much affect after about 5 treatments. I would like to see 80 to 90% improvement but I don't think that exist with products on the market and I don't think Fraxel alone will be able to do that.
To get the best results from the Fraxel laser you have to use it at a high setting - at least above 10 and preferably 15 if you can stand the pain. Most of my treatments were done at around 12 or so. There is about a three to four day down time, although you can go out in public within a day or two as long as you are not seeing people you know.
it was in the scar treatment review section. i assume this is for fraxel one then. its strange because i purposefully enquired as to when they were receiving the fraxel 2 machine and they told me 2 months and offered me fraxel 1 untill then but as money was an issue i declined and waited for a consultaion in 2 months for fraxel 2 which turned into a 4 month wait. Without saying much to them they already told me they had patients reporting of the difference between machines, less painful though too early to tell the results they said. They really weren't pushing this onto me and ive been to many clincis and these did seem very genuine. I understand they want to proceed with caution but why are theyso reluctant to go above these settings. I really can not go anywhere else there is no where nearer and money is probelm for me. BUt I want this treatment. I think I will have to accept these settings as this is my only option 
and save up for more in the furture.
What i'd really really like to know, because it's fairly annoying, is why pretty much NOBODY is posting progress pictures? All these people posting to this thread and no recent pictures? Wtf?
I've posted several times about this already. People who are getting Fraxel are, by definition, embarrassed by the way their face looks. To expect them to take and post pictures of themselves on the internet is asking a little much.
Also, posting like you're entitled to see pictures of people's progress probably does not make anyone more likely to do so...
Either way, there are plenty of recent pictures of before and afters floating around on the internet.
I sense there are diminishing returns and they don't recommend more than 6. So it is likely there is not much affect after about 5
So this is actually an important point. I don't know about the diminishing returns, because very few people have had more than 5 or 6.
However, it is not true that they don't recommend more than 6. What they don't recommend is more than 6 consecutively. If you want to do more, you should wait 6-12 months for another 4-6 sessions. I'm not sure if there is a biological reason for this or if it's more of a "wait and see how your scars fill in before doing anymore"-type thinking.
What i'd really really like to know, because it's fairly annoying, is why pretty much NOBODY is posting progress pictures? All these people posting to this thread and no recent pictures? Wtf?
it takes time to see the results -- no one wants to (and i don't want anyone to) see pictures of swelling, scabbing, etc., during treatment recovery time, and i'm not going to post pictures until i see the difference i want to see AFTER I'M DONE MY TREATMENTS.
be patient! you can also do an online search and look at pictures other people have posted.