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fraxel laser

 
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(@semenskinregimen)

Posted : 05/17/2007 10:43 pm

there was a study/finding in the new today regarding mice stem cells regenerating hair and other skin structures in the middle of a wound. oddly the wound had to be large to a certain extent for the regeneration to happen. they said its at least five years before anything might come of it. probably many more.

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(@tabula_rasa)

Posted : 05/17/2007 11:02 pm

 

TCBC... earlier you said Fraxel creates 'regeneration'. What does this actually mean? Is there evidence that Fraxel can generate new normal skin appendages when scars are ablated, or just more scar collagen?

 

Has anyone seen any histology of Fraxel treatment on scars? Or for that matter any formal studies for scars? The Fraxel papers I have seen are for pigmentation, melasma etc. not scars.

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(@tenntenn)

Posted : 05/17/2007 11:04 pm

Does anyone know if it would be advisable to do both Fraxel and Titan at the same time? I want to tighten my skin - or does Fraxel does that as well?

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(@tabula_rasa)

Posted : 05/17/2007 11:12 pm

Seems like sooooo many people here have either started Fraxel or are about to start.

 

Please folks, if you can, post some pics? :pray:

 

Not every week, but maybe at 0, 3, 6, 12 months with accurate lighting would be so helpful to others, as well as yourself.

 

I am beginning Fraxel in June and I will.

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(@christpunchers)

Posted : 05/18/2007 12:54 am

how about fraxel for pigment issues like hyper pigmentation and melasma how much u think would clear up with 5 treatments 10,20,30 percent? , and i am dark skinned also.

please answer my response thnx.

i read a study that showed 95 percent clearance of melasma.

fraxel was made for melasma. thats what it does best. look at the slideshow on www.reliant-tech.com

 

what about redness due to acne or red marks.

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(@moonbase)

Posted : 05/18/2007 7:56 am

what about redness due to acne or red marks.

I would also like to know if fraxel will help with my red marks from old acne...

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(@semenskinregimen)

Posted : 05/18/2007 10:31 am

TCBC... earlier you said Fraxel creates 'regeneration'. What does this actually mean? Is there evidence that Fraxel can generate new normal skin appendages when scars are ablated, or just more scar collagen?

Has anyone seen any histology of Fraxel treatment on scars? Or for that matter any formal studies for scars? The Fraxel papers I have seen are for pigmentation, melasma etc. not scars.

healing can take place in a few different ways. either regeneration or repair. mammals have limited capacity for regeneration. for instance some salamanders regenerate limbs (including muscle, nerve, blood vessels) and regain full functionality. however humans can only regenerate liver and rib tissue (if the periosteum is left intact).

we can also regenerate from a paper cut. because it is so small a paper cut heals by the skin first approximating the wound edges (pulling together) then produces new epithelial cells from the nearby healthy ones. same principle as fraxel.

in repair, there is some sort of scar tissue being laid down. there is healing (repair) by primary, secondary, and delayed primary intention. all of which leave some scar tissue.

fraxel doesnt create new scar tissue unless a macrowound is created. the microwounds (even with fraxel re:pair) heal by regeneration. in the cases of re:fine and re:store the healing takes place without an actual true wound, the cells get heated and denature and are replaced.

in the re:pair there is an actual open wound which is microscopic. the top layer of skin (epidermis) invaginates into the wound and approximates the edges in the process. from there healing is pretty much just like from other fraxels.

this is why there is some skin loss/tightening from the re:pair. its like if you were to pinch the skin on the back of your hand with your thumb and first two fingers. pinch the skin up around the index finger and then pull it out to create a skin flap. that's similar to what is happening at the microscopic level with fraxel re:pair.

i don't think ive seen histology for acne scars. but i did see it for stretch marks. at the cellular level the process was the same. except that the stretch marks had considerable gaps in the collagen network before treatment.

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(@markrogers83)

Posted : 05/18/2007 3:18 pm

Hmm, I'm not convinced that this theory is entirely true. I have been having Fraxel to treat stretch marks on my abdomen and upper arms following rapid weight gain in my teens. So far, I have had about 4 treatments on each area and the results have been mixed.

 

I think when you make a hole in a "sea" of scar tissue, that hole is filled up again with scar tissue. However, when you make a hole on the boundary between normal tissue and scar tissue, the normal tissue propogates forward to fill in the hole and thereby reduces the dimensions of the scar. This is consistent with the studies on striae which show that fraxel is gradually able to reduce their width and length by a SMALL AMOUNT after SEVERAL treatments.

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(@semenskinregimen)

Posted : 05/18/2007 5:24 pm

From "The Human Face" BBC doc with John Cleese:

 

Wrinkles develop because there are two major layers of the skin. The upper, the epidermis, is self-renewing. The lower, the dermis, is the base on which the epidermis sits. These two layers are tied together with collagen, a naturally occurring elastic that allows both layers to stretch and move with the muscles and then snap into shape. When the collagen breaks down, wrinkles start to form.

 

Skin is like a sieve. The density of the mesh is altered by melanin, which controls the amount of light permitted to filter through.

 

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(@tabula_rasa)

Posted : 05/18/2007 6:31 pm

Hmm, I'm not convinced that this theory is entirely true. I have been having Fraxel to treat stretch marks on my abdomen and upper arms following rapid weight gain in my teens. So far, I have had about 4 treatments on each area and the results have been mixed.

I think when you make a hole in a "sea" of scar tissue, that hole is filled up again with scar tissue. However, when you make a hole on the boundary between normal tissue and scar tissue, the normal tissue propogates forward to fill in the hole and thereby reduces the dimensions of the scar. This is consistent with the studies on striae which show that fraxel is gradually able to reduce their width and length by a SMALL AMOUNT after SEVERAL treatments.

Yes, this is where my understanding is at too.

Seems the weak point in all these treatments is not being able to precisely target scar tissue - fraxel takes a bit of a 'scatter gun' approach, C02 is like napalm. Imagine if the dermis could be scanned for dense collagen bundles and its margins then targetted by pin point laser.

It's interesting how most talk is about simply trying to produce collagen, but then that is essentially what a scar is - Type I collagen, but without the normal auxiliary bits. And atrophic scars are usually depressed not because there is not enough collagen, but because they are nearly entirely collagen which is more compact.

It is often suggested that under controlled wounding 'disorganised' scar collagen can be relaid in a more organised fashion to appear smoother and resemble normal skin. And possible that excess collagen could be produced to thicken atrophic scar areas. But I do not understand what would promote this excess, rather than simply replacing what collagen was destroyed, or less.

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(@faith82)

Posted : 05/18/2007 7:42 pm

i have question. If you go out in the sun after how long would the pigment form?? Right away or after a few days??

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(@christpunchers)

Posted : 05/18/2007 9:32 pm

how about fraxel for pigment issues like hyper pigmentation and melasma how much u think would clear up with 5 treatments 10,20,30 percent? , and i am dark skinned also.

please answer my response thnx.

i read a study that showed 95 percent clearance of melasma.

fraxel was made for melasma. thats what it does best. look at the slideshow on www.reliant-tech.com

 

what about redness due to acne or red marks.

 

heh seems like nobody wants to respond to this, either cuz they never had problems with red marks or fraxel doesnt really help the problem. oh well.

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(@semenskinregimen)

Posted : 05/18/2007 10:31 pm

fraxel helps with red marks. probably as much or more than scars. there are other non ablative laser though like v-beam that are MUCH cheaper. like 150 a pop.

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(@christpunchers)

Posted : 05/18/2007 10:34 pm

fraxel helps with red marks. probably as much or more than scars. there are other non ablative laser though like v-beam that are MUCH cheaper. like 150 a pop.

Thanks for the response. I just havent seen any photos of anybody that had their red marks totally eliminated by fraxel to justify trying the fraxel as it is expensive and i could risk damaging my skin where its great as it is .only jeff from the vbeam thread in the red marks section seem to have great results from using lasers.

anyhow im going to vbeam in a month, ill see what happens in a weeks following. eventually i will fraxel sometime later on this year because i want to get rid of some of the box scars that i have. hopefully if the vbeams dont take away the red marks completely, fraxel will take care of the rest.

another thing that makes thing seem hopeless is what if my skin doesnt heal well enough? i mean when i go out in the sun, even with gobs and gobs of sunscreen on, my red marks still become irritated after awhile and STAY red for the whole night until i wake up the next day. how is THAT supposed to be fixed with these lasers? I feel pretty hopeless right now, like ill never be one of those people with naturally good skin that can take a beating from the weather and the odd pimple and come out with no evidence of anything ever happening to them.

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(@semenskinregimen)

Posted : 05/18/2007 10:44 pm

maybe you need to use a paba free or otherwise hypoallergenic sun block. sometimes we spend a lot of money on moisturizers and don't think about what sunscreen we are using.

 

no harm in trying v-beam first. there is one set of pics that comes to mind, of a kid who had depressed red scars on his face. its in the fraxel slide show www.reliant-tech.com. he looks like he was 15 and the scars fresh.

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(@christpunchers)

Posted : 05/18/2007 11:05 pm

well my marks are just naturally irritated by the sun, even from the heat.

 

my scars and marks arent that fresh. some have been around for ages, other, more than 9 months.

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(@mag)

Posted : 05/19/2007 3:17 pm

Zonk - what does the texture of your skin look like after Fraxel. I've had 3 tx so far and I think the texture is slightly grainy. Has anybody noticed that as well?

 

Tabs - thanks for that info, ill touch base with them.. my next frax is on the 13th of next month.....

 

i have a feeling the time between is going to fly by.

 

Unfortunatly for 25 of the time ill be red!

 

The treatment level is important as well. I have very superficial scarring, and you can see that my derm started out very aggressively w/ the MJ settings and less aggressively on the treatment level. If your scars are shallow, you may not need 40 MJ, but make sure the treatment level is at least 8. At least one of the two should be aggressive, in my opinion.

 

it's been 4 days post first fraxel.

 

without having to read over 200 pages i would like to find out when does the sandpaper texture feeling go away? i just had my forehead done with some swelling and redness but nothing i couldn't handle. and went to work the next day.

 

this texture is driving crazy.

 

anybody please help

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(@zonk)

Posted : 05/19/2007 4:10 pm

Zonk - what does the texture of your skin look like after Fraxel. I've had 3 tx so far and I think the texture is slightly grainy. Has anybody noticed that as well?

 

Tabs - thanks for that info, ill touch base with them.. my next frax is on the 13th of next month.....

i have a feeling the time between is going to fly by.

Unfortunatly for 25 of the time ill be red!

The treatment level is important as well. I have very superficial scarring, and you can see that my derm started out very aggressively w/ the MJ settings and less aggressively on the treatment level. If your scars are shallow, you may not need 40 MJ, but make sure the treatment level is at least 8. At least one of the two should be aggressive, in my opinion.

 

it's been 4 days post first fraxel.

without having to read over 200 pages i would like to find out when does the sandpaper texture feeling go away? i just had my forehead done with some swelling and redness but nothing i couldn't handle. and went to work the next day.

this texture is driving crazy.

anybody please help

about a week.

 

 

Mine has been fine. After I peel, my skin feels really soft.

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(@arcticmonkey)

Posted : 05/19/2007 4:41 pm

Is it just me or does fraxel sound like a waste of time when dealing with acctual acne scarring?!?!?! It doesn't seem to be doing jack shit for anyones pitted scarring.

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(@tamarabb)

Posted : 05/19/2007 4:56 pm

I am just curious... What is the most number of fraxel treatments you have heard of anyone getting?

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(@tabula_rasa)

Posted : 05/19/2007 5:42 pm

Zonk - what does the texture of your skin look like after Fraxel. I've had 3 tx so far and I think the texture is slightly grainy. Has anybody noticed that as well?

Hi Mag.

Has this developed progressively, or are you seeing it only now? How long since your last Fraxel? Maybe you can post your skin type and treatment settings in your signature.

Shymisty's skin seemed to get more grainy and less pigment to me.... http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...i&img=21755

I'm not sure if this lasted.

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(@zonk)

Posted : 05/19/2007 5:54 pm

Is it just me or does fraxel sound like a waste of time when dealing with acctual acne scarring?!?!?! It doesn't seem to be doing jack shit for anyones pitted scarring.

Are you talking specifically about pitted/ice pick scarring or all acne scarring?

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(@cb07)

Posted : 05/19/2007 5:56 pm

zonk

 

Has fraxel helped your scars?

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(@zonk)

Posted : 05/19/2007 5:56 pm

I am just curious... What is the most number of fraxel treatments you have heard of anyone getting?

billyboy has done the most of anyone i've heard of.

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(@tabula_rasa)

Posted : 05/19/2007 5:57 pm

Is it just me or does fraxel sound like a waste of time when dealing with acctual acne scarring?!?!?! It doesn't seem to be doing jack shit for anyones pitted scarring.

Yeah. I think if you went only on people's results here to date you'd have to say it's generally been a failure on scars. In the beginning many of those were on the old Fraxel at lower settings. Does this make a significant difference? I dunno. While not spectacular Floridaguy and AnniefromMiami definitely showed improvement - I would say 25-30%. More recently there have been a reasonable number of positive verbal comments but some could be speaking too soon (microswelling) and no photos to back them up. True results aren't seen for 6 months. My derm says he has seen 40-50% improvement by his colleagues using Fraxel (he doesn't do Fraxel himself and has no reason to lie). Then there are the photos published by Reliant. Some show excellent improvement, but can we believe these are real or consistent?

I agree there seems a big discrepancy between claims of 50% improvement and the results people have shown here.

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