I'm still swollen today, usually I'm normal by now (Look like an overweight girl). What's weird is that I keep having lots of yellow liquid coming out of my face. Not sure what they are. I know it happens whenever my face was hot and that the setting was higher. I remembered someone else had the same experience earlier back. Could someone tell me what it is.

Much to my surprise, my new doctor doesn't have Fraxel 2 yet. The nurse said they're getting it the 15th of this month. So, I had nother treatment of Fraxel 1. He did full face, level 18 on the forehead, and level 22 on my cheeks. All at 250. I told him my old doctor did my last two treatments at 24, but he didn't want to go that high the first time. The only difference was my last treatments were all at 125, and this one at 250. Can anyone tell me what the difference is with these numbers? I can tell already my face isn't going to be as swollen as the other times.

jjp, I did use the natragel mask, and it felt great. After I took it off, my face isn't burning at all. I don't know if it's because my settings were lower, or if the mask works that good. Time to wait and see if there's any results.

hey mz430,

i have some oozing too, what it is is basicly goos from acne/acne causing bacteria, basicly the fraxel is wiping out and destroying the acne in that places or going to form in that places and that is why it oozes, also the fraxel is so small microscopicly that is why its popping the acne but not like us popping an acne causing scarring so this is basicly punching a million of tiny holes into the acne therefore causing these yellow oozes to come out. i have a good amount of pinpoint bleeding myself but i wanted my doc to be aggressive, 24 mjs from the fraxel 1 for me. now you have to becareful to wipe those spot from the oozes or chances are they will clog pores and form tiny milia that looks similiar to white heads, i have some myself rite now just woking up n realizing it on my chin, so this has happen to me everytime i do fraxel. what i am going to do is, i am going to moisturize my face still but avoid those milia so they can dry up n peeel off eventually in like da next day or other day. hth, i need breakfast now.

hey mz430,

i have some oozing too, what it is is basicly goos from acne/acne causing bacteria, basicly the fraxel is wiping out and destroying the acne in that places or going to form in that places and that is why it oozes, also the fraxel is so small microscopicly that is why its popping the acne but not like us popping an acne causing scarring so this is basicly punching a million of tiny holes into the acne therefore causing these yellow oozes to come out. i have a good amount of pinpoint bleeding myself but i wanted my doc to be aggressive, 24 mjs from the fraxel 1 for me. now you have to becareful to wipe those spot from the oozes or chances are they will clog pores and form tiny milia that looks similiar to white heads, i have some myself rite now just woking up n realizing it on my chin, so this has happen to me everytime i do fraxel. what i am going to do is, i am going to moisturize my face still but avoid those milia so they can dry up n peeel off eventually in like da next day or other day. hth, i need breakfast now.

Are you sure they're acne? I haven't broken out in a real long time and it was oozing all over my cheeks. Last time @ 25 I only had 2 tiny spots of oozing but this time was more different. Afterward it gets crusted and I had to wash my face w/ water. It stopped today though. I didn't have pinpoint bleeding this time. Okay I'm just updating that everything is fine now.

#1 Cubs, 250 is the density of mtz per cm2, meaning that your treatment was twice as intense as at 125 density. I am a little surprised by the setting. Normally, the protocol is to reduce to 125 density once mjs exceed 16 or 18 becasue the width of mtzs increase with mjs. Perhaps you had fewer passes, but I am still surprised.

I would ask your doc. Perhaps he has some new data to suggest higher efficacy, with safety, at 250 density. What was your total KJs?

#1 Cubs, 250 is the density of mtz per cm2, meaning that your treatment was twice as intense as at 125 density. I am a little surprised by the setting. Normally, the protocol is to reduce to 125 density once mjs exceed 16 or 18 becasue the width of mtzs increase with mjs. Perhaps you had fewer passes, but I am still surprised.

I would ask your doc. Perhaps he has some new data to suggest higher efficacy, with safety, at 250 density. What was your total KJs?

He never told me. I believe he did 2 passes on my forehead, and 4 on my cheeks.

hey mz430,

i have some oozing too, what it is is basically good from acne/acne causing bacteria, basically the fraxel is wiping out and destroying the acne in that places or going to form in that places and that is why it oozes, also the fraxel is so small microscopicly that is why its popping the acne but not like us popping an acne causing scarring so this is basically punching a million of tiny holes into the acne therefore causing these yellow oozes to come out. i have a good amount of pinpoint bleeding myself but i wanted my doc to be aggressive, 24 mjs from the fraxel 1 for me. now you have to be careful to wipe those spot from the oozes or chances are they will clog pores and form tiny milia that looks similar to white heads, i have some myself rite now just waking up n realizing it on my chin, so this has happen to me every time i do fraxel. what i am going to do is, i am going to moisturize my face still but avoid those milia so they can dry up n peel off eventually in like da next day or other day. hth, i need breakfast now.

Are you sure they're acne? I haven't broken out in a real long time and it was oozing all over my cheeks. Last time @ 25 I only had 2 tiny spots of oozing but this time was more different. Afterward it gets crusted and I had to wash my face w/ water. It stopped today though. I didn't have pinpoint bleeding this time. Okay I'm just updating that everything is fine now.

 

MZ/Simply,

The "oozing" you are referring to is from interstitial fluid or blood plasma. This is actually a good sign and means the Mtz are reaching deep and consequently the skin is attempting to repair itself. I have experienced this myself at 20 mj and above. This is really nothing to worry about at all.

Hang in there MZ. I really think you are at the halfway stage before you begin to notice anything worth writing about with regards to improvement. Take care. Glad to see you are all still on the forum.

Wow...can't believe the prices i'm reading for you guys paying for fraxel full face - $1000? $500 for just the forehead?

There are 3 skin rejuvenation/spas in Michigan that do fraxel. One doctor does full face for $1000-1500 - not quite sure. The one that i've gone to does full face for only $400! I'm also treated like a prince to the fullest. I was skeptic because of the price but the free consultation was the deciding factor. I referred a friend and he got it done, which gives me a 15% discount on my next procedure ($340 - full face) and 15% for his next. It's too bad that doctors charge whatever they want to charge.

I would ONLY trust a doctor to do this procedure. I would never to to a beauty salon or spa to have any laer treatments much less the Fraxel. Anyone can buy the machines but it doesnt' mean they are qualified to use it.. Be careful. I would bet they do very low settings which won't really produce any results. Just my guess.

What were the setting they did on your full face for $400?

I haven't experience oozing. When the flakey skin gets crusty it might ooz a little bit around day 4 or 5 but only after forming mild scabs of dried skin and it's hardly noticable. Hmmmmm now I want oozing lol!!

Wow...can't believe the prices i'm reading for you guys paying for fraxel full face - $1000? $500 for just the forehead?

There are 3 skin rejuvenation/spas in Michigan that do fraxel. One doctor does full face for $1000-1500 - not quite sure. The one that i've gone to does full face for only $400! I'm also treated like a prince to the fullest. I was skeptic because of the price but the free consultation was the deciding factor. I referred a friend and he got it done, which gives me a 15% discount on my next procedure ($340 - full face) and 15% for his next. It's too bad that doctors charge whatever they want to charge.

I would ONLY trust a doctor to do this procedure. I would never to to a beauty salon or spa to have any laer treatments much less the Fraxel. Anyone can buy the machines but it doesnt' mean they are qualified to use it.. Be careful. I would bet they do very low settings which won't really produce any results. Just my guess.

What were the setting they did on your full face for $400?

I haven't experience oozing. When the flakey skin gets crusty it might ooz a little bit around day 4 or 5 but only after forming mild scabs of dried skin and it's hardly noticable. Hmmmmm now I want oozing lol!!

 

jjp007: I am from Michigan too and the Three Spas Silvergsboy is referring to are actually Medical facilities. They market themselves this way, for some reason, but they are run by doctors, medical professionals.

Silvergsboy: I think I go to the same facility you do. Is it the one located in Shelby Township? Just curious.

i have scars all over my cheeks and on my jawline. there are a lot of indented ones that look horrible, but what bothers me more is the really shallow scars. they are indented hardly at all but there so many of them all around that my cheeks dont even look like skin anymore, but that is most noticable in harsh light. does anybody think that fraxel can solve this problem and restore that skin(for lack of a better word) to its natural complexion. like i said, they are pretty much flat but it looks like all my cheeks are made of scar tissue with much indentions. maybe i can get some pics up later

Much to my surprise, my new doctor doesn't have Fraxel 2 yet. The nurse said they're getting it the 15th of this month. So, I had nother treatment of Fraxel 1. He did full face, level 18 on the forehead, and level 22 on my cheeks. All at 250. I told him my old doctor did my last two treatments at 24, but he didn't want to go that high the first time. The only difference was my last treatments were all at 125, and this one at 250. Can anyone tell me what the difference is with these numbers? I can tell already my face isn't going to be as swollen as the other times.

jjp, I did use the natragel mask, and it felt great. After I took it off, my face isn't burning at all. I don't know if it's because my settings were lower, or if the mask works that good. Time to wait and see if there's any results.

Cubs,

They were supposed to have the SR1500 when I went in for my treatment on the 27th. I am really surprised to hear the upgrade wasn't in place for your treatment. I will call my contact at Reliant to see what the delay is. I am guessing the holidays are the reason. I wouldn't be too concerned with your first treatment starting off at 20mj/cm2. Most doctors prefer to start conservative. With your next treatment they should have Fraxel 2 and can treat you much much more aggressively (as high as 40mj/cm2 @ treatment parameter 10).

Fraxel 2 is also capable of self adjusting itself to hundreds of different pass density levels and does based on the treatment parameter selected to ensure the most appropriate pass density is used. This makes operator error virtually impossible. Just remember all of the treatment parameters with Fraxel 2 are based on an 8 pass minimum so just make sure you are getting enough passes and you will be getting text book treatments. 😉 For your next visit, I would call ahead next time just to be sure the upgrade is complete.

Anybody here using Dr. Cohen in Bev. Hills? Just did my first one with Flora, the nurse tech. She was very nice but not aggresive enough for my taste. She would only go up to level 12. She did many passes but nothing with high energy.

Wow...can't believe the prices i'm reading for you guys paying for fraxel full face - $1000? $500 for just the forehead?

There are 3 skin rejuvenation/spas in Michigan that do fraxel. One doctor does full face for $1000-1500 - not quite sure. The one that i've gone to does full face for only $400! I'm also treated like a prince to the fullest. I was skeptic because of the price but the free consultation was the deciding factor. I referred a friend and he got it done, which gives me a 15% discount on my next procedure ($340 - full face) and 15% for his next. It's too bad that doctors charge whatever they want to charge.

I would ONLY trust a doctor to do this procedure. I would never to to a beauty salon or spa to have any laer treatments much less the Fraxel. Anyone can buy the machines but it doesnt' mean they are qualified to use it.. Be careful. I would bet they do very low settings which won't really produce any results. Just my guess.

What were the setting they did on your full face for $400?

I haven't experience oozing. When the flakey skin gets crusty it might ooz a little bit around day 4 or 5 but only after forming mild scabs of dried skin and it's hardly noticable. Hmmmmm now I want oozing lol!!

 

jjp007: I am from Michigan too and the Three Spas Silvergsboy is referring to are actually Medical facilities. They market themselves this way, for some reason,

but they are run by doctors, medical professionals.

Silvergsboy: I think I go to the same facility you do. Is it the one located in Shelby Township? Just curious.

 

HAHA...yes...Dr. MOK! I usually go to skin deep for my microderms and tattoo removals but so good to have alluremedicalspa!

 

I knew it~ Yes, Dr. Mok is great isn't he? They treat me very well and you did describe it to a tee. Skin deep is only a few minutes from where I live, I had a consultation with the doctor over there and did not feel he had my best interest in mind.

Good luck with your treatments. Keep me posted!

Annde

Wild asked about Fraxel 2 (sr 1500) settings. I have only had Sr 750, but I will venture a guess. SR 1500 has 13 preprogrammed levels with increasing coverage with each level. In general, scars are to be treated aggresssively, with mj 40 being level 10 being considered very aggressive, evn for scarring. In fact, the treatment protocols don't contemplate using levels 11, 12, and 13.

This is the big difference between Fraxel 1 settings, as the preprogrammed levels automatically decrease density as the mjs increase to avoid bulk heating and reversion toward full ablation resulting form the wider columns of injury associated with collaterla heat injury. As I understand it, it is regarded as unsafe to treat about 30 mjs at 125 density with Fraxel 1 because the beem splays so that it causes wider columns of injury. Apparently, the SR 1500 does a better job of focusing the light beem so it gets deeper and can be safely used at 40 mjs.

Troubled, is this right?

Hey Billy,

As I was reading your post I was sitting here grinning ear to ear as I can tell you are really picking up on this rather quickly and have studied the treatment chart for the SR 1500 I emailed you a while back.

Sorry I missed some of your earlier posts while I was away. My latop screen has failed so I have no way of accessing the message boards while on the road at the moment. To answer your questions about my treatment plan. My next treatment will HOPEFULLY be with Fraxel 2 as my P/S is in the process of upgrading. I plan to treat at variable mj and treatment parameters in order to keep total kj high while taking advantage of the lower density higher mj settings of Fraxel 2 at the same time. There is a relatively new technique dubbed the cat scratch technique that slightly tweaks the way the way the operator controls the passes for more uniform MTZ placement. This sounds interesting to me and I am currently studying it a bit more. I will post the specifics and numbers for you when I have some more time to sit down and contemplate a little more.

Wild asked about Fraxel 2 (sr 1500) settings. I have only had Sr 750, but I will venture a guess. SR 1500 has 13 preprogrammed levels with increasing coverage with each level. In general, scars are to be treated aggresssively, with mj 40 being level 10 being considered very aggressive, evn for scarring. In fact, the treatment protocols don't contemplate using levels 11, 12, and 13.

This is the big difference between Fraxel 1 settings, as the preprogrammed levels automatically decrease density as the mjs increase to avoid bulk heating and reversion toward full ablation resulting form the wider columns of injury associated with collaterla heat injury. As I understand it, it is regarded as unsafe to treat about 30 mjs at 125 density with Fraxel 1 because the beem splays so that it causes wider columns of injury. Apparently, the SR 1500 does a better job of focusing the light beem so it gets deeper and can be safely used at 40 mjs.

Troubled, is this right?

Hi troubled, What do you make of what billyboy was saying about my settings?

Hey Billy,

As I was reading your post I was sitting here grinning ear to ear as I can tell you are really picking up on this rather quickly and have studied the treatment chart for the SR 1500 I emailed you a while back.

Sorry I missed some of your earlier posts while I was away. My latop screen has failed so I have no way of accessing the message boards while on the road at the moment. To answer your questions about my treatment plan. My next treatment will HOPEFULLY be with Fraxel 2 as my P/S is in the process of upgrading. I plan to treat at variable mj and treatment parameters in order to keep total kj high while taking advantage of the lower density higher mj settings of Fraxel 2 at the same time. There is a relatively new technique dubbed the cat scratch technique that slightly tweaks the way the way the operator controls the passes for more uniform MTZ placement. This sounds interesting to me and I am currently studying it a bit more. I will post the specifics and numbers for you when I have some more time to sit down and contemplate a little more.

 

Troubled, do you agree with the quote below as to Fraxel SR 750 settings above 20 mj? O thought that the combo of higher mjs, # passes, and density would lead to both deeper and denser injury. Also, I have never oozed. In fact, this last time, I had no flaking. Any thoughts on this?

Is there a main difference in results if you go with fraxel 1 as opposed to fraxel 2? because my dermatologist was telling me the max setting on the machine is 18? and can someone quickly summarize the main difference between the two procedures? and is there a huge difference in results?

 

thanks

 

Hi,

The original Fraxel has settings up to 40, the problem is that the openings in the lens are only large enough for a setting of 20mj. The results with this setting are very good if treated agressively; meaning enough passes to treat at least 25% of the face each treatment. This yields somewhere between a 60 to 80% improvement of scarring depending on the severity. The new machine has a lens that adjusts to the actual width of each power setting to give a very accurate and clean distribution of the laser beams into the tissue. So the new machine is better providing the user has good experience with Fraxel in general. I hope this helps.

hey mz430,

i have some oozing too, what it is is basically good from acne/acne causing bacteria, basically the fraxel is wiping out and destroying the acne in that places or going to form in that places and that is why it oozes, also the fraxel is so small microscopicly that is why its popping the acne but not like us popping an acne causing scarring so this is basically punching a million of tiny holes into the acne therefore causing these yellow oozes to come out. i have a good amount of pinpoint bleeding myself but i wanted my doc to be aggressive, 24 mjs from the fraxel 1 for me. now you have to be careful to wipe those spot from the oozes or chances are they will clog pores and form tiny milia that looks similar to white heads, i have some myself rite now just waking up n realizing it on my chin, so this has happen to me every time i do fraxel. what i am going to do is, i am going to moisturize my face still but avoid those milia so they can dry up n peel off eventually in like da next day or other day. hth, i need breakfast now.

Are you sure they're acne? I haven't broken out in a real long time and it was oozing all over my cheeks. Last time @ 25 I only had 2 tiny spots of oozing but this time was more different. Afterward it gets crusted and I had to wash my face w/ water. It stopped today though. I didn't have pinpoint bleeding this time. Okay I'm just updating that everything is fine now.

 

MZ/Simply,

The "oozing" you are referring to is from interstitial fluid or blood plasma. This is actually a good sign and means the Mtz are reaching deep and consequently the skin is attempting to repair itself. I have experienced this myself at 20 mj and above. This is really nothing to worry about at all.

Hang in there MZ. I really think you are at the halfway stage before you begin to notice anything worth writing about with regards to improvement. Take care. Glad to see you are all still on the forum.

 

Hey Trouble S. I was waiting for you to answer my question. Nice to see you around again. I can relax now. I also can't wait to get my 5th one done @ end of this month. I hope I won't be needing anymore after that but never know.

JJP: The oozing you get is right after the treatment. It usually happens when I walk out of the doc.'s office. The oozing drooled down my chin when I was driving home (yeah real gross). It didn't stop until today. I also realize that the aloe vera doesn't burn my face anymore. I think it is b/c all the wounds are closed up now.

JJP: How long did it take for the swollen to go down? I'm still real swollen similar to last night. I hope it goes down by tomorrow. Am I looking at a longer downtime? Say 2x my previous treatment (12days)? It took me 6 days last time.

Troubled, do you agree with the quote below as to Fraxel SR 750 settings above 20 mj? O thought that the combo of higher mjs, # passes, and density would lead to both deeper and denser injury. Also, I have never oozed. In fact, this last time, I had no flaking. Any thoughts on this?

 

Is there a main difference in results if you go with fraxel 1 as opposed to fraxel 2? because my dermatologist was telling me the max setting on the machine is 18? and can someone quickly summarize the main difference between the two procedures? and is there a huge difference in results?

thanks

Hi,

The original Fraxel has settings up to 40, the problem is that the openings in the lens are only large enough for a setting of 20mj. The results with this setting are very good if treated agressively; meaning enough passes to treat at least 25% of the face each treatment. This yields somewhere between a 60 to 80% improvement of scarring depending on the severity. The new machine has a lens that adjusts to the actual width of each power setting to give a very accurate and clean distribution of the laser beams into the tissue. So the new machine is better providing the user has good experience with Fraxel in general. I hope this helps.

 

 

Billy,

True, the original Fraxel cannot increase its laser spot size beyond 20mj. The laser energy begins to scatter to a greater degree with each respective increase beyond 20 mj. Still, the SR750 is capable of reaching deeper tissue depth up to 30mj. For example: We know that 20mj reaches 750 microns and 30 mj reach 950 microns. That considered, due to the destabilization effect and lack of solid clinical data past 20mj many practitioners will still not treat beyond 20mj/cm2 with Fraxel 1. Hopefully that answers your question.

About the lack of oozing/flaking, there is really no way to tell for sure. Does your Dr. calibrate his Fraxel regularly? This is often overlooked but I think important as it must be in proper alignment to give the most benefit.

Had my first fraxel treatment tonite.... my settings were 40mj level 7 @ 23% and she went over my face several times, i lost count....

The pain was pretty bad but i was able to tolerate it. I think next time we might go to level 8 or level 9 at 29%

My derm said that i might only need two or three treatments because of my skin.

Had my first fraxel treatment tonite.... my settings were 40mj level 7 @ 23% and she went over my face several times, i lost count....

The pain was pretty bad but i was able to tolerate it. I think next time we might go to level 8 or level 9 at 29%

My derm said that i might only need two or three treatments because of my skin.

oh and to people who want to know what it feels like or the pain equivilance, imagine taking a razor blade and slicing your face over and over while the "zimmer" blows on your face lol...... its tolerable if you think about the results your going to get.... so everytime they "slice" just smile and imagine your face looking better!

my analogy, thanks!

Troubled, I will ask about calibration. I used acquafor last time, rather than vaseline, to mositurize. So, I thought this plus a tendency to flake less with successive treatment accounted for lack of flaking after #5, which I had in previous 4. I had pinpoint bleeding 1 or 2 times, but I attiributed this to taking naproxen for my spine pain, which I now stop 5 days in advance. In hindsight I think was this was a mistake not to spot treat, but my nurse would not do extra passes in scarred areas because I had the pin point bleeding under eyes. But, I never recall any oozing beyond the bleeding.

Troubled, I will ask about calibration. I used acquafor last time, rather than vaseline, to mositurize. So, I thought this plus a tendency to flake less with successive treatment accounted for lack of flaking after #5, which I had in previous 4. I had pinpoint bleeding 1 or 2 times, but I attiributed this to taking naproxen for my spine pain, which I now stop 5 days in advance. In hindsight I think was this was a mistake not to spot treat, but my nurse would not do extra passes in scarred areas because I had the pin point bleeding under eyes. But, I never recall any oozing beyond the bleeding.

Hey billyboy,

I look like I was in a boxing match today, so I guess the treatment was pretty high, huh? I've never had a fat lip before. No pin point bleeding this time, though. I'm really hoping he has the newer Fraxel by my next visit. Hopefully, we'll all be looking great by summer! :dance:

Troubled, I will ask about calibration. I used acquafor last time, rather than vaseline, to mositurize. So, I thought this plus a tendency to flake less with successive treatment accounted for lack of flaking after #5, which I had in previous 4. I had pinpoint bleeding 1 or 2 times, but I attiributed this to taking naproxen for my spine pain, which I now stop 5 days in advance. In hindsight I think was this was a mistake not to spot treat, but my nurse would not do extra passes in scarred areas because I had the pin point bleeding under eyes. But, I never recall any oozing beyond the bleeding.

wow billyboy,

according to your signature, you did 25 mjs full face? i opted out and chose 20mjs and 24mjs on scarred areas/bad areas as contrast to yours 30mjs over it? how was the pain and results so far? not to mention the downtime? mine usually subsides over 4 days

Troubled, I will ask about calibration. I used acquafor last time, rather than Vaseline, to moisturize. So, I thought this plus a tendency to flake less with successive treatment accounted for lack of flaking after #5, which I had in previous 4. I had pinpoint bleeding 1 or 2 times, but I attributed this to taking naproxen for my spine pain, which I now stop 5 days in advance. In hindsight I think was this was a mistake not to spot treat, but my nurse would not do extra passes in scarred areas because I had the pin point bleeding under eyes. But, I never recall any oozing beyond the bleeding.

Billy

I am not sure to what degree lack of calibration effects Fraxel but Reliant incorporated it into the design for a reason so it certainly doesn't hurt to ask. As mentioned most of my scarring is confined to my chin and is minimally hypertrophic so it will be interesting to see how effective multiple treatment will be for flattening those raised areas. As mentioned to cubs I am taking an expensive chance but believe it is always wisest to start out the least invasive first. I have experimented with dermasanding with excellent results however do not like the down time. How are those molars by the way? 😆

My density was only 125 compared to Cubs 250, which means that must have really hurt, unless she only had a couple passes. The pain from fraxel is way less than my spine pain (just had my 4 th surgery on Dec 28 and this looks like it was successful) and last month I tore a rotator cuff tendon swimming. So, the pain is not an issue for me. Like you, downtme is 4 to 5 days.

Fraxel has been great for rejuvenating skin, but I am still underwhelmed by scar improvement. I am guessing that my age does not help. Also, I think it takes more than 5 treatments and more time to see results. Also, 800 microns is nothing, so depth may be an issue. I know 100 microns is not visible to human eye, but that 300 might be. So, 800 may not be deep enoguh for scarring. I really don't know. I am seeing enough improvement to keep going, but it is far from a miracle for me.