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Update...
Today is 4 weeks since my third Fraxel 2 treatment.
The quarter sized area on my left cheek just under the cheekbone that was sunken in is still raised up, so I don't think it is due to microswelling. I go from being thrilled that it's raised up to being a bit disappointed because NOW the scars from the individual cysts that caused it to sink in in the first place are much more obvious. (Oh, well - if it ain't one thing, it's another, right?)
One of the three chicken pox looking saucer shaped scars has filled in quite a bit - this one is on my right cheek. The second one appears to have become more shallow, but not filled in in the same way as the first one - also on my right cheek. The third one shows no change - it's on my nose, and the smallest of the three.
There is a definite change in the marionette line area. Some of the finest lines have softened quite a bit. There are deep lines on each side of my chin, and - strange as it is - there are little patches that have softened along each line. Not the whole line, though. So it looks kinda broken instead of a continuous line.
Lines around my eyes have improved a lot, too.
I go for my fourth treatment with Fraxel 2 this coming Monday (11/13)
I'm worried because the last one hurt SOOOO bad....I hope I can tolerate the pain.
Day 19 from Old Fraxel: Skin is still light pink. I still have patches of dry skin. It is just stuck to my skin. Skin feels tight too. When I wash my face you could see all of the loose dry skin. So very flaky still. I see minimial improvement around 2-3%. Pores are back to normal and all the scars that I had are still there. I'm hoping it will be different on my second treatment. I looked at Simply Me's link of photos. I would say that my skin looks similar to the 1st and 5th girl's after photo except the chicken pox scar. I'm amazed on the improvements w/ larger scars on all of those photos. I have a good feeling about this treatment though and I'm going to stick with it.
How is everyone else doing? (Simply Me, Shyone, Melb666)
Day 19 from Old Fraxel: Skin is still light pink. I still have patches of dry skin. It is just stuck to my skin. Skin feels tight too. When I wash my face you could see all of the loose dry skin. So very flaky still. I see minimial improvement around 2-3%. Pores are back to normal and all the scars that I had are still there. I'm hoping it will be different on my second treatment. I looked at Simply Me's link of photos. I would say that my skin looks similar to the 1st and 5th girl's after photo except the chicken pox scar. I'm amazed on the improvements w/ larger scars on all of those photos. I have a good feeling about this treatment though and I'm going to stick with it.
How is everyone else doing? (Simply Me, Shyone, Melb666)
day 12
lol, i feel you mz.43026, i too have a good feeling about this treatment. so far things are going well, i resumed my daily walking exercise today, walked for about 2 and a half hour, my skin looks amazing after every work out. also i resumed the hyperpigmentation cream, i want to get in a good 2 week before my next treatment so i can go to 20mjs this time. i'm not sure if 20 mjs on the full face will have more positive outcome cuz i know it should on the scarring areas but what about healthy normal skin area, someone clarify this?
perhaps i will considering just doing 18mjs or so on full face and 20 mjs on scarred areas only. but i know for sure i want to go deeper also i kno my doc will want to do additional passes on the scarred area like he did last time. what happened during my 1st treatment for those who is interested was that it was a full face 16mjs everywhere, i think a total of 8 passes each. then another 2 or 4 passes on the scarred area, not sure but i think its 4. note that i didn't even sleep the night before this 1st operation, lol i'll make dam sure i get plenty of rest this time around so my body is up to par. aside from that things are ok, i been taking photos to record results and i will post them eventually. there are stil some dead skin spot darken now stuck to my face like scales but i dont care really. my face still has a reddish/pinkish look overall to the areas other then my eyes, look like a bad sunburn once more but is subsided. i should return back to work soon so thats good, i still owe money for the procedure, 2500 total for 4 full face treatment wit fraxel 1 is a terrific deal in OC.
oh yea my scars i would say all of it, if not most of it are almost filled in, they are at least or above 30 or 40 percent filled in. i have moderate amount but they are not deep at all, very shallow. pores are still visable but still only 1 treatment done so i have 3 more, should be good after. dont know what to say now so i'm out, good luck everybody! :clap: :dance:
:pray: for better days!
Day 20: Skin is light pink. Most of my dry skin came off today. Skin looks almost normal now and is prepared for 2nd treatment.
Simply Me: It would be nice to view your photo on your progress. What you're describing sound amazing, especially for the 1st treatment.
Right now, I'm only applying Aloe and I can't wait until next week for the 2nd treatment. Feel like its taking forever. For people who doesn't wear makeup to cover the skin up, I have to say that the overall healing for fraxel takes longer than 1 week. Is it even healthy to wear makeup after doing treatments like Fraxel? Also, I'm thinking of having my skin extracted 1-2 days before fraxel. I feel like the reason my pores didn't change is because it might of been clogged and that fraxel couldn't penetrate deeper enough. What do you guys think??
Day 20: Skin is light pink. Most of my dry skin came off today. Skin looks almost normal now and is prepared for 2nd treatment.
Simply Me: It would be nice to view your photo on your progress. What you're describing sound amazing, especially for the 1st treatment.
Right now, I'm only applying Aloe and I can't wait until next week for the 2nd treatment. Feel like its taking forever. For people who doesn't wear makeup to cover the skin up, I have to say that the overall healing for fraxel takes longer than 1 week. Is it even healthy to wear makeup after doing treatments like Fraxel? Also, I'm thinking of having my skin extracted 1-2 days before fraxel. I feel like the reason my pores didn't change is because it might of been clogged and that fraxel couldn't penetrate deeper enough. What do you guys think??
Fraxel is a fiber erbium laser with a strong selectivity for water. Since your healthy skin is by far the most abundant source of water, the laser energy will still deeply pass through your pores regardless of whether or not your pores are clogged with sebum and dead skin cells. The strong selectivity of the Fraxel laser is also one of the reasons why it does not damage hair follicles at high mj (energy levels) as well. I hope this helps answer your question.
Is anyone going to work/school after 2-3 days pre fraxel 1 (2 is not available where I live & prob wont be for ages)?.I plan on doing fraxel on wednesdays & attend work on sat but im worried about peoples reaction.Ive read alot and researched alot but id like to know about people who are doing this,is it possible?.Also what are the chances of pigmentation even after high sun protection even after applying every 2-3 hrs?,i will be getting some sun exposure in work but not direct through windows. Im a guy (light fair brown asian skin) so i cant really put on make up and go to work.I dont mind the redness that much as long as its not a severe sun burn look.
Is anyone going to work/school after 2-3 days pre fraxel 1 (2 is not available where I live & prob wont be for ages)?.I plan on doing fraxel on wednesdays & attend work on sat but im worried about peoples reaction.Ive read alot and researched alot but id like to know about people who are doing this,is it possible?.Also what are the chances of pigmentation even after high sun protection even after applying every 2-3 hrs?,i will be getting some sun exposure in work but not direct through windows. Im a guy (light fair brown asian skin) so i cant really put on make up and go to work.I dont mind the redness that much as long as its not a severe sun burn look.
the flaking and swelling may be more of a problem than anything. dont go by what the reliant site or pamplets say about mimimum recovery time. for deep resurfacing of acne scars there is about five days where you wont want to go out.
I really don't understand the paranoia about people noticing your skin looks irritated, especially being a guy. The swelling is different, but the red peely skin.......who cares.
You may not want to go clubbing, or to a wedding or something, but if your scars are bad enough to seek treatment for, then most people will have noticed you have scars. If people ask you about it just tell them you are getting a treatment for your acne scars.
If you are a women just say you are having a facial treatment for your complexion - almost every woman will understand. For guys, other guys will either understand or not care. I doubt any will judge you for it, and if they do, who cares, they are not the kind of people you want to hang around with.
I only had one person ask me, a good friend. I told her I had laser treatment and she thought it was fantastic and wanted to know all about it.
In reality most people aren't very observant, and the rest don't care. Just my two cents.
Peach Pie
Saw derm today, whom I trust to be honest. He just returned from derm conference. There are many different fractional lasers in the works wiht different wavelenghts, most are erbium but a CO2 is coming out soon.
He was going to upgrade to SR 1500, with soon to expire upgrade credit, but has now decided not to. Apparently, most of these derms believe that fractional is the best mehtod for treating acne scars. But, it probably requires higher setttings and more treatments than I had.
Morever, he told me that he asked several of his colleagues about effiacy of the new Fraxel vs. old. He was told my these docs that they do not perceive any clinical difference. Also, he thinks it will be awhile before there is robust clincial data as to efficacy.
We breilfly discussed clinical trials. I must admit that I have only ready press releases from Reliant about FDA approval for scarring adn relted studies. It appears to me that they did not have an untreated, double blind control group for the independent, blinded assessors.
In other words, had they done this "valid" type of study, I would have expected commetary in the press release that the blinded independent evalator rated the treated group to have an average of x% improvement vs y% improvement for the untreated group.
Anyway, I am not slamming fraxel. I just wish there was better efficacy data. In fact, I will proably go for 4 more at hgierh settings, as I think it is safe, with the prospect for some gain.
Day 20: Skin is light pink. Most of my dry skin came off today. Skin looks almost normal now and is prepared for 2nd treatment.
Simply Me: It would be nice to view your photo on your progress. What you're describing sound amazing, especially for the 1st treatment.
Right now, I'm only applying Aloe and I can't wait until next week for the 2nd treatment. Feel like its taking forever. For people who doesn't wear makeup to cover the skin up, I have to say that the overall healing for fraxel takes longer than 1 week. Is it even healthy to wear makeup after doing treatments like Fraxel? Also, I'm thinking of having my skin extracted 1-2 days before fraxel. I feel like the reason my pores didn't change is because it might of been clogged and that fraxel couldn't penetrate deeper enough. What do you guys think??
Fraxel is a fiber erbium laser with a strong selectivity for water. Since your healthy skin is by far the most abundant source of water, the laser energy will still deeply pass through your pores regardless of whether or not your pores are clogged with sebum and dead skin cells. The strong selectivity of the Fraxel laser is also one of the reasons why it does not damage hair follicles at high mj (energy levels) as well. I hope this helps answer your question.
Yes it helps. Thanks for the info. I won't do extractions then. I guess I over analyzed.
Is anyone going to work/school after 2-3 days pre fraxel 1 (2 is not available where I live & prob wont be for ages)?.I plan on doing fraxel on wednesdays & attend work on sat but im worried about peoples reaction.Ive read alot and researched alot but id like to know about people who are doing this,is it possible?.Also what are the chances of pigmentation even after high sun protection even after applying every 2-3 hrs?,i will be getting some sun exposure in work but not direct through windows. Im a guy (light fair brown asian skin) so i cant really put on make up and go to work.I dont mind the redness that much as long as its not a severe sun burn look.
It took me 4 days to look normal enough. I think you should ask Simply Me about healing time, he is a guy. I think its unhealthly for your fresh skin to have any sun exposure. You could apply a high SPF tinted sunblock, it helps with covering up some of the redness and wear a hat.
^ lol, to answer your question Ihsahn. i have had 1 fraxel done already so i know first hand experiences, i will have my next fraxel treatment done next friday and will take the day off from work and resume work on monday, i dont care if i'm still red or swollen, i need the money.
Ihsahn, i am an asian guy also but with fairly light skin. this is what you will be expecting after your fraxel treatment. during the treatment, prepare for the pain baby! lol, after that is all over with, you can breathe easier knowing that its all done with for now... then you will notice your face will look extremely swolen, very very swolen (think Hitch with his alergic reaction swolen). Then your treated areas, will look like you suffered from a SEVERE sun burn. Then depending on your first reaction to the fraxel, you might break out with some whiteheads or milia, i can help you overcome this if its a problem. aside from the massive swelling and intense sun burn look, your skin will be extremely fragile (think accutane fragile like). People will think you have gotten stung by a bee or is suffering from a alergic reaction severely or is having a really REALLY bad sunburn. other then that, you'll be okay man. if you want to subside the swelling, take an icepack and take a nap with it on all the areas thats treated. i didn't do the icepack, i did the slept with a fan on and the swelling went down dramaticly next day but expect at least 3 to 4 days or even a week worth of swelling, i hope that helps. oh yea, it might itches a lot too, but dont touch your face!!!!!
o yea, my homie asked me if i got a sunburn, n i just told him straight up that i'm doing acne scar revisions so my skin will be red. yea my still looks rather raw and pinkish, and reddish, though my only regret is that i should of left or try to make the dead skin or flakes or peeled skin stay on for as long as possible (think of a scab and how it heals underneath). i've resumed exercising (daily walks for an hour or two) and have been resuming my hyperpigmentation cream (hydroquinone 9%) so i can persuade my derm to feel comfortable going to 20mjs or being more aggressive toward the scars. hope that helps and good luck.
mz43029 said it best, make dam sure you protect your face from the sun, i dont care what you do, but make dam sure you cover it. i recomend you buying a 45spf sunblock (thats the highest) cuz u said you will be exposed to the sunlight a lot during work, hope that helps Ihsahn.
Ok my doctor encouraged me to come here and continue sharing. I even think one of the nurses in the office will be coming into this thread to offer her help and advise. My doctor, Dr. Paul Friedman is very excited about this laser, well he's pretty excited about everything he's doing in his office!
He said yes, the Fraxel 2 is new technology with a system upgrade from the Fraxel 1. I asked him about other fractional lasers and he really thinks the Fraxel is the best and the others are just trying to jump on the bandwagon and make money ( cheaper machine but doctors are charging the same as a Fraxel)
Shyone is correct that 40 is the highest setting (darn doctor started me at the highest 
My second one today he continued with the 40 but went up on the overall coverage of the face (not sure what this is called). I think he said he started me out at 19% coverage and went up to 23% today but I'm not sure, he was talking fast. He really likes going agressive with this machine but I'm still to scared to go to the fullest yet maybe with my third one I will go for it. It hurt like heck this time but I made it.
Last time I was housebound for only 2 days, by the 3rd day I will still a little swollen but I could put on makekup and leave the house. By day 4 I was almost back to looking 'normal' with makeup.
I wouldn't put on makeup for a few days but after that I don't think it hurts anything. The doctor said it was fine.
^ lol, to answer your question Ihsahn. i have had 1 fraxel done already so i know first hand experiences, i will have my next fraxel treatment done next friday and will take the day off from work and resume work on monday, i dont care if i'm still red or swollen, i need the money.
Ihsahn, i am an asian guy also but with fairly light skin. this is what you will be expecting after your fraxel treatment. during the treatment, prepare for the pain baby! lol, after that is all over with, you can breathe easier knowing that its all done with for now... then you will notice your face will look extremely swolen, very very swolen (think Hitch with his alergic reaction swolen). Then your treated areas, will look like you suffered from a SEVERE sun burn. Then depending on your first reaction to the fraxel, you might break out with some whiteheads or milia, i can help you overcome this if its a problem. aside from the massive swelling and intense sun burn look, your skin will be extremely fragile (think accutane fragile like). People will think you have gotten stung by a bee or is suffering from a alergic reaction severely or is having a really REALLY bad sunburn. other then that, you'll be okay man. if you want to subside the swelling, take an icepack and take a nap with it on all the areas thats treated. i didn't do the icepack, i did the slept with a fan on and the swelling went down dramaticly next day but expect at least 3 to 4 days or even a week worth of swelling, i hope that helps. oh yea, it might itches a lot too, but dont touch your face!!!!!
o yea, my homie asked me if i got a sunburn, n i just told him straight up that i'm doing acne scar revisions so my skin will be red. yea my still looks rather raw and pinkish, and reddish, though my only regret is that i should of left or try to make the dead skin or flakes or peeled skin stay on for as long as possible (think of a scab and how it heals underneath). i've resumed exercising (daily walks for an hour or two) and have been resuming my hyperpigmentation cream (hydroquinone 9%) so i can persuade my derm to feel comfortable going to 20mjs or being more aggressive toward the scars. hope that helps and good luck.
mz43029 said it best, make dam sure you protect your face from the sun, i dont care what you do, but make dam sure you cover it. i recomend you buying a 45spf sunblock (thats the highest) cuz u said you will be exposed to the sunlight a lot during work, hope that helps Ihsahn.
I'm using 58SPF Fallene COTZ right now. I did use Obagi sunscreen but it was too light on my skin.
Simply Me: How did you get hydroquinone 9%? Does it burn at all? I use 4% and it irriates alittle. I will also ask her to go aggressive next friday.
http://asgic.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=Scar
lol!! i found a new scar support forum!! haha there's is nothing compares to ours!! ours rule!!! also if you find a fraxel thread in there, you will see a lot of negativity about fraxel, i dont know why for them but i for one am very happy with fraxel so far and is going to be optimistic and faithful about this, and know that in the end, things will be much much better.
m4329, i got the hydroquinone 9% from my doc, he wanted to make sure i dont hyperpig up during/after the treatment, so i guess i will continue to use it. also you know what is ironic, you and me have our 2nd fraxel treatment on the same day!!! yes next friday for both of us!!! good luck
thanks alot for your replies!.I dont want to look like a joke at work this is my main concern & this whole procedure is like a full years time,6 months (i cant do more than once a month) for the laser 6 more months to see full results.Can the swelling go down in 2 days? i dont really mind the redness my face is anyway mild red all the time,the flaking etc i gues sill have tomanage that.The pain is a bit of a problem but i guess i can tolerate it if it can somewhat help my scars and skin tone.I use a 100 spf sun block ,i live in the middle east and in here its pretty insane,so if i have to do anything i have to do it now since its winter here which is very hot anyway.
Also if someone could help me with this,I had a blue peel 6 months back in which i had some tissue loss,minor scarring (due to my docs fault),can the fraxel make this worse??.Im planning on fraxel then filler.
Simple me- how did you get 9% hydroquinone i thought over 4% is banned worldwide? it can cause hypopigmentation and gives you even more chances of getting skin cancer?.
Jjp007
Based on my experience with Fraxel #1, your settings are very high. 40mjs was the highest setting on Fraxel #1. I am really surprised that they started you at the max, as I only had spot treatments at 30, with my highest full passes at 25. But, while perhaps risky, I think aggressive treatment is a key to success. Best wishes. Do they tell your total energy?
Your coverage is also on the high side. With Fraxel #1, the only factors controlling total energy are intensity of each mtz, expressed in mjs, # of mtzs per cm2 (density), and # passes. The # of passes and the density would control coverage, based on size of each mtz. Normally, 125 density at 8 passes produces about 15% coverage. Unless they have have a device for measuring this, this is a very approximate measurement, because it depends on diameter of mtzs and overlays and the like.
Anyway, I don't feel I understand the physical (setting) differences between Fraxels and am hoping that someone will post on this. More importantly, it would be great to learn of clinical results, but my personal opinion is that you need to wait several months to make informed judgements. The new Fraxel is too new to have solid data, I think.
Can anyone point me to double blind studies, with a control group on either Fraxel.
As noted, I think I am going to give Fraxel another go, but at much higher settings, and would appreciate access to specs and scientific data. I think I am still seeing some very minor improvement, but I know we patients have a tendency to see what we want/hope to see.
Billyboy,
While I'm not familiar with all the nuances involved with obtaining FDA approval I can tell you that FDA testing is among the most rigorous in the world. Few medical professionals would dispute there are many medical devices and potentially lifesaving drugs every year turned that donat make the grade in the US which are able to pass through other countries health care systems with relative ease. If anything, the system being used today is a little too rigorous.
While itas true Fraxel does have itas limitations, I can tell you with absolute certainty there are some notable difference between the old and new Fraxel. Among them are variable spot sizes that increases with mJ output allowing for a more focused and deeper penetration depth. Because of this, P/S offices that have the new system are now routinely treating patients at much higher levels then could have been safely used with the old Fraxel system.
It sounds like your Dr. understands the need to use higher output settings for the treatment of acne scarring. If the SR1500 is making this possible why then wouldnat he want to use it?
As far as fractional CO2 is concerned this has actually been out for a while now and is marketed by Lumenis as Active FX. I think I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts to you. unfortunately Active FX has even less documented efficacy.
Troubled
Maybe Doc did not want to spend the upgrade money. He told me that he changed his mind about upgrading when he heard other Docs at conference say that they did not see any clinical difference at this point, despite the tech advantages. He may change his mind later if improved efficacy data emerges.
He strikes me as having integrity, so I don't think he would lie or spin his decision. On the CO2 fractional, he said it will be awhile before data is available, especially as regards the hypo risk that is a problem with ablative CO2. He thought that could continue to be a problem, despite fractional nature that would not destroy as many melanocytes during treatment.
It so hard to separate truth from hype and draw generalizations from specific situations. That is why there is so much value to this board. I wish there was more pre/post photo posting, especially by those like Blaster, Annie, Sean etc who have had the most experience and healing time with higher settings.
billy, you can find sean's picture, he did post it, i re-posted it on like my previous posts a couple of days ago.
also, mz4329 and ihsahn, i apologize, i read wrong, its actually a 6% hydroquinone not 9% like i previously stated. hahaha i'm not sure why over 4% is banned wordwide but i got this from my doc which is a medical director meaning he's a real doctor. aside from that, things are good, i sure hope i can get a job already, been bumming it at home, well its time to do my daily walking exercise now. good luck everyone.
Billyboy,
There's nothing wrong with your P/S being conservative at all. If anything I think that is a preferable attribute. There are just a few important points that I think are being missed.
1. Separating all of the hype of confusion concerning Fraxel most P/S who have worked with Fraxel extensively seem to agree that more aggressive mj/density equates to better results with relation to acne scarring.
2. The old Fraxel (750) system is very limited as it cannot be used at it's highest output settings. There are clear reasons for this. At 40mj the laser energy scatters and causes collateral heat damage to surrounding tissue. This is a very bad thing and it's limitations are well documented.
3. The new Fraxel system delivers far more focused energy by self adjusting it's laser spot size and can be used at much higher mj settings vs. the old Fraxel system.
These are far from simply technical features as they stand the potential to greatly improve post treatment results. I have heard this new system is now reaching the reticular dermis which is where even the deepest acne scars reside.
Controlled trials are not needed to measure the differences between depth of penetration. This has been established with a simple skin biopsy in beta testing.
Just my opinion but I think the results with the SR1500 have already reached a point where they are clearly discernible. Not to take any credibility away from the field but I have found even the best P/S will recommend what they have and are familiar with.
Can anyone point me to double blind studies, with a control group on either Fraxel.
it's really difficult to find unbiased studies on fraxel treatment
i'm a med student and have quite good resources available to me.. i've tried doing various searches to find them and haven't really come up with anything.
i suspect they just haven't been done.
has anyone had success treating red marks with fraxel?
i wouldn't do fraxel just for red marks. however, i have noticed some improvement in my various red, brown & grey marks