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1 hour ago, Sam456 said:I think subcision has taken me as far as it can and I need to focus on other modalities.
Dr. Rullan has never mentioned it to me either so I think he agrees that surface/ ablative treatments are the best for me.
The money(within reason!) is not really the issue here to be honest. I work a lot and am very fortunate to have extra hours and overtime at my work so I am able to relatively easily save up for my treatments.
At my age I feel like I™ve wasted so much of my life to my skin that I really am just laser focused on improvement and feel good about the tx plan that I am on.
Of course, I™m always open to advice and suggestions.
This is so true. I feel like had a decade lost in my life being miserable with my skin....
Btw, how long does it usually take for you to heal from Dr. Rullan's CROSS? I mean how many days you need to turn your camera off for meetings? 
20 minutes ago, froyosh said:This is so true. I feel like had a decade lost in my life being miserable with my skin....
Btw, how long does it usually take for you to heal from Dr. Rullan's CROSS? I mean how many days you need to turn your camera off for meetings?
Yeah it sucks! But I™m glad to have this community and be able to talk about this and share what helps.
I work in person so it sucks. Basically when I do treatments, I try to have at least 6-7 days off after. Even so, takes about 10 days to look decent. This last time, I only had like 4 days of downtime so it was horrible. Thankfully I am still masking at work so I use a big cloth one under and a surgical mask on top. This hides mostly everything. But even though people may notice, they don™t say anything. This has been my experience for years.
Additionally, I am being left with hypopigmentation so my skin looks weird. I™m still waiting to hear back from Dr. Rullans office about the eye drops to be used topically for that.
We™ll see.
49 minutes ago, Insearch said:I hear you, I just did an extensive subcision treatment and my scars are similar to yours so I™ll wait to heal before I give any more input on treatments but so far with subcision, it™s a slow process but the scars are going away as I do more treatments and I™ve only really started this summer. I did a few times few years ago and here and there in between. I™m speaking about diy subcision using a smaller needle than nokor, but I™ve had about 15 done with a doctor using a nokor needle.
I™m happy you™re seeing good improvement! You are tough if you™re doing diy subcision! No judgment though, these acne scars make us do crazy things lol.
Hello all,
it™s been almost a month since my second erbium/cross combo with Dr. Rullan. Overall, my skin looks better and scarring looks softer. Also a bit wider but softer overall. A couple of scars on my top right cheek are definitely wider and deeper but overall it is much better.
as my scarring is so widespread, I don™t care about individual scars as much as the overall appearance.
I continue with hypopigmentation marks all over my cheeks. I am not too worried about this as I also had some before from Dr. Taylor that did go away after about 6 months. Also I was prescribed the latisse eye drops to help with that.
Now I™m at a crossroads. I can continue with the phenol cross/erbium combo or I can push for the phenol peel.
I™m leaning towards the phenol peel just because it will knockout (hopefully!) most of my texture. I have dozens if not hundreds of scarred pores on my nose and cheeks that I don™t believe pick up on camera but definitely do in real life. These along with my numerous small AND big/ wide acne scars AND hyper / hypopigmentation make for a terrible looking face in real life.
I worry about a couple things. I™m obviously prone to hypopigmentation so what will that mean for me in regards to the all over phenol peel. Will I be ruining my skin color but improving the texture? Will my skin return to normal color after such an intense procedure? Hypopigmentation is almost impossible to cover I™ve learned. this is my main concern.
also 6500+ is a lot to drop at once and I™m still not over the 5000 Dr Taylor adventure I went on. What if the results are not worth the money/down time/ physical and emotional suffering ?
I believe that shei mentioned her scars were barely visible in everyday life before she did the peel. I don™t believe I™m at that point yet but I don™t know how much longer I can wait.
however, the big question for me is can I live like this, with these scars and texture for the rest of my life? The answer is no and the reason I keep spending all this money and going to different doctors. I™m not ready to give up and I™m not ready to accept that this is it.
Pictures in no particular order, in two different lighting. The top 4 are in my bathroom with top down lighting and the rest are at my work with fluorescent lighting.
I think 2 more sessions but make sure to space atleast 3 months in between and then phenol peel
Also what caused your hypo pigment phenol or laser. If this is how it is then the phenol peel lighten overall. Hence all the color would be me neutral and not hypopigmented in spots
Follow this regimen after treatments. At the end of day it is your body producing the results. The treatments just encourage it.
internal: good diet + collagen supplements like dr best brand
external: Cerave vitamin c daytime and nightly retinol or tretinoin
external 2: Treatments every 3 months.
18 hours ago, Wij611 said:Is phenol cross plus erbium abrasion more effective than full ablative erbium on scar borders?
Erbium is more immediate as you practically shave the skin off and can cause texture issues but erbium fractional plus phenol is gradual and will see results after some time
4 hours ago, Wij611 said:
if side effect isnt a problem, which treatment is more effective?
Its a catch 22 scenario, you fix one thing and you might end up worsening the other issue. On my right side I had hard edges the most improvement I have seen was with full ablation of edges in a single session.leading to softer edges. But I would suggest start with phenol and erbium cross doesnt cost much per session compared to dr Taylor where the cost would be mostly higher as per session cost is high.
Hello all.
I had my phenol peel on 1/18 and 1/19. I am currently on day 4. I had read all the posts from others who have had this done but I was still not prepared. This is truly one of the most intense procedures I've had done. I have to say that Dr. Taylor's leaves you a little more ooey gooey while Dr. Rullan's is more dry.
My day 3 was just yesterday and it was intense, even as hopped up on pain meds/relaxants as I was. Thank god that part is done, the pain seems to be gone for the most part as well. I am still super swollen and I have very teary eyes.
Dr. Rullan and his team are awesome as always and Dr. Rullan encouraged me to share my experience as a dark skinned person undergoing the phenol peel. He says he is trying to convince his peers that this can be safely done on dark skin but they are resistant. He did mention they have done this on a skin type 5 and it turned out well. He showed me pictures of skin type 4 who had very severe acne scarring (probably could have used more manual methods to raise/soften the scars more in my opinion) who had good improvement, with some hypopigmentation. Not too bad though.
On a side note, I agree with what Catharsis said that he is going through some stuff in his personal life. I did not ask if he is going to retire. This seemed very personal at the time and he is passionate about helping us acne scar sufferers. He always tells me that he does it for us young people afflicted with scars. However due to what is going on, I think it is a definite possibility. Like Catharsis, I do not feel comfortable posting about it here as it is his personal life.
On the second day, after he had scraped off all the outer layer, he said that I had a lot of scarring. He said it could be from earlier lasers or just regular acne scarring. I mentioned Dr. Taylor to him but as I've unfortunately had severe acne for upwards of 10-15 years, I think its really just a lot of regular acne scarring.
Hopefully this gives me fair to good results. I am really getting tired of doing all these procedures and having to recover from them. I am tired overall.
I don't know if you guys would like to see pictures. Not much to see and I am very swollen. I don't know if I would feel comfortable posting them. I think I will post when the mask is off.
Thankfully this time, I was able to get about 1 month off to recover. Going back to work when you are still raw and healing is terrible and something I will try not to do again, as I did after Dr. Taylor's procedure.
Thanks everyone.
Hello all.
I had my phenol peel on 1/18 and 1/19. I am currently on day 4. I had read all the posts from others who have had this done but I was still not prepared. This is truly one of the most intense procedures I've had done. I have to say that Dr. Taylor's leaves you a little more ooey gooey while Dr. Rullan's is more dry.
My day 3 was just yesterday and it was intense, even as hopped up on pain meds/relaxants as I was. Thank god that part is done, the pain seems to be gone for the most part as well. I am still super swollen and I have very teary eyes.
Dr. Rullan and his team are awesome as always and Dr. Rullan encouraged me to share my experience as a dark skinned person undergoing the phenol peel. He says he is trying to convince his peers that this can be safely done on dark skin but they are resistant. He did mention they have done this on a skin type 5 and it turned out well. He showed me pictures of skin type 4 who had very severe acne scarring (probably could have used more manual methods to raise/soften the scars more in my opinion) who had good improvement, with some hypopigmentation. Not too bad though.
On a side note, I agree with what Catharsis said that he is going through some stuff in his personal life. I did not ask if he is going to retire. This seemed very personal at the time and he is passionate about helping us acne scar sufferers. He always tells me that he does it for us young people afflicted with scars. However due to what is going on, I think it is a definite possibility. Like Catharsis, I do not feel comfortable posting about it here as it is his personal life.
On the second day, after he had scraped off all the outer layer, he said that I had a lot of scarring. He said it could be from earlier lasers or just regular acne scarring. I mentioned Dr. Taylor to him but as I've unfortunately had severe acne for upwards of 10-15 years, I think its really just a lot of regular acne scarring.
Hopefully this gives me fair to good results. I am really getting tired of doing all these procedures and having to recover from them. I am tired overall.
I don't know if you guys would like to see pictures. Not much to see and I am very swollen. I don't know if I would feel comfortable posting them. I think I will post when the mask is off.
Thankfully this time, I was able to get about 1 month off to recover. Going back to work when you are still raw and healing is terrible and something I will try not to do again, as I did after Dr. Taylor's procedure.
Thanks everyone.
+1 for feeling tired of going through procedure recoveries, I really hope phenol peel is the last one. I am tired of hiding myself from others. Did Dr. Rullan say what you can expect from the peel? Did he say you need another one or he thinks this one will give you satisfactory result?
Hello all.
I had my phenol peel on 1/18 and 1/19. I am currently on day 4. I had read all the posts from others who have had this done but I was still not prepared. This is truly one of the most intense procedures I've had done. I have to say that Dr. Taylor's leaves you a little more ooey gooey while Dr. Rullan's is more dry.
My day 3 was just yesterday and it was intense, even as hopped up on pain meds/relaxants as I was. Thank god that part is done, the pain seems to be gone for the most part as well. I am still super swollen and I have very teary eyes.
Dr. Rullan and his team are awesome as always and Dr. Rullan encouraged me to share my experience as a dark skinned person undergoing the phenol peel. He says he is trying to convince his peers that this can be safely done on dark skin but they are resistant. He did mention they have done this on a skin type 5 and it turned out well. He showed me pictures of skin type 4 who had very severe acne scarring (probably could have used more manual methods to raise/soften the scars more in my opinion) who had good improvement, with some hypopigmentation. Not too bad though.
On a side note, I agree with what Catharsis said that he is going through some stuff in his personal life. I did not ask if he is going to retire. This seemed very personal at the time and he is passionate about helping us acne scar sufferers. He always tells me that he does it for us young people afflicted with scars. However due to what is going on, I think it is a definite possibility. Like Catharsis, I do not feel comfortable posting about it here as it is his personal life.
On the second day, after he had scraped off all the outer layer, he said that I had a lot of scarring. He said it could be from earlier lasers or just regular acne scarring. I mentioned Dr. Taylor to him but as I've unfortunately had severe acne for upwards of 10-15 years, I think its really just a lot of regular acne scarring.
Hopefully this gives me fair to good results. I am really getting tired of doing all these procedures and having to recover from them. I am tired overall.
I don't know if you guys would like to see pictures. Not much to see and I am very swollen. I don't know if I would feel comfortable posting them. I think I will post when the mask is off.
Thankfully this time, I was able to get about 1 month off to recover. Going back to work when you are still raw and healing is terrible and something I will try not to do again, as I did after Dr. Taylor's procedure.
Thanks everyone.
+1 for feeling tired of going through procedure recoveries, I really hope phenol peel is the last one. I am tired of hiding myself from others. Did Dr. Rullan say what you can expect from the peel? Did he say you need another one or he thinks this one will give you satisfactory result?
Honestly he didn't say anything which made me feel a little concerned. But also, I appreciate it. Its no bullshit, like all those other doctors who promise a certain percentage and fail to deliver. Hopefully it gives me good results and if not, so be it.
From what other posters have said, seems like two peels is ideal for major improvement. Its a hassle though for sure, to plan, to go through, to recover from (physically/financially/emotionally). For the most part, I just want to get to a point where people don't stare at my face when we're talking. My own family does this and then they also try to convince me to stop getting procedures. Like, this is why I can't stop lol.
However, I'm pretty confident that it will at least help with my overall texture( I have hundreds of scarred pores, don't really pick up on camera), shallow boxcars that hopefully might be evaporated, and hyperpigmentation around the edges of my cheeks, which might be due to all these procedures.
I'm not even recovered from this and I'm already thinking ahead, but if the phenol is able to convert more of my scars to rolling, I want to get just subcision done with Dr. Rullan and try out the subcision/suction method. Crazy to think after all this time, I've never tried it. I remember Mr. Matt's journey and his awesome results. Idk, if its still up after this latest update.
One last thing, Dr. Rullan is great at subcision! I had never gotten it with him and as drugged up as I was, I remember him really going at it and having to work hard to cut through the bands. I could feel and hear the bands tearing. Not sure how long he did it as my time perception was off, but I had thought I was over subcision. If I still had bands he could cut and had to work at, then I guess not. This is a big part of the reason I wanna try the subcision+ suction method after I heal from this.
@sam456 looks like his 3 phenol patients on 1/18 are all members here, still waiting for my mask to come off in an Airbnb here in SD
Im a huge proponent of subcision suction, I was actually quite content to continue that route before doing the peel but jumped at the chance to do the peel because of these rumors about his retirement.
Through a bit of trial and error what has worked for me has been baby aspirin a week before a session of subcision combined with intradermal prp, suction starting at 3 days post, intradermal prp at 2 weeks, continue suctioning for 4 more weeks, intradermal prp on the last day of those 4 weeks of suctioning, then 6 weeks later start the process over again sub+prp etc. This alone has shown more improvement than ALL my previous (8) subcision efforts combined.
Ive also seemingly has success with sub+prp+suction with prp injections at 2 weeks post, 6 weeks post and 10 weeks post. Still only 6 total weeks of suctioning FYI. My only hesitance at this method is whatever progress I saw may well have been residual swelling from prp.
Google scholar is our friend, Im essentially combining two studies. One that showed good results from repeated subcision+Intradermal prp sessions and one that showed success from sub+suction, prp 2 weeks post and more injections at monthly intervals for 3 months.
I have literally noticed that my temples are practically cured to the point where Rullan doesnt bother subbing them anymore and each time he goes into my cheeks there seem to be less bands. Also I just look better period.
For reference I have a scar pattern very similar to yours, am Afro Cuban, and am either a very dark fitz IV or light fitz V
Where this method hasnt worked the doctor I saw hadnt done a proper sub. Everything has to be aligned, the sub doesnt have to be from Rullan but it should be someone using his method bi-level under tumescence, they have to be thorough, the bands have to be cut at the fat layer and right beneath the dermis and you have to be religious about suctioning for six weeks. The suctioning should not cause bruising but your skin should raise at least several mm in the tube while doing it. As an aside if you are a smoker you have to stop, slows/prevents healing.
Sorry for the long post but I just hope people like us can find a way out from under this thing.
@sam456 looks like his 3 phenol patients on 1/18 are all members here, still waiting for my mask to come off in an Airbnb here in SD
Im a huge proponent of subcision suction, I was actually quite content to continue that route before doing the peel but jumped at the chance to do the peel because of these rumors about his retirement.
Through a bit of trial and error what has worked for me has been baby aspirin a week before a session of subcision combined with intradermal prp, suction starting at 3 days post, intradermal prp at 2 weeks, continue suctioning for 4 more weeks, intradermal prp on the last day of those 4 weeks of suctioning, then 6 weeks later start the process over again sub+prp etc. This alone has shown more improvement than ALL my previous (8) subcision efforts combined.
Ive also seemingly has success with sub+prp+suction with prp injections at 2 weeks post, 6 weeks post and 10 weeks post. Still only 6 total weeks of suctioning FYI. My only hesitance at this method is whatever progress I saw may well have been residual swelling from prp.
Google scholar is our friend, Im essentially combining two studies. One that showed good results from repeated subcision+Intradermal prp sessions and one that showed success from sub+suction, prp 2 weeks post and more injections at monthly intervals for 3 months.
I have literally noticed that my temples are practically cured to the point where Rullan doesnt bother subbing them anymore and each time he goes into my cheeks there seem to be less bands. Also I just look better period.
For reference I have a scar pattern very similar to yours, am Afro Cuban, and am either a very dark fitz IV or light fitz V
Where this method hasnt worked the doctor I saw hadnt done a proper sub. Everything has to be aligned, the sub doesnt have to be from Rullan but it should be someone using his method bi-level under tumescence, they have to be thorough, the bands have to be cut at the fat layer and right beneath the dermis and you have to be religious about suctioning for six weeks. The suctioning should not cause bruising but your skin should raise at least several mm in the tube while doing it. As an aside if you are a smoker you have to stop, slows/prevents healing.
Sorry for the long post but I just hope people like us can find a way out from under this thing.
Definitely don't apologize, that was great info! I'm glad you have had good results from that method it seems intense. I might stick to just Subcision and suctioning for now, something has come up in my family and I can't spare the money for PRP as well.
Ha that was the same reason I jumped on the phenol peel bandwagon, that and wanting at least 40-60% improvement that people seem to get in one go. There were actually supposed to be 4 phenols that day, but I think the 4th person cancelled.
I also still have the mask on. Dr. Rullan gave me the ok to shower and get the face wet today but it didn't come off. I will try to spray some more water on it today, try the shower again tomorrow. But I might have to go back to the office to get it removed. How are you doing on that front? Hope you're recovering well overall.
BTW, have you ever had issues with hypopigmentation after treatments?
Even the doc I see for prp injections in jersey has started using the monthly injections post sub suction method on other patients.
Yeah got the ok to shower today as well, waiting till a bit later in the day.
Never had any hypopigmentation, Ive done his trio many times, not sure what the risk factors are for hypo. I use .05% taz gel regularly to keep acne at bay and use hydroquinone for PIH and to prep for treatments.
Hope you get the results youre looking for. I implore you to Google those studies, its interesting that some of the most forward thinking work on scars is being done outside the US. Both of the studies state explicitly theyre interested in cost effective solutions.
Thanks getsmart. Yes definitely a last step treatment.
Today is day 14 for me. Very early to see any results. Im mostly just posting to show you guys the color of my skin and let you see where Im at. Im both very red and very pale/white at once. The demarcation lines are intense and definitely the most embarrassing and obvious sign of the peel.
My skin still feels extremely tight and sensitive, but the raw feeling is mostly gone. Im having intense itchiness+ irritation on forehead that Im treating with hydrocortisone cream and benadryl Dr Rullan doesnt seem concerned so hopefully it will just go away soon .
Im keeping out of the sun and using the alastin cream + cosrx snail mucin +cerave moisturizer with a little leftover vani ointment on top to seal all the moisture in.
that seems to do the trick for the most part. A few whiteheads have started to appear so thats why im trying to minimize the thick Vaseline and vani ointment and rely more on moisturizers. No pimples yet so hopefully it stays that way.
I had to go out today for the first time and used a light foundation. It gave me back a little color but barely covered redness and didnt cover the demarcation lines at all. Looks kinda patchy but not as bad as I thought it would.
The pictures below where Im deathly white are with bare face and the ones where Im very red are with the light foundation.
I will update in two weeks for the one month update.
Looks good. My thought process is since you had white patches all over. This is going to lighten the whole face a little bit and hence those white patches are not going to stand out plus you will get collagen improvement and youthful skin. Lets hope this maybe an end journey for you.
Here is my experience:
- Week 1-2: Skin looks smooth, but day by day, it returns back to what it originally look like. Feel disappointed.
- Week 3-5: Scars all came back, texture no improvement as well. Very disappointed.
- Week 6-7: Start to see results. Skin is a lot smoother than before the peel. Scars way less noticeable than before. Pores look nice. No other treatment can achieve this. Feel happy and hope the improvement continues.
You will see great results after 6 weeks (I am). Before that, you might feel like not seeing any changes
Here is my experience:
- Week 1-2: Skin looks smooth, but day by day, it returns back to what it originally look like. Feel disappointed.
- Week 3-5: Scars all came back, texture no improvement as well. Very disappointed.
- Week 6-7: Start to see results. Skin is a lot smoother than before the peel. Scars way less noticeable than before. Pores look nice. No other treatment can achieve this. Feel happy and hope the improvement continues.
You will see great results after 6 weeks (I am). Before that, you might feel like not seeing any changes
I'm really happy for you Froyosh! I'm glad you're seeing results and that you're feeling good. That's the most important part, us being comfortable. Thanks for the timeline, that definitely helps.
Definitely so hard to wait for the six week mark but I'm excited. Only four weeks to go.
Looks good. My thought process is since you had white patches all over. This is going to lighten the whole face a little bit and hence those white patches are not going to stand out plus you will get collagen improvement and youthful skin. Lets hope this maybe an end journey for you.
I agree about evening out the complexion. The spottiness makes things look way worse. I don't want to get my hopes up too high but yes, hopefully I'm close to the end.
@sam456 would you still recommend the Taylor subcision? Thinking of going to Dr Emil to have this done
Hi! I've heard great things about Dr. Emil in general so it sounds like a good idea. The Taylor subcision? I definitely feel like the whole Dr. Taylor "one and done" helped me, and smoothed the scar walls(looking back at pictures seems to confirm this). However, it was two lasers + TL subcision + 20% TCA peel in one. I can't be sure which part it was that helped the most or whether they all worked together. Remember that Dr. Taylor uses one laser all over and another to only ablate the scar walls. In my personal opinion, I believe that the laser to the scar walls is what helped the most but I can't be sure.
From what I remember, you have small boxscars like me. What I think helped the most for me for that was the phenol cross/erbium from Dr. Rullan. If I had more time, I would have liked to get 1-2 more phenol cross/erbium before the phenol peel but I was running out of available downtime before the spring.
Hope you're doing well.
Thanks getsmart. Yes definitely a last step treatment.
Today is day 14 for me. Very early to see any results. Im mostly just posting to show you guys the color of my skin and let you see where Im at. Im both very red and very pale/white at once. The demarcation lines are intense and definitely the most embarrassing and obvious sign of the peel.
My skin still feels extremely tight and sensitive, but the raw feeling is mostly gone. Im having intense itchiness+ irritation on forehead that Im treating with hydrocortisone cream and benadryl Dr Rullan doesnt seem concerned so hopefully it will just go away soon .
Im keeping out of the sun and using the alastin cream + cosrx snail mucin +cerave moisturizer with a little leftover vani ointment on top to seal all the moisture in.
that seems to do the trick for the most part. A few whiteheads have started to appear so thats why im trying to minimize the thick Vaseline and vani ointment and rely more on moisturizers. No pimples yet so hopefully it stays that way.
I had to go out today for the first time and used a light foundation. It gave me back a little color but barely covered redness and didnt cover the demarcation lines at all. Looks kinda patchy but not as bad as I thought it would.
The pictures below where Im deathly white are with bare face and the ones where Im very red are with the light foundation.
I will update in two weeks for the one month update.
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Your skin looks really good thus far! Thank you for showing what your skin looks like with makeup at day 14. I will be doing the peel later this year and am very worried about the redness. I am anticipating that I can only hide out completely for about 3 weeks max after the peel.