This may be a twisted logic but it appears that every doctor claims that they can improve every acne scar there is. For example fractional laser claims that 50% improvement is an average result. So if maths checks out
1st treatment: 50% left
2nd treatment: 25% left
3rd treatment: 12.5% left
4th treatment: 6.25% left
5th treatment: 3.125% left
6th treatment : 1.5625% left
For these treatments I have been quoted 2500 each so therefore 6x2500= 15,000 for the full course. However due to dismissing marginal returns the average return by 6 treatments is 16.4%, but in contrast 4 is 23.4375 per treatment. Obviously this is all subjective but I promise you there is always hope I haven't started my journey but i dream of looking like every one else. Also what would people recommend for getting a rid of pink scar tissue on the face.
11 minutes ago, Scarsmakemewanttodie said:This may be a twisted logic but it appears that every doctor claims that they can improve every acne scar there is. For example fractional laser claims that 50% improvement is an average result. So if maths checks out
1st treatment: 50% left
2nd treatment: 25% left
3rd treatment: 12.5% left
4th treatment: 6.25% left
5th treatment: 3.125% left
6th treatment : 1.5625% left
For these treatments I have been quoted 2500 each so therefore 6x2500= 15,000 for the full course. However due to dismissing marginal returns the average return by 6 treatments is 16.4%, but in contrast 4 is 23.4375 per treatment. Obviously this is all subjective but I promise you there is always hope I haven't started my journey but i dream of looking like every one else. Also what would people recommend for getting a rid of pink scar tissue on the face.
It's impossible to have baby smooth skin with the current scartreatments out there. Moreover, laser is not the go to treatment.
3 hours ago, JaysonC said:It's impossible to have baby smooth skin with the current scartreatments out there. Moreover, laser is not the go to treatment.
I disagree with this. The OP didn't mention what scars he has and you know that it's difficult to generalize about the treatment without context.
Laser has worked for me so I will always mention it as an option provided that the patient has the right scar type.
2 hours ago, Scarsmakemewanttodie said:What would you recommend for some one with deep boxcar scars, linear scars and rolling scars
Pictures would help.
Lasers helped me with those but I don't know if mine were worse than yours. People usually do subcision and/or fillers for rolling scars. For boxcar scars, if they are narrow, Cross would be a consideration. I've had lasers help my boxcar scars but they were more mild to moderate. Linear scars... thin?
4 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:I disagree with this. The OP didn't mention what scars he has and you know that it's difficult to generalize about the treatment without context.
Laser has worked for me so I will always mention it as an option provided that the patient has the right scar type.
Pictures would help.
Lasers helped me with those but I don't know if mine were worse than yours. People usually do subcision and/or fillers for rolling scars. For boxcar scars, if they are narrow, Cross would be a consideration. I've had lasers help my boxcar scars but they were more mild to moderate. Linear scars... thin?
Ok but unless the scars are very superficial no matter what you get done, it's never going to remove them completely. There will always be a slight indentation. I am not against lasers but the improvement from lasers isn't significant and there are limitations for darker skin types. The OPdid mentiondeep scars.
Laser isn't usually the first treatment as the OP described their options,at least not laser alone. Most doctors combine it with subcision or tca cross.
The doctors who are experienced in scars that is like Lim.
There are also many derms who will tell you 3 fractional lasers will remove your scars but they are selling you false hopes.
4 minutes ago, JaysonC said:Ok but unless the scars are very superficial no matter what you get done, it's never going to remove them completely. There will always be a slight indentation. I am not against lasers but the improvement from lasers isn't significant and there are limitations for darker skin types. The OPdid mentiondeep scars.
Laser isn't usually the first treatment as the OP described their options,at least not laser alone. Most doctors combine it with subcision or tca cross.
NO treatment is going to erase scars. This applies to every treatment so I think your post unfairly targets lasers in this regard.
Have you had laser treatments before? I've gotten fractional CO2, Erbium, and different non-ablative ones. Fractional CO2 was the only one I saw noticeable results from. You say improvement is not significant but it was significant enough for me to get it done several times again and significant enough for me to not have to treat several of my bigger scars even after one treatment. When I say moderate-mild scars - maybe this is considered deep to people. We all have different lenses of judging how deep our scars are. If the OP has deep scars, maybe lasers could make them moderate. That might be a good grade of improvement for the patient.
Sure, more and more people here and doctors such as Benham advocate for manual methods first and then laser treatments. I understand that logic as lasers are invasive and carry more risks. But I've told some people that if they have downtime, go for lasers because the downtime is real. People may suffer from PIE/PIH so if they have weeks or months to look discolored, they should seize the opportunity. Taking time off work/school can be a prohibiting factor down the road so if people want to do laser first, have at it. It might help some of their scars.
Do most doctors combine laser with subcision and Cross? Where are you getting your information? Some doctors do but I would not say most.
I'm not pushing for lasers. Rather, I'm defending them because I do think it can help people as it has helped me. Lasers have RISKS and I suffered some side effects including new scars, but to say that they offer little improvement is inaccurate. Lasers can offer 0 improvement to one patient but much more to another. In all honesty, we have no idea. Results depend on the type and depth of scars, the device or application, the doctor, how a person heals, etc. It's extremely difficult to have all of these variables consistent enough for us to make blanket statements.
38 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:NO treatment is going to erase scars. This applies to every treatment so I think your post unfairly targets lasers in this regard.
Have you had laser treatments before? I've gotten fractional CO2, Erbium, and different non-ablative ones. Fractional CO2 was the only one I saw noticeable results from. You say improvement is not significant but it was significant enough for me to get it done several times again and significant enough for me to not have to treat several of my bigger scars even after one treatment. When I say moderate-mild scars - maybe this is considered deep to people. We all have different lenses of judging how deep our scars are. If the OP has deep scars, maybe lasers could make them moderate. That might be a good grade of improvement for the patient.
Sure, more and more people here and doctors such as Benham advocate for manual methods first and then laser treatments. I understand that logic as lasers are invasive and carry more risks. But I've told some people that if they have downtime, go for lasers because the downtime is real. People may suffer from PIE/PIH so if they have weeks or months to look discolored, they should seize the opportunity. Taking time off work/school can be a prohibiting factor down the road so if people want to do laser first, have at it. It might help some of their scars.
Do most doctors combine laser with subcision and Cross? Where are you getting your information? Some doctors do but I would not say most.
I'm not pushing for lasers. Rather, I'm defending them because I do think it can help people as it has helped me. Lasers have RISKS and I suffered some side effects including new scars, but to say that they offer little improvement is inaccurate. Lasers can offer 0 improvement to one patient but much more to another. In all honesty, we have no idea. Results depend on the type and depth of scars, the device or application, the doctor, how a person heals, etc. It's extremely difficult to have all of these variables consistent enough for us to make blanket statements.
I am not against lasers at all. Just cautioning the OP that scar improvement doesn't go the way they described % wise and not with fractional laser only and as a first choice. Doctors usually combine because most rolling and boxcars are to some degree tethered and need subcision w/o filler first. All drs that I follow recommend it Dr H, Dr Lim, Dr Rullan. Yes I have had 3 lasers at the beginning and they alone didn't do anything for my scars. Most of the people here don't have life changing results from lasers, report small improvements.
There isn't a wow before/ after after laser treatments at least I haven't seen such photos. The most vocal proponents of lasers here have no photos to show or they show photos in the healing stage when there's clearly still swelling going on and the newbies to treatments are like wow, what amazing results. Sure there are people, whose skin improved but they have had many combination treatments with sub fillers tca phenol cross etc.
20 minutes ago, JaysonC said:I am not against lasers at all. Just cautioning the OP that scar improvement doesn't go the way they described % wise and not with fractional laser only and as a first choice. Doctors usually combine because most rolling and boxcars are to some degree tethered and need subcision w/o filler first. All drs that I follow recommend it Dr H, Dr Lim, Dr Rullan. Yes I have had 3 lasers at the beginning and they alone didn't do anything for my scars. Most of the people here don't have life changing results from lasers, report small improvements
Most of the time, all of the treatments will disappoint. In terms of success, I bet all treatments combine for a 15-25% winning percentage. This is purely a guess.
OP, how did you arrive at 50% improvementfor any treatment?? For lasers, this doesn't apply to any treatment. Lower it to 10-15% and you will be closer to reality. You need more than one source when it comes to scar advice. So many doctors don't know what they are doing, and some of the ones that do will exaggerate to get your money.
If you don't describe your scars or post pictures, you need to see a qualified doctor and we'll send good luck your way. It's too hard to suggest treatments for you without knowing your scar types.
4 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:Most of the time, all of the treatments will disappoint. In terms of success, I bet all treatments combine for a 15-25% winning percentage. This is purely a guess.
OP, how did you arrive at 50% improvementfor any treatment?? For lasers, this doesn't apply to any treatment. Lower it to 10-15% and you will be closer to reality. You need more than one source when it comes to scar advice. So many doctors don't know what they are doing, and some of the ones that do will exaggerate to get your money.
If you don't describe your scars or post pictures, you need to see a qualified doctor and we'll send good luck your way. It's too hard to suggest treatments for you without knowing your scar types.
That's a more realistic percentage which shouldn't discourage us from treatments because as you said there are many factors. I don't want to be negative just realistic. When you see there is actually nothing that can give you substantial improvement, it hits you hard! Even the success stories on the forum are not quite success stories, peopledisappear, or need to inject fillers on a permanent basis.
If I have to guess the OP got the 50% from their deceiving doctor. I was also told the fractional laser will solve my scarring issues. I was so happy back then thinking the laser will work like magic, how naive I've been, how little did I know about scars!
20 minutes ago, JaysonC said:That's a more realistic percentage which shouldn't discourage us from treatments because as you said there are many factors. I don't want to be negative just realistic. When you see there is actually nothing that can give you substantial improvement, it hits you hard! Even the success stories on the forum are not quite success stories, peopledisappear, or need to inject fillers on a permanent basis.
If I have to guess the OP got the 50% from their deceiving doctor. I was also told the fractional laser will solve my scarring issues. I was so happy back then thinking the laser will work like magic, how naive I've been, how little did I know about scars!
Sorry, but I still have to disagree with you. I think it's quite misleading to say nothing can give you substantial improvement. If you say most people don't get substantial improvement, that's one thing. To say that nobody does is just plain wrong.
I had a crater scar and a linear scar from excision greatly improved by lasers. I'd say more than 25% (maybe 35%)after one treatment. However, the other 80% of my scars got nowhere close - some didn't see any improvement. This is how I'll best make an analogy. Most people will not see the improvement they desire or expect. But there but be a few who do, which is why people still strive to continue treatments.
If people don't understand this, too bad for them. Unfortunately, its not worth the money for lots of you. We can tell you to keep trying and trying but it's easier for us to tell you because we don't have anything to lose. The reality is that these treatments work. Sometimes it takes longer for some to see results and some may not see results (due to location, choice of doctors, scar types, financial limitations, etc.). But if it works for some people, it gives others hope. The rest need to realize that this is like the fine print you see in commercials - it can work............. doesn't mean it works for everyone.
3 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:Sorry, but I still have to disagree with you. I think it's quite misleading to say nothing can give you substantial improvement. If you say most people don't get substantial improvement, that's one thing. To say that nobody does is just plain wrong.
I had a crater scar and a linear scar from excision greatly improved by lasers. I'd say more than 25% (maybe 35%)after one treatment. However, the other 80% got nowhere close - some didn't see any improvement. This is how I'll best make an analogy. Most people will not see the improvement they desire or expect. But there but be a few who do, which is why people still strive to continue treatments.
If people don't understand this, too bad for them. Unfortunately, its not worth the money for lots of you. We can tell you to keep trying and trying but it's easier for us to tell you because we don't have anything to lose. The reality is that these treatments work. Sometimes it takes longer for some to see results and some may not see results (due to location, choice of doctors, scar types, financial limitations, etc.). But if it works for some people, it gives others hope. The rest need to realize that this is like the fine print you see in commercials - it can work............. doesn't mean it works for everyone.
Ok. Agree to disagree
If you say substantial improvement is possible be concrete. Show me photos or point me to a person or a doctor that achieved substantial improvement defined as let's say 80% or dramatic visible result (fresh scars excluded). From ANY treatment not just lasers. I haven't seen such improvement either on the forum or on the internet. People get 10+ treaments and still have their scars and feel bad about them. Show me something dramatic, give us all hope!
15 hours ago, JaysonC said:Ok. Agree to disagree
If you say substantial improvement is possible be concrete. Show me photos or point me to a person or a doctor that achieved substantial improvement defined as let's say 80% or dramatic visible result (fresh scars excluded). From ANY treatment not just lasers. I haven't seen such improvement either on the forum or on the internet. People get 10+ treaments and still have their scars and feel bad about them. Show me something dramatic, give us all hope!
Why do you say fresh scars excluded? Can fresh scars be improved more? And what do you define as fresh>?
15 minutes ago, JaysonC said:Fresh scars3-6months 'old' can be very much improved. Dramatically. To the point of having close to no scars at all.
Interesting , the scars Im trying to heal are in this category please see thread
and let me know if you think Im on the right path with subcision infini and PRP , I had only 1 treatment last Friday. Im also young, (25) , active and taking hghpeptides to stimulate collagen
15 minutes ago, Ndwscar said:Interesting , the scars Im trying to heal are in this category please see thread
and let me know if you think Im on the right path with subcision infini and PRP , I had only 1 treatment last Friday. Im also young, (25) , active and taking hghpeptides to stimulate collagen
If your scars are a few months old, the chances are good that you might be able to correct them. Your plan sounds good, you might consider filler along with subcision to build some dermal matrix and laser instead of infini, but it's a good combo for fresh scars. Infini usually can help with fresh scars.
3 minutes ago, JaysonC said:If your scars are a few months old, the chances are good that you might be able to correct them. Your plan sounds good, you might consider filler along with subcision to build some dermal matrix and laser instead of infini, but it's a good combo for fresh scars. Infini usually can help with fresh scars.
Thanks , the reason I didnt want to do aggressive laser is cus its on my neck and Im on low dose accutane (10mg every other day) , and I heard filler on neck can result in lumpiness cus of powerful muscle