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What does that even mean? How is that even possible? He says he goes under the scars with lasers to eliminate them but I'm not sure how that's possible if scars reach the dermal layer which doesn't replace itself no matter what. How is a laser supposed to create a smooth surface then? It's not like it can renew the dermis... I'm just still so confused about the capabilities of lasers and not confident that they truly help unless you lift the scars by other means...and then by that point, what's the need for lasers?
1 hour ago, LivingWithFaith said:What does that even mean? How is that even possible? He says he goes under the scars with lasers to eliminate them but I'm not sure how that's possible if scars reach the dermal layer which doesn't replace itself no matter what. How is a laser supposed to create a smooth surface then? It's not like it can renew the dermis... I'm just still so confused about the capabilities of lasers and not confident that they truly help unless you lift the scars by other means...and then by that point, what's the need for lasers?
In all honesty, I don't really pay attention to the science. I just look at before and after pictures and go by whether or not my scars improved. For example, fractional CO2 made some of my scars flatter (more level with the surrounding skin) so I know that laser treatment works for boxcar scars. I tried subcision and it didn't work. It's as simple as that for me.
22 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:In all honesty, I don't really pay attention to the science. I just look at before and after pictures and go by whether or not my scars improved. For example, fractional CO2 made some of my scars flatter (more level with the surrounding skin) so I know that laser treatment works for boxcar scars. I tried subcision and it didn't work. It's as simple as that for me.
That is very fair. Though before and after pics are often inconsistent in angles and lighting even with some of these top scar "experts", Dr. Lim included, so it's hard to trust them. It's really not hard to reproduce the same angle and light so there's no excuse on that. I agree that the best way to measure a doctor's skill is on yourself and maybe seeking opinions from people who have received treatment from that doctor before.
It's hard not to pay attention to the science though when what some of these specialists say contradicts it. How is a laser supposed to eliminatea scar that's embedded into the dermis? The most it can do is trigger collagen production but that takes months and months to see and improvement is usually modest at best.
30 minutes ago, can i get a new life please said:I think with lasers he cant do shit with deep scars. He likes to exaggrate things, dont get lasers until scars became shallow and looks like texture issues.
He exaggerates a lot. The field of acne scar revision can be very lucrative considering how niche it is since majoritydermatologists don't want to touch moderate to severe cases with a ten foot pole and the few that do can get away with charging thousands for simple treatments since they know how desperate we are to feel human. So Lim gets to make him self out to be some sort of guru even though the main thing he seems to be an expert on is manipulating camera angles and lighting. It all just seems performative at this point. You'd think there'd be more glowing reviews on him if he was truly achieving results.
9 minutes ago, LivingWithFaith said:That is very fair. Though before and after pics are often inconsistent in angles and lighting even with some of these top scar "experts", Dr. Lim included, so it's hard to trust them. It's really not hard to reproduce the same angle and light so there's no excuse on that. I agree that the best way to measure a doctor's skill is on yourself and maybe seeking opinions from people who have received treatment from that doctor before.
It's hard not to pay attention to the science though when what some of these specialists say contradicts it. How is a laser supposed to eliminatea scar that's embedded into the dermis? The most it can do is trigger collagen production but that takes months and months to see and improvement is usually modest at best.
He exaggerates a lot. The field of acne scar revision can be very lucrative considering how niche it is since majoritydermatologists don't want to touch moderate to severe cases with a ten foot pole and the few that do can get away with charging thousands for simple treatments since they know how desperate we are to feel human. So Lim gets to make him self out to be some sort of guru even though the main thing he seems to be an expert on is manipulating camera angles and lighting. It all just seems performative at this point. You'd think there'd be more glowing reviews on him if he was truly achieving results.
If you go by pictures from doctors, you have to expect that they upload their best results. These results are not typical and most people should not expect that level of improvement. In addition, some practices use photos from the device manufacturer or from other offices.
I prefer seeing pictures provided by patients but those are harder to come by.
10 minutes ago, can i get a new life please said:Yeah Lim is not different than other doctors. i like bald guy Emil more than Lim cause he doesnt talk and exaggrate much, also Lim has full of fake rewievs. I think the website he use (realself) doesn't allow all bad rewievs about him.
I agree. Something about Emil seems the most genuine out of all these "experts". If I could do things all over again, I would probably invest in traveling to see him. I like the results he gets even with simple TCA. He's also not showy and I get the feeling he's just "no bullshit" in general when it comes to what you can expect. I've heard a few bad things about him but no derm is perfect. I hear he at least goes out of his way to correct things rather than avoid blame.
3 hours ago, LivingWithFaith said:What does that even mean? How is that even possible? He says he goes under the scars with lasers to eliminate them but I'm not sure how that's possible if scars reach the dermal layer which doesn't replace itself no matter what. How is a laser supposed to create a smooth surface then? It's not like it can renew the dermis... I'm just still so confused about the capabilities of lasers and not confident that they truly help unless you lift the scars by other means...and then by that point, what's the need for lasers?
I'm no expert but I think he means he has to reach the base of the scar and evaporate it fractionally with the laser. Problem is not every laser (or doctor)can reach scars in the deeper skin without causing too much damage to surrounding tissue including fat which is most important to prevent the dreaded fat loss.
I follow dr Lim on both his profiles and learn a lot about scars and good skin care in general. But I do wish he posted better photos. As soon as I read 'redness is going to resolvein the coming months' I'm thinking 'Mate, wait till the result is permanent and then shoot the photos'. One thing - post op swelling, lasting for monthS after co2!
6 minutes ago, JaysonC said:I'm no expert but I think he means he has to reach the base of the scar and evaporate it fractionally with the laser. Problem is not every laser (or doctor)can reach scars in the deeper skin without causing too much damage to surrounding tissue including fat which is most important to prevent the dreaded fat loss.
But how do you evaporate the base of a scar or any part of a scar?It's in the dermis of the skin which does not replenish like the epidermis does. Lasers are basically controlledinjuriesto the skin, so if he's blasting the laser to the dermis layer, he's technicallycausing more damage to the dermis on top of the existing scars. How is this supposed to make the scar better or bring it to the surface? This may work for more shallow scars that are practically on the top layer of the skin, but I don't see how you can get "under" the deeper scars. I'm no skin expert either, but from what Idoknow, something is not adding up and I wish they would just be honest.
15 minutes ago, LivingWithFaith said:But how do you evaporate the base of a scar or any type of scar?It's in the dermis of the skin which does not replenish like the epidermis does. Lasers are basically controlledinjuriesto the skin, so if he's blasting the laser to the dermis layer, he's technicallycausing more damage to the dermis on top of the existing scars. How is this supposed to make the scar better or bring it to the surface? This may work for more shallow scars that are practically on the top layer of the skin, but I don't see how you can get "under" the deeper scars. I'm no skin expert either, but from what Idoknow, something is not adding up and I wish they would just be honest.
I am just wild guessing here based on what I have read and what I can imagine it could be happening but in order to remove a scar, you need to remove it in the deeper layer where it 'sits'. If the scar sits in the deepest layer and your laser can only reach the middle layer, the treatment is not going to be a success..
I wrote evaporate because all co2 lasers target water in the skin so they work by 'evaporating' skin/skin tissue in fractional columns ,a few % of skin at a time, if you get fractional, or the whole skin surface with full ablation. So with every fractional laser you get, you evaporate part of the scar, causing an injury which then heals and stimulates collagen. At least that's how I see things haha Anyone more knowedgeable feel free to correct me if I got something wrong. I think by "under the scar" he means to reach it in the first place and better yet to go deeper than where the scar 'sits'. Somebody ask Lim for an explanation haha I'm curious too.
11 minutes ago, JaysonC said:I am just wild guessing here based on what I have read and what I can imagine it could be happening but in order to remove a scar, you need to remove it in the deeper layer where it 'sits'. If the scar sits in the deepest layer and your laser can only reach the middle layer, the treatment is not going to be a success..
I wrote evaporate because all co2 lasers target water in the skin so they work by 'evaporating' skin/skin tissue a few % of skin at a time, if you get fractional, or the whole skin surface with full ablation. So with every fractional laser you get, you evaporate part of the scar, causing an injury which then heals and stimulates collagen. At least that's how I see things haha Anyone more knowedgeable feel free to correct me if I got something wrong.
In theory, that makessomesense, but in order for the surface of the skin to look smooth or fairly normal, the dermis has to be mostly intact. These co2 lasers may evaporate tissue, but how is it supposed improve the dermis layer? When it comes to the dermis, you can only take away from it, these lasers don't add to it, so I don't get how they can evaporate scars and leave the skin looking almost as good as new at best.
I think lasers are excellent for on the surface issues like moles, birthmarks, pigmentation issues, etc, but for scars, they are not, and I wish the dermatology field would quit perpetuating that. Lim himself says scars need to be lifted as much as possible, but by that point, why would you need to risk the damage of lasers if your scars are nearly completely lifted?
1 hour ago, LivingWithFaith said:In theory, that makessomesense, but in order for the surface of the skin to look smooth or fairly normal, the dermis has to be mostly intact. These co2 lasers may evaporate tissue, but how is it supposed improve the dermis layer? When it comes to the dermis, you can only take away from it, these lasers don't add to it, so I don't get how they can evaporate scars and leave the skin looking almost as good as new at best.
I think lasers are excellent for on the surface issues like moles, birthmarks, pigmentation issues, etc, but for scars, they are not, and I wish the dermatology field would quit perpetuating that. Lim himself says scars need to be lifted as much as possible, but by that point, why would you need to risk the damage of lasers if your scars are nearly completely lifted?
Lasers improve the dermis by causing aninjury which then heals just like every other scar treatment.
7 minutes ago, can i get a new life please said:No one will be happy about results those who got deep scars with lasers. He is trying to find new things to say for impressing people and give them a false hope.
Problem is even the most powerful lasers can give only small improvement with one treatment.Does Limexagerate results? Probably. Does he havemore experience with treating scars than 95% of all derms and know what he's talking about? Also probably.
3 minutes ago, can i get a new life please said:Yeah he has more experience for sure, i though he was referring deep scars when he saying he goes "under the scar".
Not necessarily. He's just saying that he needs to go under the scar to treat it. It can be shallow scars as well. It's logical. He can only affect the scars which he can reach in their whole length and extent.
Deeper scars in the deep dermisare difficult to treat "under" without serious risk of complications. Under them is the fat. You know what can happen if the fat gets melted by the laser's heat damage.
28 minutes ago, can i get a new life please said:Yeah thats why i hesitate to do treatments that generate heat.
Yes I've talked to doctors about it. That's why they love subcision so much cause it can go under the scar and stimulate collagen deep within the skin without the heat risk.
3 hours ago, JaysonC said:Problem is even the most powerful lasers can give only small improvement with one treatment.Does Limexagerate results? Probably. Does he havemore experience with treating scars than 95% of all derms and know what he's talking about? Also probably.
This literally means nothing when he's not producing the results he claims he can. He may spend more time studying and treating scars than the average derm, but it means nothing if there are no results. That puts him where all the other doctors are.Where is the overwhelming evidence of his skills considering patients all around the world come to see him? Seems to be more complaints than anything.Literally so hard to find decent reviews on him except the potentially altered photos he publishes himself.
I'm also sick of Lim showing scar revision on just type 1 and type 2. Majority of the world does not have fair skin so why does most of his featured work focus on light skin types? Ethnic people scar too. You're not a true expert if you can't also do scar revision on darker tones beyond microneedling or some other useless method. Though Dr. Hazany is supposedly insanely expensive, he'sproduced great results on dark skin (type 5-6) with video evidence. Not trying to pay his prices though.
18 minutes ago, LivingWithFaith said:This literally means nothing when he's not producing the results he claims he can. He may spend more time studying and treating scars than the average derm, but it means nothing if there are no results. That puts him where all the other doctors are.Where is the overwhelming evidence of his skills considering patients all around the world come to see him? Seems to be more complaints than anything.Literally so hard to find decent reviews on him except the potentially altered photos he publishes himself.
I'm also sick of Lim showing scar revision on just type 1 and type 2. Majority of the world does not have fair skin so why does most of his featured work focus on light skin types? Ethnic people scar too. You're not a true expert if you can't also do scar revision on darker tones beyond microneedling or some other useless method. Though Dr. Hazany is supposedly insanely expensive, he'sproduced great results on dark skin (type 5-6) with video evidence. Not trying to pay his prices though.
Hazany puts filler in and takes the after photo
Fair skin, ethnic skin it doesn't matter much because no scar treatment gives significant results. The great improvement we see is mostly on fresh scars.
What you can do is find a good doctor get the treatments which are considered the best like subcision with filler,phenol cross, rfm or laser, excision. Get the improvement you can get and move on. That's it.
Agree and these self crowned 1% scar doctors really piss me off with their unrealistic expectations. These doctors are liars, and they are overpromoting their treatments, they also have fake accounts all over on this Website, its really disgusting. Dr. Lim also has a reputition Marketing Company thats hiding his bad reviews. Then there was BA that did defend the self crowned 1% doctors so he can make money with them. Then he says that he doesnt work with these doctors but he did.This whole industry is f***ed up. Only liars. Its so sad really it shows that Lim is actually a really bad doctor, look at the google reviews of his first clinic, these reviews are really bad. I had a treatment with dr.Emil and got a lump thats really bothering me and it did cause mental stress for over a year to deal with that, but at least he did offer me free treatments to get rid of my problem, credits for that. But Im really no fan of Lim and his behavior. Emil seems to be at least caring doctor.
1 hour ago, JaysonC said:Hazany puts filler in and takes the after photo
Fair skin, ethnic skin it doesn't matter much because no scar treatment gives significant results. The great improvement we see is mostly on fresh scars.
What you can do is find a good doctor get the treatments which are considered the best like subcision with filler,phenol cross, rfm or laser, excision. Get the improvement you can get and move on. That's it.
What is so wrong with filler though? Lim uses filler too.
Sometimes you have to accept that a huge chunk of collagen is GONE from your face and will likely never fully replenish itself within your lifetime. That's where filler comes in. It's not a bad thing. It's a form of acne scar treatment and the results looked nice on that type 6 woman he showed. She'll likely have to top up maybe once or twice a year but it's better than having craters on your face.
Where are those darker skin tone examples of acne scar revisionon Dr. Lim's page? I think I've seen ONE but the lighting of course was way brighter than the after and even then, results were underwhelming.
And yes, I'm aware that it's best to find a doctor who's well versed in traditional, manual methods. That's the only way to get any improvement. Lasers don't have much of a place in acne scar revision unless it's the raised kind, but that's just my opinion.
10 minutes ago, Jason2121 said:Agree and these self crowned 1% scar doctors really piss me off with their unrealistic expectations. These doctors are liars, and they are overpromoting their treatments, they also have fake accounts all over on this Website, its really disgusting. Dr. Lim also has a reputition Marketing Company thats hiding his bad reviews. Then there was BA that did defend the self crowned 1% doctors so he can make money with them. Then he says that he doesnt work with these doctors but he did.This whole industry is f***ed up. Only liars. Its so sad really it shows that Lim is actually a really bad doctor, look at the google reviews of his first clinic, these reviews are really bad. I had a treatment with dr.Emil and got a lump thats really bothering me and it did cause mental stress for over a year to deal with that, but at least he did offer me free treatments to get rid of my problem, credits for that. But Im really no fan of Lim and his behavior. Emil seems to be at least caring doctor.
Thank you. They should all be ashamed of themselves. Capitalizing on those of us who are psychologically damaged beyond repair because of these acne scars. As if doctors don't make enough moneydoing other procedures, they have to prey on acne scar patients and squeeze every last dime out of us with no guaranteed results. It's disgusting and a sad commentary on the dermatology field. It's bad enough having acne scars, but then we also have to go broke paying for all these treatments that give no results. It sucks having this problem and being at the mercy of these money grabbing conmen.
8 minutes ago, LivingWithFaith said:What is so wrong with filler though? Lim uses filler too.
Sometimes you have to accept that a huge chunk of collagen is GONE from your face and will likely never fully replenish itself within your lifetime. That's where filler comes in. It's not a bad thing. It's a form of acne scar treatment and the results looked nice on that type 6 woman he showed. She'll likely have to top up maybe once or twice a year but it's better than having craters on your face.
Where are those darker skin tone examples of acne scar revisionon Dr. Lim's page? I think I've seen ONE but the lighting of course was way brighter than the after and even then, results were underwhelming.
And yes, I'm aware that it's best to find a doctor who's well versed in traditional, manual methods. That's the only way to get any improvement. Lasers don't have much of a place in acne scar revision unless it's the raised kind, but that's just my opinion.
In my opinion Manual methods like subcision and TCA are overpromoted, I didnt see anyone with really good results from Subcision. I think that Lim knows that not a lot of doctors perform subcision and he did overpromote it as the treatment to go to build a monopoly. But Im factsub alone doesnt delivergood results. It creates a lot of problems, I know a lot of people that got lumps from Subcision and doctors likelim say it is super easy to treat, but it isnt. They also like to say that these lumps are all kind of things but its mostly scarring or fibrous tissue.
5 minutes ago, LivingWithFaith said:What is so wrong with filler though? Lim uses filler too.
Sometimes you have to accept that a huge chunk of collagen is GONE from your face and will likely never fully replenish itself within your lifetime. That's where filler comes in. It's not a bad thing. It's a form of acne scar treatment and the results looked nice on that type 6 woman he showed. She'll likely have to top up maybe once or twice a year but it's better than having craters on your face.
Where are those darker skin tone examples of acne scar revisionon Dr. Lim's page? I think I've seen ONE but the lighting of course was way brighter than the after and even then, results were underwhelming.
And yes, I'm aware that it's best to find a doctor who's well versed in traditional, manual methods. That's the only way to get any improvement. Lasers don't have much of a place in acne scar revision unless it's the raised kind, but that's just my opinion.
Look I am not defending Lim, I am not. But he has knowledge and experience with treating scars. Just don't expect miracles. All derms are exaggerating, even the best ones.
If Hazany states openly he's achieved the result with a filler there's nothing wrong..But he doesn't. Instead he makes you believe 95% is possible because he's the top of the top dr both derm and surgeon who applies unheard of before techniques. It's a scam.
Many people new to scar treatments will believe him, some might blow their whole budget on him and be bitterly bitterly disappointed later as the 70% drops to 15%.
2 minutes ago, Jason2121 said:In my opinion Manual methods like subcision and TCA are overpromoted, I didnt see anyone with really good results from Subcision. I think that Lim knows that not a lot of doctors perform subcision and he did overpromote it as the treatment to go to build a monopoly. But Im factsub alone doesnt delivergood results. It creates a lot of problems, I know a lot of people that got lumps from Subcision and doctors like lim it is super easy to treat, but it isnt. They also like to say that these lumps are all kind of things but its mostly scarring or fibrous tissue.
Exactly. It's all just lies. For the most part, I regret embarking on acne scar revision all together. It's made my skin worse in the end. That time could've been better spent just enjoying my life despite the scars. The money could've gone towards travel or some other self enrichment. I would've been much better off just working on self acceptance. Now my skin is worse and I have even more heightened insecurities due to these greedy doctors and their false promises. I have absolutely nothing to show for any of this.
6 minutes ago, LivingWithFaith said:Exactly. It's all just lies. For the most part, I regret embarking on acne scar revision all together. It's made my skin worse in the end. That time could've been better spent just enjoying my life despite the scars. The money could've gone towards travel or some other self enrichment. I would've been much better off just working on self acceptance. Now my skin is worse and I have even more heightened insecurities due to these greedy doctors and their false promises. I have absolutely nothing to show for any of this.
Yeah, couldnt they just invent a cream that doesnt work and doesnt do more damage, I wouldbe finde with that. What kind of treatments did you have and who did treat you ? And what kind of problems occur ?
my lump is also bothering me, it has a huge impact on my mental health, like right now I have to get shit done but I cant because I have to think about my lump that worsenpart of my face, I think these doctors dont know sometimes what they are doing to us. I wouldnt mind to pay money and have no results but making my skin worse for a certain amount of money is really fucked up shit.
We all know we are desperate to get rid if our scars and will spend everything we can afford on treatments which will probably bring little improvement and on docs who aremisrepesenting their results. It's either that or doing nothing, living with the uncorrected scars. We seldom choose the second option.
31 minutes ago, LivingWithFaith said:Capitalizing on those of us who are psychologically damaged beyond repair because of these acne scars. As if doctors don't make enough moneydoing other procedures, they have to prey on acne scar patients and squeeze every last dime out of us with no guaranteed results. It's disgusting and a sad commentary on the dermatology field. It's bad enough having acne scars, but then we also have to go broke paying for all these treatments that give no results. It sucks having this problem and being at the mercy of these money grabbing conmen.
I do believe that acne scar treatments should be covered by the insurance not because I am "cheap" or not able to afford private treatments. Acne hits you at the most vulnerable age and the psychological pain from having acne and permanent scars can mess your whole development and life up, even if the objective scars are mild. It's not just a cosmetic problem for the scar sufferer. It's not the same as for the ageing mid 40es lady pining over her lost youth who wants to get filler and laser treatment ( not that there is something wrong with that).
And given the small improvement the scar treatments bring, combined with the big risk of worsening the skin, it's a shame drs charge thousands of $ for 1 treatment especially when they know multiple are necessary to see even the least noticeable improvement.