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Before I even open my mouth, that's the first thing they recommend even though they have no firsthand proof that it's truly effective. No before and after pictures of their actual patients to be found. So why do they push it so hard to darker people? Sure it's safer than lasers, but it's not going to solve all our problems especially if you have different types of scarring. Are they just trying to pay off these machines or are they being endorsed by certain RF device brands? I'm so sick of paying all this money on these consultations just to hear the same speech about benefits of RF MN. It's getting to the point where I avoid facilities that offer this service.
I agree personally I have seen little microneedling works not much maybe rf is a bit superior since it adds heat to it. But I havent seen much positive on this forum, I havent tried it though. Weiner says the heat time should be low whereas hold time inside skin should be higher. Again dont know if it works in the long run though
34 minutes ago, getsmart121 said:I agree personally I have seen little microneedling works not much maybe rf is a bit superior since it adds heat to it. But I havent seen much positive on this forum, I havent tried it though. Weiner says the heat time should be low whereas hold time inside skin should be higher. Again dont know if it works in the long run though
Absolutely no one knows, but let them tell it, it will solve all our problems. It's just yet another product that's trending right now like Fraxel used to. I wonder what crap they'll come up with next to give us false hope.
11 hours ago, LivingWithFaith said:Before I even open my mouth, that's the first thing they recommend even though they have no firsthand proof that it's truly effective. No before and after pictures of their actual patients to be found. So why do they push it so hard to darker people? Sure it's safer than lasers, but it's not going to solve all our problems especially if you have different types of scarring. Are they just trying to pay off these machines or are they being endorsed by certain RF device brands? I'm so sick of paying all this money on these consultations just to hear the same speech about benefits of RF MN. It's getting to the point where I avoid facilities that offer this service.
Yeah it's like their new mantra. Rfm for darker skin for boxcar and rolling scars. Some even suggest it for ice-picks instead of tca cross. Insane! The doctors promote rfm as a safer alternative to lasers in dark skin types but they forget to warn you that any form of energy device used at high settings can cause additionalscarring. I've had 2 Genius treatments with settings usually twice as high as the average scar sufferer gets and I got maybe like 20% improvement alongside with new scars. And 20% is optimistically speaking. It's almost like I want to believe there was some improvement. Some times I see the scars a liittle bit flatter, other times I think nothing changed. Just some rejuvenating effect and skin tightening.
Cosmetic doctors want to make money, and make lots of it. I don't blame them up to a certain point, but greed is part of the industry despite their wanting to be doctors and helping people first.
For RFM, I'm sure they will see the best before and after photos and then say that this will be the case for everyone. I haven't heard many glowing reviews about this procedure, but somesay it works and I do believe it works for a small portion of people. There are no guarantees with any treatment so why should this be different? If you have the money to spend/waste, go try it. I personally think Cross, subcision, and fractional CO2 lasers are the best for the different types of scars but everyone has his/her own choice. The safer routes are TCA peels, RFM/manual microneedling, non-ablative lasers, etc. but those are not for me.
I think some doctors are reluctant to use lasers because of the risks, especially hyperpigmentation and erythema, associated with them. It takes months for my laser side-effects to resolve so it's a big ordeal. Some doctors avoid this altogether. RFM has fewer risks and less downtime. In my opinion, it's also easier to operate.
2 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:I personally think Cross, subcision, and fractional CO2 lasers are the best for the different types of scars but everyone has his/her own choice.
I agree 100%. RFM might work for some people especially if the scars are fresh or I don't know the people respond very well to the treatment but for the majority the results are disappointing. And I cannot understand why doctors use it instead of tca cross for ice picks and small boxcars? Are they lazy or just greedy to charge for the more expensive energy device?Why not combine it with tca cross at least for better and quicker results? RFM can improve ice picks as well but it would take ages, many treatments like 7-8 to see noticeable difference, I've been told.
10 minutes ago, JPK said:I agree 100%. RFM might work for some people especially if the scars are fresh or I don't know the people respond very well to the treatment but for the majority the results are disappointing. And I cannot understand why doctors use it instead of tca cross for ice picks and small boxcars? Are they lazy or just greedy to charge for the more expensive energy device?Why not combine it with tca cross at least for better and quicker results? RFM can improve ice picks as well but it would take ages, many treatments like 7-8 to see noticeable difference, I've been told.
Many doctors don't have as much information as the people on this forum. We're just average people, but we spend our time research scars only. Doctors have so many issues to focus on that they aren't dedicated to the science of treating scars.
Lots of dermatologists don't use TCA Cross. This could be due to lack of knowledge/experience, not getting enough patients, choosing other options because they produce more revenue, or the risk of widening scars.
I've had TCA Cross done once and Phenol Cross done three times. Haven't seen results. Maybe one or two icepick-like scars got better but I don't take pictures and it's hard to judge after so many months. But there are a few bigger scars that I didn't see improvement in which is disappointing. However, I have to be fair and not say it sucks because I've read accounts of people saying that it works.
27 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:Many doctors don't have as much information as the people on this forum. We're just average people, but we spend our time research scars only. Doctors have so many issues to focus on that they aren't dedicated to the science of treating scars.
Lots of dermatologists don't use TCA Cross. This could be due to lack of knowledge/experience, not getting enough patients, choosing other options because they produce more revenue, or the risk of widening scars.
I've had TCA Cross done once and Phenol Cross done three times. Haven't seen results. Maybe one or two icepick-like scars got better but I don't take pictures and it's hard to judge after so many months. But there are a few bigger scars that I didn't see improvement in which is disappointing. However, I have to be fair and not say it sucks because I've read accounts of people saying that it works.
Many doctors don't know much about scars or offer the most promising scar treatments like subcision and cross technique but the 1% top doctors which are supposed to master all scar treatments.
1 hour ago, Amanda Hall said:Cosmetic doctors want to make money, and make lots of it. I don't blame them up to a certain point, but greed is part of the industry despite their wanting to be doctors and helping people first.
For RFM, I'm sure they will see the best before and after photos and then say that this will be the case for everyone. I haven't heard many glowing reviews about this procedure, but somesay it works and I do believe it works for a small portion of people. There are no guarantees with any treatment so why should this be different? If you have the money to spend/waste, go try it. I personally think Cross, subcision, and fractional CO2 lasers are the best for the different types of scars but everyone has his/her own choice. The safer routes are TCA peels, RFM/manual microneedling, non-ablative lasers, etc. but those are not for me.
I think some doctors are reluctant to use lasers because of the risks, especially hyperpigmentation and erythema, associated with them. It takes months for my laser side-effects to resolve so it's a big ordeal. Some doctors avoid this altogether. RFM has fewer risks and less downtime. In my opinion, it's also easier to operate.
They're afraid of giving darker peopletransienthyperpigmentation, but they're okay with punching a bunch of hot needles into our face that may leave us with those awful grid marks indefinitely??? Make it make sense. To them, it's just finally an opportunity to squeeze a bunch of money out of the fitz type 3-5.
1 hour ago, JPK said:I agree 100%. RFM might work for some people especially if the scars are fresh or I don't know the people respond very well to the treatment but for the majority the results are disappointing. And I cannot understand why doctors use it instead of tca cross for ice picks and small boxcars? Are they lazy or just greedy to charge for the more expensive energy device?Why not combine it with tca cross at least for better and quicker results? RFM can improve ice picks as well but it would take ages, many treatments like 7-8 to see noticeable difference, I've been told.
I just don't get why RFM can't be more reasonably priced considering how many treatments it would realistically take to see results. Like give us a chance to actually test the technology.Most people can't afford $1000 per treatment especially if results are modest at best. The cheapest I've seen it run for was $250 by a nurse at this one clinic, but the doctors usually charge 1000. Seriously, what's that about? Is it just greed? Do they worry that if people were able to actually afford up to 7 treatments that they'll find out how bogus this technology is?
On top of it, this technology is just so new. Why should we trust what these doctors say let alone their skill in running these machines? I keep hearing about these adverse reactions such as grid patterns and fat loss, and I'm not even remotely surprised since RFMbecame a thing only very recently. Most of these doctors are barelycomfortablerunningthis technology but they're okay with charging top dollar as if they're experts.
1 hour ago, Amanda Hall said:Many doctors don't have as much information as the people on this forum. We're just average people, but we spend our time research scars only. Doctors have so many issues to focus on that they aren't dedicated to the science of treating scars.
Lots of dermatologists don't use TCA Cross. This could be due to lack of knowledge/experience, not getting enough patients, choosing other options because they produce more revenue, or the risk of widening scars.
I've had TCA Cross done once and Phenol Cross done three times. Haven't seen results. Maybe one or two icepick-like scars got better but I don't take pictures and it's hard to judge after so many months. But there are a few bigger scars that I didn't see improvement in which is disappointing. However, I have to be fair and not say it sucks because I've read accounts of people saying that it works.
I wonder what it is that makes TCA unsuccessful for some people. Is it the skill of the administer, the concentration, the type or age of scar that makes the difference?I wish the science behind it was studied more but acne scars just aren't a priority in the medical field, which is sad because it personally fascinates me, but the stigma of having them on your face is depressing.
2 hours ago, LivingWithFaith said:I just don't get why RFM can't be more reasonably priced considering how many treatments it would realistically take to see results. Like give us a chance to actually test the technology.Most people can't afford $1000 per treatment especially if results are modest at best. The cheapest I've seen it run for was $250 by a nurse at this one clinic, but the doctors usually charge 1000. Seriously, what's that about? Is it just greed? Do they worry that if people were able to actually afford up to 7 treatments that they'll find out how bogus this technology is?
On top of it, this technology is just so new. Why should we trust what these doctors say let alone their skill in running these machines? I keep hearing about these adverse reactions such as grid patterns and fat loss, and I'm not even remotely surprised since RFMbecame a thing only very recently. Most of these doctors are barelycomfortablerunningthis technology but they're okay with charging top dollar as if they're experts.
I wonder what it is that makes TCA unsuccessful for some people. Is it the skill of the administer, the concentration, the type or age of scar that makes the difference?I wish the science behind it was studied more but acne scars just aren't a priority in the medical field, which is sad because it personally fascinates me, but the stigma of having them on your face is depressing.
I can't tell you why the rf treatments are so overpriced, they are comparable to laser treatments almost. It's such a scam field. It's all marketing. Why didn't they just combine microneedling with bipolar rf in one session if it was soooo effective but had to come up with a new 'cutting edge' technology to con hopeful scar sufferers and charge them by the thousands?? The same as with the Halo laser. A hybrid between erbium fully ablative and non ablative lasers. Both have been available for decades, but they combine delivering a 'new technology' and market it as 'a unique novel facelift without a scalpel'to trickaging people it's the newest miracle against wrinkles.Anyway, I digress, what I wanted to say isalways, always, always have a test patch done before any energy device. Don't be naive and trusting like me. And besides, good rfm results are difficult to find. No doctor who promotes these devices has any convincing photos to show. The most are with Genius + filler. Well, even Granny can achieve immediateimprovement for scars usingfillers!
17 minutes ago, Miro said:Well if u u re fitzpatrick 1 or 2 theres absolutly no question , try fractional CO2
I'll stick to the basics for now. Subcision and tca cross to lift the bottom of the scars as much as possible and then we'll see from there. I think you really need to follow BA's advice and book a consultation with a few doctors and 'shop' for a doctor who can perform certain procedures well rather than trust an authority.
1 minute ago, JPK said:I'll stick to the basics for now. Subcision and tca cross to lift the bottom of the scars as much as possible and then we'll see from there. I think you really need to follow BA's advice and book a consultation with a few doctors and 'shop' for a doctor who can perform certain procedures well rather than trust an authority.
I agree , subcision for tethered scars , and cross for icepicks , if u had enough of these , do laser at the end ,
9 hours ago, JPK said:Yeah but the f^^ckers lie to you oh it's so safe anddon't tell you that the Genius is just as dangerous and can cause prologned or evenpermanent side effects like lasers. If it's so then I'd rathertake my chances with a laser.
I did my researchonline and found out that any energy devices can potentially ruin your skin , it is almost unbelievable. I thought that only ablative lasers has risks, but if you read online reviews of people that had different treatments it is insane. Even non ablative , IPL, BBL has reviews of people that claim they have burned face or ruined skin from it. IPL or BBL are not even lasers just some kind of "light" and still there are people that have big problems after it. Looks like not everybody can tolerate this energy devices or sometimes doctors make big mistakes, or maybe combination of both.
Also there are people that claim not only Infini or Genius ruined their face, but also agressive microneedling gave em new scars. Crazy.
1 hour ago, Iker99 said:I did my researchonline and found out that any energy devices can potentially ruin your skin , it is almost unbelievable. I thought that only ablative lasers has risks, but if you read online reviews of people that had different treatments it is insane. Even non ablative , IPL, BBL has reviews of people that claim they have burned face or ruined skin from it. IPL or BBL are not even lasers just some kind of "light" and still there are people that have big problems after it. Looks like not everybody can tolerate this energy devices or sometimes doctors make big mistakes, or maybe combination of both.
Also there are people that claim not only Infini or Genius ruined their face, but also agressive microneedling gave em new scars. Crazy.
Everything has risks sure but that's the reason why I went to a world renowned specialist whowas said to be careful and knoweledgeable. I have had aggressive microneedling before that and never had any issues, only improvement, however small. The first Genius treatment went also well. I did take a few days longer to recover than after standard microneedling but it was all good.The second Genius however was hell! 4 weeks after my face still looked as if I had the treatment yesterday. And now new scars.
2 hours ago, JPK said:Everything has risks sure but that's the reason why I went to a world renowned specialist whowas said to be careful and knoweledgeable. I have had aggressive microneedling before that and never had any issues, only improvement, however small. The first Genius treatment went also well. I did take a few days longer to recover than after standard microneedling but it was all good.The second Genius however was hell! 4 weeks after my face still looked as if I had the treatment yesterday. And now new scars.
It looks like doctor after first Genius treatment wanted to give you better results and simply used too much energy, which of course is his responsibilty, experienced doctor shouldnt do this.
Btw how old is this doctor and how long is he working as acne scars doctor ?
34 minutes ago, Iker99 said:It looks like doctor after first Genius treatment wanted to give you better results and simply used too much energy, which of course is his responsibilty, experienced doctor shouldnt do this.
Btw how old is this doctor and how long is he working as acne scars doctor ?
Too much energy too focused on small area many passes = logically new scar.
On 6/22/2021 at 10:16 PM, LivingWithFaith said:Absolutely no one knows, but let them tell it, it will solve all our problems. It's just yet another product that's trending right now like Fraxel used to. I wonder what crap they'll come up with next to give us false hope.
Ugh yes. I am so sick of derms giving false hope with no conscience. Really it is a bit too much.
On 6/22/2021 at 7:27 PM, getsmart121 said:I think lasers and subcision helps, laser work well for for smoothingthe scars again think sessions, subcision definitely helps in letting again sessions. Also punch excision for the scars that bother you a lot
did 2 rounds of laser and subcision, my skin got worse. not worth the money. we're doomed and fated to have bad skin.