Manual microneedling is helpful for enlarged pores, superficial wrinkles and very mild scars. However, that's where it ends. It won't do anything for deeper scars, like what most of us have here.

On the other hand, radiofrequency microneedling like Infini is very effective, at least in my opinion. You need that high energy to jolt the sob (aka collagen) into action. Unfortunately, it's damn expensive and not many folks can afford it, at least not the series of 3 treatments that's usually recommended. Hopefully, it'll come down to a more reasonable price in the near future.

Having said that, you can buy a hand-held RF device on eBay and Amazon. Sure, it ain't as powerful as Infini but I would think you will get better results using this with derminator than just derminator alone. What sez you?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3996784/
check outthis study- my scars are between grade 2 and 3. Even some deep scars were greatly improved in this study (combining subcision and TCA peels with microneedling though.) Other studies had the majority with grade 3 scars become grade 1 or less from 4 sets of microneedling alone.

I intend to get Infini RF or similar eventually if my current plan doesn't work out well. I'm a poor student at the moment, but in 2ish years I will have money to spare for it if I'm still worried about my scars after trying subcision and at-home things

2 minutes ago, Petsme said:

(combining subcision and TCA peels with microneedling though.)

Yeah, that's where the key lies to the missing puzzle. You really do need subcision if you want to see a BIG improvement--say up to 80% improvement if you have deep scars and more like 50% if you have milder scars. Again, manual microneedling, no matter how much you roll, is only good for skin texture but not for scars. By all means, these are merely my opinions. But, seriously, I've personally used it for like 3 years and saw little to no improvements. Big disappointment.

9 minutes ago, Petsme said:

my scars are between grade 2 and 3

I saw your pic elsewhere in this forum. It wasn't that bad, and I don't think subcision would do any good. If I were you, I go for Infini or other energy device. It's really the combo of needles and the high energy that makes all the difference in the end.

@Petsme Saving Infini for last is a good choice. Energy devices can do wonders, but there's always the off chance they can mess your face up.

19 minutes ago, Petsme said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3996784/
check outthis study- my scars are between grade 2 and 3. Even some deep scars were greatly improved in this study (combining subcision and TCA peels with microneedling though.) Other studies had the majority with grade 3 scars become grade 1 or less from 4 sets of microneedling alone.

I intend to get Infini RF or similar eventually if my current plan doesn't work out well. I'm a poor student at the moment, but in 2ish years I will have money to spare for it if I'm still worried about my scars after trying subcision and at-home things

Interesting in this Study is this also:
"To our knowledge, this is the first study using this combination of therapy in the management of atrophic acne scars and the first in which topical tretinoin cream was applied both during and immediately after doing dermaroller".

I try to avoid Tretinoin-Oint for a week after a Derminator-Session. Maybe, we should change that regime?

Thank you Petsme for that Article/Study.

Microneedling can be effective on certain type of scars. But notice that study also had other methods done as well, subcision and TCA peel. Most of the people who don't get results from dermarolling either:

1) Use it wrongly. Might be the technique, the device, etc.
2) Have the wrong scars for microneedling. Deep tethered scars, fat loss, deep rolling scars, etc.
3) Don't use any other method to treat the scars.

@Sirius LeeI agree that subcision was extremely important to that study, but other studies that had microneedling alone had similar results. Who knows though? I definitely have to wait for Infini because I can't afford it right now, so may as well try at-home things and subcision on my two tethered scars.

Microneedling alone, 3-4 treatments, majority improves by 1-2 scar grades. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840919/

** By the way this is the white paper pasted above I pasted in the all things peel link - off the faq at the top of the acne scar sub. Papers are 1/4 the way down the page , on page 1, we often give advice in correlations whith these results, though I do not believe in 90% improvement (that is way to high - if you get that great). 90% is highly subjective to factors outside of acne scar treatments.

[Edited link out]

Oh wow, handheld rf device on ebay does nothing haha. Please don't buy this crap. I can take a battery and place it on your skin if you beleive this is the same treatment as a doctor who spends almost 100k on a machine and must see how you skin responds by touch/feel/changes in color/reaction.The Chinese will be laughing all the way to the bank with their leds that cure all skin aliments. The handheld devices sold on ebay and amazon 9 times out of 10 are unsafe, underpowered, do not even do the same thing as spa treatments (device) or Dr's gear, but yet people still buy it. They even make it seem official. Buyer beware. I have a handheld rf and beauty device for you, ... stick your hand in the oven or on a grill, it will turn over collagen and is 10X as powerful hahahaha (sorry laughing).

This isn't true about microneedling, .... every device and I have said this countless times will not cure acne scars. It takes multiple things (depending on your individual scars and how your body heals - there is no standard setting for healing), it's how ""you"" heal. You can do very well with microneedling, tretinorin, and tca peels, .... microneedling by itself, not so much. Why do stupid devices and electronics claim 90%. IT's pretty easy, they want to sell their crap. If you knew it was only 10-20% or you had to do something else to do get that percentage you would never buy it. Guess who sponsors these studies pharma, the device manufacturer themselves, or doctors paid or sponsored by device, pharma, or universities who get $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. This is the discrepancy. Lots of white papers claim things. What is a "thesis" in school its a idea, a thought, which uses references. This means it could have flaws or not be accurate. alot of science is built off faith (they just don't know). But you van tell with these papers often they are bullcrap by marketing companies to sell you crap. So how does one weed through this stuff. The people on this site our extremely honest, a history of success and time in the market (devices come and go), do multiple papers over various time say the same thing. They are going to get the results for high percentage of improvements, but this is a exception to a rule. You can make yourself go crazy by reading to many white papers and not getting data from other sources.

The study got 90% improvement, because they chose patients which had this response. You can if you heal well get a good percentage but I am not going to promise something like that. People with acne scars tend to heal poorly or they wouldn't have scars.

Notice weather it's Infini RF or microneedling and tca (seperate times) they are using energy or acid to stimulate a majority of change. Not microneedling alone which is a upkeep procedure. In that study they use tretinorin to further collagen / cell turnover, and subcision as I often recommend.

No DO NOT apply tretinorin before and after you need, there are several cases of infections and other dermatitis symptoms of reaction using any chemical other than HA when you microneedle. This is by the people who invited microneedling, read the guide to microneedling on Amazon for clinicians, it clearly states this. You apply tretinorin nightly when your not treating for microneeling and your don't have open channels. IT should be a regular thing. If you do it like they did part of they study, we don't have the resources for clean application and pharmacy materials to make sure infection nor extras in the ingredients list don't cause issues (some of these materials do not occur naturally in the skin and can cause other side effects).

There is a part of acne scars that is psychological / painful / damaging / low self esteem, and this is the part that becomes seeking perfection / BDD which is a body dysmorphia in the mirror. You will never have perfect skin, ... whoever sells this including marketing companies ... it's all a lie. Go look up movie star pictures without makeup, and tell me witch all their millions to do plastic surgery, fillers, and treatments, if they don't have issues with their skin without their genetics. It's really shocking. Many have found the remaining percentage of improvement by seeing a therapist (cheap at colleges even if you do not goto one) or Talkspace is a great app (smartphone) you can talk to a therapist 24hrs a day.