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WARNING! I have used the one from Owndoc too. I was stupid enough to use the base circle since it is smaller. And I have suction one stubborn scar many, many times, without good results. It only gave me one ugly circular scar!!
I am very depressed about it. I hate myself for doing that. But honestly I didnt knew it could give me another star.*The one the suction gave me, is far worse than the one I tried to fix.
This sucks, no pun intended :p
9 hours ago, Noa27 said:On 26 February 2015 at 9:35 PM, MissBiscuit said:So just a little something that I would share with y'all. I had been using the suction device (from owndoc) by placing over one area, pumping a number of times in the same place, and then moving on to the next area to do the same. I found that this was leaving rounded indents where the edge of the suction cup had been, and while it may not matter in the long run, I didn't want to risk anything pushing the skin in to any degree. I just realised tonight (and maybe the rest of you already knew this) that if you get a good suction on your skin and then just drag it down across the cheek (or whatever area) without breaking the suction, it will work much more like a vacuum. No imprints of the suction cup and I felt that I got a much better pull from it
I suction that way too. Is it a problem to place the cup on a scar? My scars are standing close to each other so there is no other way then drag the cup and place it on a scar.
I don't know if there's a problem either way - maybe it was just me being paranoid? With something like the handheld vac, it doesn't really matter because there is only suction outwards. On the other hand, the cups using suction in the middle cause pressure in the immediately surrounding skin. How have you been suctioning so far? As in, with what instrument, how often, etc?
7 minutes ago, Noa27 said:Cool, i live in RotterdamUnfortunately there is nothing in Rotterdam or near it. You have to to Bussum or Belgium.
damn that's too bad.
Maybe next year when i have my driving license.
Anyway thank you for the reply.
Oh one more thing can you provide me a link or something where i can gather some information?
Thanks again!
Hello MissBiscuit,
I just had to write that you seem like a really fun person. You have a great attitude and a great sense of humor.
I am 44 years old and let me tell you that the scarring does get worse as you get older. That is one of the reasons that I feel getting work done on my scars is a waste, because it will just get bad again over time. I am also afraid of permanent side effects.
I went to a mental health professional once and she was asking about my history and she just came out and said "I can see you had acne". Some people are just so clueless as to other people's feelings.
Anyway, I just wanted to reach out to you.
4 hours ago, tigardo said:Hello MissBiscuit,
I just had to write that you seem like a really fun person. You have a great attitude and a great sense of humor.
I am 44 years old and let me tell you that the scarring does get worse as you get older. That is one of the reasons that I feel getting work done on my scars is a waste, because it will just get bad again over time. I am also afraid of permanent side effects.
I went to a mental health professional once and she was asking about my history and she just came out and said "I can see you had acne". Some people are just so clueless as to other people's feelings.
Anyway, I just wanted to reach out to you.
Hey Tigardo! Thank you for reaching out
Boy, those 'professionals', hey?! Clueless, insensitive, and rarely diplomatic in speech despite their long list of designations 
. You'd think one of those books would teach them some tact. Sometimes I really take the things they say to heart, and then other days I can't help but laugh at why people who have lived through so much seek help from people who have lived through so little and only through textbooks and then take it as gospel...strange, isn't it? But then again, that's not all of them. I've had some really amazing doctors, counsellors, managers and teachers, so I do have hope that they are out there.
I guess one thing that helps me (every once in a while) is to think that at the end of the day, every single body is made up of decomposing cells that are not going to look very pretty at the end of their lives. Wrinkles, scars, liver spots, moles, chin hairs....in a natural life cycle, humans aren't leaving in pristine bodies, so why not add some more scars into the mix while we're at it, hey? At the end of our days, we'll surely be recounting our lives, and rejoicing in all of the chances we took, the memories we made, the love we shared, the hurdles we overcame. I don't think we'll be laying there saying, "oh dear God, make sure they put fillers in my cheeks for the open casket!"
Here is something else that I find helps me in low times. It's from the Velveteen Rabbit. Hopefully it helps anyone out there who is reading it now too 🙂 :
œReal isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real.'
'Does it hurt?' asked the Rabbit.
'Sometimes,' said the Skin Horse, for he was always truthful. 'When you are Real you don't mind being hurt.'
'Does it happen all at once, like being wound up,' he asked, 'or bit by bit?'
'It doesn't happen all at once,' said the Skin Horse. 'You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand.
• Margery Williams, The Velveteen Rabbit
Hey MB,
I've been following your journey since you began.
Myself, have done a subcision 2 days ago an am wondering about the suction part, on which I would appreciate your opinion.
I've read that it's recommended to make about 8-12 passes/4-5 seconds each/scar/day.
We know that suctioning too hard may be detrimental, but what about using lower pressure for higher amount of time(like 60-120 seconds each) , without passing the comfortable zone ? There's indeed a possibility to get more edema/fluid buildup doing this way. I thought about this ,trying to make an analogy on other medical procedures where to make a *more* permanent result, they use low force/long duration instead of high force/short duration ,the latter being more traumatic and not helpful.
Let me know what you think .
21 hours ago, ponason said:Hey MB,
I've been following your journey since you began.
Myself, have done a subcision 2 days ago an am wondering about the suction part, on which I would appreciate your opinion.
I've read that it's recommended to make about 8-12 passes/4-5 seconds each/scar/day.
We know that suctioning too hard may be detrimental, but what about using lower pressure for higher amount of time(like 60-120 seconds each) , without passing the comfortable zone ? There's indeed a possibility to get more edema/fluid buildup doing this way. I thought about this ,trying to make an analogy on other medical procedures where to make a *more* permanent result, they use low force/long duration instead of high force/short duration ,the latter being more traumatic and not helpful.Let me know what you think .
Hi Ponason,
Congrats on taking the first step! Unfortunately I don't know anything other than what I've read and have tried. I've just come in from a very long day of travel right now, so I don't know if that's why I'm unable to follow or not, but I don't think I did exactly what you detailed. I suctioned twice a day with four passes each, but I don't suppose I was evening keeping the suction for 4-5 seconds long. At least not this last time. Of course, my suctioning this time was hindered by the fact that my device broke and then the strange lumps (not the usual ones) showed up after I started to use the vacuum. But perhaps its something to ask Mr Matt? He's a seasoned veteran with this stuff and he had phenomenal results!
I should also say (especially to il90) that all of my lumps have gone down significantly. The unusual blister-like lumps turned to hard lumps after all Just as you had predicted! And the usual hard lumps are still there but minimising. Definitely none are noticeable unless you were to put my face under strange light. Thank you for helping me to keep my sanity in those uncertain moments!
5 hours ago, MissBiscuit said:Hi Ponason,Congrats on taking the first step!
I should also say (especially to il90) that all of my lumps have gone down significantly. The unusual blister-like lumps turned to hard lumps after all
That's great! Although, I knew it was gonna be fine. For your hard lumps have you tried arnica? It helped mine go down faster.They stuck around forever before I started taking those arnica pills. It was actually my doctor who recommended it. They are still there though lurking around, and my second treatment is Tuesday and I hope that I don't get the same amount as last time! I'm going to take those arnica pills religiously!!
Also, I'm gonna suction with my vacuum and using my hand as a buffer... you've done this too right? Any advice? Do you just keep it there for a few seconds above the subcision areas?
I'm glad everything worked out for you! How do you feel about your skin? How long has it been.. 5-6 weeks? It took quite a while for me too see the final results at least 2+ months actually.
On 6 February 2016 at 3:22 AM, il90 said:That's great! Although, I knew it was gonna be fine. For your hard lumps have you tried arnica? It helped mine go down faster.They stuck around forever before I started taking those arnica pills. It was actually my doctor who recommended it. They are still there though lurking around, and my second treatment is Tuesday and I hope that I don't get the same amount as last time! I'm going to take those arnica pills religiously!!Also, I'm gonna suction with my vacuum and using my hand as a buffer... you've done this too right? Any advice? Do you just keep it there for a few seconds above the subcision areas?
I'm glad everything worked out for you! How do you feel about your skin? How long has it been.. 5-6 weeks? It took quite a while for me too see the final results at least 2+ months actually.
Hi! Sorry for the delay. I was out of town and without data for a while.
Uuum...I tried arnica gel my first round of subcision and didn't find it worked for me. I've heard it works wonders for some people though! I actually don't mind the lumps too much. Once they get to a certain size, they rather level out my skin more and I like that haha
So is today your round two?! Oh gosh, I'm so behind. Good luck with it! Let us know how it goes Are you getting it on the same spots or different areas? I did use the vacuum, but only for a few days (it wasn't until late in the suction time, and then I got freaked out by the blister things and stopped). I'd say definitely use a hand as a buffer. I the blister-type feeling was maybe because I used the vacuum directly on my skin. Plus it's a dyson, so it's beyond powerful -_- oi vey! In any case, I had it only for a few seconds I guess, and then went over the area a few times.
As for how I feel about my skin..well. The swelling has all but gone now, so I have a more realistic view of what's going on with my face. The areas that have been subcised, I am so happy with. I don't know exactly what happens or how it looks when or if the hardness under goes away altogether though...if anyone knows, please let me know The second time I got subcision done, the hardness underneath persisted for at least five months, and then I had my next subcision, so I can't be sure if it would have ever gone away or not. I hope it doesn't go entirely, because I rather like the effect that it has on my skin. I'm not talking lumps, but just a general firmer/harder feeling under the skin, if that makes sense.
That all being said, I can see the places that the dr didn't do now, so that's the only thing. So subcision I'm thrilled with, yet again - Dr's eye for detail, not so much I guess that is where choosing the right Dr and being very stern with them comes in to play.
Oh! And actually, remember the scar that he said wouldn't be helped by subcision? It has helped tonnes! The first photo here is a baseline from before any subcisions. The second I took just now in a mix of natural light and overhead light. This one is...what? 35 days post-subcision. You can see why sometimes it pays to be really firm with your Dr. If you really feel in your heart of hearts that something will make a difference, stand up for it. If that Dr won't, find one who will. 
Wow that looks great!! I have about the same on one cheek but the other I have an indent in the middle of my cheek that I want gone so bad! Actually what you have now I could live with.... It looks great! At this point it is more like you know scars that everyone has.
Today was second round yeah, I look nuts now. But, I've done everything. I seem to have got some hard brushing on my forehead as well this time. My whole cheek hurts like hell and I'm like tomato red with bloated cheeks. Yeah you can imagine.
I did not cry this time though. I did not say a word. Like I could hear people go ouch and stuff and I didn't say I word through any of it PRP injections, derma pen (even when he did on areas they had forgot to put EMLA on haha), subcision injections, TCA cross. None of it. Haha I'm so proud of myself.
I asked my doc what he thought about suctioning and he thinks it won't really work and that the only thing is the risk of more of those lumps but that it wouldn't really do any harm either. I really don't know what to do because I don't want to go around with brushing forever, I got to go back to school and all. But, people have generally done better with it here on this forum haven't they?
25 minutes ago, il90 said:I asked my doc what he thought about suctioning and he thinks it won't really work and that the only thing is the risk of more of those lumps but that it wouldn't really do any harm either. I really don't know what to do because I don't want to go around with brushing forever, I got to go back to school and all. But, people have generally done better with it here on this forum haven't they?
I would go for it. If you don't suction you might regret it and start thinking about what could have been. If you're serious about treatment, isn't some prolonged bruising worth it?
1 hour ago, FriskyCreek said:I would go for it. If you don't suction you might regret it and start thinking about what could have been. If you're serious about treatment, isn't some prolonged bruising worth it?
I'd tend to agree Especially since you were so brave to go through ALL of that!! Well done, darling! Now you might as well do all that you can to improve your odds at this time. I know that the bruising can seem embarrassing at the time, but in even one or two months time, you won't even think about it (and neither will anyone else). It will be worth it Xx
Wow huge difference. Congrats.
15 hours ago, FriskyCreek said:I would go for it. If you don't suction you might regret it and start thinking about what could have been. If you're serious about treatment, isn't some prolonged bruising worth it?
Yeah. I guess. I will try gently, like once a day starting from the third or fourth day - so maybe tmrw. AAAARRRGHHH I don't want to go to class and have debates all bruised up haha. Oh well when in rome.
13 hours ago, MissBiscuit said:I'd tend to agree
Thanks! Yes! I feel super brave haha. Did you do it several times a day or just once? I read the suction paper and it said preferable once daily, or once every other day... But some do it like several times...
I looked at your pictures again, and man it looks great. This is extraordinary progress.... How many times did you do it now? Like I haven't even seen all that many before/afters that great that have had a TON of work.
4 hours ago, il90 said:Yeah. I guess. I will try gently, like once a day starting from the third or fourth day - so maybe tmrw. AAAARRRGHHH I don't want to go to class and have debates all bruised up haha. Oh well when in rome.
Thanks! Yes! I feel super brave haha. Did you do it several times a day or just once? I read the suction paper and it said preferable once daily, or once every other day... But some do it like several times...I looked at your pictures again, and man it looks great. This is extraordinary progress.... How many times did you do it now? Like I haven't even seen all that many before/afters that great that have had a TON of work.
Yeah, because you had other procedures, I'm not sure when you would start. I haven't had anything done at the same time as subcision before. Probably start slow...see how your skin reacts to it. Continued bruising is bound to happen, but if the site gets otherwise irritated, maybe ease up? I did it twice a day myself. Once in the morning when I woke up, and once a couple of hours before bedtime. I (at least for myself) wouldn't go crazier than that though...
Thank you for the compliment! I think the picture kind of missed a little bit of the shadows, but yeah it's looking pretty good on that side! The other side isn't bad, but there's almost a puckering effect in some areas...like the places between lumps now looks concave, where I don't think it usually is. In that regard, we'll see how it all looks once the lumps calm down all the way (if they do)
Also, consider that your bruising will be more intimidating in a debate 
Let it give you power. Go for the throats, darlin'!
19 hours ago, MissBiscuit said:Yeah, because you had other procedures, I'm not sure when you would start. I haven't had anything done at the same time as subcision before. Probably start slow...see how your skin reacts to it. Continued bruising is bound to happen, but if the site gets otherwise irritated, maybe ease up? I did it twice a day myself. Once in the morning when I woke up, and once a couple of hours before bedtime. I (at least for myself) wouldn't go crazier than that though...Thank you for the compliment! I think the picture kind of missed a little bit of the shadows, but yeah it's looking pretty good on that side! The other side isn't bad, but there's almost a puckering effect in some areas...like the places between lumps now looks concave, where I don't think it usually is. In that regard, we'll see how it all looks once the lumps calm down all the way (if they do)
Also, consider that your bruising will be more intimidating in a debate
I actually started last night... so the day after the procedure. I thought about it and it does make sense, they will re-tether and that's why you have to do it so many times. But if you keep it up while collagen can be produced you wouldn't have to do it that many times. Anyways, I saw one scar emerging and panicked and started suctioning those areas that weren't that painful and I knew were the 'problem' scars that I hate the most.
I used the hover, put it on LOW and then folded a towel twice and put it on top of it then I just moved the vacuum around if it was too powerful I held it a bit away from my skin. It worked fine, I bet though that my bloated-ness will keep for longer though. Pretty tired of looking this chipmunk-y I miss my cheek bones haha!
Oh right I wanted to ask you... my one scar that I hate the most doesn't seem like it was subcided... do you remember what the scars looked like after they were treated? They are like swollen but I'm not sure if I can see an incision on that particular scar. It might be that he went in somewhere else, a bit above or something and then moved the needle underneath all the way to that scar... Am I completely out of it by thinking like this?
I really hope I didn't do all this and then the scar that I actually wanted treated was not really treated. This would be pretty depressing.
Yeah I had those lumps too which made my right cheek look pretty bad... Think you just have to wait to know exactly how it'll turn out until those are gone. They make is look bad which might not be the case.
I have no bruising actually.... It hurts and all... maybe it'll come... maybe a bit purple-ish but not that bad considering. Just red dried blood and a lot of swelling haha
2 hours ago, il90 said:Oh right I wanted to ask you... my one scar that I hate the most doesn't seem like it was subcided... do you remember what the scars looked like after they were treated? They are like swollen but I'm not sure if I can see an incision on that particular scar. It might be that he went in somewhere else, a bit above or something and then moved the needle underneath all the way to that scar... Am I completely out of it by thinking like this?
Hey, good for you for making the choice! And it sounds like you found a good method that works for you too.
As for your question, I can't say for sure what your doctor did, but I can tell you how my experience went. This last subcision I had done, I had several scars worked on. Some more at the apple of my cheek, some closer to my laugh lines. I had only three (I think...max four) incision marks on my face in total. Pretty amazing, considering the area covered. If it weren't for the lumps under my skin, I wouldn't have known where he worked on until the swelling went away, really... It's hard to tell when you're that puffy still. Even so, if you aren't sure, I'd consider continuing to do passes with the vac over the area because it'd be a shame if it turned out he did do it and then you didn't suction thinking otherwise
If it turns out he didn't do that spot, and you get another session done, I'd suggest asking him to mark the scars. If he doesn't, ask if you can. My doctor told me on my second round of subcision that it is really difficult sometimes to see the scars once he starts working because the swelling starts right away and then of course everything looks more level.
I know my doctor missed one that I had asked him to work on, but I wonder if he did it on purpose. He kind of pooh-poohed my request, suggesting fillers instead. Considering he was wrong about the effect of subcision on the scar on my right cheek, I can't help but feel like he would be wrong about this other one too. His reasoning was that it is a scar that has also formed with my smile line, and therefore subcision won't do anything. Meanwhile I've been reading articles detailing how subcision is used to treat some lines and wrinkles even without scarring, so...yeah. Doctors... amiright?
Great reading you two and thanks for sharing all of your experiences with subcision.
I have scarring very similar to yours MissBuscuit on my cheeks and around my smile lines on both sides. The scars make the smile lines deeper and I have multiple smile lines on the side so I hope if I can find a doctor in my area it will help me like it has you. The last set of pictures you posted look very promising. Continued good healing ladies 🙂
On 1 February 2016 at 8:21 AM, Noa27 said:Guys... I guess i need a cheer up or something... Just cried loads today.... 2weeks ago i've had an second subcision. I thought it helped my scars, but they look aweful... I'm afraid this won't help, i suction in a wrong way, etc... I really feel like there is no way i can win this battle...
I'm feeling like an idiot with that suction device on my face whilemy little daughter sees it all... The time i stick in that suctionthing, i could stick into my daughter... Sorry, i'm just hopeless...
Ah! Darling, I am so sorry! I've just seen this now - I don't know why I can't figure out how to get notifications when people write. I basically just come to this page every once in a while to see if there's anything new. Again, my sincere apologies!
How are you feeling now? It can be a bit of a shock when the swelling goes down, and I know that was happening for me around week two. I know that I'm always over the moon with excitement when I see my face still swollen because I can see what it would look like without the scarring, but of course those aren't the final results and It does take time to see it. A bit of a roller coaster as it looks bad, then better, then worse, then better again over a period of a few months. Feel free to PM me if you are feeling particularly frustrated, sad, deflated or anything, and then I'll be sure to get the notification and will make sure to get back to you.
Honestly, if I didn't have baseline photos of my skin prior to subcision, I'd still be so bummed about my skin and wouldn't have noticed any difference at all. I have to actively look back on my photos once in a while to remind myself how far I've come. I think part of it is just that we are so used to seeing the scars that even when they have diminished, we still see them as huge. Like a level of body dysmorphic disorder. It's so so so important to be patient and kind to yourself, and I always suggest taking before photos. Even if you do it right now, and then you can see your progress over time still. You don't need to ever share them with anyone.
And hey, I'm no experton the matter of family or children etc, but I do know that you are absolutely permitted to take some time for yourself. <3
Alright! Day 41 and I'm feeling pretty good! I've been hesitant to share the left side of my face because the lumps were making the space between them look like scars, plus some of the discolouration from the procedure gave the appearance of scars where there weren't, so it was very deceiving. There's still some of the discolouration here, but thought I'd share anyways. First pic is baseline (prior to any procedures). Second was from just before my last subcision. And the last pic was just taken now (41 days post third subcision). Bearing in mind that the whole cheek was not targeted every session, so much of the improvement is actually from two sessions.
This was the harshest lighting I could find for all of these. To note for the third one, the dark patch at about the 2/3 mark up the photo on the right is the discolouration from the procedure, which I had mentioned above. It has been going down over time. There's one darker spot (just above the visible flake on my skin, almost parallel with my lips) that is the scar my doctor missed doing this last time, so I will be getting yet another session done for that.
I've also been doing dermarolling once a month for the past three months, as per the suggestion of Mr Matt. I must say that Ive been seeing improvement in the overall colour of my skin - it's more uniform now. Otherwise, it's hard for me to say if dermarolling is making the difference in the rest, but I will keep up with it!
On February 15, 2016 at 1:45 PM, MissBiscuit said:Alright! Day 41 and I'm feeling pretty good! I've been hesitant to share the left side of my face because the lumps were making the space between them look like scars, plus some of the discolouration from the procedure gave the appearance of scars where there weren't, so it was very deceiving. There's still some of the discolouration here, but thought I'd share anyways. First pic is baseline (prior to any procedures). Second was from just before my last subcision. And the last pic was just taken now (41 days post third subcision). Bearing in mind that the whole cheek was not targeted every session, so much of the improvement is actually from two sessions.
This was the harshest lighting I could find for all of these. To note for the third one, the dark patch at about the 2/3 mark up the photo on the right is the discolouration from the procedure, which I had mentioned above. It has been going down over time. There's one darker spot (just above the visible flake on my skin, almost parallel with my lips) that is the scar my doctor missed doing this last time, so I will be getting yet another session done for that.I've also been doing dermarolling once a month for the past three months, as per the suggestion of Mr Matt. I must say that Ive been seeing improvement in the overall colour of my skin - it's more uniform now. Otherwise, it's hard for me to say if dermarolling is making the difference in the rest, but I will keep up with it!
You look amazing!!! Great improvement.
Which size dermaroller do you use? And what is the procedure? I am new to all of this...
22 hours ago, jjp007 said:You look amazing!!! Great improvement.Which size dermaroller do you use? And what is the procedure? I am new to all of this...
Hey, thank you! Still some room for improvement, but I'm feeling really good about what's come of it so far! I really can't say how much I believe the progress pictures help. Honestly, without them, I would still just focus on the flaws and assume nothing had changed. How crazy is that?!
For needling, I use a 1.5mm dermaroller and 1mm derma pen. The first time, I didn't use any numbing cream, but I found that I wasn't rolling as hard as I could have been. The last couple of times, I used some Emla that I bought at the pharmacy (holy canolli it's expensive!) first and found that I was able to get a better roll in this way I would suggest using that. As for the roll, I just followed instructions from the internet. Up and down, up and down, up and down. Side to side, side to side, side to side, diagonal, diagonal, diagonal, blah blah blah. I found that the cream started to wear off (I didn't slather it on very thick, and I know you're supposed to), so some areas I found that I couldn't keep going. There was definitely some blood, and my face stayed pink for a few days afterwards. Keep plenty moisturised and hydrated! 🙂