I've never done 2.5mm but 2mm. See how your test spot react first, if it looks normal. I don't think there is big risk to new scarring.

Ok thanks. Further input from other members of this board would be great.

As i mentioned, the first treatment is going to be a test spot only, but even then, if something goes wrong (more scarring), it will clearly be noticable.

So, i don't want to take any unneccessary risks. So if anyone thinks 2.5mm is too risky, please tell me so!

Nobody has an advice?

Never heard about scaring after dermarolling, never heard about 2.5 mm on the face, if the scars are icepick maybe the doc are right.

That size sounds waaayy too big!!! Especially to do at home. Only a professional should use a large dermaroller in a clinic setting (and 2.5mm sounds too big even for a professional!!).

I only use a 0.25mm size dermaroller from www.clearskincare.com.au for regular home use. This is the minimum safe size that is scientifically proven to induce collagen & heal skin.

Please stick with a small dermaroller size for home use and leave the longer ones for in-clinic professional use. I don't even think professionals use a 2.5mm roller.

You might want to message Quirky Fox for more tips as she gets her dermarolling done by a professional.

And please watch youtube demonstrations and research how to use dermarollers safely & with the correct rolling technique at home (i.e. keep the dermaroller sterile/ keep it in the fridge between uses etc).

Also, depending on the size of the dermaroller, you must research how often you should roll...as you need to leave ample time between rolling to allow the skin to heal & collagen to form.

Please also consider using a vitamin c serum or other key skin remodeling topical while you are rollerderming....

Lastly, it would be wise to consult a professional if you are new to dermarolling and new to home-based scar revision techniques.

This website might be helpful too: http://whitelotusantiaging.wordpress.com/

Cheers

NB DO NOT USE A 2.5MM DERMAROLLER AT HOME!!! IT'S TOO RISKY!!! I'd be wary even to use this length at a doctor's surgery.....maybe you should get 2nd and 3rd opinions by different doctors? Or ask the doctor to test a smaller size roller first. But whatever you choose, remember it takes 2-3 months for new collagen to form....the process is accumulative so it takes time to see results...

I personally recommend the 0.25mm roller from clearskincare.com.au for home-based use....otherwise, you can consider the 0.5mm. size for home-based use. Anything higher i.e. 1mm size etc., you should only do in a sterile clinic setting by a professional that is very experienced and has good reviews. If you don't know know what you are doing, you can drag the roller and tear/ damage/ scar your skin. Please stick with a safe size. And research thoroughly too. Also, consider single skin needling and vacuum therapy/ cupping/ suctioning therapy as an adjunct to your skin needling/ dermarolling. All the best!!!

I only use a 0.25mm size dermaroller from www.clearskincare.com.au for regular home use. This is the minimum safe size that is scientifically proven to induce collagen & heal skin.

0.25 mm is too short for collagen induction

Hi Remicade,

No it's not, it's great for regular home use...this is where I get mine: http://clearskincare.com.au/stock/face-roller-skin-needling-0.25mm-CIT-collagen-elastin-derma

"The Clearskincare Face Roller has 192, 0.25mm length, finest quality surgical stainless steel needles.

These needles pierce your skin to create micro channels, stimulating your skin's natural wound healing response to produce collagen and elastin to naturally infill lines and wrinkles. This process is called skin needling or collagen induction therapy (CIT).

These micro channels, created by the needles, also radically increase the absorption of Clearskincare creams and serums into your skin maximising their effectiveness and benefits."

I also do more intensive single needling for more stubborn scar areas...

Note: Other longer dermarollers require facial numbing cream that can damage nerves...they also are not for regular home use, they need to be used in a clinical/ professional setting.

I was considering to have more intensive dermaroller sessions by a professional dermatologist but I don't need it now....the 0.25mm worked really well, along with the more intensive single needling plus key topicals (copper peptides/ retin a/ fresh lemon juice/ beta glucan/ rosehip oil/ tea tree oil). I did glycolic peels but I no longer advocate it as I find fresh lemon juice superior. I also can't emphasis enough the importance of excellent nutrition/ quality multivitamin-mineral/ exercise/ supergreen powder [chlorella/ spirulina/ wheat grass/ barley grass] with fresh juice/ supergreen masks with manuka honey (factor 10 + or above) & fresh lemon juice/ sunlight/ a healthy lifestyle.

To heal scars your body must have the full nutrition it needs to heal itself...

Cheers

According to "The Dermaroller Series by Konstantinos Anastassakis 2005" 0.2 and 0.3mm dermarollers needles not long enough to induct collagen, needles this long do not penetrate the epidermis through to the dermis the deeper layers of the skin where collagen induction can take place. Many of the antiaging effects of the derma roller are attributable to their ability to induce collagen and scientific trials have demonstrated this will not happen with a roller shorter than 0.5mm and this is the usually the best needle size to be used on the face. They are often long enough to increase transdermal absorption.

I have also read websites that too report you need to use a minimum of 0.5mm. But this is scientifically incorrect, 0.25mm is the minimum size you can use to induce collagen. Clearskincare.com.au is headed by a reputable & well-known dermatologist. She cites studies too showing that 0.25mm is the optimal size for safe, effective and regular home based needling.

PS I just noticed Dr Philippa wrote that the critical factor is that the needles have a diameter of 0.25mm.

GuyGermany: 3.0 mm dermarolling on the face by DesFernandes: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0738081X07001903

Hi Remicade,

I just found this post by Dr Philippa of www.clearskincareclinic.com on this forum!!!

She writes:

"Hi Everyone

One of my patients sent me this link and I would like to set the record straight. I am a doctor, practicing in Sydney Australia. I have been needling acne scars since 2002, when I learnt a technique called electroridopuncture from a Swiss dermatologist, Dr Philippe Simonin. Around the same time, Dr Des Fernandes manufactured the Environ CIT Rol Roller but, unfortunately, it was very expensive and made each treatment too expensive for my patients. 12 months later, one of my patients told me about Dermarollers and I purchased some to trial for my patients. At that time, Mr Liebl, the manufacturer, who is not a doctor, did not realise they could be used for acne scarring. So I did the original trials for the Dermarollers on acne scarring and the results were good. Mr Liebl used my before and after shots on his website and acknowledged my contribution. Unfortunately at that time, Mr Liebl would not accept that his rollers were medical devices and I was unable to get them registered in my country. This was very frustrating as I knew skin needling was a great treatment for depressed acne scarring.

Over the next 12 months I made my own roller and had it registered as a medical device in Australia in 2005. Many things have changed since I first started skin needling. Skin needling is now recognised by many doctors as a excellent treatment for depressed acne scarring. There are also now many skin rollers being manufactured in a number of different countries.

It is unethical for me to comment on the products of any other company. Clearskincare rollers are registered medical devices with Australia's Therapeutic Goods Administration. They are the only autoclavable ( ie is able to be sterilised and reused ) roller in the world. Submitting our rollers to 134 degree heat in an autoclave does require them to be made from the highest quality stainless steel and autoclavable plastic. I will continue to make rollers until there is an affordable alternative available in my country as my primary interest is in treating patients not being a manufacturer.

I am very excited and happy that so many people suffering depressed acne scarring can now access a simple and affordable treatment that can help to improve their scarring.

Unfortunately, there are now so many myths surrounding skin needling that you patients are being unnecessarily frightened away from this excellent treatment.

The key elements to success with skin needling are:

1. Your skin's ability to manufacture collagen - every person is different, some people are quick collagen makers, other can be quite slow. In my experience, everyone will have some improvement.

2. Repeated treatments - to make new collagen and fill up scars you will need lots and lots of treatments. In my own practice I use skin needling in combination with a number of other clinical treatments to get the best results. There is never one treatment that will fix everyone. Anyone who says differently has never been a practicing clinican!

3. Needle diameter. Again trial and error with my own patients has shown a needle diameter of .25mm is the ideal size to maximise dermal injury without creating a new scar.

Feel free to email me with any questions you have about skin needling or acne in general."

GuyGermany: 3.0 mm dermarolling on the face by DesFernandes: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0738081X07001903

Very interesting, thanks for posting this info...I never knew doctors used a 3.00mm dermaroller...is it safe though? Can it cause nerve damage? What are the risks?

PS I just noticed Dr Philippa wrote that the critical factor is that the needles have a diameter of 0.25mm.

This is correct the diameter must be 0.25 mm, 0.2 mm doesn't induce inflammation, over 0.30 mm scarring can occur. But diameter is not the same as length.

GuyGermany: 3.0 mm dermarolling on the face by DesFernandes: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0738081X07001903

Very interesting, thanks for posting this info...I never knew doctors used a 3.00mm dermaroller...is it safe though? Can it cause nerve damage? What are the risks?

According to many sources the main risk is infection. In the photo is Desmond Fernandes .

Yes, I understand the difference between length & diameter...however, I vaguely remember reading that longer lengths can cause complications (i.e. nerve damage/ scars).....I think from memory, 1.5mm (possibly 2mm) length is probably the maximum length anyone should use...not 100% sure though, but I'll try to find some studies or articles on the issue...Cheers

I would be concerned if the doc wanted to roll your whole face with 2.5mm (especially without a general anaesthetic) but based on what I've read, a test stamp at that length should be ok. But hey, I'm no doctor.

The main thing is how you feel about it. Are you comfortable with this doctor? Has he used a 2.5mm on other patients? Does he use reputable rollers/stamps?

You can also try posting your question on realself.com. It's a place to get answers from the medical community.

A big thank you to everyone who replied.

I'll give it some thought, right know i am inclined to to be careful and

let the doctor treat me with 2mm and not 2,5mm. I'll let you know how it went.

Thanks again, this forum is great!

And thank you aquasea, for your lengthy response and for informing me about the possible risks.

It seems we had a slight misunderstanding, though. I would never do 2mm or 2.5mm dermarolling

myself without gaining experience with lower needle lengths first. I was talking about the doctor doing the treatment, he uses dermastamp.

At home i started using a 0.25 dermaroller a few weeks ago. It didn't improve my scars i think, but the

overall skin tone definitely has improved a bit, so i am going to continue that.

Hi GuyGermany,

Yes, please be very careful...and you should read this too ...

It's best to use shorter needles, even if you have to roll your skin many more times....better safe, slow, low risk & progressive positive results than fast and high risk with possible negative results...

Also, please message Quirky Fox for more recommendations as she has professional dermarolling done and it has been very successful thus far for her....personally, I think 1 to 1.5mm would be the maximum length required for any professional acne scar revision...but, I could be wrong!...please research the risks associated with longer dermarollers before getting it done professionally...

All the best!!!

PS Tell your doctor to not to be aggressive and not to make too many passes/ rolls over the same skin section to avoid "shredding" your skin (i.e. make a star pass once over one section of your skin i.e. once horizontal, once vertical, once diagonal left, once diagonal right)....you need some parts of your skin to remain in tact....take it slow...also ask him how many times he's tried this modality and are all of his clients happy with the results and if not why not? (i.e. please ensure he is a great dermarolling technician).

PPS Sorry, I just read he uses a dermastamp not roller....that would be a far safer option...cheers