here's something else interesting that i came across. it's not related to urine therapy specifically, but urea, since i'm also using a urea cream for my scar experiment here ()

urea is used clinically as a keratolytic agent (dissolves keratin), to exfoliate the top layer of skin. as others have stated on here before, it also is a great moisturizer (it binds water, is water soluble, etc). but the understanding is that scars are made of a large amount of disorganized collagen, even if they do have a keratin component as well.

i just came across this paper studying collagen structure, done by a few research groups from UMichigan and Case Western, published in the Journal of Ultrastructure Research. They state "The collagen fibrils of human or guinea pig dermis when exposed to the denaturing agents,

urea or guanidine-HC1, dissociated into smaller, disparate subunits, probably aggregates of

microfibrils." They also state that mature collagen with more cross-links is more resistant to breakdown by these denaturing agents than new collagen.

Another quote from their paper: "The nature of fibril expansion observed

following exposure of dermal collagen to

the denaturants studied is unique and not

like that which occurs during dissolution

of dermal collagen by acetic acid"

acetic acid = vinegar. so not all exfoliation processes are equal.

maybe it's worth using the ACV toner again? haha.

anyway, just some information if anyone's curious.

okay, since the biggest issue seems to be that no one can say what exactly is in urine, i'm linking a source.

this is a study done by NASA in the 70s where they performed analysis on human urine and came up with an exhaustive detailed description of the composition of human urine. their goal was to assess whether/how they would be able to recycle human urine in space to be able to extract drinkable water from it.

reference for the paper is here: "David F. Putnam Composition and Concentrative Properties of Human Urine. NASA Contractor Report. July 1971"

link to the paper is here (pdf file direct download from google): http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffranklin.chem.colostate.edu%2Fdiverdi%2FC433%2Fexperiments%2FHPLC%2520urine%2520analysis%2FNASA%2520CR-1802%2520urine.pdf&ei=4zO7UcYyj5vIAZmzgcAG&usg=AFQjCNFWEKHEV_zSxSAqsF4i0oEXZUQlhQ&sig2=t4T9PRvtZeeissuIKSFxeA&bvm=bv.47883778,d.aWc

if you can't download from that link, just copy-paste the paper reference (author name etc) into google the way it's listed above, and it will be the first hit.

the Tables listing what is in human urine are at the end of the paper, specifically Table I (page 39). I tried copy-pasting it but the formatting on the table won't let me get a clear copy, without jumbling up some of the words and letters.

Constituents are listed in order of highest concentration to lowest, as the authors state on page 5:

"The composition of human urine has been studied by many investigators

and the quantities of 158 different chemical constituents are summarized in

the NASA Bioastronautics Data Book (Reference 14). These constituents are

broadly categorized as electrolytes, nitrogenous compounds, vitamins,

hormones, organic acids, and miscellaneous organic compounds. The 68

constituents that have individual maximum concentrations exceeding 10 mg/l

are listed in Table I in decreasing order of concentration. These constituents

add up to about 36,800 mg/f in typical urine. The remaining 90 compounds

total approximately 250 mg/B."

There are lots of things in there that i wouldn't necessarily want to or need to re-ingest, but also lots of things that would be good to be able to focus on areas that may need building blocks to heal (like skin). like everything else in this world, it's a balance. obviously urine is an excretory tool for your body to get rid of undesirable things as well as excess good things. the question is whether these undesirable things (at first glance: bilirubin, ammonia) are bad enough to prevent you from utilizing the good things that may actually help (the vitamins and minerals, the hormones, the amino acids, even allantoin!). you take some of what you think may be bad, with the good, and if you don't have a negative reaction then great.

its not that we dint know what urine has.

a simple high school bio-science book or a click would tell us that anyway.

what i've been meaning to say is what u stated at last

obviously urine is an excretory tool for your body to get rid of undesirable things as well as excess good things. the question is whether these undesirable things (at first glance: bilirubin, ammonia) are bad enough to prevent you from utilizing the good things that may actually help.

u were only concentrating on the 'excess' part till now.which is okay.

no worries.

but u see why would u even risk using urine with bad stuff when u get the good stuff in other forms with and without other harsh chemicals.

all u gotta do is choose a product with these without bad or harsh chemicals.

well, i don't see using urine topically as being a significant risk, especially in comparison to more accepted things like harsh chemical peels that people do regularly. i don't understand how you can call some minute amounts of chemicals your body produces dangerous when people use irritating chemicals on their faces everyday without blinking an eye.

if there were such products i would give them a shot. products with this many potentially beneficial constituents don't exist as far as i can tell. and even if they did, i don't necessarily trust that a cream that's been sitting on a shelf for months and then is exposed to air repeatedly while you use it up will have the same properties as the fresh bioactive version. i don't know enough about all the constituents to trust that they won't break down in a commercial product by the time i use them.

*shrugs* if you know of any effective product with all of this good stuff in it, and that has been proven to work without breaking down and becoming ineffective, please do let me know what it is.

what u think is ur opinion.

i am nt stopping u or anything!

if u can choose a product without being biased,good.if u cant and stick to whatevr path u choose now,better!

i dnt support usage of harsh chemicals too.

but i think calling every product 'bad' is being biased and reaching extreme!

anyway,i am very happy with the very few products i use.

the key is to choose products which has no harmful stuff and not too many active or inactive ingredients.

also,the concentration and pH matters.

these two are aspects that cant be controlled with natural stuff.and i believe they are drawbacks.

i'm glad you like the products you use

i'm not calling every product bad, i just don't necessarily trust all of them. i still use certain commercial products, including my favorite moisturizer (no harsh chemicals, all good ingredients), and sunscreen, and the urea cream i chose i've just been let down by enough products that i'm willing to give this option a shot because it seems to have certain advantages that the commercial products don't (less likelihood of breakdown of anything active, and larger list of potentially useful ingredients).

unfortunately concentration and pH are hard to tell in commercial products too. pH can change over time (ie sitting on a shelf), and most products don't list concentrations of anything.

i disagree.

i feel in natural stuff(most) chances of breaking down or any form of mutation is greater simply because its natural and without ant stabilising agent.

also,pH of a product rarely changes.

and good products always ,mention concentration and % of ingredients and their proportion.

the presence of a stabilizing agent can also eradicate bioactivity though. for example, that's the problem with a lot of stabilized antioxidants, because antioxidants are by definition, unstable, and must be that way to work. and that's the idea behind using *fresh* things (like eating berries instead of taking some pill that claims to have antioxidants). not everything works this way, but plenty do. so again, it just comes down to the fact that we don't necessarily know, so we try things and see if they do actually work.

pH absolutely can change over time, especially with exposure to outside elements (like opening a jar lid repeatedly or dipping your fingers in). that's why, for example, we have to monitor and adjust the pH of solutions we use in the laboratory if they've been sitting around for too long before we use them again.

i don't know what products you're talking about that have such specific labeling, because concentrations and percentages and those kinds of technical details are rarely listed on packaging of non-prescription anything. there are some that do, but not many.

again, i'm asking that if you do know of any specific products that you would recommend, that have such details readily available, that have all the beneficial things in them that we're looking for, and that have been shown to be effective, please do let me know. vaguely saying that there are products out there helps nobody.

no,all researchers aint mad.GOOD products with AO doesnt lose there activeness etc.

if ur diet can provide u with things then there is nothing better.

i have said this in this forum before but there are reasons when people take supplements out of need.

they need it for good and relevant reason.fast!

also,too much consumption of a particular food sometimes is bad especially because its got other stuff in it (for instance sugar etc) and less concentrated AO in comparison.

while AO might be one's need fast and immediate.

products that we get are stabolised.

i am talking about good products only.

they dnt pack and sell stuff in labs which break down.

the common case of break down is the color which actually doesnt have much effect on the original set up of wash/cream whatever!

those some are the good ones i suppose,

for example,some oilve oils mention acidity and also pack in black packs.with concentrations.they are clearly the best brands.

why dnt u do some research and find out?

i can say about the only one product i use now.

thats saslic foaming face wash.

u could also look for lucidum face wash.

okay, thank you for the suggestions!

UPDATE:

it's been almost two weeks since i started applying urine, and five days since i started the urea cream.

i'm seeing a decent reduction in the dark pigmentation of the scars. areas that used to be mostly light red/brown with white/skin color intermingled, are now mostly skin color with red/brown intermingled. there is a little spot darker in the middle of one of the scars from a pimple i got several months ago, and that's faded more too. my skin is definitely very moisturized. no real discernable change in texture.

below is the regimen i'm using. before i began the topical urine experiment i was doing all of this anyway, except for the urea cream, which I started a week after I decided to try the urine.

Mornings:

- wash face with liquid african black soap and cool water, towel off

- apply urea cream thickly (brand RevitaDerm 40, got it off amazon, advertised use is for calluses), let it dry (it leaves a white residue)

- wash white residue off with water and black soap again

- apply fresh urine (collected that morning) with a q-tip on scars only, make sure skin is saturated but not dripping, allow to dry and let sit for about 20-30mins

- shower (face gets washed again just by being in the shower)

- apply sunscreen (Neutrogena dry touch sunblock 45+), layer my favorite moisturizer on top of it, allow to dry, and add some silicone gel on scarred areas (Kelo-Cote)

Evenings:

- wash face with african black soap and cool water as soon as i get home

- apply urea cream as in the morning, let it dry

- wash off residue and apply urine (saved in a clean bottle from the morning) with a q-tip

- apply urine repeatedly as it dries, as much as i feel like it

- apply urea cream repeatedly as much as i feel like it (depends on how much time i have at home)

- before bed, do one last swab with the urine, let dry, and cover scars with Elicina Plus cream (i don't know if it actually works as advertised, but i tried it a while back and decided it was a great occlusive night cream, so i keep it around)

- let Elicina Plus dry, and apply moisturizer on top go to sleep

i'm considering adding some kind of occlusive tape overnight...i've tried silicone gel strips before and they don't stay on very well, nor do they seem to do much for me. i might go with some kind of scotch or duct tape haha.

Good luck Purpletulip with the urine therapy experiment!!! Sounds like it's working

Btw, sorry for the tardy reply to your question...and yes, I used New Directions Beta Glucan Liquid (topical)...however, it does have some awful preservatives in it which are not great at all (trying to source an alternative beta glucan product, maybe BION?)...New Directions do sell pure beta glucan powder but you need to measure the percentage (and I just wanted something fast for my skin burns)...it really made a difference to healing/ regrowing my skin...beta glucan is used by hospitals for 1st and 2nd degree burns victims...it's also used by plastic surgeons on their patients after dermabrasion and other surgical procedures....I stumbled upon this ingredient/ information via a link posted by another forum member...I'll try and find it...however, if you scan the ingredients contained in reputable scar creams/ burn serums...you'll notice they use beta glucan in their product. And I highly recommend beta glucan. It helped my skin tremendously. I understand you can also take the beta glucan 3-D1 supplements to heal all manner of skin conditions/ illnesses...even cancer!

Otherwise, you could try making a face mask using colloidal oatmeal....that also contains beta glucan...

However, at the moment I'm using skin needling (with a 0.25mm roller from clearskincare.com) and fresh lemon juice...it's doing wonders for my skin (however, some people find it too strong...you need to do a 24 hour patch test to see how it reacts with your own skin because it does exfoliate it as it contains AHA/ BHA). I leave the fresh lemon juice on all day/ night and apply it fresh to my skin twice a day...I've only used it for the last 4 or 5 days and I'm seeing significant improvement (redness reduction, skin smoothing, scars reducing/ vanishing, leathery forehead/damaged skin is tightening & repairing, brightens skin, lightens pigmentation problems/ rosacea capillaries disappearing etc). Please read the many high rating reviews in this forum in the product review section re lemon juice topicals.

I noticed after 3 days of using fresh lemon juice the top layer of my skin started to peel/ flake and feel smoother and look better. Even scars were visibly reduced and stubborn redness fading considerably fast. I highly recommend skin needling with fresh lemon juice topicals to anyone with significant skin damage/ redness/ significant scarring whether derived from burns or acne. You may like to consider it after you've trialed the urine experiment...

I don't think I'll be using glycolic peels anymore now that I've seen how well fresh lemon juice works with skin needling. The vitamin c in the fresh lemon juice also helps heal the skin (soothe redness etc) which is missing in the glycolic acid peels. I have also read that washing with natural organic brown sugar and with fresh lemon juice is fantastic for the skin...will look into trialing that at a latter time.

Cheers

PS Massage is key to help remodel burn scars & other scarring. Please research the "wellbox " too, (it's a high-end massage gadget), or perhaps trial a 2-week 30 minute daily facial massage using 100% organic cold pressed rosehip oil. This has really helped me. There's also vaccuum therapy/ cupping for deep tissue massage therapy. You can see owndoc.com or research glass cupping devices (or visit a practitioner). I'm thinking of skin cupping in future, as it not only helps scars but also rejuvenates the skin and keeps it smooth, supple and youthful.

PPS lavender oil & tea tree oil helps burns/ burn scars and possibly myrrh/ sandalwood/ frankincense (but please research the last three as I'm not entirely certain).

PPPS Skin needling and single needle skin pricking is really useful in activating the skin's natural healing mechanism. Please see owndoc.com and their products forum for tips and suggestions. This was key in helping fade my partial thickness burn scars and raising depressed areas of my skin (along with 30 minute daily skin massaging with 100% rosehip oil). It took me 2.5 months of applying key topicals & daily using various skin remodeling techniques to start to attaining "normal(ish)" skin again....(NB it takes 1 month for skin to regenerate and 2 to 3 months for collagen to regenerate).

PPPPS One technique that really helped remodel my burn scars was to skin needle (with a 0.25mm roller) and then straight apply rosehip oil and massage 30 minutes in circular vigorous (yet careful) motions - clockwise and then counterclockwise - using one middle finger (both tip and pad)...it seemed this technique significantly softened my scarring to the point it became malleable and started to remodel, flatten and heal in a more normal way...

Thanks aquasea!

Do you know if there's any way to get that new directions beta glucan serum in the US? or is the only way through the australian website?

i've done a lot of massage and i don't know that it helps me much. and i'm hesitant to try dermarolling just because i don't want to cause further harm, but i'm glad it's working for you!

EDIT: i found this product by Nutrabiotic called andioxidant skin serum. it has the oat beta glucans, and dmae and ALAs and a few other things in it. and there's also an oat beta glucan formulation sold by a company called garden of wisdom. not sure but may try one of these...e

EDIT2: ok. i ordered both of them >.> they cost less than the new directions one, and at least the garden of wisdom one seems to have less extra ingredients.

i've been trying to find out more about beta glucans, and ran across a paper that states that beta glucans can induce MMP9 activity (matrix metalloproteinase 9). MMP9 is implicated in scar tissue because it's a collagenase (breaks down collagen)...however i'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. well, if it breaks down collagen then that's good for scar tissue, but it may be tissue specific (like, helps in some tissues, hurts in others). so this should be interesting to see how it acts on skin scars.

also, beta glucans are recommended for healing from burns and surgical wounds early after injury. my scars are two years old at this point...granted they still have a blood supply, so it may still stimulate the immune cells around the blood vessels. we shall see...

UPDATE:

a couple things have changed.

1. i've started getting some teeny whiteheads which i think are from the urine, except, what's strange is that they don't show up where i apply the urine, just right along the border of where i apply it, and not necessarily everywhere either, just in a couple places. so i'm a bit confused. however, just to be safe, i'm going to stop using it for a day or two so i can treat the whiteheads, and then when i go back to using it, just do direct application in the morning instead of storing it in a container at all (ie catch some on a tissue and use it there, to minimize contamination).

2. i have noticed some textural changes over the weekend.

- some of the bumpiness of the scars has smoothed out, and some of the smaller indents are looking shallower.

- the color is not as bad as it was a week ago.

- AND, there was a little atrophic spot on my chin that seems to have resolved. it had been there for quite a few weeks at least, and looked like an enlarged pore except it went way deeper than that. i had been having trouble with it either just being atrophic or filling in with sebum, and now i'm having trouble even locating it!

i'm also going to add a beta glucan product soon (ordered over the weekend), which may help. after doing a lot of research on beta glucan, i'm pretty excited about it. it seems to have the most official research to back it up compared to other products or remedies that are out there, i'm actually surprised it isn't more prominent in the skincare industry. it seems to be used in some clinical settings (as aquasea said, for burns and wounds). i looked into the mechanism, and it seems like it stimulates the m2 monocyte/macrophage response via the langerhan cells in the skin, which, while it is an inflammatory/immune response, the m2s seem to be associated with repair and regeneration (stimulates some matrix degrading enzymes and increases collagen/elastin production to rebuild), whereas the m1 macrophages, which are the primary kind secreted at a site of injury, are involved in destructive inflammation. so there may be hope yet!

Just to mentio i also began putting urine on my face.I have stored it in a bottle with dropper and putting from there.

Urine is also the reason why the fetus in the mother's womb can heal scarless.

Hi Purpletulip

Yes, you can get it to the US, their website is www.newdirections.com.au...however, I'm not thrilled about the preservatives in this beta glucan liquid....it's only good to use short term, but long term it's best to use 100% pure products without chemicals/ preservatives etc...I've been looking at the BION skin care range and they use beta glucan...however, their products also use preservatives etc as do most products. However, I think Pure Skin Junkie do not use any nasty chemicals, so they might be good too...

Otherwise, I'm thinking of making my own serum containing:

rosehip oil

centella

beta glucan

tea tree oil

retinaldehyde

b3 (niacinamide)

b5

calcium

vitamin c

fresh lemon juice

vitamin d

aloe vera

sandalwood

comfrey - THANKS PANOS! for suggesting

frankincence

myrrh - THANKS PANOS! for suggesting

colloidal oatmeal

rosewater

(supernatural silver?) -THANKS PANOS! for suggesting

rosemary essential oil as the natural preservative

However, I'll need to research as to what is the optimum dosage for each ingredient and whether there are any possible contraindications if I use these ingredients together....I'm inspired to use DIY skincare promoted by this person...he's managed to fully recover/ heal his horrific scars through creating his own 100% pure skincare: http://www.truthinaging.com/review/healing-and-removing-scars

I found out about beta glucan through this post and then researched it and discovered it was great for burns!

Cheers

PS What type of burns did you receive Purpletulip and how long ago?

PPS Try applying 100% organic lavender oil directly on your spots 2 x daily (not all over face as it is too drying)...it should totally clear them within 24-72 hours...also, 100% tea tree oil is great for burns and spots too (it also stops/ prevents skin cancer)...I use it all over my face but please test it first as some people are allergic to it...

Thanks aquasea!

Do you know if there's any way to get that new directions beta glucan serum in the US? or is the only way through the australian website?

i've done a lot of massage and i don't know that it helps me much. and i'm hesitant to try dermarolling just because i don't want to cause further harm, but i'm glad it's working for you!

EDIT: i found this product by Nutrabiotic called andioxidant skin serum. it has the oat beta glucans, and dmae and ALAs and a few other things in it. and there's also an oat beta glucan formulation sold by a company called garden of wisdom. not sure but may try one of these...e

EDIT2: ok. i ordered both of them >.> they cost less than the new directions one, and at least the garden of wisdom one seems to have less extra ingredients.

i've been trying to find out more about beta glucans, and ran across a paper that states that beta glucans can induce MMP9 activity (matrix metalloproteinase 9). MMP9 is implicated in scar tissue because it's a collagenase (breaks down collagen)...however i'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. well, if it breaks down collagen then that's good for scar tissue, but it may be tissue specific (like, helps in some tissues, hurts in others). so this should be interesting to see how it acts on skin scars.

also, beta glucans are recommended for healing from burns and surgical wounds early after injury. my scars are two years old at this point...granted they still have a blood supply, so it may still stimulate the immune cells around the blood vessels. we shall see...

Sorry, Purpletulip, I just saw this post...

So, your burns are two years old....the beta glucan should still help, I've heard people say that long term use of beta glucan gives them soft smooth skin like a new born babies bottom!! So, it should still work. But you might want to look at skin needling/ rolling with a short needle and then applying the beta glucan. My needle is only 0.25mm. I got it from clearskincare.com.au ... it won't damage your skin. You just need to ensure you have the rolling technique right (please research it & watch demonstration videos) and wash your roller under hot water after use & let it air dry, before placing it in the case and storing it in the fridge to keep it sanitary. Indeed, most people use skin needling as a general beauty modality to help product penetration. It also helps activate the innate healing mechanisms of the skin to remodel the skin/ heal scarring. You could also see a professional (but IMHO, nobody can fix your skin better than yourself!).

Also, regarding massage therapy, this is really helpful. Most doctors recommend this for any type of scarring, especially burns. See http://www.markgoldmd.com/instructions/noscars.html and please research further. Also, I'm looking at trying cupping/ vacuum therapy in future....this is a non-invasive treatment and is apparently very helpful in healing scarring of all types & keeping the skin youthful, taut and smooth long term...

I'm looking at purchasing the cups from here....

http://massagecuppin...m/product-page/

http://www.essential...er=asc&&start=0

Good luck with the beta glucan & urine treatment Purpletulip, please keep us updated!!! Cheers

PS your Nutrabiotic product has some great ingredients like antioxidants, oat beta glucans, dmae and ALAs...sounds GREAT!!!

PPS please look into supernaturalsilver.com (as topical and internal wound/ scar healer)

PPPS eat lots of foods that boost glutathione levels like raw red spanish onion, this is said to boost wound healing...I've also heard foods containing sulfur help wounds/ scarring...and please look into drinking freshly made super green juicing daily like beetroot/ carrot/ apple/ apple/ ginger/ chlorella/ spirulina/ barley grass, this heals you at a DNA level...so does raw kale salad etc... raw flat parsley is great also on salads, so too alfalfa + steamed broccoli, raw red cabbage (for calcium - apparently calcium is key to healthy skin, so too vitamins A, C, & D...B5 & B3 are helpful too)....and eat lots of superfoods like avocado, chia seeds, flaxseed oils, mixed nuts/ mixed seeds, berries, strawberries, apples, passionfruit, watermelon, sprouted lentil/ quinoa/ chickpeas, organic tempeh, sea vegetables, miso soup, unhulled tahini, hummus, peas, mixed beans, almonds, walnuts, mint, thyme, cayenne pepper, lemongrass, pumpkin, sweet potato, turmeric, brown rice, fresh lemon juice on salads, evoo, sea salt etc..basically, lots of raw, organic vegan wholefoods & superfoods... (and stay away from coffee, tea, tap water, junk artifcial sodas/ energy drinks/ sports drinks, junk foods/ microwaves, fried foods, canned foods, foods/ drinks contained in plastic/BPA, aspartame, preservatives, additives, flavoring, colors etc....and only drink pure spring water or fresh veg/ fruit juices). Cheers

wow thanks so much aquasea!! i have tried a lot of those ingredients you listed and they are wonderful for skin. i also did try the lavender oil which helps some but not enough. actually one of my favorite products has the lavender oil (in addition to the famous regenerative helichrysum, and a number of other things). it's called Scar Control by Forces of Nature. they also have an Acne/Pimple Control which works wonders

i also went a little overboard and got another product in addition to the nutrabiotic one: it's called BetaSilk, and it's made by Transfer Point. it also seems to have a lot of good stuff in it (and it shipped way quicker ), so i'm really excited.

to answer your question: my burn scars are electrical burns. considering how super dark and atrophied they used to be, the fact that my face looks anywhere near normal right now is a miracle, and i attribute it to oils and aromatherapy. i spent a few months being really depressed and trying to protect the scars in the hopes that they would improve, but they only got worse. then at around 5 months in, i found out about tamanu oil and neem oil, and my scar healing quest took off. the oils helped a TON, even overnight i could tell they made a difference. i spent a year experimenting with different carrier oils and essential oil mixes, and i tried the edgar cayce scar formulation as well. i even ordered ayurvedic oil and powder mixtures. i did a LOT of massage i tried some homeopathic treatments (the kind you take by mouth, like, little white sugar beads) that did nothing. i tried taking systemic digestive enzymes and that did nothing. i also explored a lot of pre-formulated cosmeceutical products and came up with nothing really useful that was commercially sold. i continued using oils for about a year, but the effects slowed down last summer, which is when i went looking for more products. in the process i found my favorite moisturizer ever, which was sort of the silver lining heh. i also tried an MSM cream that helped quite a bit, especially with the atrophic areas (it was called MRM MSM cream), and i also tried taking MSM internally, but effects from that also plateaued after a few months. then i tried the ACV toner, and the Elicina Plus which gave me pretty good results, and though that also feels as if it's plateaued, it still is a great occlusive night cream so i keep it around. i also discovered the gel silicone a few months ago, which is a nice protectant. and i've tried all sorts of natural food masks (Manuka honey, papaya, banana, yogurt, sugar and oil exfoliants, avocado, etc). silver, on the other hand, is something i never knew how to obtain or use. i may look into that link, thank you

so it's taken this whole two years just to get the color to not being horribly noticeable....and it's still not anywhere near normal. i can't even cover up the scars with makeup because makeup just settles into the lines and bumps and makes it look worse. plus the injury weakened the skin matrix too so i got premature lines/wrinkles in addition to the bumpy appearance, which sent me into a whole new spiral of shame and depression. sigh. but i'm fully committed to fixing this and getting a normotrophic scar appearance at the very least. i'm really hoping the beta glucans will deliver

panos, keep us updated on your progress!! since i'm using the urea cream as well, it'll be hard to tell if any results i see are from one or the other, so i'd be very interested in hearing about what happens for you

Hey just wanted to tell you, i had a dogbite scar, which color improved after years ofcourse. It is currently a hypertrophic scar about the size of a dime. I think the colors from your burns would definitely heal by time. I also burned my face. gosh it was BLACK for a whole month and the skin was peeling BLACK SKIN ( i have light tan skin ). Anyways those disappeared after 4 months.

Just wanted to ask if your burns caused any hypertrophic scarring like tose poreless raised a bit lighter than normal skin things.

Ill try to use tamanu oil.

Anyways, try researching fasting. To summarize, it basically activates your body's healing mechanisims and directs the energy used for digesting to healing your body. I have a thread about it and a lot of great great people have contributed trusthworthy, because it was tested, information. Ima try that this summer too. Goodluck to us!

Hey just wanted to tell you, i had a dogbite scar, which color improved after years ofcourse. It is currently a hypertrophic scar about the size of a dime in the middle of my eyes on my nosebridge. I think the colors from your burns would definitely heal by time. I also burned my face ( i accidentally tripped the frying sizzling hot oil on my face ) gosh it was BLACK for a whole month and the skin was peeling BLACK SKIN ( i have light tan skin ). Anyways those disappeared after 4 months.

Just wanted to ask if your burns caused any hypertrophic scarring like tose poreless raised a bit lighter than normal skin things.

Ill try to use tamanu oil. I wanted to try urine as a topical long time ago but I always forget lol.

Maybe this summer ill try to. Just hope i wont get lazy overtime...

Anyways, try researching fasting. To summarize, it basically activates your body's healing mechanisims and directs the energy used for digesting to healing your body. I have a thread about it and a lot of great great people have contributed trusthworthy, because it was tested, information. Ima try that this summer too. Goodluck to us!

Hi AghhNe,

oh man that sounds rough i'm glad you got some healing over time!

i did consider fasting but it's far too psychologically difficult for me, it sends me into a really unhealthy place.

my burns did cause hypertrophic scarring, but i can still see a lot of the pores. mostly it's just either bumps around and between the pores, or giant gaping pores (like an orange peel).

i expect the colors will continue to fade over time, but it's taking way too long for one thing (there's only so much i can hide and feel horrible before it affects my life), and i'm also afraid they will become hypopigmented, so i'd really like to remodel the scar tissue if i can.

goodluck to us indeed

wow thanks so much aquasea!! i have tried a lot of those ingredients you listed and they are wonderful for skin. i also did try the lavender oil which helps some but not enough. actually one of my favorite products has the lavender oil (in addition to the famous regenerative helichrysum, and a number of other things). it's called Scar Control by Forces of Nature. they also have an Acne/Pimple Control which works wonders

i also went a little overboard and got another product in addition to the nutrabiotic one: it's called BetaSilk, and it's made by Transfer Point. it also seems to have a lot of good stuff in it (and it shipped way quicker ), so i'm really excited.

to answer your question: my burn scars are electrical burns. considering how super dark and atrophied they used to be, the fact that my face looks anywhere near normal right now is a miracle, and i attribute it to oils and aromatherapy. i spent a few months being really depressed and trying to protect the scars in the hopes that they would improve, but they only got worse. then at around 5 months in, i found out about tamanu oil and neem oil, and my scar healing quest took off. the oils helped a TON, even overnight i could tell they made a difference. i spent a year experimenting with different carrier oils and essential oil mixes, and i tried the edgar cayce scar formulation as well. i even ordered ayurvedic oil and powder mixtures. i did a LOT of massage i tried some homeopathic treatments (the kind you take by mouth, like, little white sugar beads) that did nothing. i tried taking systemic digestive enzymes and that did nothing. i also explored a lot of pre-formulated cosmeceutical products and came up with nothing really useful that was commercially sold. i continued using oils for about a year, but the effects slowed down last summer, which is when i went looking for more products. in the process i found my favorite moisturizer ever, which was sort of the silver lining heh. i also tried an MSM cream that helped quite a bit, especially with the atrophic areas (it was called MRM MSM cream), and i also tried taking MSM internally, but effects from that also plateaued after a few months. then i tried the ACV toner, and the Elicina Plus which gave me pretty good results, and though that also feels as if it's plateaued, it still is a great occlusive night cream so i keep it around. i also discovered the gel silicone a few months ago, which is a nice protectant. and i've tried all sorts of natural food masks (Manuka honey, papaya, banana, yogurt, sugar and oil exfoliants, avocado, etc). silver, on the other hand, is something i never knew how to obtain or use. i may look into that link, thank you

so it's taken this whole two years just to get the color to not being horribly noticeable....and it's still not anywhere near normal. i can't even cover up the scars with makeup because makeup just settles into the lines and bumps and makes it look worse. plus the injury weakened the skin matrix too so i got premature lines/wrinkles in addition to the bumpy appearance, which sent me into a whole new spiral of shame and depression. sigh. but i'm fully committed to fixing this and getting a normotrophic scar appearance at the very least. i'm really hoping the beta glucans will deliver

panos, keep us updated on your progress!! since i'm using the urea cream as well, it'll be hard to tell if any results i see are from one or the other, so i'd be very interested in hearing about what happens for you

Take heart Purpletulip...I truly empathise & know how you feel...and I also know your scars WILL heal!!! I'm so glad to hear that you have been actively correcting them despite going through some rough emotional times...[ been there and it's not fun!]...

I have healed my rolling scars (which took me over 1 year - so I know that scars can heal...the skin is very malleable if you treat it well)...and I've now seen it again after my burns accident....

Your electrical burns sound significant. But, if the guy in the article fixed his scars then you WILL heal yours too!!! And you've already managed to significantly heal them thus far...awesome!!!

So, it seems you have trialed a lot of great remedies to date...well done!!! But you did start them a little late...however, your skin will still heal....but please look into single needling therapy (see owndoc.com), this will help rebuild your skin/ fill up lines/ wrinkles/ heal scars. Also, look into retinoic acid, it smooths bumps/ wrinkles...

Also, here are some key info and ingredients I gleaned from the link I posted that might be useful:

"My skin needed gently coaxing into letting go of those layers that were scarred. So I devised a regime of peels to be done every 2 weeks. Yes, every 2 weeks, but they were very mild so healing was quick and rapid with no down time. I went online and found a most lovely lady who helped me in every way. I™m not sure if she has been mentioned in the forum before but her name is Julie Robbins and she makes retinoic acid peels in different strengths. I emailed her and she recommended a few products. I needed a peel that would help with the damaged DNA and at the same time increase my skin™s ability to rebuild my the dermal matrix. Retinoic acid was my chosen ingredient due to all of rejuvenating factors. I had used retin A before and had seen its benefits but I wanted something that was less artificial in a base that would nourish my skin at the same time. She was selling it, so I was sorted.

I also needed a super serum to heal the skin and support this rebuilding so I went online and bought some copper peptide and pure low molecular hyaluronic acid serum. I was prescribed some strong epidermal growth factor normally used for burn patients and I had read about L-proline and its benefits for collagen and skin so I got loads of that powder. I also got some centella extract for its healing capacity and, erm, what was the other, oh yes, beta glucan powder, ferulic acid and carnosine to help with the new cell production."

This info and list of ingredients/ treatments might be suitable for you too...and yes, silver is an incredible healing agent - thanks Panos!

Lastly, I wonder if the skin needling/ rolling modality with fresh lemon juice would help your skin exfoliate naturally...it's doing absolute wonders for my own skin...you might want to test this at a later stage....it certainly helps heal scarring and remove the top damage layer of skin...just leave it on for 24 hours and retry it every 2nd day or so until your skin heals...it also has vitamin c which is very effective for premature aging...in fact, I have no lines under my eyes or crows feet because of using pure vitamin e since I was really young (around my eyes day & night - and not squinting too)...and using the fresh lemon juice and massaging has made this area more youthful...it's plumped them and even fine lines are diminished....please test fresh lemon juice for yourself! But for the greatest healing effect, try it with skin needling with a 0.25mm roller.

Take care & thanx for sharing your story Purpletulip.... it's great to exchange our remedies and encourage each other through our trials with regard to healing our various skin conditions...

PS I like to read this blog for inspiration www.thewellnesswarrior.com.au ...the blogger had cancer (the doctors said she had to immediately amputate her arm the following week or she would die !), so she had chemotherapy but refused to amputate her arm...but then after getting ill from the chemo therapy and seeing no results, she refused the chemotherapy and reversed her cancer on her own (via the Gerson Therapy) and through a natural organic vegan diet and other natural therapies....she is now fixing the atrophy of her arm following the toxic chemo therapy....she changed her lifestyle from a magazine writer to a naturopath and now leads a healthy lifestyle...you too can turn your "testing times" into "testimonials" and with your chemist background, perhaps look into manufacturing natural products to help others with scarring!!! I know BION is manufactured by a bio-chemist etc....cheers

PPS Gentle exercise is a natural way to encourage production of natural growth hormones that repair skin...

PPPS You have not seen premature aging until you had seen my forehead!!! It was severely lined, wrinkled, mottled, rough, bumpy, pigmented...It was severely damaged through years of (ab)using Benzoyl Peroxide (yes, I found out the hard way that natural therapy/ natural topicals are best)....it's been a long road, but my skin is healing...skin needling helped, glycolic peels/ copper peptides also helped etc...but what has really made in-roads recently to repairing the cellular damage of my skin at a DNA level were: retin a, B3 niacinamide and B5 (please get a quality product with B3 & B5 in it as it's too strong on its own and could scar you if you use too much), and skin needling with fresh lemon juice and last but not least, rosehip oil + massaging....I'm now going to add calcium to the list and see if that helps too...

thanks again Aquasea

interesting article: http://www.dermascope.com/exfoliation/can-aged-skin-be-reversed#.UcCrvIWyyIA

Aquasea,

I read that story!

Well purple,

If your scars have pores in them, then they certainly have more chance to heal than my scar (dogbite) where it is poreless very smooth and less elasticity than normal skin. I am planning to excise them via scalpel excision when i have the guts to go to a plastic surgeon ( I am scared lol) and when i have the money for it.

Great article Purpletulip!!Thanks for sharing

I had a look at the Osmosis skincare range and was impressed...except for the chemical preservatives...don't know why they need it...why can't they use natural rosemary essential oil as a preservative?

And I agree with most of the article i.e. peels/ lasers can drastically exacerbate aging & not prevent it...however, for skin that is severely damaged/ scarred, I do believe that peels are important, at least until damaged skin layers are gradually sloughed away & heel...(i.e. I tried to let my skin heal "naturally" for many years by not doing anything, but it only recovered with direct intervention, good mesotherapy & good natural topicals)....I'm now a fan of fresh lemon juice + skin needling rather than glycolic peels....it's less intense but more affective in my experience...but yes, exfoliation is best to be avoided, especially by people with fragile skin, youthful/ young skin and healthy skin...

But, I think he's absolutely right about what is really effective in anti-aging modalities...feeding the skin with ingredients that encourage "macrophage activity" and rebuilding collagen & the inner dermis....yes, the skin needs proper nutrition...whereas excessive peels & lasers deplete the skin of nutrients/ collagen etc....he writes:

"These listed ingredients sound excellent too: My belief is that the dermis must be targeted with ingredients that communicate new collagen production (through fibroblast stimulators) while avoiding giving the skin more work if possible. It can be done with delivery mechanisms like liposomes, ultrasound, and other penetration enhancing strategies. There are several ingredients that talk to fibroblasts directly including retinoic acid, retinaldehyde, r-lipoic acid, chlorella, ghk copper peptides, 1,3 beta glucan, and epidermal growth factor. Again, these ingredients need to have enhanced delivery mechanisms or else they will end up stalling in the epidermis (and never doing their job) since the average penetration rate of most actives is two percent.

A second component to achieving a true anti-aging result is scar tissue removal. The only way to make the dermis an ideal "planting ground" for new collagen/elastin is to remove the debris that occupies more and more of the dermal layers. 1,3 beta glucan has been shown to enhance macrophage activity, which are the scavengers of the skin and will help to remove these bundles of debris."

A final aspect to the age reversing strategy is re-establishing the barrier. It is common sense that if we reduce the workload of the skin by reducing the need for collagen/nutrient diversion to the epidermis and we reduce the free radicals normally generated as a result of having a damaged barrier (more sun damage and more environmental toxin absorption), then the skin will handle the fibroblast stimulation much more efficiently. Through the invention of new "physiologic" peptides and the enhancement of dermal delivery of fibroblast stimulators, we may finally be reaching a point where anti-aging accurately describes the products we are using!"

Really helpful article...cheers

Hi AggNe

You might be 16 yo but you know waaaaaay more about healing your skin than I did at 16 years of age!! So you will be knowledgeable & able to rectify your scars far sooner & more effectively....and yes, it's tough being a teen with these problems...but many teens, if not most teens, go through them...and just think...you won't even remember 90% of your teenage years anyway in the future, so just keep strong and focus on the future...keep studying, get good grades & and keep getting mentally, physically & spiritually stronger each & everyday day, and enjoy your life with true, supportive family & friends Be Well, Live Well!!!

PS Please consider single needling for your dogbite etc (you can get the implement here at owndoc.com)...this is a very low risk procedure and can remodel/ heal/ rebuild your skin quickly and effectively...you could try adding fresh lemon juice also to the wounds to encourage collagen as well...

Cheers