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On reconsideration, I used hypertrophic a bit too off-handedly - the scars were a bit raised in some areas (and these are very small scars, definitely would not be candidates for cortisone), but mostly it was just unevenly textured skin... in fact, to be most accurate, i think they would be described as some scarred pores (2 ice picks I guess, the but the skin immediately around them is very very slightly raised, though post-laser its more noticeable) - its basically unevenly textured skin, thickened around the scarred pores... from everything I have seen/been told, this laser should work on that kind of issue...?
From what I've read, the non-ablative laser encourages regrowth and healing, but part of that process is breaking down where there are excess areas of collagen as well, as a scar would normally (more slowly) over time anyway as part of the general healing process? So overall, the area of skin smoothes out..
Am I even making any sense?? I guess, point is, I just want to know the answer to the question above, how did your icepicks fare? And how long did it take to see a change in them?
Non-ablative procedures don't break down anything. They basically do two things: 1. encourage collagen growth, and 2. encourage faster cell turnover. They do not break down excess areas of collagen because neither the laser nor the body specifically targets "excess collagen". The head of the Lux1540 isn't small enough to target specific spots on the skin, and the body itself doesn't recognize hypertrophic scars as being anything wrong.
Hey DRaGZ,
How much improvement have you seen to date to deep, ice pick scars following your Mixto treatment?
Thanks
I did not really have any icepick scars, just boxcar and rolling, so I can't really comment on that, sorry.
On reconsideration, I used hypertrophic a bit too off-handedly - the scars were a bit raised in some areas (and these are very small scars, definitely would not be candidates for cortisone), but mostly it was just unevenly textured skin... in fact, to be most accurate, i think they would be described as some scarred pores (2 ice picks I guess, the but the skin immediately around them is very very slightly raised, though post-laser its more noticeable) - its basically unevenly textured skin, thickened around the scarred pores... from everything I have seen/been told, this laser should work on that kind of issue...?
From what I've read, the non-ablative laser encourages regrowth and healing, but part of that process is breaking down where there are excess areas of collagen as well, as a scar would normally (more slowly) over time anyway as part of the general healing process? So overall, the area of skin smoothes out..
Am I even making any sense?? I guess, point is, I just want to know the answer to the question above, how did your icepicks fare? And how long did it take to see a change in them?
Non-ablative only heats up the skin, but does nothing for the actual scar tissue.
On reconsideration, I used hypertrophic a bit too off-handedly - the scars were a bit raised in some areas (and these are very small scars, definitely would not be candidates for cortisone), but mostly it was just unevenly textured skin... in fact, to be most accurate, i think they would be described as some scarred pores (2 ice picks I guess, the but the skin immediately around them is very very slightly raised, though post-laser its more noticeable) - its basically unevenly textured skin, thickened around the scarred pores... from everything I have seen/been told, this laser should work on that kind of issue...?
From what I've read, the non-ablative laser encourages regrowth and healing, but part of that process is breaking down where there are excess areas of collagen as well, as a scar would normally (more slowly) over time anyway as part of the general healing process? So overall, the area of skin smoothes out..
Am I even making any sense?? I guess, point is, I just want to know the answer to the question above, how did your icepicks fare? And how long did it take to see a change in them?
Non-ablative only heats up the skin, but does nothing for the actual scar tissue.
This is from Palomar's site re: starlux 1540: "This [procedure] triggers a wound-healing process that replaces the disorganized, compacted scar tissue with healthy new tissue, greatly diminishing the appearance of the scar tissue."
On reconsideration, I used hypertrophic a bit too off-handedly - the scars were a bit raised in some areas (and these are very small scars, definitely would not be candidates for cortisone), but mostly it was just unevenly textured skin... in fact, to be most accurate, i think they would be described as some scarred pores (2 ice picks I guess, the but the skin immediately around them is very very slightly raised, though post-laser its more noticeable) - its basically unevenly textured skin, thickened around the scarred pores... from everything I have seen/been told, this laser should work on that kind of issue...?
From what I've read, the non-ablative laser encourages regrowth and healing, but part of that process is breaking down where there are excess areas of collagen as well, as a scar would normally (more slowly) over time anyway as part of the general healing process? So overall, the area of skin smoothes out..
Am I even making any sense?? I guess, point is, I just want to know the answer to the question above, how did your icepicks fare? And how long did it take to see a change in them?
Non-ablative only heats up the skin, but does nothing for the actual scar tissue.
This is from Palomar's site re: starlux 1540: "This [procedure] triggers a wound-healing process that replaces the disorganized, compacted scar tissue with healthy new tissue, greatly diminishing the appearance of the scar tissue."
But the term "scar tissue" is very vague, since there are many different types of scars.
On reconsideration, I used hypertrophic a bit too off-handedly - the scars were a bit raised in some areas (and these are very small scars, definitely would not be candidates for cortisone), but mostly it was just unevenly textured skin... in fact, to be most accurate, i think they would be described as some scarred pores (2 ice picks I guess, the but the skin immediately around them is very very slightly raised, though post-laser its more noticeable) - its basically unevenly textured skin, thickened around the scarred pores... from everything I have seen/been told, this laser should work on that kind of issue...?
From what I've read, the non-ablative laser encourages regrowth and healing, but part of that process is breaking down where there are excess areas of collagen as well, as a scar would normally (more slowly) over time anyway as part of the general healing process? So overall, the area of skin smoothes out..
Am I even making any sense?? I guess, point is, I just want to know the answer to the question above, how did your icepicks fare? And how long did it take to see a change in them?
Non-ablative only heats up the skin, but does nothing for the actual scar tissue.
This is from Palomar's site re: starlux 1540: "This [procedure] triggers a wound-healing process that replaces the disorganized, compacted scar tissue with healthy new tissue, greatly diminishing the appearance of the scar tissue."
But the term "scar tissue" is very vague, since there are many different types of scars.
But I think the main thing is they're saying its stimulating some sort of reorganization of the existing tissue, not only new growth on top of whats already there, if I'm getting this correctly. Which is why it might improve the texture of skin that is lightly "scarred" or compromised.
On reconsideration, I used hypertrophic a bit too off-handedly - the scars were a bit raised in some areas (and these are very small scars, definitely would not be candidates for cortisone), but mostly it was just unevenly textured skin... in fact, to be most accurate, i think they would be described as some scarred pores (2 ice picks I guess, the but the skin immediately around them is very very slightly raised, though post-laser its more noticeable) - its basically unevenly textured skin, thickened around the scarred pores... from everything I have seen/been told, this laser should work on that kind of issue...?
From what I've read, the non-ablative laser encourages regrowth and healing, but part of that process is breaking down where there are excess areas of collagen as well, as a scar would normally (more slowly) over time anyway as part of the general healing process? So overall, the area of skin smoothes out..
Am I even making any sense?? I guess, point is, I just want to know the answer to the question above, how did your icepicks fare? And how long did it take to see a change in them?
Non-ablative only heats up the skin, but does nothing for the actual scar tissue.
This is from Palomar's site re: starlux 1540: "This [procedure] triggers a wound-healing process that replaces the disorganized, compacted scar tissue with healthy new tissue, greatly diminishing the appearance of the scar tissue."
But the term "scar tissue" is very vague, since there are many different types of scars.
But I think the main thing is they're saying its stimulating some sort of reorganization of the existing tissue, not only new growth on top of whats already there, if I'm getting this correctly. Which is why it might improve the texture of skin that is lightly "scarred" or compromised.
The "reorganization" just seems like fancy market talk.
if the scarring is extremely superficial it might help, but 99% people on these boards have scarring that penetrates into the dermis, this is why you need ablated.
Besides you see the same results after 1 ablative co2 as you would with 5-8 non ablative treatments.
Yeah, I think perhaps my scarring is too mild and not appropriate to this discussion.
if the scarring is extremely superficial it might help, but 99% people on these boards have scarring that penetrates into the dermis, this is why you need ablated.
Besides you see the same results after 1 ablative co2 as you would with 5-8 non ablative treatments.
Yeah, I think perhaps my scarring is too mild and not appropriate to this discussion.
listen to DRa,
find someone who has a fractional ablative CO2 laser that penetrates into the dermis.
take into consideration that the epidermis on the face is only about .5mm thick.
Thats like 1/4 the thickeness of a quater!
all scarring happens in the dermis because that is where the oil glands that cause acne are.
There is really no such thing as scarring that only happens in the epidermis where the dermis isnt effected. Like a scab is a scar but does not penetrate the dermis so it vanishes by its self over time. Acne scars are formed in the dermis so you need a laser that penetrates into the dermis.
Also Ablative is the way to go because ablative literally destroys the scar tissue but its fractional so its going to leave other scars "untouched". that is why 2-3 treatments is good for optimal results. Non-Ablative only heats up the scar tissue, your body will not naturally get rid of scar tissue because it already recognizes it as healed.
And your acne scars are some what bad, because if they wernt "that bad" you wouldnt be on this forum now would you?
Lasers i recommend,
Fraxel Repair,
Deep FX
SmartXide
They all penetrate into the dermis.
He is board-certified in both dermatology and plastic surgery, which I think is somewhat of a rarity.
Did you actually verify both certifications? Just curious because I could only find him certified as follows:
Afshin David Rahimi
American Board of Dermatology - Dermatology - General
Via: https://www.certific...ity=los angeles
He is not listed with the American Board of Plastic Surgery:
He is board-certified in both dermatology and plastic surgery, which I think is somewhat of a rarity.
Did you actually verify both certifications? Just curious because I could only find him certified as follows:
Afshin David Rahimi
American Board of Dermatology - Dermatology - General
Via: https://www.certific...ity=los angeles
He is not listed with the American Board of Plastic Surgery:
https://abplsurg.org...n=SurgeonSearch
"Cosmetic surgery." It's a different but similar org.
http://www.americanboardcosmeticsurgery.org/View-user-profile.html?user=402
Thanks. I actually did figure that out after I posted, went to his site and then the other board's site.
There is however a major difference between a "plastic surgeon" and a "cosmetic surgeon".
http://www.realself.com/question/plastic-surgeon-vs-cosmetic-surgeon-whats-difference
Saying he's board certified in plastic surgery is simply not true, as a cosmetic surgeon has not had the same schooling or training as a plastic surgeon. Just saying.
Thanks. I actually did figure that out after I posted, went to his site and then the other board's site.
There is however a major difference between a "plastic surgeon" and a "cosmetic surgeon".
http://www.realself....hats-difference
Saying he's board certified in plastic surgery is simply not true, as a cosmetic surgeon has not had the same schooling or training as a plastic surgeon. Just saying.
Thanks for that link. I have never been to a codmetic surgeon, but the difference was clearly explained.
Side note to self: NEVER USE BENZOYL PEROXIDE 10% FOR SPOT TREATMENT ON FACE EVER AGAIN.
Jeebus, it's a good thing I took those pictures two days ago, because yesterday I spot treated with 10% BP and it resulted in like...eczema-style bumps on my face, and I don't have eczema!
Luckily, some hydrocortisone is calming that business down pretty fast.
Side note to self: NEVER USE BENZOYL PEROXIDE 10% FOR SPOT TREATMENT ON FACE EVER AGAIN.
Jeebus, it's a good thing I took those pictures two days ago, because yesterday I spot treated with 10% BP and it resulted in like...eczema-style bumps on my face, and I don't have eczema!
Luckily, some hydrocortisone is calming that business down pretty fast.
Oh man, why do you not like 10% BP? (I use it as part of my A.M. regimen, so this is why I ask.)
Congrats on all your progress.
Side note to self: NEVER USE BENZOYL PEROXIDE 10% FOR SPOT TREATMENT ON FACE EVER AGAIN.
Jeebus, it's a good thing I took those pictures two days ago, because yesterday I spot treated with 10% BP and it resulted in like...eczema-style bumps on my face, and I don't have eczema!
Luckily, some hydrocortisone is calming that business down pretty fast.
Oh man, why do you not like 10% BP? (I use it as part of my A.M. regimen, so this is why I ask.)
Congrats on all your progress.
I use 2.5% BP/1.2% clindamycin daily. Spot treatment of the 10% has caused these hard, red bumps not too dissimilar from eczema (a good from of mine suffers from eczema, so I have a general understanding of what it looks like), so I would rather not try that again.
It may have been the brand of BP itself (it was Neutrogena vanishing acne treatment) or simply the massive concentration, but all I know is that I have hydrocortisone on specific spots all over my face trying to damage control this business. Fortunately, after just a few hours of application of hydrocortisone, most of it seems to have gone away, but, then again, I had only applied the 10% BP for about three hours (I woke up because my face was itching from it).
Side note to self: NEVER USE BENZOYL PEROXIDE 10% FOR SPOT TREATMENT ON FACE EVER AGAIN.
Jeebus, it's a good thing I took those pictures two days ago, because yesterday I spot treated with 10% BP and it resulted in like...eczema-style bumps on my face, and I don't have eczema!
Luckily, some hydrocortisone is calming that business down pretty fast.
Oh man, why do you not like 10% BP? (I use it as part of my A.M. regimen, so this is why I ask.)
Congrats on all your progress.
I use 2.5% BP/1.2% clindamycin daily. Spot treatment of the 10% has caused these hard, red bumps not too dissimilar from eczema (a good from of mine suffers from eczema, so I have a general understanding of what it looks like), so I would rather not try that again.
It may have been the brand of BP itself (it was Neutrogena vanishing acne treatment) or simply the massive concentration, but all I know is that I have hydrocortisone on specific spots all over my face trying to damage control this business. Fortunately, after just a few hours of application of hydrocortisone, most of it seems to have gone away, but, then again, I had only applied the 10% BP for about three hours (I woke up because my face was itching from it).
Personally, I have not had this reaction to 10% BP. I have not ever experiened the hard, red bumps that you describe. I wish I knew more about BP to even understand why it would have caused that reaction in you, and not in me.
I use Clean and Clear Persa-Gel, and have only ever experienced somewhat of a drying effect. Which is kind of a welcome effect, considering that sometimes in warmer weather, my skin can become so oily that it looks wet.
Hi Dragz, i saw on realself that you estimated your improvement at 70% and 30%, a lot lower than you previously said on here. Have you felt like your results have gone down or was your initial observation due to microswelling? Sorry for such a prying question. Your l og has been extremely helpful, thank you so much! I don't know that i would have the confidence to log whatever i end up choosing.
Hi Dragz, i saw on realself that you estimated your improvement at 70% and 30%, a lot lower than you previously said on here. Have you felt like your results have gone down or was your initial observation due to microswelling? Sorry for such a prying question. Your l og has been extremely helpful, thank you so much! I don't know that i would have the confidence to log whatever i end up choosing.
I don't think I actually posted estimates here? It's been a while, but I don't remember posting specific percentages like that. But I can more or less agree with 70%, 30% with what has been my improvement.
Microswelling went away by about...2-3 weeks I think? I don't remember it that clearly at this point.
In any case, going to head back to Rahimi's office in about 2 weeks on July 28th for a second treatment just on the cheeks,
Okay, just had my second procedure about 6 hours ago. He did a 20% TCA peel on my whole face first, then aggressive Mixto on cheeks, and then three subcisions on my right cheek. During the subcisions, I heard a great deal of popping, which I had not heard before.
I am still a bit out of it due to meds, I'll post a better update later.
Okay, just had my second procedure about 6 hours ago. He did a 20% TCA peel on my whole face first, then aggressive Mixto on cheeks, and then three subcisions on my right cheek. During the subcisions, I heard a great deal of popping, which I had not heard before.
I am still a bit out of it due to meds, I'll post a better update later.
Will you be publishing Before and Afters of your results?
Okay, just had my second procedure about 6 hours ago. He did a 20% TCA peel on my whole face first, then aggressive Mixto on cheeks, and then three subcisions on my right cheek. During the subcisions, I heard a great deal of popping, which I had not heard before.
I am still a bit out of it due to meds, I'll post a better update later.
Will you be publishing Before and Afters of your results?
I forgot to take pictures the night before, but my picture from June 28 was more or less how it was yesterday, other than there having been a bit more improvement.
I'll take pictures afterward, as usual, but will probably not have any more objective pictures to post after August 28. I'll be moving to a new apartment then, so obviously the lighting won't be the same and the comparison pictures won't be accurate.