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oh my god, so no results. I mean it's not even worth it for 10 percent results if you have scars like I do, which are actually deeper than yours. Thank you for posting your honest results and demonstrating to all of us that this laser with recell combo is completely useless for acne scarring. i'm sorry about your results but you are doing all of us an incredible service with your honesty. I despair there may be no cure for some time to come.
What doesn't work for others may work for you, and vice versa.
Sorry, but you have no evidence to suggest that. I've actually now looked at several case studies on recell with Co2 and dermabrasion and each result shows almost no improvement --like a couple showed maybe 5 percent --is that worth $10 000 US!!??? Nope, no way (factoring in the treatment which itself is like 3000 pounds). Anyway money isn't the point. I HAVE SEEN NO EVIDENCE ON ANYONE WHERE RECELL HAS GIVEN MORE THAN 10 percent improvement (IF THAT) for acne scarring. I don't mean to be angry, but really, suggesting that it's all based on one's subjective experience --that's nonsense. This is science --there should be some degree to which these results are replicable. And forget replicable, I haven't even seen ONE case where scars where acne scars were improved to any degree with CO2 combo recell.
oh my god, so no results. I mean it's not even worth it for 10 percent results if you have scars like I do, which are actually deeper than yours. Thank you for posting your honest results and demonstrating to all of us that this laser with recell combo is completely useless for acne scarring. i'm sorry about your results but you are doing all of us an incredible service with your honesty. I despair there may be no cure for some time to come.
What doesn't work for others may work for you, and vice versa.
Sorry, but you have no evidence to suggest that. I've actually now looked at several case studies on recell with Co2 and dermabrasion and each result shows almost no improvement --like a couple showed maybe 5 percent --is that worth $10 000 US!!??? Nope, no way (factoring in the treatment which itself is like 3000 pounds). Anyway money isn't the point. I HAVE SEEN NO EVIDENCE ON ANYONE WHERE RECELL HAS GIVEN MORE THAN 10 percent improvement (IF THAT) for acne scarring. I don't mean to be angry, but really, suggesting that it's all based on one's subjective experience --that's nonsense. This is science --there should be some degree to which these results are replicable. And forget replicable, I haven't even seen ONE case where scars where acne scars were improved to any degree with CO2 combo recell.
Your logic doesn't make sense as that's saying that co2 laser don't work at all and while I personally doubt the efficiency of lasers - there have been many documented cases both on this forum and on medical journals of it working and thus why it's considered the "gold standard" for acne scars (fractional and/or full ablative). Recell doesn't hinder the lasers operation.....Same with dermabrasion.
Now onto recell. As I said in another thread, I think recell only has one purpose and that is to help with pigmentation/healing. Recell allows the operator of the laser or dermabrasion to be much more aggressive without many of the risks involved without recell. You can do a fully ablative traditional co2 laser (rather than fractional) and not have many of the infection/healing/pigmentation risks as you would if you did it without recell. Does that make it worth it? Depends on what you're going for. Is it worth it in the hopes that it will help your deep pocketed scars? I don't think it is. Is it worth it if you have a hypopigmanted scar or are worried about some of the risks of lasers? Yes.
oh my god, so no results. I mean it's not even worth it for 10 percent results if you have scars like I do, which are actually deeper than yours. Thank you for posting your honest results and demonstrating to all of us that this laser with recell combo is completely useless for acne scarring. i'm sorry about your results but you are doing all of us an incredible service with your honesty. I despair there may be no cure for some time to come.
What doesn't work for others may work for you, and vice versa.
Sorry, but you have no evidence to suggest that. I've actually now looked at several case studies on recell with Co2 and dermabrasion and each result shows almost no improvement --like a couple showed maybe 5 percent --is that worth $10 000 US!!??? Nope, no way (factoring in the treatment which itself is like 3000 pounds). Anyway money isn't the point. I HAVE SEEN NO EVIDENCE ON ANYONE WHERE RECELL HAS GIVEN MORE THAN 10 percent improvement (IF THAT) for acne scarring. I don't mean to be angry, but really, suggesting that it's all based on one's subjective experience --that's nonsense. This is science --there should be some degree to which these results are replicable. And forget replicable, I haven't even seen ONE case where scars where acne scars were improved to any degree with CO2 combo recell.
Your logic doesn't make sense as that's saying that co2 laser don't work at all and while I personally doubt the efficiency of lasers - there have been many documented cases both on this forum and on medical journals of it working and thus why it's considered the "gold standard" for acne scars (fractional and/or full ablative). Recell doesn't hinder the lasers operation.....Same with dermabrasion.
Now onto recell. As I said in another thread, I think recell only has one purpose and that is to help with pigmentation/healing. Recell allows the operator of the laser or dermabrasion to be much more aggressive without many of the risks involved without recell. You can do a fully ablative traditional co2 laser (rather than fractional) and not have many of the infection/healing/pigmentation risks as you would if you did it without recell. Does that make it worth it? Depends on what you're going for. Is it worth it in the hopes that it will help your deep pocketed scars? I don't think it is. Is it worth it if you have a hypopigmanted scar or are worried about some of the risks of lasers? Yes.
I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, as you yourself concede recell in combination with any ablation treatment(dermabrasion or laser or whatever) has not shown to improve depressed scars (boxcar, rolling, icepick). So there we go, for all of you who are interested in having aggressive CO2 laser therapy for acne scars, with the understanding that it will give you 10 percent improvement at BEST, IF YOU ARE VERY LUCKY (oh and if anyone want to dispute this show me just 3 before and afters, I only ask for 3 before and afters in consistent lighting(the exact same lighting preferably artificial, which is how they do proper before and afters in a laboratory or medical setting) out of the tens of thousands or more cases in which CO2 has been the "gold standard" as you put it to demonstrate that it works to that degree and I concede that there is ANY point in using recell and laser combo for acne scars.
oh my god, so no results. I mean it's not even worth it for 10 percent results if you have scars like I do, which are actually deeper than yours. Thank you for posting your honest results and demonstrating to all of us that this laser with recell combo is completely useless for acne scarring. i'm sorry about your results but you are doing all of us an incredible service with your honesty. I despair there may be no cure for some time to come.
What doesn't work for others may work for you, and vice versa.
Sorry, but you have no evidence to suggest that. I've actually now looked at several case studies on recell with Co2 and dermabrasion and each result shows almost no improvement --like a couple showed maybe 5 percent --is that worth $10 000 US!!??? Nope, no way (factoring in the treatment which itself is like 3000 pounds). Anyway money isn't the point. I HAVE SEEN NO EVIDENCE ON ANYONE WHERE RECELL HAS GIVEN MORE THAN 10 percent improvement (IF THAT) for acne scarring. I don't mean to be angry, but really, suggesting that it's all based on one's subjective experience --that's nonsense. This is science --there should be some degree to which these results are replicable. And forget replicable, I haven't even seen ONE case where scars where acne scars were improved to any degree with CO2 combo recell.
Your logic doesn't make sense as that's saying that co2 laser don't work at all and while I personally doubt the efficiency of lasers - there have been many documented cases both on this forum and on medical journals of it working and thus why it's considered the "gold standard" for acne scars (fractional and/or full ablative). Recell doesn't hinder the lasers operation.....Same with dermabrasion.
Now onto recell. As I said in another thread, I think recell only has one purpose and that is to help with pigmentation/healing. Recell allows the operator of the laser or dermabrasion to be much more aggressive without many of the risks involved without recell. You can do a fully ablative traditional co2 laser (rather than fractional) and not have many of the infection/healing/pigmentation risks as you would if you did it without recell. Does that make it worth it? Depends on what you're going for. Is it worth it in the hopes that it will help your deep pocketed scars? I don't think it is. Is it worth it if you have a hypopigmanted scar or are worried about some of the risks of lasers? Yes.
I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, as you yourself concede recell in combination with any ablation treatment(dermabrasion or laser or whatever) has not shown to improve depressed scars (boxcar, rolling, icepick). So there we go, for all of you who are interested in having aggressive CO2 laser therapy for acne scars, with the understanding that it will give you 10 percent improvement at BEST, IF YOU ARE VERY LUCKY (oh and if anyone want to dispute this show me just 3 before and afters, I only ask for 3 before and afters in consistent lighting(the exact same lighting preferably artificial, which is how they do proper before and afters in a laboratory or medical setting) out of the tens of thousands or more cases in which CO2 has been the "gold standard" as you put it to demonstrate that it works to that degree and I concede that there is ANY point in using recell and laser combo for acne scars.
I don't think you can realistically say lasers only help 10%. Do they work for everyone? No. Also, keep in mind that almost everything i've read in regards to lasers says 2-3 treatments are required in regards to acne scars (usually the first one gives 10-30% improvement and then the second one jumps it to 30-50% range as shown in the studies I linked). Though, I agree that recell isn't usually worth it. Lasers also depend on a ton on the settings being used - for example in this case "He did this on my entire face, one pass" - which doesn't make sense as most doctors go over the scarred areas 2-4 times for maximum effect.
I wish we had something better - but I think subcision & fracational co2 laser is the way to go for the time being, in a group of 2-3 sessions. That should cost probably around $1500-3000, whereas recell alone is ~$3000.
This if for fractional - old school co2 usually got better results.
User from here with what I would say is significant improvement:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/315693-asian-doing-mixto-for-acne-scars-on-cheeks/
Some studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22618157
"Sixty-four percent of the patients (28/44) had an improvement of between 51 and 75 % after more than two sessions of the combination of laser treatments. The average overall improvement was 52.50 % (±12.25 %). Three patients achieved improvement of >75 %."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22973388
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22671310
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22766970
oh my god, so no results. I mean it's not even worth it for 10 percent results if you have scars like I do, which are actually deeper than yours. Thank you for posting your honest results and demonstrating to all of us that this laser with recell combo is completely useless for acne scarring. i'm sorry about your results but you are doing all of us an incredible service with your honesty. I despair there may be no cure for some time to come.
What doesn't work for others may work for you, and vice versa.
Sorry, but you have no evidence to suggest that. I've actually now looked at several case studies on recell with Co2 and dermabrasion and each result shows almost no improvement --like a couple showed maybe 5 percent --is that worth $10 000 US!!??? Nope, no way (factoring in the treatment which itself is like 3000 pounds). Anyway money isn't the point. I HAVE SEEN NO EVIDENCE ON ANYONE WHERE RECELL HAS GIVEN MORE THAN 10 percent improvement (IF THAT) for acne scarring. I don't mean to be angry, but really, suggesting that it's all based on one's subjective experience --that's nonsense. This is science --there should be some degree to which these results are replicable. And forget replicable, I haven't even seen ONE case where scars where acne scars were improved to any degree with CO2 combo recell.
Your logic doesn't make sense as that's saying that co2 laser don't work at all and while I personally doubt the efficiency of lasers - there have been many documented cases both on this forum and on medical journals of it working and thus why it's considered the "gold standard" for acne scars (fractional and/or full ablative). Recell doesn't hinder the lasers operation.....Same with dermabrasion.
Now onto recell. As I said in another thread, I think recell only has one purpose and that is to help with pigmentation/healing. Recell allows the operator of the laser or dermabrasion to be much more aggressive without many of the risks involved without recell. You can do a fully ablative traditional co2 laser (rather than fractional) and not have many of the infection/healing/pigmentation risks as you would if you did it without recell. Does that make it worth it? Depends on what you're going for. Is it worth it in the hopes that it will help your deep pocketed scars? I don't think it is. Is it worth it if you have a hypopigmanted scar or are worried about some of the risks of lasers? Yes.
I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, as you yourself concede recell in combination with any ablation treatment(dermabrasion or laser or whatever) has not shown to improve depressed scars (boxcar, rolling, icepick). So there we go, for all of you who are interested in having aggressive CO2 laser therapy for acne scars, with the understanding that it will give you 10 percent improvement at BEST, IF YOU ARE VERY LUCKY (oh and if anyone want to dispute this show me just 3 before and afters, I only ask for 3 before and afters in consistent lighting(the exact same lighting preferably artificial, which is how they do proper before and afters in a laboratory or medical setting) out of the tens of thousands or more cases in which CO2 has been the "gold standard" as you put it to demonstrate that it works to that degree and I concede that there is ANY point in using recell and laser combo for acne scars.
I don't think you can realistically say lasers only help 10%. Do they work for everyone? No. Also, keep in mind that almost everything i've read in regards to lasers says 2-3 treatments are required in regards to acne scars (usually the first one gives 10-30% improvement and then the second one jumps it to 30-50% range as shown in the studies I linked). Though, I agree that recell isn't usually worth it. Lasers also depend on a ton on the settings being used - for example in this case "He did this on my entire face, one pass" - which doesn't make sense as most doctors go over the scarred areas 2-4 times for maximum effect.
I wish we had something better - but I think subcision & fracational co2 laser is the way to go for the time being, in a group of 2-3 sessions. That should cost probably around $1500-3000, whereas recell alone is ~$3000.
This if for fractional - old school co2 usually got better results.
User from here with what I would say is significant improvement:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/315693-asian-doing-mixto-for-acne-scars-on-cheeks/
Some studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22618157
"Sixty-four percent of the patients (28/44) had an improvement of between 51 and 75 % after more than two sessions of the combination of laser treatments. The average overall improvement was 52.50 % (±12.25 %). Three patients achieved improvement of >75 %."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22973388
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22671310
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22766970
Hi acnescar123. Okay, first I want to thank you for actually re-igniting some minimal degree of hope, however skeptical I still am of all this. The three pics you presented, in all honesty are not the most convincing part. I'll grant in those examples maybe 10-15 percent improvement. And I say this is a skeptical estimate because, as I'm sure you're aware of if you have scarring at all yourself, even a slight change in the angulation of light came create a dramatic difference in how your scars look --so in the examples of the pics you posted, each photo does not have the exact same angulation or cropping, just look at where the noses are cropped in the first two pictures. And in the third the glare of light --the shiny highlight at the temples and underorbital area is missing the supposedly improved after pic. So yes, the before and after pics look slightly different, but not because of any improvement in the acne scars. I would assume that if you assume the lighting is consistent across before and after pictures then yes, there is MAYBE 10 percent improvement, maybe 15 percent --which honestly hardly seems worth much at all.
ALL OF THAT SAID, the photos which for the first time gave me SOME hope were the patients of that patient DRAGZ --and I thank you for that. He had maybe a good 30-40 percent improvement regardless of light angulation and if you added that he might do another couple of rounds several months apart then WOW, you might be on to something. The possibility of some kind of real, substantial improvement is conceivable. Something that could keep one holding on for a few more years until something even better comes out. And perhaps with the addition of fillers etc. one could obtain maybe even a 60 percent improvement through these technologies alone, which honestly MIGHT allow me to reach the state where I actually do not CRINGE everytime I look at a reflection of myself in the mirror or through a window. So I thank you for demonstrating that things are not HOPELESS. That there is something at least worth a try. I'll say this, what perhaps convinced me of anything to begin with is that this doctor who practiced DRAGZ's laser surgery actually used multiple heads on the laser (a shaving head, etc. etc.) and this suggests to me that indeed part of the benefit might come from a doc who knows how to expertly wield the laser device. This all give me hope, and I thank you for that. I will probably have the surgery sometime later this summer and I will most probably use Dragz's very doctor. I've seen too, too many results from lasers that show none if any improvement, and moreover that any improvement was simply the result of inflammation which occurred soon after surgery.
Whoa, what is going on with my post, it has been taken over by other peoples' faces. I skimmed through what was said, and all I can say is that there was one pass with the laser over my face, followed by sanding my face, dermasanding. There was only one pass despite what other people say. My face still looks the same from when I last posted pictures.
I am still not happy about my ice pick scarring and the scarring around my chin, and I'm going to go ahead with TCA cross to try and fix this.
