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5 years? that's nothing. Optimism is the key to my sanity for the time being you know?
Here's a question for you anna. You seem to be very well informed and studied (at least more than I at this point). The last doctor who gave me any hope at all to remove my stretch marks told me that a tummy tuck would do it and felt to see my loose skin. I had enough loose enough at the time that he said it would be possible, but the scar from the surgery would be visible. This is the only method they can think of for me. Do you think I should go on and perfect my body to where I know it should be (very fit and muscular - I'm 5' 11" now @ 160 lbs.), and wait for this miracle cure in the time alloted? I know there are no promises there, but there are no promises that this tummy tuck procedure will work either, am I right?
If I do this now, will there be any possibility to remove the surgical scar later on?
I do know! But again we don't have any guarantees so love yourself regardless okay?!
I had a friend who had severe stretch marks and loose skin on her lower stomach from childbirth. Essentially, what they did is pulled down the skin below the bikini line and removed it and created a new belly button. She has a surgical scar now on her bikini line but is very happy with the overall result. With Renovo's product line of Juvista and Juvidex, when they come to market ,the severity of such a suture line should be mimized. This is all assuming you don't have any complications. Many people who have tummy tucks have complications amongst the most severe are adhesions and distortion along with pain. Ask your doctor for references and talk to people who have had it done. I really can't make a promise to you and tell you that within five years the cure will be here. I do think within the next year we will know more about what will soon be possible. Hope that helps!
Anna
I've just been going through my documents and I've come across this article. Any of you lot heard of Ilomastat?
Drug smooths the way to healingNew Scientist vol 178 issue 2400 - 21 June 2003, page 14
A failed cancer treatment has proved highly effective at limiting scar formation following eye surgery. Will it work elsewhere in the body too?
A DRUG originally developed to treat cancer has been found to dramatically reduce scarring of the eye. In theory, the drug should also reduce scarring in other tissues, including the skin.
Studies by a team led by Peng Tee Khaw at the Moorfields Eye Hospital in London suggest that the drug Ilomastat can reduce scarring by as much as 80 per cent, and that the healed area has a more normal structure. "This is a dramatic reduction in scar tissue," says Khaw. And since the same scarring mechanism controls the way tissues heal throughout the body, he says, the drug should reduce scarring after burns or plastic surgery too.
Scarring is at least partly due to the body's rush to try and close any wound as soon as possible to prevent infections. Cells near and in the wound release enzymes called matrix metalloproteinases, or MMPs (also called collagenases), that break down the intricate collagen matrix that holds cells together. It's a case of having to break it before you can remake it, says Khaw.
As the complex collagen structure is broken down, cells called fibroblasts migrate to the wound and the surrounding area, and actively begin to contract the tissue, a bit like gardeners compacting cuttings for the compost heap after pruning a bush. This contraction process can continue for months after an injury. The contraction helps to close the wound, but the end result is a disorderly mass of collagen that forms disfiguring and sometimes painful scar tissue.
"Contraction is one of the greatest enemies of tissue regeneration," says Khaw. It is a particularly big problem after eye operations, he adds, because the precise positioning of collagen proteins in the matrix affects the optical properties.
Various drugs are already used to reduce scarring of the eye, including anti-cancer drugs that trigger cell suicide, or apoptosis. But these drugs are far from ideal, since by killing cells they prevent healing as well as scarring, and can occasionally cause complications.
It has long been suspected that MMPs played an important role in wound healing, so Khaw's team decided to test the effects of various MMP inhibitors. These inhibitors, including Ilomastat, were developed to treat cancer, as it was thought that preventing the breakdown of the collagen matrix might stop cancerous cells migrating around the body. But the drugs were not effective.
Tests on tissue grown in culture, however, show that Ilomastat can reduce contractile scarring by up to 80 per cent. And when Khaw's team injected it into the inner lining of the eyes of rabbits after they had undergone a type of surgery used to treat glaucoma, there was also a dramatic reduction in scarring.
"We appear to be regulating the way the individual fibroblasts remodel and migrate within the matrix," Khaw says. "The tissue appears to be healthy and functioning." The team is now looking for partners to develop the method further and get it to human trials.
Other scarring experts still need convincing. "I don't think it will transfer beyond eyes," says Mark Ferguson at Manchester University. In the past, he says, other groups have tried using MMP inhibitors on the skin but they found that it actually prevents healing.
But Khaw says that these researchers applied MMP inhibitors directly to the surface of the skin, even though the contraction that leads to scarring occurs beneath the outermost layer of skin. His method involves injecting Ilomastat into the underlying layers where the contraction occurs.
Timing is also crucial, Khaw says. If the inhibitors are applied too soon, before contraction has started, then healing is indeed impaired. Recent studies of mice in which one or more of the genes that code for MMPs have been "knocked out" have also revealed noticeable differences in the healing process, Khaw adds - further evidence that that MMPs play a key role in healing in all tissues.
http://www.quickmedtech.com/news-informati...cles-210603.php
Great post Kirk!
It seems like this is an important part of the overall scarless healing puzzle and I have to question Ferguson's motives for poo-pooing it. Interesting here that they are saying that collagenase is a culprit. I have also read exactly the opposite where doctors say we don't create enough collagenase to break down scar tissue and that is why we scar. Here they are saying that it dissolves the collagen and therefore the disorganized collagen has to step in and we wind up scarring. What we need is an exact play by play of EVERYTHING that happens in fetal healing to make it perfect.
I'll look at this more closely!
Thanks!
Anna
I've been pondering and really think that we need to do is start a scar treatment fund raising foundation (not for scar prevention research, but rather to treat existing scars). When there is money at stake researchers come to you with their ideas. Currently we pour over research papers hoping for a glimmer of hope or read misleading marketing propoganda from companies. If we were able to raise enough money we could start a foundation with a purpose of curing people of existing scars, and do somewhat like a 'Consumer Report' of scar treatments. We would be able to rate them so people that come to this board would have an unbiased way to assess efficacy.
I have a bit of experience with fund raising, but would be willing to step into this role with more commitment.
What are people's thoughts on this as an overall concept?
I might start a separate thread if people have positive replies...
Thanks in advance for your input!
Anna
Thanks Won Won,
I would think that many of the people who spend time on this board would want to. I know I would!
Interesting Link:
http://www.scar-keloid.com/en/index.html
The Japan Scar Workshop was established in 2006. This workshop is an activity intended to allow for an information exchange about scar management among clinicians, researchers and paramedics. This Workshop was formed in response to the need for further scientific research in the formation and management of scars. The main topics of interest for this workshop are: 1. Keloid and Hypertrophic scarring, 2. Acne scarring, 3. Mature Scarring, and 4. Scar contracture. Of course, we welcome the input and participation of all clinical and basic researchers related to scar management, their prevention, and treatment.
They just had their second annual meeting at the end of August. Hopefully they will be posting papers from that meeting soon!
Thanks, Anna
Why was I the only one with positive feedback here? Am I the only one who believes that Anna's idea is really good? Think about it. This would be our own personal consultant board for acne.org which would be free to the public who would participate by donating and questioning real products. I don't think that this is such a fictionalized piece of work people. We can have scarless healing soon. Let's encourage people like Anna who want to find cures, and who have a lot of knowledge.
C'mon. If you all want something big, speak up here.
Why was I the only one with positive feedback here? Am I the only one who believes that Anna's idea is really good? Think about it. This would be our own personal consultant board for acne.org which would be free to the public who would participate by donating and questioning real products. I don't think that this is such a fictionalized piece of work people. We can have scarless healing soon. Let's encourage people like Anna who want to find cures, and who have a lot of knowledge.
C'mon. If you all want something big, speak up here.
BTW I think it a good idea worthy of every effort... And so does everybody who reads this forum, being something like that would be for their benefit.
Well right now there are 587 people on the site. Just think, if everyone donated $10 that's already $5,870. And we all know thousands of people come to this site for info. I would donate to get unbiased and HONEST information to help me make an informed decision on how to treat my scars. Think of all the money, pain and suffering (emotional and physical) we waste through "trial and error". In the long run, it would pay off.
Well right now there are 587 people on the site. Just think, if everyone donated $10 that's already $5,870. And we all know thousands of people come to this site for info. I would donate to get unbiased and HONEST information to help me make an informed decision on how to treat my scars. Think of all the money, pain and suffering (emotional and physical) we waste through "trial and error". In the long run, it would pay off.
PS..."glimmerofhope" is the little light inside of me that gives me faith in a procedure that will help get rid of my scars.
Thanks ALL!
I started a new thread:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Acne-Scar....htm l''
I'm going to spend some time now researching the US fund raising laws. Let's hope this is the seed that grows into our cure!
My Best!
Anna
Just a wild musing...
Let us just say that true and complete regeneration becomes possible...how would you feel about true complete regeneration. Think about the implications?
Gentlemen, would you want your foreskins to regrow?
Ladies, would you want the nose you had (refined) when you were in your teen years to grow back?
Would you be okay with not having any piercings you had remain open?
Envision how you would want this world to look. Thoughts?
I would give to a fund for more scar research for sure, but I don't think complete regeneration will be found. I think it's like asking for the fountain of youth. Some people may get lucky and get 99% improvement of scars and others will not and have to accept that or possibly make it worse thru invasive or risky treatments. I think more research is great for understanding, but even with all the implants and nose jobs and tummy tucks doctors cannot change the quality of the skin that much, you will have adit marks from lipo or scars from the tummy tuck, the only new endeavor will be to prevent the scars in the first place. I think the body can only regenerate so much with skin, one day we will all be old and not so attractive. 
Hi Tricia,
I think that a lot of people assume that regeneration will/would guarantee the fountain of youth, but I don't think this is the case. Lizards, MRL Mice and rabbits have greater regenerative capacity than we do, but even lizards who can consistently regenerate lost limbs only live 15 years. I think longlevity has more to do with the number of telomeres were possess than anything else.
Thanks!
Anna
Hi Tricia,
I think that a lot of people assume that regeneration will/would guarantee the fountain of youth, but I don't think this is the case. Lizards, MRL Mice and rabbits have greater regenerative capacity than we do, but even lizards who can consistently regenerate lost limbs only live 15 years. I think longlevity has more to do with the number of telomeres were possess than anything else.
Thanks!
Anna
I think you mean the length of telomeres. You always have the same number, they just get shorter.
Well I wasn't really meaning fountain of youth being we live forever, but just the thought that we could look young when we are old. If it ever is discovered that we can regenerate skin that is flawless it will do away with wrinkles as well. It will mean tighter skin, no age spots, everything. Right now the retionoids will help with scarring because it does aid in reprogramming skin and there is lasers, but I think regeneration gives the idea of something unattainable. I am using the apeel correct from perfectcomplexion now because it seems to tighten my scars a bit and give the illusion of tighter skin. All I can hope for is in a year my skin will look better too, but I know it is a slow process. If you damage your skin in quick ways it won't regenerate well but slowly the body can be reprogrammed bit by bit thru retinoids. If scarring is too deep, it is less likely to work.
I've read that anything that multiplys cells to quick can be cancer causing too. The first one to regenerate their face may have skin cancer shortly after 
Lizards are so different from us, they are lucky they can regenerate but I wouldn't want their lizard skin 
I hope I'm wrong and we can all have flawless faces. I'm thinking the progress of makeup may hold more potential though.
Just a wild musing...
Let us just say that true and complete regeneration becomes possible...how would you feel about true complete regeneration. Think about the implications?
Gentlemen, would you want your foreskins to regrow?
Ladies, would you want the nose you had (refined) when you were in your teen years to grow back?
Would you be okay with not having any piercings you had remain open?
Envision how you would want this world to look. Thoughts?
I'll never count this out as an impossibility. Unlikely, yes. Impossible, who even knows?
I must say that I'm ready for a foreskin. I hear it's more pleasurable anyways. (Catch the analogy here please)
Renovo's Juvista completes another 'successful' phase II trial
STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT EFFICACY OF JUVISTAA DEMONSTRATED IN PHASE 2 TRIAL USING DRUG SUBSTANCE MANUFACTURED BY LONZA BIOLOGICS
Renovo Group plc (LSE: RNVO), the biopharmaceutical company developing drugs for the prevention and reduction of scarring at multiple body sites, today announces highly positive Phase 2 clinical trial results for its lead drug, Juvista (human recombinant TGFI3), for the first time using Lonza manufactured drug substance.
Renovo licensed the worldwide development and commercialisation rights for Juvista, to global specialty biopharmaceutical company, Shire plc (LSE: SHP, NASDAQ: SHPGY, TSX: SHQ) in June 2007, with the exception of the European Union where Renovo retained all rights.
Phase 2 Clinical Trial 0050 Highlights
a Trial meets its primary endpoint and is highly statistically significant (p<0.0001)
a Demonstrates clinical efficacy of Lonza manufactured, microbially derived, drug substance, proposed to be used in Phase 3 trials and commercial supply
a Supports 200ng/100ul/linear cm of wound margin as an appropriate dose for Phase 3 studies and establishes a broad response range (50-500ng)
a Fifth statistically significant Phase 2 efficacy trial reported for Juvista
This trial was a single-centre, randomised, double-blind, placebo controlled Phase 2 study designed to investigate the impact of varying doses of Juvista given once at the time of surgery. Healthy male and female volunteers (aged 18-72) were given Juvista doses of 5, 50, 200 and 500 ng per 100ul per linear cm of incision, as well as placebo. The trial used for the first time drug substance manufactured by Lonza in the lyophilised formulation intended for Phase 3 and commercial supply.
This study confirmed previous trials and showed that scars resulting from wounds treated with Juvista show improved appearance compared to placebo treated wounds on the same subject. These results are based upon an evaluation of scars over a time period beginning at week 6 until 7 months post surgery, indicating a permanent regeneration of more normal skin.
This is the fifth statistically significant Phase 2 efficacy trial reported for Juvista. It was the first time that 500ng given once had been assessed for efficacy.
The 50ng and 500ng doses were both statistically significant (p=0.0018 & p=0.0009 respectively), demonstrating a broad dose response window. In line with previous studies, 200ng produced the greatest magnitude of effect (p<0.0001), suggesting that this may be an appropriate dose to select for Phase 3 clinical trials. Following dosing with 200ng the response rate (71%), as assessed from photographs at 7 months by an independent external panel, was similar to that reported previously.
Good to see but shame we can't actually view the visible results in terms of scar tissue reduction. At least it seems they have finally settled on an optimum dose for Juvista of 200ng/100ul/linear cm of wound margin, given once at the time of surgery (with a broad dosage window of 50-500ng/100ul/linear cm).
Hi Tricia,
I think that a lot of people assume that regeneration will/would guarantee the fountain of youth, but I don't think this is the case. Lizards, MRL Mice and rabbits have greater regenerative capacity than we do, but even lizards who can consistently regenerate lost limbs only live 15 years. I think longlevity has more to do with the number of telomeres were possess than anything else.
Thanks!
Anna
I think you mean the length of telomeres. You always have the same number, they just get shorter.
Hopeseed, Thanks for the correction. I think you're right, but longevity is tied to them and regeneration is a feature independent of lifespan.
Tricia, The body still ages even without photo aging, even though most of the visible marks of aging are sun related. There is loss of muscle tone, etc. The cells don't replicate as perfectly as they did when we were young...
I don't think regeneration is unattainable, but we will see, I believe the next year will be pivotal in determining if that is a possibility.
Hey Neca! Welcome Back! Great post...
Won Won, you and me both! ; )