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Thank you, kirk.
The man in the first three photos seemed to be doing traditional dermabrasion and the wound created was only confined to the upper reticular dermis.
Acell is developing an injectable form of ECM. According to the article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1820176...Pubmed_RVDocSum
"the clinical utility of an ECM biologic scaffold for
many clinical applications is typically restricted to topical administration
or to invasive surgical procedures that can accommodate
variations of the two-dimensional sheet forms."
So they are developing the 3-D gel form.
thats good news.
Thank you, kirk.
The man in the first three photos seemed to be doing traditional dermabrasion and the wound created was only confined to the upper reticular dermis.
Acell is developing an injectable form of ECM. According to the article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1820176...Pubmed_RVDocSum
"the clinical utility of an ECM biologic scaffold for
many clinical applications is typically restricted to topical administration
or to invasive surgical procedures that can accommodate
variations of the two-dimensional sheet forms."
So they are developing the 3-D gel form, which should be more suitable for wounds where necrotic tissues form and for excisional wounds which are closed by sutures, as Dr. Jones' patient did.
According the the VP of Acell, they are planning to release a topical gel not an injectable within the next year or so.
Thank you, kirk.
The man in the first three photos seemed to be doing traditional dermabrasion and the wound created was only confined to the upper reticular dermis.
Acell is developing an injectable form of ECM. According to the article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1820176...Pubmed_RVDocSum
"the clinical utility of an ECM biologic scaffold for
many clinical applications is typically restricted to topical administration
or to invasive surgical procedures that can accommodate
variations of the two-dimensional sheet forms."
So they are developing the 3-D gel form, which should be more suitable for wounds where necrotic tissues form and for excisional wounds which are closed by sutures, as Dr. Jones' patient did.
According the the VP of Acell, they are planning to release a topical gel not an injectable within the next year or so.
did he say what the benefits are with the gel compared to the other stuff?
The results of the facial wound are very impressive, however, the hand looks like it has definitely scarred. In the last photo of the hand on the doorknob, it is turned hiding the knuckles/top of the hand, but you can see the difference between that area and the area of the thumb - is it just me? or does anyone else see it?yea i see it as well. also the hand it turn to much and we cant get a good look at the burn marks.
What you have got to remember is those images were done way back in 2003-2005, the protocol involving this ECM would have been improved and anyway, the protocol here would be different to the one you or I would use as less emphasis would be put on complete regeneration.
Also the first three photos the regeneration is outstanding on the hand, complete scar free healing has been achieved.
Remember this was 2003-2005, It is now 2009 and ECM is now more potent.
Thank you, kirk.
The man in the first three photos seemed to be doing traditional dermabrasion and the wound created was only confined to the upper reticular dermis.
Acell is developing an injectable form of ECM. According to the article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1820176...Pubmed_RVDocSum
"the clinical utility of an ECM biologic scaffold for
many clinical applications is typically restricted to topical administration
or to invasive surgical procedures that can accommodate
variations of the two-dimensional sheet forms."
So they are developing the 3-D gel form, which should be more suitable for wounds where necrotic tissues form and for excisional wounds which are closed by sutures, as Dr. Jones' patient did.
According the the VP of Acell, they are planning to release a topical gel not an injectable within the next year or so.
did he say what the benefits are with the gel compared to the other stuff?
More malleable than the scaffold for certain wounds.
I've found a study on the stem cell spray gun in collaboration with Dr. Gerlach in Germany.
http://www.annalsplasticsurgery.com/pt/re/...#33;8091!-1
We should note a few things:
1)The article was received in Sept, 2006 and the longest time of follow-up was 18 months. This means that the treatment was done way back in 2004-05.(Hartmann et al. 2007)
2)It seems that the only difference with conventional technique is the use of the spray gun which "facilitate an even distribution of CEA over the wounds" (Hartmann et al. 2007).
3)The study term the cosmetic outcome as excellent.(Hartmann et al. 2007)
4)In the photo, I can't detect any traces of scarring of the man with severe burns.
5)The longer the follow-up, the better the results.(Hartmann et al. 2007)
6)The team is refining the product so that burns can heal without any scarring.
Reference
Hartmann, Bernd MD*; Ekkernkamp, Aline*; Johnen, Christa MDa; Gerlach, JArg C. MD, PhDa; Belfekroun, Claudia*; KAntscher, Markus V. MD, PhD (2007). Sprayed Cultured Epithelial Autografts for Deep Dermal Burns of the Face and Neck, Annals in Plastic Surgery, Vol58(1), p.70-73
I've found a study on the stem cell spray gun in collaboration with Dr. Gerlach in Germany.http://www.annalsplasticsurgery.com/pt/re/...#33;8091!-1
We should note a few things:
1)The article was received in Sept, 2006 and the longest time of follow-up was 18 months. This means that the treatment was done way back in 2004-05.(Hartmann et al. 2007)
2)It seems that the only difference with conventional technique is the use of the spray gun which "facilitate an even distribution of CEA over the wounds" (Hartmann et al. 2007).
3)The study term the cosmetic outcome as excellent.(Hartmann et al. 2007)
4)In the photo, I can't detect any traces of scarring of the man with severe burns.
5)The longer the follow-up, the better the results.(Hartmann et al. 2007)
6)The team is refining the product so that burns can heal without any scarring.
Reference
Hartmann, Bernd MD*; Ekkernkamp, Aline*; Johnen, Christa MDa; Gerlach, JArg C. MD, PhDa; Belfekroun, Claudia*; KAntscher, Markus V. MD, PhD (2007). Sprayed Cultured Epithelial Autografts for Deep Dermal Burns of the Face and Neck, Annals in Plastic Surgery, Vol58(1), p.70-73
Isoflous, can you perhaps extract the before and after photos from the pdf and post on this thread? This article requires a purchase. Could you do that?
Here are the photos from the study: ovidweb.pdf
FIGURE 2. A 34-year-old male patient (No. 3, Table 1) presenting with deep dermal burns after flame injury (A). Result at follow-up after 12 months (B).
I had to convet to PDF before it would allow me to post them.
The results of the facial wound are very impressive, however, the hand looks like it has definitely scarred. In the last photo of the hand on the doorknob, it is turned hiding the knuckles/top of the hand, but you can see the difference between that area and the area of the thumb - is it just me? or does anyone else see it?yea i see it as well. also the hand it turn to much and we cant get a good look at the burn marks.
What you have got to remember is those images were done way back in 2003-2005, the protocol involving this ECM would have been improved and anyway, the protocol here would be different to the one you or I would use as less emphasis would be put on complete regeneration.
Also the first three photos the regeneration is outstanding on the hand, complete scar free healing has been achieved.
Remember this was 2003-2005, It is now 2009 and ECM is now more potent.
That image is really amazing. The only thing that I wonder about it this: on the knuckles, there are no follicles, and so we have yet to see if facial skin can be so beautifully regenerated. Follicles in and of themselves are complex little structures, and because they are packed so densely on the face (100 per sq cm!!) they give facial skin a unique suppleness.
Franklins Tower also posted a photo of a study that Isoflous mentioned. Although the picture of the man is encouraging: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/post-a17028-.html we still don't have close-up photographs of what this skin looks like. I have seen photos of skin regenerated from deep second/superficial third degree facial wounds, using the MEBT (moist exposed burns therapy) and the texture was ghastly, as if it were bad acne scarring. Here's a link to the image: 
I've circled the areas that look bad. My guess is that follicles can sometimes be shaped like a pear, so when you take the skin down many layers, the pores will appear bigger. Does that make sense?
Anyways, it's interesting.
The results of the facial wound are very impressive, however, the hand looks like it has definitely scarred. In the last photo of the hand on the doorknob, it is turned hiding the knuckles/top of the hand, but you can see the difference between that area and the area of the thumb - is it just me? or does anyone else see it?yea i see it as well. also the hand it turn to much and we cant get a good look at the burn marks.
What you have got to remember is those images were done way back in 2003-2005, the protocol involving this ECM would have been improved and anyway, the protocol here would be different to the one you or I would use as less emphasis would be put on complete regeneration.
Also the first three photos the regeneration is outstanding on the hand, complete scar free healing has been achieved.
Remember this was 2003-2005, It is now 2009 and ECM is now more potent.
That image is really amazing. The only thing that I wonder about it this: on the knuckles, there are no follicles, and so we have yet to see if facial skin can be so beautifully regenerated. Follicles in and of themselves are complex little structures, and because they are packed so densely on the face (100 per sq cm!!) they give facial skin a unique suppleness.
Franklins Tower also posted a photo of a study that Isoflous mentioned. Although the picture of the man is encouraging: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/post-a17028-.html we still don't have close-up photographs of what this skin looks like. I have seen photos of skin regenerated from deep second/superficial third degree facial wounds, using the MEBT (moist exposed burns therapy) and the texture was ghastly, as if it were bad acne scarring. Here's a link to the image:
I've circled the areas that look bad. My guess is that follicles can sometimes be shaped like a pear, so when you take the skin down many layers, the pores will appear bigger. Does that make sense?
Anyways, it's interesting.
The suppleness is down to elastin which you do not get with crosslinked ECM
Regenerative Biology and Medicine
is reported to induce the regeneration of dermis with the normal orientation of collagen and elastin fibrils instead of the cross-linked collagen and lack of elastin seen in scar tissue (Wainwright et al., 1995) The fibroblasts that repopulate the Alloderm lack the myofibroblastic phenotype of granulation tissue and the grafts exhibit minimal contraction. The basement membrane of the dermis interacts with overlying keratinocytes to induce the formation of hemidesmosomes and Type VII collagen anchoring fibrils. Alloderm has been evaluated clinically for burns and is reported to provide good to excellent cosmetic appearance and functional performance (Wainwright et al., 1996: Lattari et al., 1997: Sheridan and Choucair. 1997)
It will have follicles. As I know it, from the knowledge I've personally sourced; non denatured ECM regenerates site specific tissue. Basically our specific local intracellular tissues crawl up and organise in our extracellular matrix in the specific order that is needed. The ECM degrades a fresh ECM scaffold takes its place, the intercellular tisues crawl up again and so on, and so on. They have been doing all the 3d nano proccesses in this since evolution began. Man can never create follicles in skin like our built in mechanism can. Basically we can understand the macro process but never the efficient 3d microprocess like the ECM and intercellular tissues can.
This mechanism is going on in your body right now.
I would be willing to do a test spot on an isolated shallow scar on my forehead. I am no daredevil, but I figure it's one spot and if it doesn't look exactly like the surrounding skin, it's only one spot. However, I do remember someone reporting back a few months ago about positive results on a scar being treated with Acell. I asked him whether the scar was treated on facial skin and he said he forgot to ask Mike Manning that. So, it's possible there are results out there of it being tested on facial skin.
I would be willing to do a test spot on an isolated shallow scar on my forehead. I am no daredevil, but I figure it's one spot and if it doesn't look exactly like the surrounding skin, it's only one spot. However, I do remember someone reporting back a few months ago about positive results on a scar being treated with Acell. I asked him whether the scar was treated on facial skin and he said he forgot to ask Mike Manning that. So, it's possible there are results out there of it being tested on facial skin.
all you need is to get a doctor that will do it.
I have been researching for months into MEBO.
It seems to be able to lead to excellent scarring for limited second degree wounds according to a researcher in Lebanon.
However, its antimicrobial property is poor, and therefore it is not suitable for deep second degree wounds or third degree wounds, as demonstrated by studys in Hong Kong and Singapore.
I have been researching for months into MEBO.
It seems to be able to lead to excellent scarring for limited second degree wounds according to a researcher in Lebanon.
However, its antimicrobial property is poor, and therefore it is not suitable for deep second degree wounds or third degree wounds, as demonstrated by studys in Hong Kong and Singapore.
I have seen photos of skin regenerated from deep second/superficial third degree facial wounds, using the MEBT (moist exposed burns therapy) and the texture was, in my opinion, not satisfactory at all. Almost similar to some kinds of acne scarring. Here's a link to the image:
I've circled the areas that look bad. My guess is that follicles can sometimes be shaped like a pear, so when you take the skin down many layers, the pores will appear bigger. Does that make sense? This is my concern with the concept of abrading away damaged skin and attempting to regenerate it. I got this image from the book written and compiled by the inventor of MEBO/MEBT. I paid over $125 for it as I was very intrigued with the written accounts of skin regeneration in it. If this is what is considered "scarless skin regeneration" then it's simply not acceptable to me. It's better, of course, then contractured scar tissue, but not at all aesthetically acceptable. This is our face.
Anyways, it's interesting. What do you guys think?
I have been researching for months into MEBO.
It seems to be able to lead to excellent scarring for limited second degree wounds according to a researcher in Lebanon.
However, its antimicrobial property is poor, and therefore it is not suitable for deep second degree wounds or third degree wounds, as demonstrated by studys in Hong Kong and Singapore.
I have seen photos of skin regenerated from deep second/superficial third degree facial wounds, using the MEBT (moist exposed burns therapy) and the texture was, in my opinion, not satisfactory at all. Almost similar to some kinds of acne scarring. Here's a link to the image:
I've circled the areas that look bad. My guess is that follicles can sometimes be shaped like a pear, so when you take the skin down many layers, the pores will appear bigger. Does that make sense? This is my concern with the concept of abrading away damaged skin and attempting to regenerate it. I got this image from the book written and compiled by the inventor of MEBO/MEBT. I paid over $125 for it as I was very intrigued with the written accounts of skin regeneration in it. If this is what is considered "scarless skin regeneration" then it's simply not acceptable to me. It's better, of course, then contractured scar tissue, but not at all aesthetically acceptable. This is our face.
Anyways, it's interesting. What do you guys think?
Holdontohope
I never had acne before but after burning my skin with a beauty product this is what i noticed about my skin. My skin is no longer all on the same level, i can see another layer . This bottom layer the skin looks quiet good, the pores are small. But the top layer the pores look big and deep, also some are scared pores. Plus there are areas on my face that looks like i have acne scarring.
I agreed, not impressed with the MEBT picture.
I did read an article by an dermatologist that kind of saying what you are referring to . He said if you resurfaced the skin too much either through dermabrasion or laser the pores may become larger because you are getting closer to the root of the pores. Maybe other posters who had laser or dermabrasion treatments can comment.
Hey I dont know you guys are into tarot reading and prediction stuff. But I happened to chance on this interesting thing. Wonder if the asker is one from our forum?
http://astrologyandpsychicpredictions.word...ory/proposition
From another Reader:
Hello, I represent an online community of individuals who suffer from acne scarring and other types of facial scarring (due to surgery, burns, etc). As of yet there are no procedures that can offer us any real improvement and so weare looking to the newly emerging field of tissue regeneration to yield a real solution. There is currently a global race between countries and scientists to see who can achieve perfect skin regeneration and scarless healing first. Many scientists are confident that humans contain the dormant capacity to regenerate tissue and organs, and that that can be turned on with proper gene-therapy and other types of stimulating treatments. Other scientists are working on means of aoerebuildinga lost or damaged tissues. But the truth is that we do not know for sure if any of this is truly possible. However, it is something that many scientists are working hard to figure out.
That said, with the impending global financial crisis, many of us have become disheartened that research that will lead to scarless healing/skin regeneration will lose steam or halt completely. Could you give us any insight into the following questions?:
1.) What do you forsee happening in the next 20 years with the progress of stem cell research and the development of other tissue regeneration technologies? How badly will they be affected by the financial crisis?
2.) Some of us in this online community have discussed at length contacting an existing research institute in hopes of starting a foundation within the institute devoted solely to skin regeneration. We would endeavor to raise funds by contacting millionaire/billionaire biotech investors around the globe. If scarless healing ever is achieved it will be worth billions. In these tumultuous financial times, is it even worth our effort to try and spearhead something like this? If not, when WILL it be the right time to start something like this?
3.) Will we ever make the scientific advancements & developments necessary to achieve perfect or near-perfect skin regeneration on individuals whoas skin has been badly damaged (i.e. acne scarring or third degree burns)?
4.) If so, when will this happen/what is the timeframe (i.e. 10 yearsa 20 yearsa.30 yearsa. 100 yearsa.. never?)
5.) From what country will the solution emerge?
We are essentially a group of people with deeply broken hearts, hanging onto hope that we arenat even sure is valid. Modern medicine does not currently have an answer for us, but it is our deepest hope that someday it will. However, if it is not to be in our lifetime, then knowing that would help all of us to move on and not spend any more time waiting in vain. Perhaps you can help ease the burden of aoenot knowinga by infusing our search with a little foresight into the future.
In Deepest Gratitude,
Octavia
Hi Octavia. Iam very sorry to hear about the plight of so many with this problem. I will try to tackle as much and as many of these questions as possible.
I asked the tarot if there would be any significant advancement in the next 10 years:
The tarot gave me a maybe.
It will depend on all of you. You will be able to sell this idea to a research/cosmetic or medical company, mainly for cosmetic reasons that can be applied to the larger population. You guys need to gather a think tank and figure out how your healing your condition could benefit the greater market. For example perhaps this condition if cured could lead to doctors using this treatment post surgery so people would not get scares. This would be especially appealing to the plastic surgery community. You also maybe able to convince researchers to get to the root of the problem with similar broader application. Perhaps if it is a genetic collegan problem then understanding how this gene works and repairing it may also be applied to how to enhance this gene in ordinary people so their skin can look perpetually youthful. Donat loose hope. You guys just need some angles outside of your group. I believe if you start working on it, and ask me this question again in six months or a year, after you have made a plan, there will be a very different outcome and the answer will be yes. You will see a cure. But you guys are going to have to make it happen.
You can do this even with the financial market in crisis. And actually, oddly this came up as an advantage because once the turmoil settles a bit, there will be people looking to invest in new technology, especially medical technology as the baby boomers age. And as we all know, they are the biggest generation on the planet. I have a strong feeling once you hone your plan you will find investors willing to help you get it to the next level.
I found this post to be important and timely:
I think anyone who has scars that affect them greatly will be interested.
A lot of us don't know how to help or where to start, that's why it's Wonderful to have Holdontohope who knows marketing and is passionate to the cause to lead the way !
I don't know if it's just the funding in companies that is the problem, I've been looking in the internet for companies or universities that are researching scarlesss healing and some of these researchers been studying for at least 20 yrs or more, i don't want to take anything away from them because i'm sure they are doing outstanding work. But i think maybe they need some new blood that will think out of the box, eg; sometimes i am trying really hard to solve a problem but not really making any progress until someone else comes in and gives me some new ideas.
I think we need to attract more young researchers to our cause.
idk if this was already posted. http://health.howstuffworks.com/extracellular-matrix.htm
