but still the fact is there is no sure way of getting rid of scars.i too would like it if researchers found a way to make my skin perfect again or much better than it is but im not holding my breath.i spent over 8k on fillers at clinic estetica over the past year.its far from perfect but better than nothing.i am making one more trip back next year and unless someone finds a great fix for scars im not wasting any more money on this stuff.

i spent over 8k on fillers at clinic estetica over the past year.its far from perfect but better than nothing.

8k in a year on fillers, man thats depressing. Hope its at least doing some good. Are they permanent fillers?

poor substitutes but when you have nothing better out there its not that bad.who know it might be a good 50 to 60 years or they never may find anything to get rid of scars or it could be next week.i wish someone would find something to make my skin perfect again but im not gonna hold my breath.its been 27 years since i first consulted about a dermabrasion and we havnt had much that really works in 27 years.i hear all this great news about stems cell but i havnt seen any applications in humans yet.

you said it all nikki

accepting scars is a bitter pill for anybody to swallow. The shallower they are, the easier to accept. The deeper, the more heartbraking it becomes. As I was looking in the mirror this evening I suddenly looked at my scars differently. Beauty really is skin deep isn't it? The scars are only a few milimetres deep. When you conider the size of the scars compared to the size of our bodies, they are so small. Yet cos they are on the face, they are so devastating to us.

BTW appologies for my behaviour earlier on in the thread. Unacceptable. Just frustrated thats all.

Based on all I have read I personally think that we are at a critically pivotal time right now where probably within the next year or so we will have a clearer idea of whether or not true regenerative treatments are in the offing. Therefore, I personally think that for some it might be beneficial to wait.

I have tried collagen injections, spot dermabrasion, TCA CROSS, and talked to lots of plastic surgeons and dermatologist about other treatments. I have had friends who were left much worse off after botched dermabrasions and laser treatments by supposed world renowned experts. It is a meaningless statement when doctors say scarring can be treated. Waving a voodoo doll over my head is a treatment. What all of us here want is results, not to be mislead into spending money on treatments which could lead us to be worse or no better off than we were before. The medical professionals should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this behaviour to proliferate.

All I can say is if someone is currently thinking about using fillers do not use something which will be permanent and synthetic in your body such as silicone or microspheres. If (and I believe when) regenerative medicine becomes available, those agents will cause difficulty to availing yourself to them as they will have to be removed prior to treatment.

Rupert, you are forgiven!

I believe were are all on our own path and need to make the choices that make sense to us. None of us should judge the other on those choices. We should merely be here to offer our opinions and support. This battle is hard enough as it is without rancor within the ranks.

My best to all of you!

Anna

nothing has been proved permanent...i dont think someone has had a filler in more than 30 years.and yes precise can be removed as with bio-alcimid.its not easy to remove but it can be removed.and who says you can't regenerate new skin with dermal fillers still there?we dont even know how to regenerate new skin yet.i think isologen is the closest thing to it.i know the usa military has funded research into growing new limbs,fingers and i heard that they can already grow mice penis's in labs but its anyone's guess when researchers can discover something that will work in human beings.we havnt even found a cure for cancer,aids,MD....those telethones have been going on for years and acne.we would even have a hard time getting back to the moon.i hope you are right and there is something major right around the corner but until then im going back for one more round of precise.i think dermal fillers might become more improved in the years to come.i was going to be a test patient for accutane a year before the fda approved back in 1981 or 1982...it was a long time ago!i thought after taking it my skin problems we going to be history but nooo.i had accutane the first day the fda approved it.if major breakthroughs in stem cell research yield any cures or in genetic engineering..i think it would be great.anna..i know how hard it must be waking up looking in the mirror every morning but neither you nor i know if or even something like this will ever happen.one thing i found that is cheep and helps approve the look of scars even though when u stop using it is the super cop from skinbio.it doesnt get rid of scars...it just makes them look better by tightening the skin.and there is make up you can buy until the day that we all hopefully will end acne and acne scarrring forever.

nikkigirl,

You raise some excellent points. I know there are dozens of diseases that have had a lot more attention and funding than acne scarring. The thing about scarring though is that it the succesful treatment of it would also address a myriad of other diseases and afflictions. All this with the mapping of the human genome and the use of megacomputers to compile all the information is serving all of us to compress what were previously unthinkable timelines.

Maybe I'm crazy for being as optimistic as I am, but I really think that we are on the verge of a major breakthrough. I used to come to this board a lot about five years ago. I became really disenchanted and didn't think much headway was being made. I thought I would sit tight to see what Renovo was coming up with and wait for their products to become available. The first of their products offering lineup will probably not do much to address our concerns. However, their subsequent offerings might. And frankly, there are many other companies and private research institues working on this and I think that Renovo may be outpaced by them anyway.

As a side note, the reason I stated those who were thinking of waiting for a regenerative approach should avoid artificial and more permanent fillers is that the regenerative signalling is pretty much agreed to be a bio-electric response. Synthetic materials are bio-electric resistors and therefore logically would block a bio-electric impulse.

I have read hundreds of scientific papers and journal entries in my research over the years so I know that the body of knowledge on this topic is immense and growing exponentially all the time.

Anyway, I thank you for your input and I will give the supercop a whirl!

Thanks again, Anna

The thing which has really stuck in the mind from this thread is Anna describing acne scars as

"mini amputations"

what a succinct and accurate way to put it. I would normally witter on for about 2 paragraphs to say the same thing. I am going to use that line in the future "basically acne scars are mini amputations." 100% true

I was thinking though, u can't blame new scarred people for not understanding the nature of scarring though. I remember when I first got mine and I thought "ah its Ok, I read on the internet you can get laser skin resurfacing".

I honestly believed that laser skin resurfacing would resurface the skin leaving it flat/resurfaced as the name implies. A bit like if u had a painter to come paint your bedroom white, you would expect at the end of it, to have white walls. lets face it, laser skin resurfacing would prob make u look worse, possible waxy skin, pigmentation screw ups and maybe even a few permanent burn marks.

then anna you would know that acne is mostly if not all cause by androgens...aka your sex hormone or testosterone.why do some people have sensative sebasious glands and some dont.rupert knows me from another forum and knows what i did to finally cure my acne.if they found are real cure for acne instead of going the extreme route i did but you know what...the first time in my life since i hit puberty i dont have to do something to keep my skin clear.i think acne sufferers get ripped more than any other group of people.we dont get any funding for our problem and suffer both mentally and phsycally and nobody really give a rats ass about us either.but then someone that has aids by sexual means get all kinds of freebes.

the problem is that acne whilst being a very simple problem is a genetic problem. It is an abnormal reaction of the sebaceous glands to normal levels of adult androgens. Everybody produces sebum, its what is needed to oil the skin to prevent it from drying out. However in acne sufferers the sebacious glands act abnormally and produce too much sebum. A blockage occurs, it gets infected, a spot is the result.

its so simple but its basically a genetic screw up. Accutane is the nearest "cure".

In a broad sense acne is similar to male pattern baldness. Always annoys me when bald people say

"I don't mind being bald cos it lets women know I have a lot of testosterone"

No. balding is an ABNORMAL reaction of the hair follicle to NORMAL levels of adult testosterone.

Rupert and nikkigirl,

I think that the medical profession is much to blame for the lack of understanding of acne scarring, in that they themselves don't understand it and there is still much ignorance being floated about. I personally think that I create a different quality of sebum, mine is more waxy and less oily. I have seen people with extremely oily skin who were spot free. However my skin rarely looks oily but I get blocked pores. I think the waxiness of my sebum is to blame. If it were oily it would flow through my pores. I think there are people who are genetically blessed to rarely get blocked pores, there are people who have sensitive and allergic skin who will breakout if they aren't careful of what they use on their skin and eat, and there are those who will breakout almost regardless of what they do. They say that acne cannot be caused by food choices and I would say that is true for the genetically blessed, however there are those where environment and habits take a toll.

nikkigirl, what did you do to alleviate your acne?

Rupert, so glad you found my assessment of acne scars as being min-amputations succinct. It is that realization that lead me to be researching the regenerative approach for scar treatments as the only one I feel will truly work. I have seen some sad results from lasers and dermabrasion.

PS: Has anyone heard from/of Neca? I know they have been having some severe flooding in the UK and I hope he is okay!

My best to all of you!

Anna

i went on estrogen and spiro and after 5 years...well lets just say i was a guy and just changed my sex because of this.this is how bad my skin was.2 weeks before i was to have the operation i had to go off everything.my skin started breaking out in cyst again.i got blood all over the hospital gowns in thailand.now for first time since before puberty...i dont have to struggle with my skin anymore.here's all what i had done since 2000......14 microdermbrasions,a co2 laser resurfacing,2 full face thermages,botox,sculptra injections,laser hair removal,scalp advance,type 3 forehead reconstruction,open rhinoplasty,upper lip reduction,chin and jaw feminazation,29 ccs of precise and scar subscion at clinic estetica in tijuana.srs and BA at phuket,thailand.i had my first round of accutane in 1981..i think that when the fda approved it...it was a long time ago.second round a few years later and it didnt work at all.had the anti-biotics,retin a,ect ect and nothing worked.i still like girls but i have to date gay girls now.one girl told me last week i was cute as a button,so i must make a pretty good looking girl except for the scarring.i put up with this acne crap for 35 plus years so i hope your right about something big being right around the corner.you might want to e-mail anna love the director of clinic estetica and ask her about anything new in scar research.by the way...i dont make are real good girl..i just get by but its better than the alternative life of suffering with cyst.

the thing is...nobody has ever regenerated a lost limb ect.some guy said he grew a new fingertip.the usa military is spending money on this.like i say...i dont know what the future will bring...it might be next week or never...and hope is eternal.anna..i would start saving your money for it now because it wont probably be cheep.i know my derm told me my skin looked a lot better when i was on the super cop stuff and i didnt tell him i was on it.i think it tightens the skin and the scars look better..sorta like a facelift.its like 50 to 60 dollars for about 4 or 5 months worth and might be the cheepest route to the big day comes.

i went on estrogen and spiro and after 5 years...well lets just say i was a guy and just changed my sex because of this.this is how bad my skin was.2 weeks before i was to have the operation i had to go off everything.my skin started breaking out in cyst again.i got blood all over the hospital gowns in thailand.now for first time since before puberty...i dont have to struggle with my skin anymore.here's all what i had done since 2000......14 microdermbrasions,a co2 laser resurfacing,2 full face thermages,botox,sculptra injections,laser hair removal,scalp advance,type 3 forehead reconstruction,open rhinoplasty,upper lip reduction,chin and jaw feminazation,29 ccs of precise and scar subscion at clinic estetica in tijuana.srs and BA at phuket,thailand.i had my first round of accutane in 1981..i think that when the fda approved it...it was a long time ago.second round a few years later and it didnt work at all.had the anti-biotics,retin a,ect ect and nothing worked.i still like girls but i have to date gay girls now.one girl told me last week i was cute as a button,so i must make a pretty good looking girl except for the scarring.i put up with this acne crap for 35 plus years so i hope your right about something big being right around the corner.you might want to e-mail anna love the director of clinic estetica and ask her about anything new in scar research.by the way...i dont make are real good girl..i just get by but its better than the alternative life of suffering with cyst.

OMG, you changed your sex because of how horrible your skin looked?

You poor thing! You've been through more than I could ever imagine. I wish you well!

yes ariana...i didnt have too many options left.i spent 18 hours under in the o.r. too.least my skin dont breakout any more.i also got jabbed with a needle about 350 times at clinic estetica.i think acne kinda screwed up my life.im not as optimistic as anna about finding something really good for scarring in the next few years.

nikkigirl,

I am at a loss. I am so sorry for everthing you have gone through. I am hopeful because of the articles I have read, but I definitely have my pessimistic days too...some really dark ones. The only thing I have some days is research. I have a lot of things to be thankful for but how I feel in my own skin can make everything else which might be wonderful hard to focus on. I wouldn't post here if I didn't believe what I was writing. I fear from some of the responses though that the optimism I have expressed incites anger in folks who don't want to be let down. I wish you happiness and love in your life nikkigirl. I wish that for all of us.

I do think the next few months will reveal if regeneration is a possibility in the near future.

Thanks for being open with us here.

Anna

Reading your post Anna the temptation is to say that you haven't accepted what has happened to you as regards scarring. However that would of course be absurdly hypocritical because if I had accepted the reality of me being scarred then I wouldn't be checking up on a scar messageboard would I?

However I have accepted that I will never have good skin. I only want to get a bit of fill in some scars then accept reality, I can't change the past. And I'm so weary and drained from the scar journey, I don't want this pursuit to be my whole life. It goes too quick.

I wish that on the horizon there was a procedure which renewed skin but even if there was it takes years and years and years to come on market.

i would have a game plan.....like save a certain amount of money each year for something researchers may come out with.im getting up in the age dept so my only option is probably dermal fillers.i just dont have much faith in lasers,thermage,saline,needling,dermabrasions ect.dermal fillers are far from perfect also.i doubt if my skin will ever be perfect either but least i dont have to put up with acne cyst.all i can tell you is my acne was due to androgens..aka testosterone.the only thing that worked was low doses of estrogen...premarin with a large dose of spiro..i went from 100 to 200 mgs a day.this was something i couldnt live the rest of my life on though because it causes heart attack,cancer ect so i went the whole way and got rid of my manhood bcause it was making my life a nightmare!anyway who thought 25 years ago you could feminize a male face and my face was pretty masculine.we should start getting organized..going on talk shows...having support groups.i wanna get on a national talk show because i know of no other person who ever did this because they had uncontrolable skin.i know some trans woman that detransitioned and went on testosterone but its a no go for me because of what testosterone does to my skin.the best i can do is either stay alone or be a lesbian.this acne and scar problem has been screwing up my life since i hit puberty...i think i might have been better getting an orch before i hit puberty and i never would have had this problem in the first place.

i know i read about accutane from a science digest about 2 years before the fda approved.i think i still have the magazine with the article in it.my derm at the time asked me how i knew about the drug.artefill has finally been aproved for use in the usa after years of test.isologen is an american company that still hasnt got fda approval for its usage in the usa yet.then there is stem cell research.my guess is as good as anybodys when something comes out to get rid of scars.the best thing i found to help the appearance was the super cop because it tightens the skin and gives the appearance of better looking skin but the scars remain.it reminds me of the movie...independence day...where they nuke a large city and the target remained.we get a co2 laser resurfacing and when it heals the scars remain.i think fillers and good old make up is really about it at this time.maybe we should start a new thread topic on ....the future treatments of acne scarring....on speculation what may be on the horizon and what science can do in the coming years.

To Rupert i think that what most reasonable people here is after, a noticable improvement in their scarring, not perfection. As you suggest it would take years for something to come on the market yet you, me and all else on this thread keep coming back so i think what people here are after is support and to know they are not alone.

Nikkigirl this thread is basically about what is on the horizon for scar treatments, so if we kept all the information located here that would be more beneficial than having different threads covering the same thing so anything you find just post here.

Anna i totally agreed with you when you said people don't want to believe in this happening in case they will be let down yet again. Although we differ in opinion to when it will happen i love your optimism anyway.

Have a great night all

Tom

so msn is the answer all along!!!

Here is something, though it seems a long way off:

UK-421045 selected for preclinical evaluation as topical antiscarring agent

 

 

August 6, 2007

 

 

Researchers have synthesized novel selective nonpeptidic inhibitors of procollagen C-proteinase (PCP), a key molecule for collagen deposition that leads to the development of fibrosis and scar tissue formation. Within this series of compounds, UK-421045 potently inhibited PCP (IC50 = 11 nM) and had high selectivity (more than 10,000-fold) over matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) involved in wound healing, such as MMP-1, -2, -9 and -13. In the human dermal fibroplasia model in vitro, UK-421045 blocked insoluble collagen deposition by 76% at 10 mcM, showing superiority to compounds in the series. Moreover, UK-421045 demonstrated good solubility in both aqueous and organic solvents and was also very effective at penetrating human skin in vitro (Fish, V.P. et al. J Med Chem 2007, Advance publication).

Cheers, happy researching...

Very interesting Kirk!

I cannot seem to find the full article yet, but I will keep trying. Interesting that at play would be a collagen inhibitor. There seems to be a major mistaken belief by many doctors that collagen is such a wonderful thing. In fact immediate disorganised collagen deposition seems to preclude regeneration. What is needed is the regeneration and or deposition of keratinocytes that can in turn product perfectly formed basketweave collagen with all the normal function and elasticity of normal skin.

Where did you find this?

Thank you!

Anna

Very interesting Kirk!

 

I cannot seem to find the full article yet, but I will keep trying. Interesting that at play would be a collagen inhibitor. There seems to be a major mistaken belief by many doctors that collagen is such a wonderful thing. In fact immediate disorganised collagen deposition seems to preclude regeneration. What is needed is the regeneration and or deposition of keratinocytes that can in turn product perfectly formed basketweave collagen with all the normal function and elasticity of normal skin.

 

Where did you find this?

 

Thank you!

Anna

I seem to have forgot to put a link in, here it is:

http://www.accessdermatology.com/detail.as...8&BYTYPE=15

You will have to register to see it, but the resgistration is free.

Cheers.