Acne.org Products
14 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:Lots of medicine is discovered by mistake and that's a good thing. Costarelis made his breakthrough scar discovery while he was studying hair loss. Penicillin was discovered by mistake and it changed the world. To say that we don't know how accutane works doesn't really make sense. It permanently shrinks sebum glands therefore slowing acne bacteria production.
Are you aware that we already have gene therapy now that is FDA approved? Luxturna is a gene therapy for hereditary blindness that was FDA approved. CRISPR is slowly becoming ready for humans. We don't know everything about genes but we know a lot more than we used to and we learn more everyday.
Also I don't get why people say there is no cure for cancer or baldness. I discussed cancer in my previous post but there are many drugs that are effective in stopping balding and hair transplants are very effective. What do you mean by cure? Do you think there will be a magic pill that will make acne scars disappear? Probably not. Will it be cheap? Also probably not. But I think there will be some sort of solution within 10 years.
Acne is a big problem for almost everyone. Accutane was discovered by mistake while trying to find a cure for cancer. It has bad side effects. I don't consider it a cure. It does help many though by reducing sebum which attracts the acne producing bacteria but this makes the body go out of whack. Many get serious side effects for clear skin. But will have scarring to some extent anyways once the acne lesions heal. It should be prescribed for severe cases. Now, it's been prescribed for almost everyone even for the smallest pimples by some dermatologists.
Severe acne leaves behind ugly scars and potential disfigurement. Most of us with a bad acne history have scarring to some extent.
Researchers have been trying to get an acne vaccine but they have failed. There's a leading dermatologist in California working on such a vaccine. The vaccine targets not the acne bacteria but rather its by-products which trigger body inflammation and produce pimples. The reason why most of us get acne in the first place is because of inflammation triggered by our own body. Others don't get this inflammation, their body doesn't go into defense mode in the presence of acne bacteria and just get regular blackheads time to time.
Acne products and the acne fighting industry generate millions through false advertising. Why would they invest money to stop acne in the first place. Acne is not life threatening. Most of the population, doesn't have the severe form of it. Only a few of us will get severe acne. Also, scar treatments are now generating millions for many unethical dermatologists and plastic surgeons. Do you think they want some scientists to find a way of restoring scar tissue into the normal basket weave pattern skin with sweat glands and hair?
The only way I believe of getting rid of our acne scars forever is when somebody finds a way of restoring normal skin for burn victims and preventing fibrosis in human organs. Only then can they expand into treating skin scars. This can take years to achieve unfortunately.
Small start ups are already taking baby steps. We have the South Korean company OLIX with OLX101 currently being in clinical trials in the UK. We have Canadian scientists in Vancouver testing out FS2. Both of these products reduce or eliminate hypertrophic scarring as they claim. Scientists have also discovered the FOXN1 gene which is actively involved in producing scar tissue to close up wounds. Cotsarelis and Pilkus published an article on how they found a way to prevent scars. We also have the less talked about SkinTE nowadays which promised so much but left us disappointed. And of course, we have Sunogel which has yet to go into clinical trials. Skin 3D printers are also rolling out.
Modern medicine is certainly more advanced than it was 20 years ago and will only get better. However, we need to take into consideration that a new drug or new technique can take at minimum 10 years before being approved by government health agencies like the FDA around the world. Also, most of the time governments in place will block approval for many new therapies because of ethical, religious or even economic reasons, corruption comes to mind. Exporting these new therapies to other countries also takes years. Many developed countries have also very poor health care.
I can only hope that within 20 years, acne and its scars will be a thing of the past so no one else will have to go through the embarrassment of having cysts and ugly acne scars like most of us have to deal with. I would be a bit too old to care about my acne scars by then.
On 8/21/2018 at 3:32 PM, MyBeautifulScars said:Acne products and the acne fighting industry generate millions through false advertising. Why would they invest money to stop acne in the first place. Acne is not life threatening. Most of the population, doesn't have the severe form of it. Only a few of us will get severe acne. Also, scar treatments are now generating millions for many unethical dermatologists and plastic surgeons. Do you think they want some scientists to find a way of restoring scar tissue into the normal basket weave pattern skin with sweat glands and hair?
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but I don't think doctors and plastic surgeons are the problem. Yeah some of them may be unethical but the vast majority go into medicine because they want to help people. There are far easier ways to make money than going into debt for 8 years of school and living in near poverty for 10+ years. If they want to make money there are far easier ways to do so like engineering or business. I think the problem lies mostly with corporations and marketing. These laser companies market their devices as a magic fix-all cure for skin problems and only now are people beginning to realize that isn't true. Whenever I mention scars to people the first thing people suggest is laser because it's so heavily advertised as such. Same with acne products like neutrogena and proactive. The reality is for cystic acne that's deep below the skin topical won't do anything, but of course they won't say this. Most doctors try very hard to be ethical and honest. I went to a regular derm for acne that was covered by insurance (doesn't do any cosmetic procedures) and when I mentioned my scarring he told me he highly recommends Fraxel. He has no vested interest in me doing Fraxel as I would be with another doctor. So maybe it's a problem with medical education as well as most derms don't even learn about acne scars.
With that being said, would anyone be interested in drafting an email to Costarelis with me? I'm actually very curious as to what he plans on doing with his research. He did fill out a patent for his discovery but whether he plans to use or sell it remains unknown. Right now he is mainly focusing on his hair loss company which is understandable as more people deal with hairloss than scarring problems I guess. But maybe if he sees interest in his scarring research he'll begin to pursue that further. Feasibly his method may not even require FDA approval if he does something like hair transplants into an open wound and the removes it. Maybe he doesn't think that it would be possible to use his method for scars that cover a large portion of the body, but for acne scars for example they could work perfectly.
I also wanted to say that yes while the FDA is slow that doesn't mean it will take 10-15 years. The average approval takes about 8 years. Given that the skin is regenerated once a month (give or take) an approval for a scar drug could be much faster if they can prove it doesn't affect any other organs or cause any other problems. Also, as mentioned, for devices like hydrogels and microcoring approval is much faster. Another possibility, although unlikely, is a surgeon may find a new creative way to fix acne scars, through some sort of convoluted surgery/stitching. Only time will tell though. We can choose to be negative and say there won't ever be a cure for scarring or we can work together to find a solution. The reason why cancer and aids research gets so much money is because people actively do marches, fundraisers, and charities to raise money and help their diseases get visibility. If most doctors and researchers think that scarring is easily fixable with laser obviously they won't pursue that. In addition, although some of you will get angry at me for saying this, to the vast majority of people, acne scars aren't noticeable. Acne scars are only visible in unusual lighting conditions at a close distance. This is especially true if you only have one or two.
Another thing I think would be helpful is if we email the microcoring company as well, Cytrellis I think it was, and ask them if they plan to do any trials on scars. Scars of a certain size cause the skin to freak out and go "uh oh infection possibility" and quickly patch up the wound and make a scar. But, perhaps if microscopic pieces of the scar are excised the body will say, "oh this is a rather small scar, I can easily regenerate this" instead. Lots of research suggests that things like tension and wound size play a large role in whether something will scar or not.
28 minutes ago, kim6288 said:On 8/10/2018 at 8:18 AM, Sniffy said:Does anyone know what Dr Sun is doing on a day to day basis? Like how is he making money, does he have a side job at 7/11 or something?
hilarious
I'm not sure what his deal is. I asked why he hasn't gone for the cosmetics market first. He just seems non committal, I don't know what they're situation is though.
On 11/07/2018 at 9:16 AM, golfpanther said:As much as I'd personally like to get excited about FS2, those results don't inspire much confidence.Percentage improvements are such a finicky thing. 90%, 40%... at the end of the day you still have a scar without regenerated skin and appendages. Since this is a board about scarless healing, I think that's what we all want from any product that comes out.
Those images of the rabbit ear i think are worthy considering that is just from topical cream application everyday for 35 days to an existing scar.
everyone is anticipating the phase 2 trial results but its for topical application. Anyway if they are treating fresh surgical wounds it still give us an idea.
you would hope if it can breakdown existing scarring to a degree from just topical application of the cream then procedures like intradermal injection and needling would help drive for even better change.
im not holding my breath on a miracle cream just yet but its definitely interesting.
20 hours ago, FastMedia said:20 hours ago, kim6288 said:I'm not sure what his deal is. I asked why he hasn't gone for the cosmetics market first. He just seems non committal, I don't know what they're situation is though.
Sigh...What happened to the long rumored fund raiser? He can't even start a crowd fund??
23 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:Another thing I think would be helpful is if we email the microcoring company as well, Cytrellis I think it was, and ask them if they plan to do any trials on scars.
As far as I've read microcoring is for improving wrinkles. Who started the rumor that it's going to be major scarless healing?
23 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:Scars of a certain size cause the skin to freak out and go "uh oh infection possibility" and quickly patch up the wound and make a scar. But, perhaps if microscopic pieces of the scar are excised the body will say, "oh this is a rather small scar, I can easily regenerate this" instead. Lots of research suggests that things like tension and wound size play a large role in whether something will scar or not.
This I agree though...if they do plan to offer a procedure that way or it works like that
8 minutes ago, surgical scar said:Sigh...What happened to the long rumored fund raiser? He can't even start a crowd fund??As far as I've read microcoring is for improving wrinkles. Who started the rumor that it's going to be major scarless healing?
Well they stated that it is a full thickness excision but it is so small that it heals without a scar. If it truly does fully excise the scar completely I don't see why it couldn't regenerate.
20 hours ago, kim6288 said:On 8/10/2018 at 7:18 AM, Sniffy said:Does anyone know what Dr Sun is doing on a day to day basis? Like how is he making money, does he have a side job at 7/11 or something?
hilarious
I'm not laughing 
2 minutes ago, FromScarredtoFree said:12 minutes ago, surgical scar said:Sigh...What happened to the long rumored fund raiser? He can't even start a crowd fund??
As far as I've read microcoring is for improving wrinkles. Who started the rumor that it's going to be major scarless healing?Well they stated that it is a full thickness excision but it is so small that it heals without a scar. If it truly does fully excise the scar completely I don't see why it couldn't regenerate.
I hope they will try that way... it's just hope for now 
Their trials seem to be just for improving wrinkles
Sunogel's website got an update:
They say that they'll be done with preclinical testing by 3rd quarter of 2019 and that it's a device, which is good news. Also, they say that they are working on cosmetic applications that could be accelerated to market.
57 minutes ago, golfpanther said:Sunogel's website got an update:They say that they'll be done with preclinical testing by 3rd quarter of 2019 and that it's a device, which is good news. Also, they say that they are working on cosmetic applications that could be accelerated to market.
hopefully everyones good efforts here putting pressure on Sunogel to get things moving and not just with the product but also their website has added a little to this move forward in the right direction.
WizGel-DX1.... godspeed
I just wanted to add as a grad student it really bothers me when people say that things like Sunogel and Skinte are scams. I work in the biochemistry field and believe me no one goes into it to get rich. Almost everyone that studies something at a graduate level has an extreme amount of passion in their field and genuinely wants to help people. I've seen lots of my peers in business get rich with a bachelors. While studying for a PHD or Masters we are paid a near poverty level wage while we spend our youth studying seemingly obscure medical and research articles and doing boring but intellectually challenging lab work. After getting our credentials we have very little job prospects other than working in a lab or teaching. We are essentially dedicating our lives to a subject. For a scam artist to spend 8+ years in field studying a field and getting PHD is unfeasible to me. I think Dr. Sun is a guy who genuinely wants to help people with scarring and we may have a solution finally after 11 years of this forum.
3 hours ago, Sniffy said:hopefully everyones good efforts here putting pressure on Sunogel to get things moving and not just with the product but also their website has added a little to this move forward in the right direction.WizGel-DX1.... godspeed
Awesome, message him your support you guys! Let's let him know if we can help!
1 hour ago, FromScarredtoFree said:I just wanted to add as a grad student it really bothers me when people say that things like Sunogel and Skinte are scams. I work in the biochemistry field and believe me no one goes into it to get rich. Almost everyone that studies something at a graduate level has an extreme amount of passion in their field and genuinely wants to help people. I've seen lots of my peers in business get rich with a bachelors. While studying for a PHD or Masters we are paid a near poverty level wage while we spend our youth studying seemingly obscure medical and research articles and doing boring but intellectually challenging lab work. After getting our credentials we have very little job prospects other than working in a lab or teaching. We are essentially dedicating our lives to a subject. For a scam artist to spend 8+ years in field studying a field and getting PHD is unfeasible to me. I think Dr. Sun is a guy who genuinely wants to help people with scarring and we may have a solution finally after 11 years of this forum.
Yeah, capital rules all in modern society but it is pretty cynical to think that these guys are just trying to become rich. Especially when the SkinTe guys had cush jobs at Johns Hopkins.
https://www.sunogel.com/ Finally some date. I wonder if we can believe them this time they'll have something to show in 2019 and move onto clinical tests
5 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:I just wanted to add as a grad student it really bothers me when people say that things like Sunogel and Skinte are scams. I work in the biochemistry field and believe me no one goes into it to get rich. Almost everyone that studies something at a graduate level has an extreme amount of passion in their field and genuinely wants to help people. I've seen lots of my peers in business get rich with a bachelors. While studying for a PHD or Masters we are paid a near poverty level wage while we spend our youth studying seemingly obscure medical and research articles and doing boring but intellectually challenging lab work. After getting our credentials we have very little job prospects other than working in a lab or teaching. We are essentially dedicating our lives to a subject. For a scam artist to spend 8+ years in field studying a field and getting PHD is unfeasible to me. I think Dr. Sun is a guy who genuinely wants to help people with scarring and we may have a solution finally after 11 years of this forum.
I was in the same field and changed plans because of no pay and prospect. I like Dr. Sun. He reminds me of my nerdy professor that isn't aggressive. But the guys at top of PolarityTE company are fishy and bs too much...
10 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:I just wanted to add as a grad student it really bothers me when people say that things like Sunogel and Skinte are scams. I work in the biochemistry field and believe me no one goes into it to get rich. Almost everyone that studies something at a graduate level has an extreme amount of passion in their field and genuinely wants to help people. I've seen lots of my peers in business get rich with a bachelors. While studying for a PHD or Masters we are paid a near poverty level wage while we spend our youth studying seemingly obscure medical and research articles and doing boring but intellectually challenging lab work. After getting our credentials we have very little job prospects other than working in a lab or teaching. We are essentially dedicating our lives to a subject. For a scam artist to spend 8+ years in field studying a field and getting PHD is unfeasible to me. I think Dr. Sun is a guy who genuinely wants to help people with scarring and we may have a solution finally after 11 years of this forum.
I remember hearing an interview with someone who did research which could lead to a cure for cancer and he said he didn't have a problem with cancer as it was "just nature's way of clearing the stage for the next generation" and he didn't go out of his way to make sure his findings would get into the hands of people who could then bring it to the clinic. He went on like that saying how he thought it was a misconception to think that researchers etc. do what they do out of altruism and that they are just interested in the material and "being the best". He said the reason they're e.g. interested in proving a collegue wrong is that it's gratifying to be "better than someone else". He also spoke of how it was a rush to get "published" and how he still gets off while thinking of seeing his first publication.
I've never forgotten that. Nice to read your post therefore. Makes me a bit more positive about things.
2 hours ago, Lapis lazuli said:I remember hearing an interview with someone who did research which could lead to a cure for cancer and he said he didn't have a problem with cancer as it was "just nature's way of clearing the stage for the next generation" and he didn't go out of his way to make sure his findings would get into the hands of people who could then bring it to the clinic. He went on like that saying how he thought it was a misconception to think that researchers etc. do what they do out of altruism and that they are just interested in the material and "being the best". He said the reason they're e.g. interested in proving a collegue wrong is that it's gratifying to be "better than someone else". He also spoke of how it was a rush to get "published" and how he still gets off while thinking of seeing his first publication.
To be honest I find that very hard to believe. The speciality that I am studying is oncology and no one I know looks at it as "nature's way of clearing things". When you see a child with leukemia so young they cannot even convey that they are in pain sometimes you have to find a way to minimize it in your mind because its hard to understand and watch. Maybe that's what this person is doing. To me this person just sounds like an extreme narcissist though. LOL at getting of on getting published.
3 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:6 hours ago, Lapis lazuli said:I remember hearing an interview with someone who did research which could lead to a cure for cancer and he said he didn't have a problem with cancer as it was "just nature's way of clearing the stage for the next generation" and he didn't go out of his way to make sure his findings would get into the hands of people who could then bring it to the clinic. He went on like that saying how he thought it was a misconception to think that researchers etc. do what they do out of altruism and that they are just interested in the material and "being the best". He said the reason they're e.g. interested in proving a collegue wrong is that it's gratifying to be "better than someone else". He also spoke of how it was a rush to get "published" and how he still gets off while thinking of seeing his first publication.
To be honest I find that very hard to believe. The speciality that I am studying is oncology and no one I know looks at it as "nature's way of clearing things". When you see a child with leukemia so young they cannot even convey that they are in pain sometimes you have to find a way to minimize it in your mind because its hard to understand and watch. Maybe that's what this person is doing. To me this person just sounds like an extreme narcissist though. LOL at getting of on getting published.
I call bs or you were talking to a fool. People really have a poor understanding of cancer, and no actual doctor would spout such nonsense. There is genetic diversity among tumors. That's why they have to come up with so many different treatment options that are unique to each patient. No one cancer is the same. Similar but different.
Yeah something about Skinte always seemed off to me. Like if they truly did achieve scarless healing they should be uploading new pics every week not a few blurry or zoomed in ones every 6 months. I think it's because they exaggerated what their product can do. We don't really understand how stem cells differentiate and how to turn them into what we want. That's why sometimes we get lucky and get the results we want and other times it gives us something completely inappropriate like muscle, teeth, or tumor cells. So while in some examples they may have gotten fully regenerated skin, it's possible that was just luck. Not to mention that spraying something on your skin is a very poor delivery method and difficult to standardize. Hydrogels on the other hand are the delivery method of the future because they can penetrate individual cells on a molecular level.
Dr. Sun's pics are much more impressive. The picture of the gel applied to half of a wound and the other half was left alone looks much more promising than anything Skinte has shown us. The murine model isn't as good an indicator as the porcine model, but he apparently also tested it on pig skin and had success. Seems like he plans to go into human trials around a year from now and then from there it could take 3-7 years for approval. Sunogel I think will attract more investors than things like Skinte or Fraxel if it can be applied to preexisting scars because of it's ease of use. Not everyone can afford to take weeks of work or go to a doctor for these types of procedures. If it becomes a product you can pick up at your local CVS everyone will buy it at some point because everyone has a scar they would like to remove.
37 minutes ago, FromScarredtoFree said:Yeah something about Skinte always seemed off to me. Like if they truly did achieve scarless healing they should be uploading new pics every week not a few blurry or zoomed in ones every 6 months. I think it's because they exaggerated what their product can do. We don't really understand how stem cells differentiate and how to turn them into what we want. That's why sometimes we get lucky and get the results we want and other times it gives us something completely inappropriate like muscle, teeth, or tumor cells. So while in some examples they may have gotten fully regenerated skin, it's possible that was just luck. Not to mention that spraying something on your skin is a very poor delivery method and difficult to standardize. Hydrogels on the other hand are the delivery method of the future because they can penetrate individual cells on a molecular level.
Dr. Sun's pics are much more impressive. The picture of the gel applied to half of a wound and the other half was left alone looks much more promising than anything Skinte has shown us. The murine model isn't as good an indicator as the porcine model, but he apparently also tested it on pig skin and had success. Seems like he plans to go into human trials around a year from now and then from there it could take 3-7 years for approval. Sunogel I think will attract more investors than things like Skinte or Fraxel if it can be applied to preexisting scars because of it's ease of use. Not everyone can afford to take weeks of work or go to a doctor for these types of procedures. If it becomes a product you can pick up at your local CVS everyone will buy it at some point because everyone has a scar they would like to remove.
Sunogel's pics do indeed look promising. I'm hoping that since it's classified as a device it won't take quite as long to gain approval.
Not sure how quickly it would become an over the counter product. As it stands now, you would need a surgeon to excise the scar tissue so the hydrogel could be applied to a wound bed. but theoretically you wouldn't have much down time for a scarring like most of us on this board have (I realize for some, myself included, that might not be the case).
20 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:I just wanted to add as a grad student it really bothers me when people say that things like Sunogel and Skinte are scams. I work in the biochemistry field and believe me no one goes into it to get rich. Almost everyone that studies something at a graduate level has an extreme amount of passion in their field and genuinely wants to help people. I've seen lots of my peers in business get rich with a bachelors. While studying for a PHD or Masters we are paid a near poverty level wage while we spend our youth studying seemingly obscure medical and research articles and doing boring but intellectually challenging lab work. After getting our credentials we have very little job prospects other than working in a lab or teaching. We are essentially dedicating our lives to a subject. For a scam artist to spend 8+ years in field studying a field and getting PHD is unfeasible to me. I think Dr. Sun is a guy who genuinely wants to help people with scarring and we may have a solution finally after 11 years of this forum.
I truly believe SkinTe might be a scam. Sunogel however I have high hope for but I don't believe it can eliminate scarring at 100%. Anything at this point is improvement so if Sunogel can achieve at least more than 50% improvement, than it is a step in the right direction.
2 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:Yeah something about Skinte always seemed off to me. Like if they truly did achieve scarless healing they should be uploading new pics every week not a few blurry or zoomed in ones every 6 months. I think it's because they exaggerated what their product can do. We don't really understand how stem cells differentiate and how to turn them into what we want. That's why sometimes we get lucky and get the results we want and other times it gives us something completely inappropriate like muscle, teeth, or tumor cells. So while in some examples they may have gotten fully regenerated skin, it's possible that was just luck. Not to mention that spraying something on your skin is a very poor delivery method and difficult to standardize. Hydrogels on the other hand are the delivery method of the future because they can penetrate individual cells on a molecular level.
Dr. Sun's pics are much more impressive. The picture of the gel applied to half of a wound and the other half was left alone looks much more promising than anything Skinte has shown us. The murine model isn't as good an indicator as the porcine model, but he apparently also tested it on pig skin and had success. Seems like he plans to go into human trials around a year from now and then from there it could take 3-7 years for approval. Sunogel I think will attract more investors than things like Skinte or Fraxel if it can be applied to preexisting scars because of it's ease of use. Not everyone can afford to take weeks of work or go to a doctor for these types of procedures. If it becomes a product you can pick up at your local CVS everyone will buy it at some point because everyone has a scar they would like to remove.
Right.
3-7 years for a device? I hope he starts the clinical trials right after the pre-clinical results in 2019, but this is Dr. Sun we're talking about after all...he'd better not take his time more
3 minutes ago, MyBeautifulScars said:20 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:I just wanted to add as a grad student it really bothers me when people say that things like Sunogel and Skinte are scams. I work in the biochemistry field and believe me no one goes into it to get rich. Almost everyone that studies something at a graduate level has an extreme amount of passion in their field and genuinely wants to help people. I've seen lots of my peers in business get rich with a bachelors. While studying for a PHD or Masters we are paid a near poverty level wage while we spend our youth studying seemingly obscure medical and research articles and doing boring but intellectually challenging lab work. After getting our credentials we have very little job prospects other than working in a lab or teaching. We are essentially dedicating our lives to a subject. For a scam artist to spend 8+ years in field studying a field and getting PHD is unfeasible to me. I think Dr. Sun is a guy who genuinely wants to help people with scarring and we may have a solution finally after 11 years of this forum.
I truly believe SkinTe might be a scam. Sunogel however I have high hope for but I don't believe it can eliminate scarring at 100%. Anything at this point is improvement so if Sunogel can achieve at least more than 50% improvement, than it is a step in the right direction.
Yes.
I'm not so worried about vanishing pre-existing scars yet, we can always excise pre-existing scars or something to that degree and apply it to fresh wound beds if we have a product that is truly scarless or truly visibly an improvement. At this point I don't think anyone who can afford it would blink twice about going for real 50% improvement.
2 minutes ago, surgical scar said:Right.
3-7 years for a device?
TBH I prefer him working on developing a good product rather than being like skinte and rushing out a half assed solution into the market. Usually you would start clinical trials right after as the point of preclinical trials is to gain approval to test the product in humans. Sunogel has an incentive to come to market quickly as every year they don't come to market the company loses money. A device can be approved in 3 months but the average is 3-7 years. If I had to guess I would say Sunogel will be around 3 years. Also there are points in the clinical trial were you can volunteer. For example phase 4 the product is technically approved but they are still watching it. At phase 4 you can obtain the product without enrolling in a trial.
1 hour ago, MyBeautifulScars said:22 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:
I truly believe SkinTe might be a scam. Sunogel however I have high hope for but I don't believe it can eliminate scarring at 100%. Anything at this point is improvement so if Sunogel can achieve at least more than 50% improvement, than it is a step in the right direction.
Why 50%? Sunogel has shown "perfect skin" (their words, not mine) can be regenerated using their hydrogel on both mice and pigs. Now, that obviously isn't humans, but don't lower the burden on them. They're going for complete regeneration and we should expect that of Dr. Sun and his team.
1 hour ago, FromScarredtoFree said:1 hour ago, surgical scar said:TBH I prefer him working on developing a good product rather than being like skinte and rushing out a half assed solution into the market. Usually you would start clinical trials right after as the point of preclinical trials is to gain approval to test the product in humans. Sunogel has an incentive to come to market quickly as every year they don't come to market the company loses money. A device can be approved in 3 months but the average is 3-7 years. If I had to guess I would say Sunogel will be around 3 years. Also there are points in the clinical trial were you can volunteer. For example phase 4 the product is technically approved but they are still watching it. At phase 4 you can obtain the product without enrolling in a trial.
SkinTE, thus far, has obviously not presented us with anything to get really excited about. However, I understand why they approached it the way they did. Dr. Sun's problem is acquiring funding. It's certainly easier to get investment money if you're saying to the money holders, "We are going straight to market without lengthy and costly trials." Some may say that's a sign PolarityTE was trying to scam investors (plenty have) but regardless of that, the idea behind the 361 pathway for them made sense from a business perspective.
No idea how long it might take Sunogel, but you probably know more than I do about the FDA process for devices. I do wonder though if it could qualify to be expedited in light of recent FDA changes and the fact it has the potential to be such a transformative medical advancement (I know there are exceptions made for products like that). My bigger worry is that Dr. Sun still needs money to do all this and meet his benchmarks and timelines.
7 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:Yeah something about Skinte always seemed off to me. Like if they truly did achieve scarless healing they should be uploading new pics every week not a few blurry or zoomed in ones every 6 months. I think it's because they exaggerated what their product can do. We don't really understand how stem cells differentiate and how to turn them into what we want. That's why sometimes we get lucky and get the results we want and other times it gives us something completely inappropriate like muscle, teeth, or tumor cells. So while in some examples they may have gotten fully regenerated skin, it's possible that was just luck. Not to mention that spraying something on your skin is a very poor delivery method and difficult to standardize. Hydrogels on the other hand are the delivery method of the future because they can penetrate individual cells on a molecular level.
Dr. Sun's pics are much more impressive. The picture of the gel applied to half of a wound and the other half was left alone looks much more promising than anything Skinte has shown us. The murine model isn't as good an indicator as the porcine model, but he apparently also tested it on pig skin and had success. Seems like he plans to go into human trials around a year from now and then from there it could take 3-7 years for approval. Sunogel I think will attract more investors than things like Skinte or Fraxel if it can be applied to preexisting scars because of it's ease of use. Not everyone can afford to take weeks of work or go to a doctor for these types of procedures. If it becomes a product you can pick up at your local CVS everyone will buy it at some point because everyone has a scar they would like to remove.
Kind of. The types of stem cells most skin regeneration companies talk about are not the ones most commonly covered in the media. Very different.
On 8/28/2018 at 7:23 PM, FromScarredtoFree said:I just wanted to add as a grad student it really bothers me when people say that things like Sunogel and Skinte are scams. I work in the biochemistry field and believe me no one goes into it to get rich. Almost everyone that studies something at a graduate level has an extreme amount of passion in their field and genuinely wants to help people. I've seen lots of my peers in business get rich with a bachelors. While studying for a PHD or Masters we are paid a near poverty level wage while we spend our youth studying seemingly obscure medical and research articles and doing boring but intellectually challenging lab work. After getting our credentials we have very little job prospects other than working in a lab or teaching. We are essentially dedicating our lives to a subject. For a scam artist to spend 8+ years in field studying a field and getting PHD is unfeasible to me. I think Dr. Sun is a guy who genuinely wants to help people with scarring and we may have a solution finally after 11 years of this forum.
Thanks for this post. I think it's important for people to remember that these researchers are human beings with emotions, ambitions, fears and issues just like the rest of us. I can't imagine anyone going into the field you study or trying to tackle complex problems like Dr. Sun get into it just to get rich.
A note about microcoring, Cytrellis isn't the only company that has a product like that. Check out the ART gun by Medline:
https://www.medline.com/pages/autologous-regeneration-of-tissue/
They specifically state it's for wound care.