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3 hours ago, scarred2468 said:The idea for many of these methods is that you excise the scar and it grows back as normal skin, that's the only way it would work for something like a hydrogel I think. What did you think of the bioprinting method I linked about?
Well the thing there is that their skin is only made up of fibroblasts and keratinocytes. Real skin is much more complex. And the face is contoured which makes grafting difficult you have to jigsaw the skin to the injury site. And because the skin heals via fibrosis if you remove the skin your risk scarring hydrogel or not. That is why I think the future will involve bioprinting completely new functional skin onto an excised area for scar revision. Hydrogels will be used as a scaffold and the tech will combine stem cells, anti inflammatory agents and various skin cells to promote literally new skin. Because gel is used instead of a graft you get rid of the scarring issue which is commonly seen with grafts at the grafts borders. You could probably do that in stages for acne scars so the contouring won't be an issue. The military is working on a mask for facial burns though which is pretty cool. Look up biomask if you get bored.
3 hours ago, mjg713 said:3 hours ago, scarred2468 said:The idea for many of these methods is that you excise the scar and it grows back as normal skin, that's the only way it would work for something like a hydrogel I think. What did you think of the bioprinting method I linked about?
Correct, I actually think it makes more sense to grow back the normal skin as opposed to bioprinting it. Although, the last article I read about them bioprinting in Spain said that they have transplanted it in humans already.
The thing is only the epidermis can regenerate, acne scars are pitted because the dermis has been damaged and the underlying tissue has been too. That is why lasers, fat grafts and stem cells can help but not totally get rid of acne scars, some are just too deep. And with a bioprinter they would have to use your cells anyway so it would be your skin, one way to think about it is like a way better version of recell. Recell already works fairly well for partial thickness wounds which is what acne scarring kind of is.
3 hours ago, mjg713 said:3 hours ago, scarred2468 said:The idea for many of these methods is that you excise the scar and it grows back as normal skin, that's the only way it would work for something like a hydrogel I think. What did you think of the bioprinting method I linked about?
Correct, I actually think it makes more sense to grow back the normal skin as opposed to bioprinting it. Although, the last article I read about them bioprinting in Spain said that they have transplanted it in humans already.
Also spain hasn't implanted it humans yet. It was more proof of concept. The first will be wake forest on soldiers or lyons university in france. I talked to the french head and he said 2019 will be the earliest they use it on humans. The good news is that wake forest is working with organovo which is owned by loreal, they are doing this because organovo has the ability to push a product to market once they fine tune the printer, they must finalize the correct bio inks and make sure the software is perfect etc...
On 2/24/2017 at 1:01 PM, Rez77 said:I know like literally WTF!!!??? Honestly guys the future is approaching WAY slower than we think. 2001 expected us to have interplanetary travel and Bladerunner assumed we'd have humanoid androids and flying cars. We don't have a tenth a hundredth of that shit. I talked to a top scientist and he said we may and he was saying this is highly imporbably but we MAY have tissue regnerative capcities that could help scars by the early 2030s. None of this dextran hydrogel shit does anything. Hydrogel may be useful as a scaffold for some tisue regeneration once we figure out how to do it but that's at least a decade away. I would just try lasers followed by fat for now.oh and dermabrasion
Actually the future is closer then you think. Interplanetary travel, humanoid androids and advanced flying crafts are all here. The thing is these kind of stuff are kept under the rug by the military/government and assessed by only the elites and need to know basis. It may be the same issue with scarless healing. I once read that military tech is AT LEAST 10-20 years ahead (If not maybe decades or centuries ahead even) of public technology that we know. It is not surprising since TRILLIONS of dollars are spent on research and black budget programs.
^If it makes money, people will be selling it or stealing it. The only way that a scar treatment could be limited is if it's only indicated/allowed for certain uses.
34erer34: Yes the skin naturally heals via fibrosis, the goal of actual scarless "healing" is to prevent this process and turn it into regeneration. I'm pretty sure all of the hydrogel tests were done with full thickness 3rd degree burn wounds, so they are taking the most extensive wounds (in terms of depth) into account here. The do work to an extent, in human skin however that remains to be seen.
5 hours ago, scarred2468 said:^If it makes money, people will be selling it or stealing it. The only way that a scar treatment could be limited is if it's only indicated/allowed for certain uses.
34erer34: Yes the skin naturally heals via fibrosis, the goal of actual scarless "healing" is to prevent this process and turn it into regeneration. I'm pretty sure all of the hydrogel tests were done with full thickness 3rd degree burn wounds, so they are taking the most extensive wounds (in terms of depth) into account here. The do work to an extent, in human skin however that remains to be seen.
I saw a poster up top saying that the hydogel wouldn't work for acne scars because they are pitted. Do you think that there is a better chance it will work for regular surgical/trauma scars? I think it is really annoying that they can;t update us more frequently, there last update was in June.
If it can actually regenerate a small circle of skin in a human, then there is no reason to think it won't work for acne scars. Excision will be required. Keep in mind, unless you read the term "acne" or pitted/rolling scar specifically, a scar refers to the other kind you mentioned, surgical scars, keloids, fibrosis, etc. Which is fine, because getting rid of an acne scar with a regenerative method will require a surgical procedure. The pitting is not an obstacle, the only obstacle is if the product truly works, and to what extent.
3 hours ago, scarred2468 said:If it can actually regenerate a small circle of skin in a human, then there is no reason to think it won't work for acne scars. Excision will be required. Keep in mind, unless you read the term "acne" or pitted/rolling scar specifically, a scar refers to the other kind you mentioned, surgical scars, keloids, fibrosis, etc. Which is fine, because getting rid of an acne scar with a regenerative method will require a surgical procedure. The pitting is not an obstacle, the only obstacle is if the product truly works, and to what extent.
Yes, I get that. I'm trying to remain optimistic because this is probably the closest product we have to coming to market soon. It has been successful in pigs, which are very similar to humans. I think this is a good reason to be optimistic. UCONN working with the military is hoping to regenerate a knee by 2025 and a full human limb by 2030. It's only logical that scar free healing has to be somewhat close. It really wouldn't make sense if it comes at a time when we are regenerating human limbs. The other study regarding hair follicle growth making skins heal scar free is very promising also. I'm just assuming that would be a much longer wait than the hydrogel considering all the trials. Therefore, I a really hoping the hydrogel works.
Just letting everyone know that I emailed BirchBio, the FS2 anti scarring company. I didn't really get a clear answer on there trial results but they did ask me if I wanted to be involved in the clinical trial, I declined because that is not what I'm looking for. However, anyone in Canada or willing to travel to Canada and has the time I guess it is a good opportunity. It is suppose to also completely prevent scars after excision.
Yea I email BirchBio about a month ago, And asked me if I was interested on being part of the trials. But I have to be qualified for the trials first, which I'm not getting my hopes up. If I do qualify for it, I would report to you guys the process and the results. Susan told me It would help Acne Scars, but didn't specifically say how it would be done or how effective would it be. Just fingers cross guys, To be honest if i had 50%-80% improvement from it, I would be happy enough to go on with my life to pursue my goals and passion. Obviously along the road, there will be advancement and can completely regenerate scar tissue or any kind of skin injury. Until then, I'll try out whatever new treatment they throw at us(Obviously do some research first).
On 2/28/2017 at 4:22 PM, 34erer34 said:Hi, I was reading through this thread and I thought I would share a few things.
A. None of these innovations will help with existing scars. They are all preventive measures for quicker wound healing in things like burns, ulcers, big cuts etc...
B. I'm sure a better solution for acne scars will come out someday, the sad truth is most of these things require money and time. Clinical trials especially in the US take forever.
C. I really only see bioprinting as a solution to achieve scarless healing. This is mostly due to how skin heals. Fibrosis is the skins default tool to repair itself when the dermis has been compromised. This means you would have to control inflammation and replenish lost skin cells while instructing the skin to regenerate instead of repair. At least 3 labs off the top of my head are working on creating bio ink for burn wounds. These will all start by using only two cell types keratinocytes and fibroblasts, this means the skin would not be fully functional and there will be scars although the skin would heal much faster. The labs hope to use more cell types in the future that will allow for matching pigmentation, hair follicles, oil glands etc... They are also testing the use of various stem cells to promote healing and tools to vascularize the ink so it takes to the skin better. Some time after the first human trials they will test this on remodeling scars. But it is still aways away. They are also looking at this as a tool for vitiligo. So it's fun to look towards the future but let's face it no time soon will their be a cure for scarring although progress is being made.
SMARTEST PERSON TO EVER POST ON THIS THREAD. PERIOD. AND THIS IS WHY IT WON'T HAPPEN FOR DECADES. See you guys in 2060!!!!
Hi,Rudy,Rez77,and other guys:
Hard to say "glad" to see you're still here,but,you know what i'm saying.
After 5-year depression I decided to take some treatment with my scars. Maybe It's my father's death made me have to do this instead of waitting.
He worried about me till the last moment of his life. he said,"You have to face it ,you're no longer a kid now".
I missed him and I know clearly tears dosent make any sense,I must live on my own,sound and alone,Cuz anyone would die someday.As a Chinese saying goes,"Nomatter how high the mountain isthere is a way,it says "
Apologize for my bad English.
So,any suggestions about the treatment?Looking forward to your reply/advice.
2 hours ago, ScarfacePanda said:Hi,Rudy,Rez77,and other guys:
Hard to say "glad" to see you're still here,but,you know what i'm saying.
After 5-year depression I decided to take some treatment with my scars. Maybe It's my father's death made me have to do this instead of waitting.
He worried about me till the last moment of his life. he said,"You have to face it ,you're no longer a kid now".
I missed him and I know clearly tears dosent make any sense,I must live on my own,sound and alone,Cuz anyone would die someday.As a Chinese saying goes,"Nomatter how high the mountain isthere is a way,it says "
Apologize for my bad English.So,any suggestions about the treatment?Looking forward to your reply/advice.
Hey Panda, sorry to hear about your father. Clearly he loved you very dearly. It's okay, you must go on. Here's my advice as far as a protocol. You're going to have to be VERY aggressive. Start with subcision of scars followed by multiple stages of DERMABRASION (not microdermabrasion) the real thing with the rotating sandpaper. This:
.
Okay you'll need probably five sessions of these over 1 year. Follow this with fat injection throughout the face and fillers to the depressed areas. I would treat with sculptura. You may even want to do a very strong laser afterwards to get more improvement. It's going to cost a lot 10 grand to 20 grand but I can guarantee you'll get about 50-60 percent benefit at least if not more, and that will make a HUGE HUGE difference. Show us your scars and your daily improvement. Don't wait around for this hydrogel stuff it will NEVER COME IN OUR LIFETIMES. You'll just keep phoning and emailing and watching the sites of various companies and clickbait media. Do what you can do NOW. And you will be happy.
Thanks for your reply and kindness. It takes time for me to read English.
I'm living in China, 26-year-old. Most treatment you mentioned are quite diffrent from the hospital in our country,It seems they just want MONEY and we Chinese all have idea about that. CO2 laser plasmaand so on.... It's not a normative industry, maybe Kroea is better
I have MYRIADicepicksin my face, I learned this word from the movie Geniusmaybe not that bad.
I'll describe my situation in detail later to make sure you know what i'm saying.
BTW ,Rez77, your link have lost ,maybe because of the GFW.
I appreciate your help, it makes me feel better. Thanks again.
A hydrogel is just a type of treatment, there are dozens of hydrogels that are completely different in chemical structure. Clearly we have very little data but looking at older models of hydrogels means nothing when looking at the new ones. Thank you mjg for contacting the company
On 3/5/2017 at 1:58 PM, mjg713 said:Just letting everyone know that I emailed BirchBio, the FS2 anti scarring company. I didn't really get a clear answer on there trial results but they did ask me if I wanted to be involved in the clinical trial, I declined because that is not what I'm looking for. However, anyone in Canada or willing to travel to Canada and has the time I guess it is a good opportunity. It is suppose to also completely prevent scars after excision.
They have an office in NewYork. I will look into this.
3 hours ago, scarred2468 said:A hydrogel is just a type of treatment, there are dozens of hydrogels that are completely different in chemical structure. Clearly we have very little data but looking at older models of hydrogels means nothing when looking at the new ones. Thank you mjg for contacting the company
You're welcome and you are 100% right. You cannot compare this hydrogel to another hydrogel. That is like comparing a drug to another drug, they might look the same but have totally different uses.
On 05/03/2017 at 6:58 PM, mjg713 said:Just letting everyone know that I emailed BirchBio, the FS2 anti scarring company. I didn't really get a clear answer on there trial results but they did ask me if I wanted to be involved in the clinical trial, I declined because that is not what I'm looking for. However, anyone in Canada or willing to travel to Canada and has the time I guess it is a good opportunity. It is suppose to also completely prevent scars after excision.
Hi MJG,
As you have a sort of rapport going with BirchBiomed, can you ask them if this is a Phase II Trial that they are running?
Their website is full of references to completion of a Phase I trial in 2016; but says nothing about what's happening next.
This might be a way of finding out?
1 hour ago, HCAS said:Hi MJG,As you have a sort of rapport going with BirchBiomed, can you ask them if this is a Phase II Trial that they are running?
Their website is full of references to completion of a Phase I trial in 2016; but says nothing about what's happening next.
This might be a way of finding out?
It has to be Phase 2 since they already released information that they completed phase 1. However, I originally emailed them regarding the results of Phase 1 which I have not yet received.
This is the Press Release BirchBio sent me about completion of the first clinical trial: http://birchbiomed.ca/completion-of-clinical-trial/ . So it definitely completed Phase 1 and is in Phase 2 right now. However, the Press Release does not clearly state whether it did indeed completely regenerate skin in the clinical trial.
To update on this, Susan has emailed me today. She stated that the FS2 prevented any scarring from forming in the first place AND it promoted the breakdown of existing scars. I think this is very exciting news!
4 hours ago, 34erer34 said:Wake Forest has tested the printer w/ 4 cell types now. This is huge as no other bioprinter has tested this many cells on an animal model.
What exactly does this mean, 4 cell types?
1 hour ago, mjg713 said:This is the Press Release BirchBio sent me about completion of the first clinical trial: http://birchbiomed.ca/completion-of-clinical-trial/ . So it definitely completed Phase 1 and is in Phase 2 right now. However, the Press Release does not clearly state whether it did indeed completely regenerate skin in the clinical trial.
To update on this, Susan has emailed me today. She stated that the FS2 prevented any scarring from forming in the first place AND it promoted the breakdown of existing scars. I think this is very exciting news!
What exactly does this mean, 4 cell types?
Human skin is made up of multiple cell types, more than I can list. Skin substitutes and bioprinted skin so far has only been made up of a very basic dermal and epidermal layer with 2 cell types keratinocytes and fibroblasts. Wake Forest has successfully implanted skin that has melanocytes, hair follicle cells and the aforementioned skin cells in rats and the cells survived. This moves science one step closer to printing skin that would be functional, aesthetic and would essentally be new skin.
Also, I wanted to mention that there are people looking at if it would be possible to reprogram scar cells into normal skin (one is fiona wood the recell woman, I know many of you think recell is a scam but it originated for burn wounds not cosmetic scarring, that is mostly plastic surgeons looking to see if it can help and it does help just maybe not enough to get rid of scars). In fact scarring is an issue not only for skin but the entire body. Scars impact internal organs too so many researchers have been trying to fix the problem for years.
3 hours ago, mjg713 said:This is the Press Release BirchBio sent me about completion of the first clinical trial: http://birchbiomed.ca/completion-of-clinical-trial/ . So it definitely completed Phase 1 and is in Phase 2 right now. However, the Press Release does not clearly state whether it did indeed completely regenerate skin in the clinical trial.
To update on this, Susan has emailed me today. She stated that the FS2 prevented any scarring from forming in the first place AND it promoted the breakdown of existing scars. I think this is very exciting news!
Thanks for the update MJ.
Sounds exciting indeed.
I am still surprised BirchBiomed have not made a big deal about starting Phase 2 trials. I would have expected a press release announcing start of recruitment and another stating start of the trial.
They were hoping to get it licensed as a medical device...which would have reduced the clinical trial requirements. I guess that hasn't happened.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1113415545/compound-scar-tissue-prevention-082216/
Another promising treatment
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH "Another team looking into X which "COULD" "POTENTIALLY" "IN THE FUTURE" help with X (which may not even be acne scars) but we'll pretend it's the holy grail. There ain't no Holy Grail boyos. You better book yourselves some straight up boogie time at the laser clinic where you get some nice shuffle shuffle on your cheeks and of course you'll need to hatch out wads of your green green that they'll gobble gobble. You think you got what that takes boyo to make ass like babyface bum. 2060. We be old men with wrinkless then boyo. Slippety slap.