Alright guys, I truly hate to be the bearer of bad news.. But it seems as though I have to be.

I lost my patience again and e-mailed one of the researchers from Gerecht's lab to see if they got funding yet.

He responded and said they haven't had any luck with it and furthermore, haven't had any positive news at all so far regarding the hydrogel.

He even went on to say that there was no longer funding for his position so he won't be doing research for Hopkins anymore but (i quote) "hopefully other people may continue this work".

This email discouraged me quite a bit. It's been nearly a year since they made this incredible discovery and they still haven't even got funding?!? I just don't understand. This could potentially be a huge breakthrough and could literally change/save so many lives - and it's just sitting there. And at this rate, it will be for years to come.

I feel like we should take some sort of action to bring this stuff to people's attention and get some hype and support behind it. I'm sick of feeling helpless and hopeless. We should start a petition or something to get this funded. Seriously.

I couldn't agree more, chuckstonchew. I commented a little bit ago about sites this are used to help fund research.

www.petridish.org

The hiccup would be finding someone currently researching the dextran hydrogel since according to the researcher Johns Hopkins is no longer doing it. It is odd and distressing that something that elicited such remarkable results in mice (and was incredibly simple too when compared to other researched methods) would have a difficult time getting funding. I suppose that a lot of investors are still hesitant because of things like Juvista and because it is so simple they may have a hard time believing it's really the answer.

I guess another avenue would be to form some kind of petition that would indicate the public wants the research continued and then send that to Gerecht's lab. Maybe we should just ask them directly how we could help them get funding.

Another thought occurred to me. It's possible that Johns Hopkins and Gerecht's lab decided that it wasn't worth pursuing because of the various other companies that are researching and creating hydrogels (like the one Vladislav mentioned for use on patients with spinal cord injuries). It could also be the reason investors aren't giving them the funding because they might have already be invested money in those other companies and wouldn't want, in essence, to bet against themselves on the market.

It would be outrageous if the dextran hydrogel was not funded. Therefore I'm thinking/hoping you have misinterpreted something chuckstonchew. The guy you emailed said he hasn't had any news and to me this is not the same as no funding. So to me I'm perceiving they are still waiting. But still to me it has been 7.5month wait for funding and imo I reckon something like this should be the minimum.

It's stupid that articles with headlines like "Hydrogel made which can regenerate skin!!! " are released when everyone must have known that this was one of the possibilities. This i.e. an eventual stopping of the developement of it. They say "It's classified as a device...so it may be available in just a few years! " getting a lot of people who are genuinely suffering (especially people with burns) hopeful and excited. They should stop doing that and just keep things to themselves until they are sure that it will come to fruition.

This doesn't come as a surprise to me. I've said from the beginning that it would end up this way with us basically hearing no more news about the hydrogel. The fact that we have heard that it is over is only because a few people inquired themselves.

It's stupid that articles with headlines like "Hydrogel made which can regenerate skin!!! " are released when everyone must have known that this was one of the possibilities. This i.e. an eventual stopping of the developement of it. They say "It's classified as a device...so it may be available in just a few years! " getting a lot of people who are genuinely suffering (especially people with burns) hopeful and excited. They should stop doing that and just keep things to themselves until they are sure that it will come to fruition.

 

This doesn't come as a surprise to me. I've said from the beginning that it would end up this way with us basically hearing no more news about the hydrogel. The fact that we have heard that it is over is only because a few people inquired themselves.

 

The articles you are talking about are absolute fact and truth based and these facts are provided on the paper the articles cited. There is no misinformation. If you look at the paper, which shows complete regeneration happening after the hydrogel was rapidly degraded, and shows how the widely used and tested control doesn't get complete regeneration when the control scaffold does not degrade fast... then using this source and writing about what was observed in the source, then there is nothing spun in headlines like you are conveying. It is all fact based, I could understand you having a go at the articles if what they said did not match what was observed in the paper, but the facts are they have written about what was written in the paper.

With regard to the 3years, there is a precident for 2.5 years to 3 years with regards to a device. This is also fact based in the articles. There is precedent.

I'm not saying anything is "spun". It is fact based, it's just that at the same time it isn't even sure if anything is ever going to come to fruition. So why say anything and get people excited only to let them down again and again?

Btw, here's how Darth Vader reacted to the news:

He now has to keep wearing that helmet else he's insecure when he goes out. Sorry, guys. Just trying to lighten the mood a bit.

I'll e-mail Gerecht herself and get some more confirmation/information.

I

I'm not saying anything is "spun". It is fact based, it's just that at the same time it isn't even sure if anything is ever going to come to fruition. So why say anything and get people excited only to let them down again and again?

 

He now has to keep wearing that helmet else he's insecure when he goes out. Sorry, guys. Just trying to lighten the mood a bit.

 

I'll e-mail Gerecht herself and get some more confirmation/information.

 

It is not news, what chuckstonchew has said (though he hasn't commented since as of yet) what he said was there has been nothing noted in the terms of funding for it which is delaying the release of the hydrogel, and some guy might be moving on. And this brought his rightful frustration, all he want is the hydrogel. This healed a 3rd degree burn in 2weeks ffs.

I

I'm not saying anything is "spun". It is fact based, it's just that at the same time it isn't even sure if anything is ever going to come to fruition. So why say anything and get people excited only to let them down again and again?

 

He now has to keep wearing that helmet else he's insecure when he goes out. Sorry, guys. Just trying to lighten the mood a bit.

 

I'll e-mail Gerecht herself and get some more confirmation/information.

 

 

It is not news, what chuckstonchew has said (though he hasn't commented since as of yet) what he said was there has been nothing noted in the terms of funding for it which is delaying the release of the hydrogel, and some guy might be moving on. And this brought his rightful frustration, all he want is the hydrogel. This healed a 3rd degree burn in 2weeks ffs.

I may have misread his post then. We'll see what Gerecht says when I e-mail her.

 

I

I'm not saying anything is "spun". It is fact based, it's just that at the same time it isn't even sure if anything is ever going to come to fruition. So why say anything and get people excited only to let them down again and again?

 

He now has to keep wearing that helmet else he's insecure when he goes out. Sorry, guys. Just trying to lighten the mood a bit.

 

I'll e-mail Gerecht herself and get some more confirmation/information.

 

 

It is not news, what chuckstonchew has said (though he hasn't commented since as of yet) what he said was there has been nothing noted in the terms of funding for it which is delaying the release of the hydrogel, and some guy might be moving on. And this brought his rightful frustration

 

I may have misread his post then. We'll see what Gerecht says when I e-mail her.

 

Ask her to tell you whether she is still waiting for NIH funding or not? And ask her whether she plans to set up her own company (as dextran hydrogel could very easily get funding by the venture capital funds) or whether she plans to sell the patent for the dextran hydrogel that she owns to someone else?

Ask her to tell you whether she is still waiting for NIH funding or not? And ask her whether she plans to set up her own company (as dextran hydrogel could easily get founding by the venture capital funds) or whether she plans to sell the patent that she owns to someone else?

 

Ok, sure.

I've sent the e-mail just now. Let's hope she replies!

Hey guys.

While seabs is correct, I didn't say that the hydrogel is getting NO funding (only that it hasn't as of yet), I feel like this is still enough to warrant some sort of movement on our part. If this technology can truly do what it has done for mice for humans, the lives it will change will be innumerable. And I think that this is very much evident, which is why the fact that (as of now - nearly a year after the discovery) they still can't seem to get funding to help it move forward literally makes me sick.

I wasn't trying to say "the hydrogel is never getting funding!!!" But the researchers pessimism regarding the whole thing was clear even via e-mail. And this is NOT the way it should be for something as remarkable and game-changning as this. People who have the power should be coming together to bring this to people in need as soon as possible. Anything else is absurd.

He told me several months ago that they were waiting on a response from the DoD or NIH. Yesterday he said they haven't gotten word back from them and are thinking about pursuing some SBIR funding opportunity. It shouldn't be this difficult. And the fact that he is no longer working on the project to me just further confirms how little the project is valued. He is Dr. Sun and was the top dog other than Gerecht. I think it was his name that was used first in the publication even, so clearly he was a big part of the project. And they don't even value him enough to continue funding his work. WHAT?!

I'm sorry, this may be how all new medications and such work in their search for FDA approval, but to me, this is absolute absurdity. Something that shows this much promise and it's just sitting there stagnant, and we're all just waiting here suffering with years still ahead of us.

I guess all we can do now is wait and see what Dr Gerecht replies - thanks for sending an email lapis lazuli

thanks too to chuckstonchew for the update - am just wondering what the line 'haven't had any positive news at all so far regarding the hydrogel' means - does that relate just to Government funding? Or does he mean the team have had no one approach them to suggest further studies?

I have to say - I find the whole thing a bit bizarre - I mean here is medical invention that could possibly let all 3rd degree burns - not to mention deep wounds, accidental cuts and all sugery incisions heal scar-free - and that could make at least 100s of millions - if not billions of dollars for the creator - and yet it's not being rushed into experiments - but is merely sitting around?

huh?

What am I missing? Is it doubtful to a real scientist in a way that I can't see that the gel would perform the same way in humans? Are these scientists merely happy being in the lab and not that bothered about actual applications? Is the whole discovery to bedside treatment model of western medicine these days so sluggish and bearucratic that yes, something with as much potential can have it's development drawn out over decades - or even just be set aside?

I honestly dont know - I'm just wondering out loud - amongst other people who will know why I find this frustrating

The suggestion about petridish.org is interesting because I've seen the site kickstarter - and thought it might only be a matter of time before - via the internet - people with certain diseases might start directly funding research - although we don't seem to be in that era yet - but if there was a well known site - and anyone across the world who was unhappy with scars or who wanted better ways to deal with fire burns could donate to this - I bet trials could get funded within a week

Maybe others are working on this as we speak [i hope] - or hopefully, like I said last time - someone in India or China will just pick this up and run with it - and investigate at a bullet-like speed

anyway, I look forward to hearing if Dr Gerecht replies or not!

Let's see what's said - or not!

Maybe if we can increase public awareness and support, we can speed this thing up?

We can spread it like wildfire and even get big names involved so it can't be ignored.

This isn't some basic medication guys, we're talking LIFE CHANGING. And anyone can see that.

Not to mention, the US government has even made statements on stepping up and supporting regenerative medicine and assuring it gets the funding and persistence it needs to bring it the people as soon as possible. - Could've fooled me!

@Mars, no one from India or China or anywhere can pick up on it and do anything because Geracht and company have it patented.

Maybe they should bring their research over to India/China/etc and escape the clear faults of the American system. I know I would travel absolutely anywhere if it worked!

thanks chuckstonchew - it sure is wierd - and you'd think even just the potential profit to be made would make private firms approach them and ask could they have a stake for doing research - the lab team themselves have said that the hydrogel is not expensive to make...

I hope Dr Gereht replies with more positive news - and yeah, it does suck so much that this is the current way drugs and devices are researched in our society - plus when you think of everything that money is wasted on... well, at least the original research, the original finding is here!

Another thought occurred to me. It's possible that Johns Hopkins and Gerecht's lab decided that it wasn't worth pursuing because of the various other companies that are researching and creating hydrogels (like the one Vladislav mentioned for use on patients with spinal cord injuries). It could also be the reason investors aren't giving them the funding because they might have already be invested money in those other companies and wouldn't want, in essence, to bet against themselves on the market.

 

Well that is called COMPETITION and FREE MARKET! And of course that in 5 years there will be a lot of commercialized hydrogels on the market but the key question is WHICH ONE WILL BE THE MOST EFFECTIVE in the treatmnet of spinal cord injuries and skin wounds/scars and in other areas of regenerative medicine?

I don't have much time to reply right now but there is this site I came across which seems similar to what you guys are describing.

http://www.foregen.org/category/about-us/

It's people trying to jumpstart a clinical trial so that they can reverse their circumcisions by having their foreskins regenerated.

He told me several months ago that they were waiting on a response from the DoD or NIH. Yesterday he said they haven't gotten word back from them and are thinking about pursuing some SBIR funding opportunity. It shouldn't be this difficult.

 

Hey this is very important news! You should say that before, SBIR stands for 'Small Business Innovation Research', fuck NIH and their bureaucracy!!! Here you can find more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBIR

This is interesting too:

http://www.sbir.gov/about/about-sbir

SBIR Program Eligibility

 

Only United States small businesses are eligible to participate in the SBIR program. Business must meet all of the following criteria at the time of Phase I and II awards:

 

Organized for profit, with a place of business located in the United States;

At least 51 percent owned and controlled by one or more individuals who are citizens of, or permanent resident aliens in, the United States, or

At least 51 percent owned and controlled by another for-profit business concern that is at least 51% owned and controlled by one or more individuals who are citizens of, or permanent resident aliens in, the United States; and;

No more than 500 employees, including affiliates.

 

SBIR differs from STTR in two important aspects:

 

The principal investigator must have primary employment with the SBC (unless a waiver is granted by the agency).

SBIR encourages but does not require the SBC to partner with a research institution.

I guess they are funding only small businesses in the US (for profit organizations) so the question is: does it mean that Gerecht will set up her own small business?

Ðhis is very interesting too:

"The US leads the world in three areas important to economic growth - basic research, small high tech firms and venture capital. SBIR pulls them together".

Guys, I know I will be massively flamed for saying this, but there are a few hurdles here.

First, the hydrogel has absolutely definitely NOT been proven to heal full thickness wounds back to 100 % native tissue, no matter what some of you may think. I'm not saying that it can't do this, but I'd be very surprised (and extremely happy) if it could. Perfect regeneration is not as simple as stopping fibrosis. In fact, many researchers familiar with regenerative medicine would probably doubt the possibility of any adult to regenerate site specific tissue exactly as in utero in terms of adnexal density etc. The signaling profile related to positional identity may have changed in our adult form, making such perfect regeneration virtually impossible. Ever seen a skin transplant for example? Then you may have noticed that having scarless skin does not equal perfect regeneration. In either case, the study in Gerecht's paper was not designed to test if the hydrogel could regenerate skin completely. This is the first step in finding out the viability of all this, and also the first step in attracting any capital.

Second, regarding the funding, you will only be looking at government funding. This rudimentary dextran + water gel is not patent protected, so private investors are not massively interested (which they would have been if it had been proven to work completely and there was some kind of protection.) Nevertheless, if this gets proven to work, you can be sure that it will be available world wide fast considering how easy and dirt cheap it is to produce.

Anyhow, just my two cents. Flame on.

A skin transplant and a regenerative approach aren't in my mind comparible. It's like apples and oranges to me.

No one is going to flame you for politely expressing your opinion (I have a hard time remembering any flaming at all in this thread, really). And welcome to the forum. By the way, I once saw a moderator on another forum who's nickname was FreezeFlame. I thought that was awesome.

@scarminator, i see what you're saying.

but as far as it "absolutely definitely NOT been proven to heal full thickness wounds", you may be right as there has been no systematic study to actually prove this per say, but STILL - the preliminary studies seem to indicate just that. That has to count for something. According to the researcher I have spoken with, the skin that returned after a full thickness excision appeared to be totally normal. Preliminary or not, this has never been shown before. There is no excuse why this shouldn't be further investigated.

Also, Geracht has in fact patented the dextran/water hydrogel.

Another also, Lapis is right; skin transplants are a whole different thing and can't even be compared to regeneration.

But, your 2 cents are nevertheless appreciated.

scarminator - don't apologize - it's good to have debate!

and from what I see everyone on this thread puts forward their views in a civilized, adult way

I understand what you say regarding is tissue returned '100% to it's native state'? The paper they produced doesn't compare the regenerated skin to 'normal' mouse skin - but then again in their paper - on page 5 - the final paragraph is headed 'Dextran Hydrogel results in Complete Skin Regeneration' and in this we are told ... 'functional neovascularization .... is critical for perfect skin regeneration' and that ... hydrogels enabled rapid 'neovascularization after a week of treatment' ... also we are told that the skin goes on remodeling itself after week 3 - and by week 5 the mouse skin 'reaches the thickness of normal mouse skin'

those are the positives - along with the fact that the skin is being reported as being 'scar-free' and 'completely regenerated' in proper academic publications - all of which have their articles and their claims vetted

the only thing that bothers me is that the last line of the last paragraph it then says that dextran hydrogel 'promotes complete skin regeneration' - the word promotes isn't as solid as 'results in' - 'results in' means complete skin regeneration is delivered - 'promtes' means to me just helps push it towards that

I guess what we all want to know is would the dextran hydrogel turn an area of removed scar tissue back into what it was before it was before - and not into a differently textured or coloured skin that would still stand out

I'm optimistic from what the paper says that this is some kind of breakthrough

But now there is this funding shocker - from what I understood the hydrogel was patented - but then again if it is so simple maybe that's why companies aren't interested, maybe it can't be - but then - you'd think charities for people with burns or the army or a charitable foundation would be impressed enough with it's potential to fund this - I mean in terms of relative costs it doesn't sound like this would even be expensive to do

and also - is this stuff even likely to be that dangerous - I mean if it is just formations of sugar and water how much damage could that actually do

says that dextran hydrogel 'promotes complete skin regeneration' - the word promotes isn't as solid as 'results in'- 'results in' means complete skin regeneration is delivered - 'promtes' means to me just helps push it towards that

 

I cant resist this thread, I cant stay away, not even for a hiatus of one day.

Regarding your promotion nuance mars. The hydrogels role is to actually promote regeneration, it actually does not control regeneration.

IMO we have to get rid of a paradigm of thought that you have to develop a mechanism, or something that you then use to dogmatically control it. IMO I reckon it is hitting you that it seems so simple and we just let the body do it, you cant get your head around it. I used to be the same, it really got me it didnt fit a dogma I had with regards to mechanism to control it

Logically, from what I see, it can play no central part in the regeneration (its degraded in 7 to 10 days, the 3^rd degree wound re-epithelized in under 14). As all it does is get degraded by the body, then the body re-epithelizes fast. After the body does the re-epithelizing, and it re-epithelizes before a scar loop can take over the healing, thats it. The hydrogel plays no central role in the regeneration. It just gets degraded fast by the neutrophils, and this gives the body a chance to re-epithelize and regenerate before the scar loop/response takes over.

Scarminator, logically the hydrogel has been proven to regenerate the native tissue. And i'd go on to state as it has regenerated the appendages of hair and sebacous glands (these do not grow in scar), I'd say logically everything else would be regenerated and remodelled saying there is no scar blocking off regeneration or remodelling.

@seabs, I understand you still think the team is waiting on funding and that it will come. But you must be growing impatient as the rest of us are. It shouldn't take this long. There's no sufficient excuse. Do you think we can do anything to speed up this process?

Have you ever read the article written by the US Department of Health and Human Services: "2020 A New Vision - A Future for Regenerative Medicine"?

One of things mentioned as a way to ensure the progress of Regenerative Medicine is by 'increasing public awareness'.

"With a few exceptions, regenerative medicine endeavors have not resulted in economically viable products and have not aroused tremendous public interest. With perception often being reality, it is important that regenerative medicine receive the appropriate attention and arouses the excitement merited from the public."

.......We are on the cusp of achieving scar free healing and while the majority of the world will be able to benefit tremendously from it - yet I guarantee virtually no one is aware of this. I just feel like we could push this along. I can't sit here and do nothing and just keep wishing my life away waiting for this to come to fruition at such a slowwwwwwww pace. We have to let the people in charge know how bad this is wanted/needed. Or am I just speaking out of blind, passionate desperation?

 

Another thought occurred to me. It's possible that Johns Hopkins and Gerecht's lab decided that it wasn't worth pursuing because of the various other companies that are researching and creating hydrogels (like the one Vladislav mentioned for use on patients with spinal cord injuries). It could also be the reason investors aren't giving them the funding because they might have already be invested money in those other companies and wouldn't want, in essence, to bet against themselves on the market.

 

 

Well that is called COMPETITION and FREE MARKET! And of course that in 5 years there will be a lot of commercialized hydrogels on the market but the key question is WHICH ONE WILL BE THE MOST EFFECTIVE in the treatmnet of spinal cord injuries and skin wounds/scars and in other areas of regenerative medicine?

 

I completely agree with you. And my point was that investors looking at what seems to already be quite a ubiquitous potential market wouldn't want to throw money around on a lot of them. Also (and probably more true in this case), private investors tend to not fund projects that are seeking knowledge about something (rather than actualizing an idea). And as others have pointed out, Sun and Gerecht's study of the dextran hydrogel was not even about testing whether it could promote scar free healing on its own; that was just a happy unexpected result.

@seabs, I understand you still think the team is waiting on funding and that it will come. But you must be growing impatient as the rest of us are. It shouldn't take this long. There's no sufficient excuse. Do you think we can do anything to speed up this process?

Have you ever read the article written by the US Department of Health and Human Services: "2020 A New Vision - A Future for Regenerative Medicine"?

One of things mentioned as a way to ensure the progress of Regenerative Medicine is by 'increasing public awareness'.

 

"With a few exceptions, regenerative medicine endeavors have not resulted in economically viable products and have not aroused tremendous public interest. With perception often being reality, it is important that regenerative medicine receive the appropriate attention and arouses the excitement merited from the public."

 

.......We are on the cusp of achieving scar free healing and while the majority of the world will be able to benefit tremendously from it - yet I guarantee virtually no one is aware of this. I just feel like we could push this along. I can't sit here and do nothing and just keep wishing my life away waiting for this to come to fruition at such a slowwwwwwww pace. We have to let the people in charge know how bad this is wanted/needed. Or am I just speaking out of blind, passionate desperation?

 

I've written this a few times on here already, but I honestly feel Crowdsourcing (a site like petridish for example but there are others) is the way people like us can make a difference. There was already a review done to

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22397809

And they seemed to find that it's got quite the hopeful future for people looking to get their research funded. Of course, it's not going to be as simple as writing about how much we want something on a message board. You'd need to contact a lab doing research (like Gerecht's), get them interested in doing it, have them settle on a minimum dollar amount that would be helpful, post it on a site like petridish and then promote the hell out of it on social media sites. If you cast a wide enough net and were able to get some exposure (in the media) I'm sure you'd find a lot of people donating to the cause. Hell, on Kickstarter people were willing to fund a GAME to the tune of over $3,000,000. I'd bet that if you got the word out someone with deep pockets (CEO, celebrity etc.) would help fund something like this even if it was just to get some good PR.

Regarding funding for the dextran hydrogel research from the NIH and DoD... hate to sound like I'm crazy with paranoia but both those institutions are already incredibly invested in AFIRM. Since one of AFIRM's guiding mission statements is to develop clinical therapies for wound healing without scarring I don't know how interested they'd be in pumping more money out to someone doing research that could undercut everything they're doing. I sincerely hope that's not the case but you never know.