Thanks for the suggestions! I tried Simple's make up removing wipes. Their line keeps expanding - every time I go to the grocery store, I find new products. My only concern about the B5 moisturizer is that it has dimethicone in it, which is an acne irritant. Have you had any irritation or breakouts from it? All the other ingredients seem harmless, and I love the fact that it contains B5

Thanks for the suggestions! I tried Simple's make up removing wipes. Their line keeps expanding - every time I go to the grocery store, I find new products. My only concern about the B5 moisturizer is that it has dimethicone in it, which is an acne irritant. Have you had any irritation or breakouts from it? All the other ingredients seem harmless, and I love the fact that it contains B5

well i cant find the "light moisturizer" anymore without spf

i think they only sell it with spf now

and a "rich moisturizer"

i always used the light.. its a really nice consistency.. the rich is obviously a little thicker, but if you use a little bit of it its fine

the spf one though is very thick, like a sunscreen (go figure ) and you have to work it in.

but overall they're all okay. i've been liking them.

i dont use anything else from the line

not that i wouldnt, just never tried anything.

Any improvements? I'm gonna post new pics soon. At the moment, my face is soaked in honey in hopes of healing those rolling scars that appeared out of nowhere. My moisturizer has a low percentage of glycolic acid, and I wonder if that's what's irritating my skin. But I have been using it for over a year now. Is your skin overly sensitive to products like mine is? Lately, even washing it with plain water would irritate it, that's why I switched to spring water.

Btw, I used to use Lush's moisturizers but I haven't for a few years ....do you like their products?

Any improvements? I'm gonna post new pics soon. At the moment, my face is soaked in honey in hopes of healing those rolling scars that appeared out of nowhere. My moisturizer has a low percentage of glycolic acid, and I wonder if that's what's irritating my skin. But I have been using it for over a year now. Is your skin overly sensitive to products like mine is? Lately, even washing it with plain water would irritate it, that's why I switched to spring water.

Btw, I used to use Lush's moisturizers but I haven't for a few years ....do you like their products?

my face isnt as sensitive as my neck, but it can still be irritated easily.

what moisturizer are you using? doesnt seem goos to be leaving glycolic acid on your skin all day.. but im not sure

my skin reacts really well to oatmeal and honey right now, i love it:)

i might post pics soon too but so far my skin is sorda steady.. doesnt look worse or better. just feels a lot smoother.

and the spot treatment is the only lush product i use.. it helps heal my acne faster, but its not a miracle.

i wouldnt buy it again. and since their products are based around natural stuff.. its best to just through your own fruits in a blender and put it on than to spend your money on their overpriced stuff, just my opinion

Any improvements? I'm gonna post new pics soon. At the moment, my face is soaked in honey in hopes of healing those rolling scars that appeared out of nowhere. My moisturizer has a low percentage of glycolic acid, and I wonder if that's what's irritating my skin. But I have been using it for over a year now. Is your skin overly sensitive to products like mine is? Lately, even washing it with plain water would irritate it, that's why I switched to spring water.

Btw, I used to use Lush's moisturizers but I haven't for a few years ....do you like their products?

my face isnt as sensitive as my neck, but it can still be irritated easily.

what moisturizer are you using? doesnt seem goos to be leaving glycolic acid on your skin all day.. but im not sure

my skin reacts really well to oatmeal and honey right now, i love it:)

i might post pics soon too but so far my skin is sorda steady.. doesnt look worse or better. just feels a lot smoother.

and the spot treatment is the only lush product i use.. it helps heal my acne faster, but its not a miracle.

i wouldnt buy it again. and since their products are based around natural stuff.. its best to just through your own fruits in a blender and put it on than to spend your money on their overpriced stuff, just my opinion

Oh, I have the opposite issue...my neck isn't as sensitive as my face. I usually test out new products on my neck and my forehead because they are my least acne-prone areas.

The moisturizer I'm using is Boscia's black hydration gel....it's actually very lighweight and can serve as a primer too under makeup. http://www.sephora.com/revitalizing-black-hydration-gel-P297568

I've been using it for over a year, but only recently have I been noticing scarring, so I'm not sure if it's related to the glycolic or other things I'm using. On sensitive areas like under the eye area I use murad's clean scene moisturizer because it's mild (and for teens, but hey, my skin breaks out like a teenager's so why not). I also started using again Neova's DNA damage repair because it has good SPF and zinc oxide, which helps calm down redness.

I used to use Korres pomegranate wipes to take my makeup off with no issues for years, and all of a sudden a few months ago I started getting a bad reaction to those too...my skin would get red and blotchy after using them and I think I was reacting to the fragrance, to which I wasn't sensitive before. So weird.

At least my skin has been feeling smoother, which makes the makeup go on more evenly and covers up all the mess underneath lol.

Yeah, I agree about lush products...a friend recommended their saltwater toner recently, but I think I could probably make my own version using natural ingredients with no fragrance. I used to love their moisturizer, but last time I ordered (about 3-4 years ago) the moisturizer looked moldy (it had a greenish tint and smelled funny). When I tried to return it they wouldn't take it back and told me that this sometimes happens because they do not use preservatives in their natural moisturizers. So I never ordered again...although I love that they don't use parabens in their moisturizers, but I don't want to put mold on my face lol

UPDATE

I'm experiencing a bit of brain fog from the saw palmetto dosage. both with my vision and my thought processes

i've having as much as 5 pills of 160mg a day

i'm going to do by best to cut it to 3 a day.

i rely on it with meals, so i'm going to stop having snacks.

cause i take a pill every time i eat, and i eat 5 times a day lol

im just going to have larger meals cause i want to keep my weight, and maybe even gain a couple pounds

my skin is really calm lately!

i'm happier with it, but who knows how it will be next week.

eating right! lots of water! mild exercise! supplements!

come on clear skin ahah!

it's only been 3 months since i discovered i have PCOS.

by the end of the year, i'm hoping to see some dramatic changes!

UPDATE

I'm experiencing a bit of brain fog from the saw palmetto dosage. both with my vision and my thought processes

i've having as much as 5 pills of 160mg a day

i'm going to do by best to cut it to 3 a day.

i rely on it with meals, so i'm going to stop having snacks.

cause i take a pill every time i eat, and i eat 5 times a day lol

im just going to have larger meals cause i want to keep my weight, and maybe even gain a couple pounds

my skin is really calm lately!

i'm happier with it, but who knows how it will be next week.

eating right! lots of water! mild exercise! supplements!

come on clear skin ahah!

it's only been 3 months since i discovered i have PCOS.

by the end of the year, i'm hoping to see some dramatic changes!

I'm getting brain fog too...plus, I got terrible headaches when I added evening primrose supplements, so I stopped those. It's weird, because I used to take the same dosage of evening primrose every day for years with no problems.

5 times a day might be too much for saw palmetto...what's the total dosage? I'm taking solgar's saw palmetto, and each capsule contains 150mg standardized sp, plus sp berry powder. When I take 5 a day, I feel dizzy, even when I take it with food.

I'm also starting to wonder if another herb is needed in order to balance out what sp is doing to the body....especially if it's somehow affecting estrogen production by lowering androgens. Not sure.

UPDATE

I'm experiencing a bit of brain fog from the saw palmetto dosage. both with my vision and my thought processes

i've having as much as 5 pills of 160mg a day

i'm going to do by best to cut it to 3 a day.

i rely on it with meals, so i'm going to stop having snacks.

cause i take a pill every time i eat, and i eat 5 times a day lol

im just going to have larger meals cause i want to keep my weight, and maybe even gain a couple pounds

my skin is really calm lately!

i'm happier with it, but who knows how it will be next week.

eating right! lots of water! mild exercise! supplements!

come on clear skin ahah!

it's only been 3 months since i discovered i have PCOS.

by the end of the year, i'm hoping to see some dramatic changes!

I'm getting brain fog too...plus, I got terrible headaches when I added evening primrose supplements, so I stopped those. It's weird, because I used to take the same dosage of evening primrose every day for years with no problems.

5 times a day might be too much for saw palmetto...what's the total dosage? I'm taking solgar's saw palmetto, and each capsule contains 150mg standardized sp, plus sp berry powder. When I take 5 a day, I feel dizzy, even when I take it with food.

I'm also starting to wonder if another herb is needed in order to balance out what sp is doing to the body....especially if it's somehow affecting estrogen production by lowering androgens. Not sure.

ive cut it down to 4 a day. im trying for three.. but its difficult cause im hungry all the time

im afraid to not take it when i eat cause i feel like my skin is just going to explode with breakouts lol

but who knows...

the ones i take are 160mg, i should look into getting a smaller dosage.

i havent looked to much into a pill with an adverse affect but you're probably right that would be a good idea.

have you ever moisturized with vaseline?

i dont know why but i was thinking of trying it. but im afraid of breaking out.

its just my scars seem to heal really well when theyre moisturized

i've been doing honey masks almost everyday

and my skin looks sooo much better afterwards

not perfect, of course.. but i think its actually healing my scars!

my skin loves moisture pretty much

UPDATE

I'm experiencing a bit of brain fog from the saw palmetto dosage. both with my vision and my thought processes

i've having as much as 5 pills of 160mg a day

i'm going to do by best to cut it to 3 a day.

i rely on it with meals, so i'm going to stop having snacks.

cause i take a pill every time i eat, and i eat 5 times a day lol

im just going to have larger meals cause i want to keep my weight, and maybe even gain a couple pounds

my skin is really calm lately!

i'm happier with it, but who knows how it will be next week.

eating right! lots of water! mild exercise! supplements!

come on clear skin ahah!

it's only been 3 months since i discovered i have PCOS.

by the end of the year, i'm hoping to see some dramatic changes!

I'm getting brain fog too...plus, I got terrible headaches when I added evening primrose supplements, so I stopped those. It's weird, because I used to take the same dosage of evening primrose every day for years with no problems.

5 times a day might be too much for saw palmetto...what's the total dosage? I'm taking solgar's saw palmetto, and each capsule contains 150mg standardized sp, plus sp berry powder. When I take 5 a day, I feel dizzy, even when I take it with food.

I'm also starting to wonder if another herb is needed in order to balance out what sp is doing to the body....especially if it's somehow affecting estrogen production by lowering androgens. Not sure.

ive cut it down to 4 a day. im trying for three.. but its difficult cause im hungry all the time

im afraid to not take it when i eat cause i feel like my skin is just going to explode with breakouts lol

but who knows...

the ones i take are 160mg, i should look into getting a smaller dosage.

i havent looked to much into a pill with an adverse affect but you're probably right that would be a good idea.

have you ever moisturized with vaseline?

i dont know why but i was thinking of trying it. but im afraid of breaking out.

its just my scars seem to heal really well when theyre moisturized

i've been doing honey masks almost everyday

and my skin looks sooo much better afterwards

not perfect, of course.. but i think its actually healing my scars!

my skin loves moisture pretty much

I take it with food too....usually 4 a day now. Not sure what the right dosage is for me yet, or when it's supposed to fully kick in. I've been on it for almost 2 months now.

Glad the honey masks are working for you! What kind of honey do you use?

I used to use vaseline every night, mostly on my lips, then I read about it being toxic and I got scared. Not sure if that's true or not. But I still have a tube in my bathroom for emergencies. I have been using the yes to tomatoes moisturizer and it's calming down my skin. And the MSM cream seems to be helping too, but it's too soon to tell.

Btw, what do you think of these multivitamins? I was on them for over a year after a big breakout and they really helped my skin (I was also taking acai berry supplements). Do they look ok to combine with saw palmetto you think? http://www.solgar.com/SolgarProducts/Earth-Source-Multi-Nutrient-Tablets.htm

I take it with food too....usually 4 a day now. Not sure what the right dosage is for me yet, or when it's supposed to fully kick in. I've been on it for almost 2 months now.

Glad the honey masks are working for you! What kind of honey do you use?

I used to use vaseline every night, mostly on my lips, then I read about it being toxic and I got scared. Not sure if that's true or not. But I still have a tube in my bathroom for emergencies. I have been using the yes to tomatoes moisturizer and it's calming down my skin. And the MSM cream seems to be helping too, but it's too soon to tell.

Btw, what do you think of these multivitamins? I was on them for over a year after a big breakout and they really helped my skin (I was also taking acai berry supplements). Do they look ok to combine with saw palmetto you think? http://www.solgar.com/SolgarProducts/Earth-Source-Multi-Nutrient-Tablets.htm

i use manuka honey!

and regular honey. both work good to me.

and yeah okay ill try to steer clear from the vaseline

maybe look into use "waxelene" lol i just want a really good deep night moisturizer but have yet to really find one

maybe i should just get the msm cream

is it really moisturizing?

those multivitamins look really good actually.

i personally dont take them.. cause im afraid of overdosing on certain vitamins if i already get enough in my diet, you know?

but those look good, in my opinion!

and as far as makeup goes..

UGH

still on the hunt

this one that i thought was so great oxidizes throughout the day!

i should just give up makeup all together

lol

someday...

argh.

Cool, I usually use regular honey (the one that comes with greek yogurt). I will look for manuka next time I'm at the grocery store.

Yeah, I think the MSM cream is doing something.. or at least it hasn't broken me out worse. Plus, if I wear it under makeup it fills up the holes from scars, which is a bonus for me. Maybe I will try using it as a primer all over. I also use yes to tomatoes moisturizer, but it doesn't really offer deep hydration. Maybe the sebamed moisturizer would work for you if you want something really hydrating, plus it contains vitamin D.

I know what you mean about foundations. I always end up looking orange by the end of the day! Do you use a primer ? Everytime I'm in sephora, they are trying to sell me a primer, saying it will help with oxidation. However, I think that a foundation should stand on its own and not rely on primer to make it look right on the skin. It's so frustrating trying to match my skintone, I know how you feel.

As for the earth source vitamins, I started taking them again...they worked really well last time I was taking them so I figured why not. I just hope saw palmetto doesn't interact with other herbs....have you heard of any interactions? I read that it can interact with vitex if taken together, but haven't read about any other possible interactions (e.g. with zinc, or vitamins).

Cool, I usually use regular honey (the one that comes with greek yogurt). I will look for manuka next time I'm at the grocery store.

Yeah, I think the MSM cream is doing something.. or at least it hasn't broken me out worse. Plus, if I wear it under makeup it fills up the holes from scars, which is a bonus for me. Maybe I will try using it as a primer all over. I also use yes to tomatoes moisturizer, but it doesn't really offer deep hydration. Maybe the sebamed moisturizer would work for you if you want something really hydrating, plus it contains vitamin D.

I know what you mean about foundations. I always end up looking orange by the end of the day! Do you use a primer ? Everytime I'm in sephora, they are trying to sell me a primer, saying it will help with oxidation. However, I think that a foundation should stand on its own and not rely on primer to make it look right on the skin. It's so frustrating trying to match my skintone, I know how you feel.

As for the earth source vitamins, I started taking them again...they worked really well last time I was taking them so I figured why not. I just hope saw palmetto doesn't interact with other herbs....have you heard of any interactions? I read that it can interact with vitex if taken together, but haven't read about any other possible interactions (e.g. with zinc, or vitamins).

i think manuka honey is better for masks with the consistency

but any raw honey should be fine, dont bother spending the extra money

i just did the "tape method' last night and my skin feel soooooooooooooo smooth this morning! lol no real results yet but i think i might try doing this every other day or something

and yeah foundations are really making me mad haha not sure what i'll try next, im considering splurging for a high end one and getting a color match

but... i dont really have the money for it if i end up really liking it lol

in my mind it seems like saw palmetto wouldnt work well with other supplements that lower androgens, such as vitex, or licorice, or other crap because it would be too harsh together? in one sitting i assume

but i havent seen anything about not mixing it

perhaps it be good to do some research on what lowers androgens in the multvitamin as well as the food your taking it with

i know rice, and soy lower testosterone, but i dont think you eat either lol

Hi Ladies,

I haven't had time to read through all of these posts but I read through quite a few and I wan to share my experience with PCOS and acne.

From ages 12-17 I always had irregular periods. I was a normal weight, healthy and athletic. My diet, I admit, wasn't the best but I wasn't malnourished or anything. I went to an OB/GYN to see what I could do about the irregular periods when I was 16 and the Dr. shamed me and acted like all I wanted was birth control... in front of my mom... it was pretty horrible. She didn't bother to do any tests or anything else.

When I went to college a friend of mine was on birth control for anemia and she recommended another doctor to me. I went and had blood tests done and they confirmed that I had PCOS. My LH/FSH ratio was really high. My levels of testosterone, estrogen, thyroid levels, glucose levels etc. were all normal. Since none of my indicators were too off my doctor prescribed Yaz to regulate my hormones and that was it. She explained that once I got to a point in my life when I wanted kids, I might have trouble conceiving, but we could focus on that when the time came. The birth control would help protect my ovaries and I had nothing to worry about in the meantime.

Before birth control my acne was moderate/mild and mostly on my forehead and chin. It slightly improved once I started taking birth control but to be honest, I didn't really think it had anything to do with PCOS or my hormones. I thought I was just growing out of it.

About a year and a half ago I moved across the country for grad school and soon after decided to get the Mirena IUD for various reasons. My skin started to get worse. I tried various things to get it under control. I cut out dairy, I tried the OCM, I used Proactiv, all with minor success at best. I don't want to blame Mirena. Plenty of my friends also have it and none of them have issues with acne. Since Mirena is a lower dose of hormones, and they are localized, I suspect that the hormonal imbalance that is triggered by PCOS is now able to dominate and therefore, I breakout. The low dose of hormones isn't enough to mask the symptoms of PCOS.

After 1 year of struggling (last October) I was at the end of my line. I made an appointment with my OB/GYN for my annual exam and nearly broke down in tears as I explained how frustrated I was with my skin. So we decided to order another set of blood work and I got a referral to see an Endocrinologist. If you have been diagnosed with PCOS and decide to go the medical route for treatment, PLEASE SEE AN ENDOCRINOLOGIST. They specialize in hormonal/endocrine disorders, whereas OB/GYNs just know how to treat them.

Again, I was mostly healthy with the exception of my LH/FSH hormone. Everything else was normal. She prescribed 100mg of Spironolactone and told me to see an dermatologists after a few months of being on the medication. SInce then it has been a rough road. I didn't see ANY improvement for 2 months and things actually got worse for the first month or so. I had to be patient. With hormonal acne, you have to be patient. You can not expect to see results after 1 day. You also can't expect to see results if you're just treating your acne topically. You will never fix the underlying problem.

Spironolactone is amazing. I saw some posts in this forum about Saw Palmetto, and it has similar properties as Spironolactone but the efficacy of Spiro is well documented and much better understood. Spiro blocks testosterone receptors that stimulate oil production and who knows what else. If you are overweight it is likely that an endocrinologist will also prescribe Metformin and/or birth control to help regulate your blood sugar and in turn other hormones. These medications are not just beneficial to your skin but will help keep your reproductive organs healthy and cyst-free.

Diet is also very important. Many women with PCOS are prediabetic and have insulin resistance. It is important to cut back on sugar and refined carbohydrates that spike insulin production. Moderate exercise like walking also helps balance blood sugar.

I hesitated a lot to see a doctor about my PCOS and acne and I don't want to push anyone to go a route they're not comfortable. There are definitely things you can do to manage your hormones without prescription medication. This is what I would recommend that is safe to use without the guidance of a doctor or naturopathic doctor:

- Zinc

- Chrommium (regulates blood sugar)

- Cinnamon in diet and capsule form (regulates blood sugar)

- B vitamins

- Vitamin D3

- Moderate exercise, at an active lifestyle

- A diet high in protein and fiber

- No refined sugars or carbohydrates

- Drink plenty of water (half your weight in ounces is a good estimate)

- CeraVe products are good

Through my search for a "cure" I tired some of the herbal supplements i.e. Saw Palmetto and Vitex (chasteberry). I didn't really see any effect. Some women say they do. If you want to go this route I strongly recommend you do so with the guidance of a Naturopathic doctor to monitor you. If you don't know what your underlying hormone imbalance is you are at risk of just further setting it off. The endocrine system is complex and it is much safer and effective if you have someone who understands it guiding you.

Best of luck and health to all of you.

xx Shawna

I just read this about saw palmetto:

It is important to understand that saw palmetto (and potentially any herb that lowers blood levels of testosterone) will cause your androgens to be converted to estrogens. This increase in estrogens can further complicate your PCOS, and risk your long term health. When you slow down the conversion of testosterone to DHT, you leave more testosterone to be converted to estrone. In other words, you may be trading one problem in this picture for another. The risks of elevated estrogens are increased if you are also not ovulating, meaning you are not producing enough progesterone to balance the estrogen effect. This increases your risk of female cancers as well as worsening premenstrual experiences like breast tenderness, belly bloating and weight gain.

Source: http://www.drnandunne.com/?p=1808

I thought saw palmetto does not impact estrogen directly. I would rather not take saw palmetto in conjunction with another herb (such as vitex) in case of any interactions. What are your thoughts on this? I also posted this in a related thread. I hope saw palmetto will not create a new imbalance! I noticed some weight gain recently and bloating (which could also be related to stopping probiotics for a few days) - I might decrease the saw palmetto dose. For me, hormone therapy using drugs is not an option. I would rather take herbs for my condition. Also, I am too broke to see an endocrinologist right now.

I hope it's not a catch 22 lol! Have you had any improvement?

I hope it's not a catch 22 lol! Have you had any improvement?

When I was taking Saw Palmetto I didn't see any improvement but I only took it for 2 months. My skin didn't get worse either and I didn't experience any side effects. Once I started taking Spironolactone it took 3 months to see any improvement, so it is definitely possible that you would need to wait just as long or longer to see improvement with Saw Palmetto since they work in similar ways. My skin is clear (CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR!) now but I do have quite a bit of scarring I need to work on. I have quite a few blog posts and photos on my profile if you want to take a look at the process I went through.

I really wouldn't suggest self-medicating with prescription medication or herbal medication without consulting a doctor or naturopath since you can't really monitor what is going on. Especially Vitex because I think it is the stronger of the two herbal medications. If you do take Vitex it is often recommended to only take it right before and during your period, not the duration of your cycle. Unfortunately there just isn't much published scientific data about Saw Palmetto and women.

Here is an interesting paper published by a naturopath that discusses common and natural treatments for PCOS:

http://www.drmeletis.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/Polycystic-Ovary-Syndrome.pdf

Again, even with prescription strength medication it took quite some time to see results, so don't get your expectations too high right away.

Good luck!

Hey guys I just wanted to write here cuz I too have read some of your posts and also was diagnosed with pcos. I tried to go the natural route, w/o even a naturopath doctor at first, and you guys it is so hard and frustrating. the internet has sooooooooooo much false information. seriously, please do not believe pretty much everything you read unless its off wikipedia. even then--it will be so worth your while to find some good doctors and put your trust back in them. yes doctors have been wrong b4 but when it comes down to it, they are experts and if you find good gynos/endocronologists/naturopaths (even tho I really think that naturopaths are not full experts) it will literally save you.

That thing you posted about saw palmetto and estrogen and blah blah..that is BULLSHIT. i'm sorry but that randomn person off the internet does not know what they are talking about. if I would have listened to shady blogs on the internet, my issues would be in full force and I would have massive anxiety as well and continuing to isolate myself. resuming birth control helped reduce sooo many of my pcos symptoms that I was able to get my body back to where it was BEFORE i had pcos. I had energy to exercise, my sugar cravings decreased by a lot, I didn't feel insane, etc etc. I am also taking ovablend which is great.

you guys, birth control is not the devil, i have talked to multiple gynos and an endo about this. birth control, if you live a healthy lifestyle, can actually work to prevent cancer. it actually is normal for our bodies to think they are a little pregnant all the time; humans evolved being pregnant very often, but in modern times we might only be pregnant once or twice or never. a gyno told me this. if you are healthy, and on a good bc, it will pose no extra harm to you. if you are not menstruating for long periods of time, and continually having ovarian cysts, that is dangerous to your health, so is having high blood sugar and high cholesterol that even thin women like myself had with pcos. a lot of times natural medicine, especially when not prescribed by a doctor, is NOT enough to help you. or it is the extremely long and difficult route. if i hadn't started taking bcps, it might have taken years to balance out my hormones with who knows how much acne and emotional hardship in between. we're only in our twenties once right?

after 30 days of being on bc, my pcos is pretty much gone. it's just hard for me to read these posts and know you guys are struggling and probably torturing yourself over things like diet like I was. Yes its good to cut down on sugar and refined carbs, but literally before I sought doctors help I was developing a full blown eating disorder based on trying to cure my pcos through diet. don't do that to yourself. don't eat salmon for breakfast unless you actually like it. I also had a food allergy test administered by a naturopath and found I had a medium dairy allergy, likely brought on by the super crazy state my body was in, so I cut that out and have been feeling better. I also reduced sugar and refined carbs, but I am no longer going insane about my diet.

Another thing that helped a lot was a low dose of antidepressants, but that is a whole other story i'm just putting that out there cuz I know how stressful this stuff can be. antidepressants reduced my sugar cravings by even more than bc's (we crave sugar a lot of times because it produces seretonin and is a mood lifter), and pretty much eliminated my anxiety, which was indirectly causing me acne. And lastly, black soap has done beyond amazing wonders for the current state of my skin. even tho my skin stopped producing as many new zits with bc and changing my diet, i still had a shitload of previously clogged pores, blackheads etc. and its pretty much been a miracle for those. i shouldn't say miracle cuz i know everyone on here, myself included is cautious of words like that. but just being totally honest. if you guys have any questions, please ask me and i hope i haven't alienated u guys with my pro bc standpoint. take care xx

after 30 days of being on bc, my pcos is pretty much gone.

Hi kelseylee, I agree with like 98% of what you're saying. However, birth control is not always enough to "stop", "cure" or whatever PCOS. Birth control can be useful for getting a regular period and can help with some PCOS indicators (like acne) but is highly dependent on the type of birth control and the patient. There is a user on the forums here, her username is GreenGables and her signature as well as a lot of her topics go into great detail about different birth controls and their efficacy in treating acne.

I would be careful not to shame people into thinking that the only way they can get healthy is with birth control. That isn't true. Birth control is an option, but many women have other reasons for not wanting to go on it. (Health insurance, blood clotting disorders, trying to conceive, etc). My initial workup with my endocrinologist cost about $300 dollars and I HAVE health insurance. There are lots of women who cannot afford that.

Obviously there are some things that women can do without resorting to birth control that can help. There is no cure to PCOS and actually, there are many types of PCOS so one treatment that may be successful for one woman may not be for another. Some women can cure themselves just by losing weight, for instance. There are other women, like me, who still have symptoms and I have NEVER been overweight. Some PCOS patients are pre-diabetic and have other health conditions to consider when choosing a treatment.

I'm definitely pro-birth control too but I don't think its the only solution and is only means to an end for some women. Lots of women with PCOS want to have children and are infertile. Birth control wont do much for them, for instance.

There are quite a few other prescription medications that have clinically helped women with PCOS clear their acne and other PCOS symptoms. I mentioned some in my pervious post. I have had great success with spironolactone.

Anyways, I'm not trying to jump on you about anything. I think you're generally correct, but you're perspective is a little limited.

Best of luck,

xx Shawna

Hey, I think you are correct as well but might have made a few assumptions. The reason I focused on birth control is because of the circumstances of these two ladies in particular. they are young and it would probably be the doctor recommended option for them, as it less serious than spiro, metformin, etc. This is why I also emphasized the need to go to a doctor. If they are able to spend money on natural alternatives, they can spend the $140 w/o insurance to see a gyno. I know medical stuff is expensive, but it's your life and your health and there literally might be nothing better to spend your money on esp if you have a medical condition.

I really was not trying to shame anyone, and it was a mistake if I did, it's just hard for me to watch other people go through pain and struggle without getting results or outside help. And i''m not positive that's what's happening for these posters, but it is the sense I got. I do intellectually disagree that there is no "cure" for pcos. if you fundamentally change how your body is operating, and you have zero symptoms and medical evidence of pcos, you are clear. This doesn't mean it can't come back if you do not maintain your health. I got pregnant two years before I was diagnosed with pcos and had years of regular periods and zero acne not on birth control. Pcos came as a result of a drastic change in diet, activity level, stress level and stopping birth control and antidepressants abruptly. I know pcos issues are a lot more complicated for people trying to conceive or who can't take bc/other medications for other reasons, I have read many, many stories of people going through these issues, but those are not the specific issues these women are posting about.

I do think some people are more genetically predisposed to pcos than others, and the stronger the genetic disposition, the more difficult it is going to be even with ideal lifestyle changes. for me, after I made certain lifestyle changes, my body quickly began going back to the way it functioned before. Even though I was a "normal" weight when I was diagnosed with pcos, I had a much, much higher body fat percentage than I had ever had, way less muscle and my digestive system was not functioning properly. I felt beyond awful etc, etc. I'm not saying this is true for all women whatsoever. I am probably lucky that exercise rapidly altered my condition, and I also have a lot of knowledge and practical access to exercise, but that's not to say getting back in shape hasn't been harder than its ever been. Part of why I got so intense is because when I was not treating pcos with a gyno's help, I literally only had energy to sit on the couch all day. and I craved sugar and carbs constantly. I felt sicker than I had ever felt in my life. My blood sugar was high, my cholesterol was high, my blood pressure was a little high--all things that had been on the very low end of normal my whole life. And my face and ezcema were blowing up. The fight is like 10x harder if you don't have outside help. And i really don't think bc's need to be a permanent option-I am using them to get to a point with my body that I have been at previously. It doesn't have to be bc, but I do think seeing a medical doctor is very important.

Honestly, I think stress is a huge symptom of pcos. What's going on in the body generates a lot of mental and physical anxiety. This in turn creates more stress, and the cycle continues. This makes it all the harder to deal with. I know I can't speak for others if anxiety is a large factor, but I am curious because I know it was for me. As my symptoms disappeared so has my anxiety. Going back on antidepressants helped as much as birth control, but I know this is circumstantial to my situation.

I know this is a difficult, rocky journey and I hope I didn't say anything offensive because I have had people say difficult things to me as a result of this. The first thing the gyno said to me when she walked in the door was "oh, GOOD, you're not overweight" and then she went on about it more. She was like, "if you're thin, this is going to be so much easier, you really need to stay thin". In addition, I had lunch with a friend and told her about what was going on, reluctantly, and I mentioned how the body is unable to get pregnant during pcos (definitely not a goal of mine) and she said "ohhh, yeah, so it's like your own body telling you that you're way too unhealthy to have kids". We are not that close and this kind of just re iterated that.

I guess for me part of the obsession with treating pcos "naturally" came as a result of the massive amounts of anxiety I was experiencing and I just wanted to maybe open that door a little bit as an option.

i want to thank both of you so much for taking the time to respond to this!

i'm sorda iffy about taking birth control! but i'm definitely willing to talk to a naturopath or specialist about it

i've also heard of spiro, i want to start looking into both a bit more

remembering that there is no cure for PCOS is always a little disheartening

but i'll do anything to control the acne and hair growth in my case:/

i hope saw palmetto isnt doing any long term damage

bleh..

personally the diet change has been okay with me..

i'm not too too strict

i just primarly eat what makes me feel good

i can't stick to any "diet plan" it can drive me nuts lol

which of course won't help my body any.

I guess for me part of the obsession with treating pcos "naturally" came as a result of the massive amounts of anxiety I was experiencing and I just wanted to maybe open that door a little bit as an option.

Wow, thanks for sharing your experience. It is really insightful. I know what you mean about the anxiety, depression, stress, etc. And please don't worry, you didn't offend me and I hope I didn't offend you either.

The sentence I quoted particularly hit home and brings up a point I should have emphasized more in my post too. Self-medicating can be almost like an addiction. It has been for me. With every new pill bottle there seems to be a promise of a cure and a simple solution. Part of what drove me to self-medicate was a few bad experiences with doctors. Like I mentioned before, I am thin and quite healthy, so two doctors failed to take my concerns about my skin, fertility and irregular period seriously. It wasn't until after a few years of failed self-medicating that I broke down in tears at my Dr's office (I was a complete nut-case, you should have seen the look on the nurses' faces) and was finally offered some blood tests to see what my hormone levels were. Self-medicating can be a dangerous and fruitless path and you're right, could lead to spending the same, if not more, amount of money that it would have cost to go to a doctor. Not to mention all the time it takes to research all of the information. When I tried Saw Palmetto, for instance, I scoured message boards, youtube videos, medical journals etc. trying to find information and documented cases of success to further fuel my need to cure myself. I probably spend 50 or more hours researching it. A trip to my Dr. took an hour or two has lead to greater results than I ever could have achieved on my own.

Again, I agree with just about everything you said. Its just that PCOS is so complex and manifests itself differently in every woman's life that it is difficult to say "oh, this is what you should do to fix your problems because it worked for me". Geez, and how frustrating is it that the medical community still hasn't figured it all out for us? If you search around PubMed (an online medical journal library), it quickly becomes apparent how little is understood about the endocrine system, PCOS and acne in general! I mean, it is generally accepted that doctors DO NOT understand exactly how some forms of birth controls and anti-despressants function or why some people get acne and others don't. They simply do not know! It amazes me. The same goes for PCOS and it's diagnoses (i.e. this link). There has been a struggle in the medical community to come to a consensus about what PCOS is, what causes it and how to treat it, although there is clinically evidence that some treatments work on some patients.

Given all this, I guess I am curious how rare my case is. You said you have had high blood pressure, cholesterol, etc and your PCOS developed after you had your first child? My case is almost the opposite. I've had irregular periods since puberty but everything else has always been ideal (my weight, blood pressure, diet, exercise, etc.) I do not fit the PCOS mold at all except for the fact that my LH:FSH ratio is very high, my periods are irregular and I have acne and excess body hair. I have never tried to conceive, so I can't say anything about my fertility, except that an ultrasound indicated that my ovaries look good. I wonder how certain treatments would help me vs. someone with a more "classical" case of PCOS who might be cured by simply losing weight. Losing weight isn't even really an option for me-- I'm 5'11" and 140 pounds.

Sorry for rambling, I don't necessarily want to take over this thread

wow this is seriously the best response ever, thank you so much. After writing those two posts, I realized how limited my perspective is and I have learned a lot about pcos since even then, but really thank you for understanding...as you said, I've learned that it's a lot more complicated than "this is what I did to fix my problems so you should do it too".

It's a little crazy how similar our experiences have been. In terms of getting frustrated with conventional medicine, attempting the natural route, finding new frustration and issues, and then finding the way back to an overall approach which includes conventional medicine. I'll have to read through your post again, and the other lady who wrote me back too--thank you, you took that quite well, and write a more comprehensive approach. Thanks guys! I also have posted in stacy's spiro log which is a great log too.

hmm okay so I'm trying to provide more information here but don't know how to do so w/o being awkward...suffice it to say I do not have children...if that makes sense....and am 25. I got pcos after going off bc 9 months ago, and i've been back on them for a month. Honestly I was mindblown about my cholesterol issues, I literally had freakishly good health my whole life, I know I already mentioned that but I guess it was a big blow to my ego to have such "unhealthy" numbers so I try to defend it a lot ha ha. But yeah, basically between ages 10 and 22 I exercised (seriously) like 3-6 days a week, never had acne, never had digestive issues, etc. I seriously had the body of an athlete/model...incidentally I just always thought of myself as normal and I never thought of myself this way. Then, I went through a really bad break up and difficult time in college w/roomates who freaked out on me for trying to move out, all at the same time, and basically just like caved in on myself. I am also genetically prone to depression and anxiety on both sides. I gave up on being healthy at all, partially cuz I didn't realize what I was even giving up, and my self esteem plummeted. I just couldn't recover basically, i'm doing counseling now to get through it all . but yeah basically I just got stuck in a vicious emotional rut and it started f*ing up my health.

I stopped exercising, and just ate whatever cuz I didn't care at all. The truth is I didn't have any appetite from the depression, but forced myself to eat cuz I was afraid not to. I didn't gain weight really, I was too bummed for that, but I just got progressively unhealthy. I started having digestive problems. Anyway it was a shit time but I did stay on bc the whollllle time, so part of my health issues were even being like hidden from me, cuz I didn't realize I had hormonal issues until later (going off bc). Then i started working at a bakery and we had unlimited access to cupcakes, etc, and coffee so I lived off simple carbs and caffeine and dairy (don't do this). I worked at the bakery for 2.5 years, but still on bc so pcos hadn't come up. Then, I went off bc (9 months ago), quit working @ the bakery, and then...periods stop...acne start...wild sugar cravings...few months later...troublesome blood test. I'm not exactly sure what caused the high blood pressure, I think possibly anxiety as I had just come off antidepressants, and general average health. It wasn't high enough for them to say anything @ my physical, but I knew the number sounded high for me. And I had highish blood sugar (not out of normal range but the naturopath said she'd like to see me lower and so would l). The high blood sugar I definitely related to pcos because of the insulin resistance aspect, which I wish I fully understood, but understand to some small degree. I think the testosterone was really messing with the cholesterol...I felt very skinny fat. Also I had no energy to exercise...evil testosterone.

There's many more details of course, but I really liked your writing and think you articulated a lot of my larger thoughts about the medical community & pcos and all the bizzarre mystery around it.

PS I have definitely spent 50 hours watching obscure youtube videos questionably related to acne-health-mystery claims & many terrible "health" blogs. my mom at one point asked me if I was going to "read the whole internet".

Hi I'm not sure if I have PCOS yet but I was on minocycline for my acne. I got off it because I started getting tiny light to black chin hairs in one spot on my chin and I thought the pills were causing it. My confidence was finally boosting up since the minocycline pills helped my acne clear so much I had clear skin finally everywhere! No more face acne no more backne no more and chest acne for once in my life finally. But since Ive gotten off them my self esteem plummeted, when the acne came back and the chin hair made me feel even worse! The chin hairs makes my self esteem drop by like 40 to 50% than my acne at like 10% since. Ive been dealing with acne since I was 11 now I'm 19 so I've been used to my acne for 8 years or my entire teen life. So jealous of people who get acne in high school I wish my preteen years were acne free. Anyways the chin hair makes me feel like a man its worse now that people have found out making fun of my tiny beard. -__- ugh its really taking a toll on me which stresses me out giving me more acne! I do have dark hairs on my tummy trail since puberty but the chin hair is new. My periods have mostly been regular give or take being late a couples days to a week because of stress from school sometimes. I dont pluck my chin hairs (I trim them) although I want to pluck so bad, but from horrible experience on my tummy trail and ahem nipples from getting ingrown hairs. I know better now than to do that it just leaves ugly scars picking at the ingrown hairs. I hate ingrown hairs so much they are the devil! I just wouldn't want ingrown chin hairs next to pimples in the same area lol. Sometime soon I'm going to get my hormones tested by my doctor I hope its not PCOS but myself diagnosis says it is. Also I still dont know if my minocycline pills caused the chin hairs or not so I'm still going to stay away from them until I get tested. Also does anyone know how to deal with the excessive hair thing? I also have an insane amount of baby hairs but I was born with them they literally take up 80% of my forehead plucking them is such a pain! Must be my Spanish blood

Hi I'm not sure if I have PCOS yet but I was on minocycline for my acne. I got off it because I started getting tiny light to black chin hairs in one spot on my chin and I thought the pills were causing it. My confidence was finally boosting up since the minocycline pills helped my acne clear so much I had clear skin finally everywhere! No more face acne no more backne no more and chest acne for once in my life finally. But since I™ve gotten off them my self esteem plummeted, when the acne came back and the chin hair made me feel even worse! The chin hairs makes my self esteem drop by like 40 to 50% than my acne at like 10% since. I™ve been dealing with acne since I was 11 now I'm 19 so I've been used to my acne for 8 years or my entire teen life. So jealous of people who get acne in high school I wish my preteen years were acne free. Anyways the chin hair makes me feel like a man its worse now that people have found out making fun of my tiny beard. -__- ugh it™s really taking a toll on me which stresses me out giving me more acne! I do have dark hairs on my tummy trail since puberty but the chin hair is new. My periods have mostly been regular give or take being late a couples days to a week because of stress from school sometimes. I don™t pluck my chin hairs (I trim them) although I want to pluck so bad, but from horrible experience on my tummy trail and ahem nipples from getting ingrown hairs. I know better now than to do that it just leaves ugly scars picking at the ingrown hairs. I hate ingrown hairs so much they are the devil! I just wouldn't want ingrown chin hairs next to pimples in the same area lol. Sometime soon I'm going to get my hormones tested by my doctor I hope it™s not PCOS but myself diagnosis says it is. Also I still don™t know if my minocycline pills caused the chin hairs or not so I'm still going to stay away from them until I get tested. Also does anyone know how to deal with the excessive hair thing? I also have an insane amount of baby hairs but I was born with them they literally take up 80% of my forehead plucking them is such a pain! Must be my Spanish blood

personally i pluck the chin hairs i get

i dont bother with the hairs on my forehead, since theyre so light and barely noticeable

but my chin bothers me a lot!

i trim too when im lazy but so far plucking has been fine

very rarely i'll get an ingrown hair and it will leave a red mark

Hey! how's it going? Haven't commented in a while, been really busy with work.