Greetings---

Sierra I looked at your pics and was loling at the carb craving comments...haha definitely had those!!! I've found theyve gone down with bc, and I was thinking back to when I was on bc before or just when I was feeling better in general, and I craved savory foods almost predominantly. I mean I still liked fruit and occasional sweets, but mostly I would be like yum dinner, savory food etc. Whereas now i'm like thinking about sweets based things, even though I really try to eat mostly savory food. it's definitely hormonal/acne related for me. I hope they continue to go down. Have sugar cravings gone down with spiro or bc for you?

stacy to answer your question my skin is kind of shit right now. I even started second guessing myself about not popping a few of these pimples...like am I somehow making it worse by not taking the thing out of its misery?? I am still for not touching my face but it seems to be testing me. If I had a splinter on my hand I would prolly dig that thing out so i hope i'm not making the wrong choice. idk. dermatologists ALWAYS (or at least to me) say don't touch your pimples etc. I honestly avoid mirrors a lot. especially before washing my face. it's not that washing like instantly cures my acne but for some reason my skin look so much better after i've washed; I think the oil makes my skin look really rough. I looked in the mirror yesterday at some randomn time and was like oh shit my skin is bad! and then I washed my face and was like oh it's not that bad. so wtf. i've concluded it's averagely bad. I do think it's a phase i'm coming out of though and getting worse before it gets better is all part of the process.

that's really intense about your body changes-ugh that would be freaking me out but i really think you will find a solution, it's a trial and error process. a healthy body and no acne are not by any means mutually exclusive-it will prolly just take more experimenting. I actually had that (fuller figure) when I 1. had high testosterone and 2 started a higher hormone bc than I was used to which I hated (mononessa). ortho tri cyclen lo is like a miracle for me, i've been losing weight and feeling way better, hopefully my old body is coming back. I still have bad anxiety so all is not perfect and I keep reading health stuff that just makes me more anxious. example, in the new york times today I read that ppl who have lower heartbeats/minute live way longer and are less prone to disease and blah blah. And I started freaking out about my heart rate not being low enough, and me not being in shape enough, and that made my heart beat faster haha. I feel like i've turned into a little bit of health-freak but not in a good way. in the literal sense that I freak out about my health.

honestly as far as deciding about birth control, i know it's rough and it can sound like a bad/scary option in certain situations. that being said, in certain times/hormonal states it can actual help us out a lot. I used to go on and off birth control with zero problems, but I was in a different health state/phase in my life. during a time of stress and run down health, going off bc was an obvious nightmare. my point is that going back on birth control is not necessarily a life sentence, if you find its the right thing to do. it just helps to put some of that negative fear thinking to rest if you do go on the bc because at least in the short term, it will help you. I kind of look at it like antidepressants-sometimes you need it and hey life is kind of short when you think about it. and it's also hard enough that we don't need to make it even harder on ourselves. oh and I was going to say, I had low P and E but HIGH T when I was not ovulating, so classic explanation of no periods. Apparently you can have low of all three and still not ovulate.

Hey Sierra - You are not ranting! Thank you for answering all my questions and being thorough. Ok I have one more question for you. Last time you were on Spiro were you also on the birth control pill? I'm wondering whether for us it is necessary to add in order to be clear. In light of this new information about my estrogen my doctor did recommend the pill, or hormone replacement therapy, to stave off bone loss. When my issue was just acne he didn't recommend it because I told him how my acne was at its worst for years when I was on the pill, and I had no idea it could be related. So I'm nervous about adding it back in. Another thing I'm wondering is if it really helps because it's not pure estrogen but rather a derivative. Like you are on the pill and your estrogen is only 21 - so I wonder if it is helping to bring it up at all? Or it's possible the estrogen in the pill can't be picked up in blood tests. I'm going to ask my endo about this at my next appointment. I am leaning towards being on just regular estradiol, but they have to cycle you with progesterone otherwise there is a risk for cancer. In any case it's not really a choice - I have to do SOMETHING because of the major risk of early on-set osteoporosis with such low estrogen at such a young age (I'm 32). How old are you?

Kelsey - That's good the ortho lo is suiting you well. I think when you have high testosterone the solution becomes more clear - bring down testosterone. The pill is good for this especially when it's testosterone produced by the ovaries which circulates in your blood. Since I don't have that problem I am sort of shooting in the dark here. I think the spiro will work for you though - hang in there!

Hi lifeinfaith--I should go get my black soap to see what it has in it. okay it doesn't say but from the etsy store: water, shea butter, shea tree bark ash, cocoa pods ash, plantain ash, coconut oil, palm oil, palm kernel oil, & brown sugar. however I think the oils have been sort of "converted" into soap cuz there's nothing oily feeling about the cleanser (soap is made from oil).

I haven't had any experience with black soap clogging my pores, in fact that is the number one problem I was using it for...I had about 100 or so clogged pores between my chin, nose, eyebrows/between eyebrows, forehead, temple and even ear. something needed to be done because they were bumpy and out of control. To answer your question, I dont think black soap is a pore clogger...it is more of a PURGER, so you have to be ready for that. It's actually the only thing i've ever used that's properly or aggressively purged my skin. I used to use salycilic acid to try and achieve this and I never saw any results (purging) or I manually extracted each and every one of my clogged pores. The second I started using black soap, i noticed it eliminated all the oil on my face, seem to sort of like suck it up or dissolve it completely. and it also seemed to lift and draw out any clogged pores I had. This is a slow process, it usually takes about a week for a pore to fully unclog once it starts coming to the surface, even if its really small. But yeah its hard to describe unless you use it.

As far as applying oil on your face, I tried that too with jojoba oil, and it didn't seem to wreak havoc (so many of my pores are ALREADY clogged) but at the same time it definitely made me kind of nervous. I never stuck with the using oil method long enough to see if it worked; I was applying it after black soap in the hope it might help some of the pores unclog/loosen but I find just using black soap and some SA (2%) feels better. If you do get some, I would suggest using it only once a day for a little while, or even every other day if you're skin is easily aggravated, and see how it feels because when you use it twice a day, it will purge faster. most of the purging for me happened w/o causing a zit, but some pores that unclog may come up as a whitehead.

Sometimes I think I should stop using any cleanser or SA and just try the oil cleansing method, because it sounds "gentler", but I don't know if I have the bravery/stamina for that.

The etsy store I got it from is blackbutterfly621, and just search black soap. I also use african shea butter on my face with zero pore clogging problems, so I may have the kind of skin that clogs from its own oil (yay) but not from external products as much. best of luck to you!!! there's lots of good info on this log as well.

Hi Michi-

I almost wish I could test my hormone levels daily out of curiosity to see how much the bc has affected them, how much testosterone is down etc. I think stacy said that too. It's been almost 3 months and I can tell things are different than they were the first or second month, I think it took THIS long for appropriate shifts to really start happening. the first and second month back on bc sucked. I've actually never tried spiro; the gynocologist just prescribed bc which seems fine for now IF it starts kicking in more and more like I'm hoping. I know what you mean about shooting in the dark-my digestive system got messed up throughout this process and even before, and no one had any good explanations and it was confusing. the best thing I did was just try to stay afloat in the dark and be willing to try any and all suggestions from a doctor I trusted. do you think you're going to go on bc?

that is a great tutorial! I've basically heard that from the esthetician I saw, who was awesome EXCEPT for the fact she caused a small scar once I think it will go away completely over time but still........and that was when I asked her to extract very lightly. anyway, I do think in some instances it's better to pop the zits. i mean...it's sort of like minor surgery. if we didn't do surgery for people in real life, they would die. that being said, i feel like some kind of freaky addict cuz I seriously won't even pop one. I'm like all or nothing. I'm afraid if I relieve one...i might start getting encouraged and then it would be on to all the others. If it's an inflamed clog pore aka a pimple, and its totally ready like u said, i think its fine and even beneficial to pop. what I have noticed with non inflamed clogged pores (closed comodones, blackheads, whatever else) then I've found more success with leaving them IF I have something effective topically that draws them out. Whenever i would extract my own non inflamed clogged pores they would often fill back up in the same spot, but when they've purged on their own they haven't come back at all. this is still mostly a theory but i'm curious to see the end result of not having squeezed pores for so long.

my acne actually got worse BECAUSE of this I figured out. I use to basically maintain my mild/moderate acne for the last year by continually giving myself all over extractions. while "effective" it just sort of masked the problem. now my acne is worse but it feels like it's actually healing or something. idk. time shall tell. it's doing better today but, I have not been staring in the mirror or anything, quite the opposite. I actually decided to take a break from washing as well, cuz so many of my pores are unclogging right now that I don't even feel the need to keep encouraging my skin to purge, I just need these ones to finish purging. for example, I have this large (sorry...) blackhead on my nose. it's more just that i can tell it's deep and normally i would have extracted that shit in a heartbeat. but this time, the blacksoap drew it out (very quickly, thank god) and it's like a blackhead scab on the side of my nose. i let all my scabs fall away naturally (i think this is an even worse crime than popping a zit--picking a scab. big no no ) so we'll see what happens with this guy.

And while we're at it i'll just get more in detail. so that dumb zit on my forehead that I DIDNT pop (which probably would have gone away much better if I did) is like so nuts. its formed blood under it (!!?!??!?!) I've never really had a zit do this. i mean of course i've had zits bleed, after popping them tho. never have i had a whitehead stay there, form blood under it, and just like keep existing strangely. it sort of itches too so i hope that means its healing. the rest of my forehead continues to purge and there are spots that are flatter with less clogged pores, but it still looks bumpy to me and my eyebrows are kind of acting out right now.

omg carb cravings. sigh. i mean, i think everyone has these to one extent or another. carbs give us energy blah blah. but yeah, I love a really good sweet. ironically i don't like things overly sweet, so that just means i like expensive stuff or fruit based pastries like muffins. I can TOTALLY see how metformin would take away carb cravings. from my memory of googling it weeks ago, it like puts insulin to use directly into your cells or something crazy, cuz IR means your body is not able to use all the free insulin. i probably just heinously butchered that explanation but i'm too lazy to open another browser. I knew I had some level of IR previously, but birth control and getting my health together is helping that a lot. Did you ever get your glucose levels measured. mine were def below pre diabetic but still higher than I want. 5.1 was the number last time i got blood tested (don't have the units right here). I know you said your levels were really good and thats why the doctor said it was unecessary, so hopefully bc will help you in the long run too. Do you think you are craving carbs cuz you are thin and ur body wants to put on weight or is it prolly hormonal?

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Yes so it's tough to know what had the most impact of if it was both combined. I think that's so interesting that Yaz broke you out because it's a derivative of Spiro and Spiro works for you. As much as we try to figure this stuff out it's all a mystery isn't it? Are you planning on getting your hormones rechecked at any time? I just got mine redone this morning again - even though I did it 3 weeks ago the Endo wanted a second look before he refers me for an MRI (for insurance purposes and just to make sure). I'll find out my results in 2 weeks. Oh and the reason for my MRI is because it boggles his mind how my estrogen can be so low yet my FSH is also low - the pituitary gland in our brain sends a signal to raise FSH to try to in turn raise low estrogen and that is not happening for me. What was your FSH?

 

Hey Sierra - You are not ranting! Thank you for answering all my questions and being thorough. Ok I have one more question for you. Last time you were on Spiro were you also on the birth control pill? I'm wondering whether for us it is necessary to add in order to be clear. In light of this new information about my estrogen my doctor did recommend the pill, or hormone replacement therapy, to stave off bone loss. When my issue was just acne he didn't recommend it because I told him how my acne was at its worst for years when I was on the pill, and I had no idea it could be related. So I'm nervous about adding it back in. Another thing I'm wondering is if it really helps because it's not pure estrogen but rather a derivative. Like you are on the pill and your estrogen is only 21 - so I wonder if it is helping to bring it up at all? Or it's possible the estrogen in the pill can't be picked up in blood tests. I'm going to ask my endo about this at my next appointment. I am leaning towards being on just regular estradiol, but they have to cycle you with progesterone otherwise there is a risk for cancer. In any case it's not really a choice - I have to do SOMETHING because of the major risk of early on-set osteoporosis with such low estrogen at such a young age (I'm 32). How old are you?

You're very welcome!

Last time I was prescribed spiro I didn't start taking birth control until after about 4 months. I can't tell if it was the combination that worked, or just the spiro because my skin didn't clear until I started taking birth control, right around that 4 month mark. But, that could have just been the spiro taking it's sweet time to start clearing my skin... I know, it's confusing.

The estrogen level I listed was actually taken pre-birth control. I started taking the pill right after I did those labs, but at the time of the blood test I had been off of the pill for 9 months. So maybe my estrogen is higher now? I assume it is but haven't had my hormone levels checked since I started spiro and BC.

As for birth control, before I started spiro I had experimented with a few different brands to clear my skin and my experience is that some really helped my acne and some made it TERRIBLE. I remember Yasmin (which so many people raved about for controlling acne) made my skin horrendous. But it totally works for others. I was just shooting in the dark without a hormone tests so maybe since you actually have your hormone levels your doctor would be able to prescribe the right birth control that wouldn't make you break out.

Have any of you guys tried chemical peels or microdermabrasion for helping clear clogged pores? Sometimes I feel like the retin a is making it worse not better and I've been on retinoids for almost 4 months!

i did a few tca peels and they dried up my existing acne but didnt really clear out my pores too much. best thing i did was get a facial and then everyday in the morning i use thayers alcohol free toner with aloe and then in the evening i use proactiv toner with glycolic acid. that really helps to keep them clear along with my benzaclin too. glycolic acid helps with red marks too so its a win/win. it can dry out your face though so sometimes after i use the toner i rinse my face with water.

a salicylic acid peel would clear out those pores though and clear up your acne too.

DAY 73

Having a totaly crap day. Like UBER CRAB. My skin is WORSE today. Im thinking is this my skin breaking out now to the Skinoren? It has been over 2 and a half weeks of using it now...hmm?

I seem to have a lot of tiny tiny red/non inflamed spots all around my face right now, it was very VERRRRY cold out today and when I cam home from college and being out in the cold my hyperpigmentation marks are worse. Ugh I'm sick of this guys..I just want clear skin. Is it too much to ask for??????

I do feel really shitty actually. I had a long day and I am tired, very tired.

I feel like I just want to cry and honestly just give up, Im fed up. I don't get how, when you start a new topical or soap or whatever we have initial breakouts, and at first it seems good and initially looks better but them a week or so later BAM - acne explosion...wtf!

Hi Stacey! Thanks for the encouragement as always.

You should definitely go with your instincts about the Salicylic Peel. If you aren't comfortable, don't do it. Here was my experience: I looked fine the day of the peel and the next day but I felt my skin was super tight. Then for two days after that I was shedding like a snake. Super dry. But if you time it right (get your peel done on a Thursday) then most of the bad peeling happens on the weekend when you hopefully aren't working. Then it was another two or so days of dry skin, but I could still go out in public. I was able to moisturize the whole time and I could have even done a better job moisturizing to minimize the peeling. Still very happy with the results.

I am really happy to hear your skin is starting to clear up and your hair isn't falling out anymore. That's great news! It sounds like the higher dose of spiro is starting to make a difference. That might be why you have the extreme thirst. BUT, please give your doctor a call about the chest pains!! That's not something you should mess around with. Maybe you can do a search about spironolactone and chest pains. Have you had your potassium levels checked recently?

As for your curvier look, I know this a really sensitive subject for you. I noticed the same changes in my body and I believe they are from spiro too. I've been able to work off some of the weight by ramping up my exercise routine, but I do still have a curvier shape. Before you ditch the spiro altogether, maybe just ask yourself if you would regret not seeing it all the way through, at least 6 months. And if you do decide to go off of it, just be sure to ween off very slowly! That was my biggest mistake last time I quit spiro cold turkey. Worst. Idea. Ever.

In any case, we support you no matter what you choose to do!

By the way, I have heard really good things about Dianette. Wish we could get that in the States... it does still have a low dose of spiro so I wonder if that would have the same curvier affect to your body? I think it's only 25mg of spiro, so maybe it wouldn't. Not sure.

Stacey i have never posted on your log but i have been following along. I can sympathize with how you feel. Starting a new treatment and suffering through the side effects and NOT KNOWING IF it will help is mega frustrating. Cry if need to as it is therapeutic and try your best to not look in mirrors (its like a knife to the chest when we see the results). From what i've read, SPIRO can take anywhere from 3- 6 months to show consistent improvement so don't get deterred if your skin cycles from good to shitty, etc. Are you doing a topical?

It may help in the interim as Spiro does its thing.

I too am starting a new regimen tonight and i am scared of making things worse but i also know if i don't try, i won't know if i've finally found what works for me.

i did a few tca peels and they dried up my existing acne but didnt really clear out my pores too much. best thing i did was get a facial and then everyday in the morning i use thayers alcohol free toner with aloe and then in the evening i use proactiv toner with glycolic acid. that really helps to keep them clear along with my benzaclin too. glycolic acid helps with red marks too so its a win/win. it can dry out your face though so sometimes after i use the toner i rinse my face with water.

a salicylic acid peel would clear out those pores though and clear up your acne too.

Tracy how are you getting on? Not heard from you in a wee bit, hope all is well!

Stacey i have never posted on your log but i have been following along. I can sympathize with how you feel. Starting a new treatment and suffering through the side effects and NOT KNOWING IF it will help is mega frustrating. Cry if need to as it is therapeutic and try your best to not look in mirrors (its like a knife to the chest when we see the results). From what i've read, SPIRO can take anywhere from 3- 6 months to show consistent improvement so don't get deterred if your skin cycles from good to shitty, etc. Are you doing a topical?

It may help in the interim as Spiro does its thing.

I too am starting a new regimen tonight and i am scared of making things worse but i also know if i don't try, i won't know if i've finally found what works for me.

Hi Sasch thankyou for chiming in, I appreciate your words. I know, it is so mentally fristrating AND exhausting. At times I do really want to give up but I guess I do eventually reason with myself to not. It seems like I'm a yo-yo, if its not my skin I'm upset about it is my weight, and vice-versa. God, it sucks to be a women doesn't it!

Thanks, I do cry alot lol. And your right it certainly is theraputic. I actually am on a topical I started Skinoren about 3 weeks ago or so, it is a form of azelaic acid and to be honest I have heard good reviews about it with some mixedand some not so good. But it sounds like a good topical ,for example its anti-bacterial and can help with clogged pores by drawing them out and ALOS help with red marks!! So its a win-win. But I know I had a wee breakout last week due to the "IB" stage - inital breakout. So I am hopeing to stay on thes for about another few months anyway, well hopefully.

What kind of acne do you have? And what regime will you be starting on?

I wish you the best with your new regime and hey if you need ANY support whatsoever, myself and the other girls on this topic can totally try our best to help you feel a bit better. I think it helps though to know that almost everyone on this site is feeling the exact same.

Just wanted to show the imrpovement. I actualy took the last photo today after work and the previous two last week on the Thursday, I can see wlight improvement and was actually shocked at how it looks compared to what it did especially last year!

Stacey there is definitely OBVIOUS improvement! Especially around the chin area. Azeliac Acid is very gentle but i personally cannot attest to its effectiveness. 3 weeks is definitely not enough time to see if things are working out. 3 months is a more realistic timeline so hang in there.

I definitely could use all the support i can get. I just started The Regimen (from this website) yesterday as accutane while improving my acne did not stop it. This will probably be the last stop before i go back to a derm and ask about spiro w/o birth control. I also started a log so feel free to stop by:

Good Luck hun and keep us posted - you are definitely headed in the right direction

that is a great tutorial! I've basically heard that from the esthetician I saw, who was awesome EXCEPT for the fact she caused a small scar once I think it will go away completely over time but still........and that was when I asked her to extract very lightly. anyway, I do think in some instances it's better to pop the zits. i mean...it's sort of like minor surgery. if we didn't do surgery for people in real life, they would die. that being said, i feel like some kind of freaky addict cuz I seriously won't even pop one. I'm like all or nothing. I'm afraid if I relieve one...i might start getting encouraged and then it would be on to all the others. If it's an inflamed clog pore aka a pimple, and its totally ready like u said, i think its fine and even beneficial to pop. what I have noticed with non inflamed clogged pores (closed comodones, blackheads, whatever else) then I've found more success with leaving them IF I have something effective topically that draws them out. Whenever i would extract my own non inflamed clogged pores they would often fill back up in the same spot, but when they've purged on their own they haven't come back at all. this is still mostly a theory but i'm curious to see the end result of not having squeezed pores for so long.

my acne actually got worse BECAUSE of this I figured out. I use to basically maintain my mild/moderate acne for the last year by continually giving myself all over extractions. while "effective" it just sort of masked the problem. now my acne is worse but it feels like it's actually healing or something. idk. time shall tell. it's doing better today but, I have not been staring in the mirror or anything, quite the opposite. I actually decided to take a break from washing as well, cuz so many of my pores are unclogging right now that I don't even feel the need to keep encouraging my skin to purge, I just need these ones to finish purging. for example, I have this large (sorry...) blackhead on my nose. it's more just that i can tell it's deep and normally i would have extracted that shit in a heartbeat. but this time, the blacksoap drew it out (very quickly, thank god) and it's like a blackhead scab on the side of my nose. i let all my scabs fall away naturally (i think this is an even worse crime than popping a zit--picking a scab. big no no ) so we'll see what happens with this guy.

And while we're at it i'll just get more in detail. so that dumb zit on my forehead that I DIDNT pop (which probably would have gone away much better if I did) is like so nuts. its formed blood under it (!!?!??!?!) I've never really had a zit do this. i mean of course i've had zits bleed, after popping them tho. never have i had a whitehead stay there, form blood under it, and just like keep existing strangely. it sort of itches too so i hope that means its healing. the rest of my forehead continues to purge and there are spots that are flatter with less clogged pores, but it still looks bumpy to me and my eyebrows are kind of acting out right now.

omg carb cravings. sigh. i mean, i think everyone has these to one extent or another. carbs give us energy blah blah. but yeah, I love a really good sweet. ironically i don't like things overly sweet, so that just means i like expensive stuff or fruit based pastries like muffins. I can TOTALLY see how metformin would take away carb cravings. from my memory of googling it weeks ago, it like puts insulin to use directly into your cells or something crazy, cuz IR means your body is not able to use all the free insulin. i probably just heinously butchered that explanation but i'm too lazy to open another browser. I knew I had some level of IR previously, but birth control and getting my health together is helping that a lot. Did you ever get your glucose levels measured. mine were def below pre diabetic but still higher than I want. 5.1 was the number last time i got blood tested (don't have the units right here). I know you said your levels were really good and thats why the doctor said it was unecessary, so hopefully bc will help you in the long run too. Do you think you are craving carbs cuz you are thin and ur body wants to put on weight or is it prolly hormonal?

I hate popping spots, I really do. Sometimes when I do have a nasty pustule with a yelow/green head I will do until it bleeds, but then I put a hot compress on it for about 10 minutes and then leave it, after about half an hour I will put some tea tree oil which WILL sting. But then all that happens is a scab forms for about a week then falls off, but there is an inevitable left over red/pink mark. Sorry to hear an esthetician left a scar on your face Kelseylee. As long as it isn't too big

I love the mataphor of "minor surgery" towards skin picking. I just can't do it, I have always been told whilst growing up that it will make things worse so I just try my hardest to leave the alone. Surely they never had extraction type things over 1 hundred years ago when they got a spot, I think its best to let it do its thing and run its course.

I actually have noticed tiny black heads around my mouth like on my upper lip, it looks like tiny wee holes, but I know its balckheads and I have NO idea how to rid them!

I have actually had exactly what your talking about - the whole blood thing. Mines looked like a "double" spot where there was a dark blood underneath a perfectly fine pink0ish one. I just slathered TTO on it so many times and it did eventually go away. I also think itching CAN be a good sign too but when they itch all the time and when not putting a topical on, I think this could indicate some sort of infection/fungal thing.

How are you doing anyway? How is your skin just now?

I have been reading this online thing about hormones and the monthly cycle which we as females go through. It shows you week by week how your hormones come into play and what they do - I actually found it interesting. Its weird though because according to these articles Estrogen is the much "better" hormone which makes us feel mentally better and sexual. It makes us also more attractive too. Whereas Progesterone is the opposite, it contributes to PMS symptoms, makes us irritable and BLOATED and have low libido.

Its made me think that maybe estrogen is actually the most benefiacial hormone and that is why we do clear on Spiro since it DOES involve the dominance of estrogen eventually...I don't know. I will keep researching though.

Heeeelooo. Okay I'm gonna blab because this realy is the best place to go on about the minutia and strange details that most ppl would be weirded out by. Skin assessment: prettttttttty good. better. I just washed my face for the first time in I think 3 days. One downfall: i looked kind of pale and tired after doing that (i eat so many vegetables how is this possible ) but I guess maybe I just need some legit sun. My acne however is better. Since I stopped washing my face with african black soap, I have not had a single whitehead. not one in three days. I definitely think it was contributing to my whitehead problem. I also think I was overwashing. With this stuff, once every two days is prollly enough if its giving you whiteheads. I love the AFB because its purged all my pores, but I don't love that it's contributed to whiteheads. I was getting some before AFB, so can't blame it all on that, but I did notice in the spots where it was irritating my skin a little, like mouth and chin, I was getting more whiteheads than I would normally. Bless the skin gods cuz I don't get zits on my cheeks. Anyway, not a single whitehead in three days, and many purged pores have fallen away on my forehead. like little seeds have been falling out of my face guys. or pearls. ugh. I think my skin is purging on its own, and combined with black soap, it just went full blown. i've been continuing to purge in these last three days. blackheads are coming straight out of the skin. and there are other blackheads and clogged pores that are just starting to come up so i'm not out of the woods yet ye hear. prolly like 80 clogged pores left in total.

I did notice like, six blackheads (smallish) on my left cheek all in a cluster. fun times. not sure what thats about. Oh i've been reading You Can Heal Your Life, (it should be titled You can Heal Your Life and Freak Yourself the Fuck Out in the Process) lol. my mom thinks its all sort of "craziness", the whole we create our illness and each illness reflects an emotional block and issue. there is actually a word for this, I just read it in part of gwyneth paltrow's book (that I skimmed on amazon). Somatization. It means "the (unfortunate) art of turning unexpressed emotions into physical symptoms".

On saturday I turned to the back of you can heal your life and there is this index of literally every health problem I could think of and the emotional cause of the illness, and how to overcome it. from cellulite to leukemia. Blackheads symbolize "little bursts of anger" if my memory serves me right. lol lol. it's probably fairly accurate, even tho upon reading it I was like "omg wtf is with these mind body connections and these crazy hippies" but yah I've really been focusing on trying to let myself "feel" my emotions. Even the anger. The only anger I have is about past events, or when my mom harasses me ( ) which is luckily not that often. Really I think its past stuff that makes me more irritable in the present. So i've been "working through" old stuck emotions and situations that I didn't fully process at the time. I went through a series of really hard events all at the same time at the end of college, and then "acted out" a bunch after cuz I didn't process it really at all, and so now I struggle with both the hard events and the way I acted out after (mostly drinking/smoking pot even though it gave me horrible panic attacks/being weird and alienating towards my friends and family/AND having cripplingly low self esteem from aforementioned bad relationship).

The therapist I'm seeing says basically this is really hard to do on your own, process old emotions, and she wants me to wait till therapy. but i'm only there one hour a week--emotions come up all the OTHER hours of the week too . So I do my best to give myself therapy and just lie there and feel frustrated and angry at like an ex boyfriend and crazy ppl from college. I also get randomn bursts of anxiety throughout the day, and a lot of times I'll feel "scared". Even if i'm by myself at home during the day, I'll walk in the bathroom and the shower curtain will be shut, and I"ll be like, well what if there's a serial killer behind it? and then I"ll feel this heavy rush of anxiety until I look behind the curtain. I didn't used to feel like this ever. I think the last time I felt like this was as a six year old after accidentally watching parts of Chucky. That movie messed me up for years lol. is anyone else in their mid 20's and afraid of the dark?

The weird thing about acne that I've been feeling is that my acne "makes sense" to me. It's like as I'm processing/purging emotionally, my skin is purging. And when I get heightened emotions, like prolonged irritability and anxiety, i'll often get a breakout. If I was in a really happy peaceful phase of my life, I would be REALLY confused about having acne. but since i'm in this turbulent, intense, emotional healing part, it makes sense I guess. Not that I like it, just that...it seems to reflect how the mind body work together. and coincidentally when I was at peace and in control of my emotions (as much as one can be) I had no zits. And this might not be true for everyone at all so not trying to say if you have acne you aren't super happy or something. do you guys have any thoughts on this? ps I still think hormonal treatments taking f*** forever to work. Bc may just now be kicking into full gear.

Kelsey - Are you taking spiro? I totally agree about stress/mind acne connection and my dermatologist, therapist and primary care doc have all confirmed this. They told me stess can even have much worse effects than acne. I have always managed stess well and actually liked it so I don't think I ever really knew how to relax. I have never had acne before until 6 months ago and the past 6 months have also been the most depressive/stressful/sorrowful time of my life - worse than teenaged years. It all started with moving multiple times away from where I had lived forever and my family, losing my career due to moving, taking forever to find a job, some other family issues and then bam acne! Which fuels my anxiety like gasoline on a fire. And I have never had an anxiety disorder before. I working on healing emotionally and physically over the next several months and I just thank God for my husband every day.

wow that is the exact same as me:

"have never had acne before until 6 months ago and the past 6 months have also been the most depressive/stressful/sorrowful time of my life - worse than teenaged years" except extend that to like 9 months

the stress connection like...stresses me out. haha. it's something that is more holistic and challenging to tackle than even lifestyle stuff. Like i'm fullblown in healing my emotions right now. I cry over stuff that happened 5 years ago often. Or I feel really mad about it. But its the only way to heal, cuz I didn't heal from it at the time. "You can't heal what you can't feel" is a corny quote I read in a book my counselor gave me. seriously, therapy is really hard but I think its crucial for what i'm going thru right now. I actually have it tomorrow morning.

honestly, the best thing I can say is just go THROUGH it. like feel all the feelings. because then they will GO. if you run from them (cuz its really hard to go through something 5 or 10x harder than you've ever faced and its tempting to want to numb/dissasociate) it will do no good. Like I mentioned, I feel intense pangs of anxiety throughout the day (which I never previously experienced) and in the beginning I would mentally "run from them". I would avoid anything that triggered them or do anything to remedy them. Typically it involved mild ocd rituals to mitigate the feeling, but this is very a. boring and b. isolating. so anyway w/o getting too in depth i try my best to not give into whatever behavior will help me dissasociate from the feeling, and just feel the anxiety/pain in its whole. Then I noticed that I actually start to make progress, which is really awesome. The only way out is through I guess. But yeah if you feel those feelings, they will then be released. It hurts and it's not fun but it's actually the most natural and logical for me.

I was very lucky in most ways growing up, and staying cemented in academics and being a serious athlete always kept me "grounded" if potentially overly perfectionistic. my parents split up before I was born, but my mom is very loving and did literally everything for me. My dad and I were close but I only saw him on the weekends. He also struggles with anxiety and depression, and I think I resemble him in personality more than my mom. Him and I have had conflict tho, bad at times (fighting), which I know has affected me. In college I got into a relationship with an older guy (10 years older) who was actually my teacher. Well he was the teaching assistant (TA, working toward his PhD) for this amazing philosophy class I took my junior year. He pursued me but I had a momentous crush on him---too much of a crush, you know the unhealthy kind. Well I found out pretty quickly into dating that he was kind of a creep and an asshole, and a very negative and critical person. I pulled back in the beginning and he started treating me really badly. Then I floundered and felt I was losing him, so I abandoned all my intuition telling me it was a bad situation and sacrificed everything and anything to make the relationship work, as he continued to ignore and humiliate me verbally and socially. he would invite me over, only once or twice a week, and then make it sound like it was going to be just him there, but when I arrived several friends would be there and he would essentially act like he barely knew me or sort of belittle or very visibly ignore me in front of them. It was very cruel and I had never experienced anything that bad before. He was meaner than the cattiest girl in high school, really.

This probably reflects some "dad" issues with him being so much older and what not. He was such a jerk tho, criticizing what I ate, wore, my friends, my opinions, my family, constantly ditching me or giving me the silent treatment or even yelling at me and having angry panic attacks directed at me anytime I brought up anything having to do with feelings. It made me have very negative associations about even talking about feelings, which I'm trying to undo now. it was so painful. I had had a string of like 7 or 8 really nice, well adjusted boyfriends from loving families before him. I had broken up with all of them; I never felt challenged and I wanted to date a "really smart" guy. Maybe its my relationship karma for breaking previous hearts. my aunt and uncle told me I would get karma someday for it, and I guess in some f'd up way they were right.

I went from being very confident with guys to being so intensely insecure, even bounds beyond my weakest years as a teen. it was so ugly. I could barely even talk to people and i completely lost all the things that made me who I was. I stopped exercising, I stopped reading challenging intellectual material, I stopped hanging out with my friends cuz I got panic attacks around them, I stopped being close to family and acted out towards them. I started criticizing everyone and mostly myself, and developing all these close minded, bitchy opinions who weren't me at all, but just cuz I was trying to cover up all the wounds inside. Basically it was just like a major crash and I got ptsd, I still have sypmtoms of it now; sometimes I will shake and obviously panic attacks. The whole situation really made me re-evaluate the basis of self esteem and who I am. Apparently my self esteem wasn't as strong as I thought it was if all it took was one terrible ass hole boyfriend and a few crazy roommates to completely unhinge me and send me into an intense spiral of self hate and shame. So i'm working on that lol.

Oh yeah at the time that I started dating the ass hole, I was living with 9 girls who were pretty intense ppl although I had gotten along with everyone all year long and made sure to not get involved in all the gossip/vitriol that went on between some of them throughout the year. Well when I wanted to move out early they all flipped shit on me and basically attacked me emotionally. One of the weirdest girls, who sat in her room all day everyday with her boyfriend, smoked pot, did nothing else and I didn't even know prior to moving in together... told me I was a huge thoughtless bitch, super selfish, and really "hard to like". it all stung bad, but that last one stung like a bitch. I guess I just had never had anyone look me in the eyes and say I really fucking hate you. sure I'd had ppl be jerks, but this was a whole new level. This was right around the time my boyfriend (the asshole) told me I was a selfish bitch in a letter, after I had literally done nothing except try to stick up for myself when he treated me like shit. He was actually insane (he admitted to me that he was crazy and needed therapy), and I basically worshipped him, so this was a terrible combination. Maybe I WAS a little bit selfish before, but it kept me happy, healthy, and loving towards my friends and family. In our society, as a woman, you're either too insecure or too confident, too selfish or too selfless (giving too much). you can't fucking win. That girl was not even one of my friends, and I was very loyal and generous to my friends and family whereas I kept my distance from ppl like her who I perceived to be toxic. nevertheless, the words ate me alive inside and triggered all my own issues to erupt, anxiety, depression, and susceptibliity to deeply low self esteem. sometimes I think my biggest weakness is my minds ability and imagination. I have been told my whole life I am smart, I skipped a grade, took all ap classes, got straight a's, easily got into college...but when all this "intellect" turns on how much I hate myself, because someone didn't accept me or criticized me, I will obliterate everything I've ever done and sink my self esteem as low as it can go.

Writing all that was really therapeutic for me and I also think it's extremely weird that I wrote it at all but I'm posting this cuz it is really helping me heal. If you didn't even read it, no worries, we can move on and continue talking about super fun zits.

hey misssac17, i am doing pretty good i am still on the spiro (5 months on friday) at 100mg and have dropped down the keflex to 500mg a day. the plan is to slowly wean off of the keflex and hope the spiro has kicked in by now. i also use hylunia gentle cleanser and then thayers non alcohol toner for the morning and proactiv toner for the evening with glycolic acid to keep my pores clear. i also use benzaclin twice a day and its all been working pretty well. my red marks are fading nicely but i have some bad scarring on my chin so just trying to figure out when or if i am going to get laser done on it.

how is your skin doing?

Hey Lifeinfaith - I read your whole story and feel for what you're going through. Life events are hard enough sometimes and to have skin problems on top of it feels like a whilrwind of chaos. I'm glad you have a supportive husband and a family that loves you even if they are not always close by. It is so interesting about the stress causing acne. I suppose they really can be related. I think it makes it hard that you feel isolated too - I will tell you that staying busy and having distractions really does help. I would try getting outside where you are and taking, long peaceful walks. Is it pretty where you are? Sounds like it must be. Anyway, this is just to calm down becuase you need a breather. I believe the meds will work for you. Also, since acne is a relatively new thing for you that means you don't have scarring. I used to believe like you that God had a plan and my trials would lead me to the best person I was supposed to be. But when I started getting acne scarring that is when I had trouble continuing to believe everything happens for a reason. It is a life sentence more or less and I have spent the last year devastated. Thank goodness for my husband who is just endlessly loving and carefree about whatever my skin is going through. I really struggle on a daily basis though. So I understand what you're going through. I used to be excited about life and, like you, I was in really good shape and loved running and working out. Now I hardly do those things and feel like a shell of myself. It's just not fair is it? Anyway, just wanted to tell you I relate! Hugs!

Hi Tracy521 - When do you feel like the Spiro started working for you/making your face less oily? My derm tells me to give it 6 weeks to see a difference and then it keeps getting better. I mostly have lots of closed comedones and a few active pimples that come up.

Hello! I am not quite sure what is really working for me right now because I started the keflex about 8 weeks into taking spiro because my face was so bad. I literally was at the dermatologist every single week getting cortisone shots. I had about 22 total for the bad cystic ones so at that point I asked for the keflex and immediately stopped getting new cysts. I also was getting nodules too it was awful. I saw an aesthetician in that time and she told me to stop exfoliating my face so much and to use a witch hazel toner after i wash and that really helped to calm down my skin a lot. Also I was amazed at the amount of makeup and dead skin that would be on the cotton ball after I washed its no wonder I was breaking out so bad. I cant use retinoids because they make my face burn and peel so that is why I use that proactiv toner at night the glycolic acid really helps to keep the pores clear. The oil production in my face has not changed one bit I still have to blot my face a lot. I just really makes sure to try and not touch it at all and I try not to pick my face at all anymore either. I just leave it alone as much as I can and I wear bare minerals makeup because it doesnt break me out.

I am just really hoping everything is ok when I stop taking the keflex it does kind of scare me but then again my skin is always clearer in the summer so maybe it will be ok. One more thing I always try to workout at least 5-6 days a week I think it helps to sweat out those toxins. Just try to hang in there with spiro I believe it will work it just takes a long time. My derm said 3 months at the minimum but that it could take up to 6 months.

Hi Michi,

I'm sorry to hear that. Have you had acne for a really long time? It's weird that some people scar and others don't. I should be more grateful for what I do have. I try to tell myself that it's not cancer or like I am paralyzed or lacking limbs or something. Keep hope in the new treatments there are for acne scarring and the fact that you have a loving husband no matter what imperfections you have.

Hey Lifeinfaith - I read your whole story and feel for what you're going through. Life events are hard enough sometimes and to have skin problems on top of it feels like a whilrwind of chaos. I'm glad you have a supportive husband and a family that loves you even if they are not always close by. It is so interesting about the stress causing acne. I suppose they really can be related. I think it makes it hard that you feel isolated too - I will tell you that staying busy and having distractions really does help. I would try getting outside where you are and taking, long peaceful walks. Is it pretty where you are? Sounds like it must be. Anyway, this is just to calm down becuase you need a breather. I believe the meds will work for you. Also, since acne is a relatively new thing for you that means you don't have scarring. I used to believe like you that God had a plan and my trials would lead me to the best person I was supposed to be. But when I started getting acne scarring that is when I had trouble continuing to believe everything happens for a reason. It is a life sentence more or less and I have spent the last year devastated. Thank goodness for my husband who is just endlessly loving and carefree about whatever my skin is going through. I really struggle on a daily basis though. So I understand what you're going through. I used to be excited about life and, like you, I was in really good shape and loved running and working out. Now I hardly do those things and feel like a shell of myself. It's just not fair is it? Anyway, just wanted to tell you I relate! Hugs!

Hi guys, I just read this on tumblr and wanted to share. -warning- strong language used

• Woman: I'm smart
• Patriarchy: Well you're probably ugly then
• Woman: I'm creative
• Patriarchy: You mean unattractive right?
• Woman: I have all these incredible accomplishments
• Patriarchy: Yeah but look how ugly you looked doing them
• Woman: I have value
• Patriarchy: Not if you're ugly lol
• Woman: I'm conventionally-attractive & posted selfies on my blog
• Patriarchy: I'm so sick of these empty-headed chicks only caring about their looks. Just because you are attractive and get attention from men doesn't mean you are special or deserve respect. Why don't you read a book or do something productive with your life you dumb slut

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Yes so it's tough to know what had the most impact of if it was both combined. I think that's so interesting that Yaz broke you out because it's a derivative of Spiro and Spiro works for you. As much as we try to figure this stuff out it's all a mystery isn't it? Are you planning on getting your hormones rechecked at any time? I just got mine redone this morning again - even though I did it 3 weeks ago the Endo wanted a second look before he refers me for an MRI (for insurance purposes and just to make sure). I'll find out my results in 2 weeks. Oh and the reason for my MRI is because it boggles his mind how my estrogen can be so low yet my FSH is also low - the pituitary gland in our brain sends a signal to raise FSH to try to in turn raise low estrogen and that is not happening for me. What was your FSH?

Hi Michi,

I wasn't planning on getting my hormone levels rechecked unless my endo requests that I do. My endo is the one who said he doesn't think I have PCOS and has no idea what's wrong with me...so...probably going to look for a new endo at some point anyway.

This is all such a big mystery. I was pretty caught up in getting a diagnosis and actually felt really relieved to find out I had PCOS, and then getting undiagnosed was a bit of a blow. But, I'm relaxing a little on figuring it all out because the medicine I'm on seems to be helping. I hope your MRI goes well! It would be nice to figure all of this out, right?

My FSH was at 7.0. I don't think that's low, but the FSH level is confusing to me. According to my lab, my level indicated I'm either follicular, midcycle, or luteal. I don't think it means much of anything because at that point I wasn't menstruating or ovulating at all. What was your level if you don't mind me asking?

Sierra

My FSH was 6.7, so about the same as yours. So if it is prior to ovulation, which it is for me since I don't ovulate, then this is normal. However since my estrogen is so low FSH should be rising in an attempt to make my estrogen, or egg reserve, rise. This is controlled by the pituitary gland and since this is not happening there may be something wrong with the pituitary. So something interesting I was reading is that the birth control pill works to prevent ovulation by suppressing the pituitary gland. I know doctors say the pill doesn't affect you after you get off of it, but I was on it for 12 years. Doesn't it make sense that in 12 years of suppressing the pituitary gland, this might have an effect on its normal functioning? Were you on the pill for a long time also? What was your progesterone? Mine is 0.4, just indicative of not ovulating.

I had a dermasweep done by an aesthetician at my derms office yesterday. This is basically a microderm plus putting salicylic acid on my skin after. Then she steamed my face and did a few extractions. I think the microderm was fine, my face felt smoother (in the areas I dont have clogged pores) after and there was no redness or down time like a chemical peel sometimes. HoweverI dont really feel like it did a whole lot for the clogged pores. AND she kind of sucked at doing extractions. She only did like a handful of them, she would lance each and then use the comodo extractornothing really got swollen or irritatedbut later that evening when I was looking at the spots she extracted they all seemed to still look like clogged pores and so I squeezed them all and got stuff out of each and every one, one she had especially worked on for a while, squeezed a ton of stuff out when I barely touched it.so I am like, what gives, I paid her a ton of money to do unsuccessful extractions that I had to come home and finish myself (which I absolutely hate and it sends me into an anxiety attack most of the time L). The only real improvement I see on my clogged pores are that a few of them maybe look slightly slightly closer to the surface..and this morning I had a couple of tiny white heads that came off in the shower. Does anyone have experiences with microderm or know if there will be more delayed effects in a few days? Also, how do you guys find an aesthetician that does good extractions?? I feel like I cant find any. I had one done 4 months ago when I had a sal peel done at a medical spa and basically the exact same thing happened...she failed to extract anything. I feel like extractions are more successful without using the little extraction tool. She also made the comment when she was doing them that all your clogged pores are under the skin instead of right at the surface that come off easily. If they came off easily I think I would have taken care of them myself and not be going crazy overalso isnt that one of the definitions of being a closed comodone, being under the skin?

Skindeepstory I know you said you had to get facials to get rid of a lot of you clogged pores. Did you have to ask them to do them a certain way or were yours all already whiteheads and not really under the skin?

hey lifeinfaith,

I know what you're talking about with extractions. luckily I always seemed to find ppl that were good at them, but my problem would be that a few weeks later the same spots would refill. when I was younger, and barely had acne, this would'nt happen and a facial would make me feel great for a while, but part of this was how good my skin already was. anyway, i really think its up to the individual and not the tools they use etc. The lady I saw who was the best at it mostly only used her hands, and she was really fast. she unclogged my pores a lot like I would myself, with sort of a delicate but firm grasp and just pushing at angles on the skin, with tissue, to get all the stuff out. mine might be closer to the surface however which DEFINITELY makes it easier. anything stuck below the surface she would just leave because it was too dangerous. or use the little tool which worked well most of the time. it did make me nervous towards the end though-making a little incision and then squeezing...back to the minor surgery analogy. actually one of the best extracters I ever had was when I got my eyebrows waxed at a really fancy hair salon. the lady was like oooh you have a milia right there can I get it for you. So she did and I barely felt a single thing she was so gentle and I think she got a few more.

So my advice is don't necessarily go to a "medical" spa. I would find a really high end salon. I don't find that those salons are even more expensive necessarily, just that their ppl know what they're doing. Aveda salons are generally quite good, and when you call, ask for the person that does the best/knows the most about extractions. plain and simple. just be like, I want the best facialist and extractor you have. after I had a few facials with the lady who was really good, the desk girls were like "oh yeah shes definitely the best". I also found the best and most expensive hair salons (gary manuel) in the pacific northwest to have really good estheticians. Hence the lady that waxed my eyebrows. hope that helps. In some ways estheticians can vary in skill as much as a hair stylist or dermatologist, so don't go back to one who wasn't able to extract your pores as easily as YOU did at home, that's crazy. The micro and SA probably helped loosen up your pores, but still she should have been able to get most that gunk out.

the last two times I got facials I had red spots all over my face and my skin just looked attacked, and that kind of freaked me out. I still have two more facials at an aveda salon in seattle that I will use w/o extractions. are you in the boulder, co area?

Hi Everyone! Just been reading through all 9 pages of this and decided to join this website so I could join in the chat!!

I have been on 50mg of spironolactone for a week now. It was an absolute nightmare trying to get it prescribed in England, it seems here its rarely used for acne, and i had to go to the dermatologist with an arm load of research id gathered and a very persuasive pre-planned speech. She eventually agreed to let me try it but wanted me to have blood tests to check my potassium levels and hormones.

So, a bit of background, iv had acne since i was 11, im now 26. Iv done lots of antibiotics, dianette, yasmin, accutane 3 times, n litle laser treatment, duac, differin, epiduo, dalacin-t, benzoyl peroxide, paula's choice salicylic acid, dairy free diet, gluten free diet, sugar free diet, wild oregano oil. Basically, iv done everything! I had success with accutane but only whilst I was on it, a few months after id come off it my skin would break out again. I also had some success with dianette but my sister got a blood clot from the contraceptive pill and iv now been told i'm never allowed it again as i may have a genetic pre-disposition towards blood clots.

So the last few years iv been trying to cope by gently cleansing and using a combination of epiduo and duac, but things really got out of control recently. I had read a lot about spiro and had asked the doctor about it a few years back but she looked at me like i was an idiot and said it wasn't an acne drug. So anyway, this time i was determined to be taken seriously, and by some miracle i actually got prescribed it!

So right, its been a week at 50mg and so far i havn't really noticed anything. Had a few headaches but nothing major.

Just wanna thanks all you girls for all your information on here, it's been great for me to read as i'm just starting out on it! Really praying this tablet will be my holy grail!!!!! Il keep you updated!

Abby xxx

Hey Kelseylee -

Thanks for all the advice! I have always gone to Aveda Salons for hair cuts and loved them, it never occurred to me to use them for aestetician services. I will have to try calling them up and asking for the best extractor... I didn't really know you could do that. I wonder if I could ask what technique they use -hands v tool.

No, I am in CO Springs. But if you know of any places to recommend in the Denver area I would deffinitely make the drive.

Are you on any type of retinoid? I find that when I have done my own extractions while using retinoids it leaves terrible red marks and tears my skin. I have been off retin a micro for over a week now and the extractions I have done on myself have not left nearly the marks they usually make.

hey lifeinfaith,

I know what you're talking about with extractions. luckily I always seemed to find ppl that were good at them, but my problem would be that a few weeks later the same spots would refill. when I was younger, and barely had acne, this would'nt happen and a facial would make me feel great for a while, but part of this was how good my skin already was. anyway, i really think its up to the individual and not the tools they use etc. The lady I saw who was the best at it mostly only used her hands, and she was really fast. she unclogged my pores a lot like I would myself, with sort of a delicate but firm grasp and just pushing at angles on the skin, with tissue, to get all the stuff out. mine might be closer to the surface however which DEFINITELY makes it easier. anything stuck below the surface she would just leave because it was too dangerous. or use the little tool which worked well most of the time. it did make me nervous towards the end though-making a little incision and then squeezing...back to the minor surgery analogy. actually one of the best extracters I ever had was when I got my eyebrows waxed at a really fancy hair salon. the lady was like oooh you have a milia right there can I get it for you. So she did and I barely felt a single thing she was so gentle and I think she got a few more.

So my advice is don't necessarily go to a "medical" spa. I would find a really high end salon. I don't find that those salons are even more expensive necessarily, just that their ppl know what they're doing. Aveda salons are generally quite good, and when you call, ask for the person that does the best/knows the most about extractions. plain and simple. just be like, I want the best facialist and extractor you have. after I had a few facials with the lady who was really good, the desk girls were like "oh yeah shes definitely the best". I also found the best and most expensive hair salons (gary manuel) in the pacific northwest to have really good estheticians. Hence the lady that waxed my eyebrows. hope that helps. In some ways estheticians can vary in skill as much as a hair stylist or dermatologist, so don't go back to one who wasn't able to extract your pores as easily as YOU did at home, that's crazy. The micro and SA probably helped loosen up your pores, but still she should have been able to get most that gunk out.

the last two times I got facials I had red spots all over my face and my skin just looked attacked, and that kind of freaked me out. I still have two more facials at an aveda salon in seattle that I will use w/o extractions. are you in the boulder, co area?