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I have another theory.
The couple years prior to taking Accutane, I I had very little sun exposure (very very little), and later on was shown to have low vitamin D. Also, I drank a lot of milk that was fortified with large amounts of Vitamin A and a small amount of vitamin D. It's been shown that a very small amount of Vitamin A disturbs vitamin D utilization (or was it absorption)? Anyways, I'm pretty sure I was consuming too much vitamin A relative to vitamin D, which I think contributed to me having a bad reaction to Accutane.
My theory is that Accutane makes us less capable of utilizing stored vitamin A. So we can build up vitamin A, but never use it, leading to large amounts in our body. I remember a study where Accutane was showed to reduce the conversion of vitamin A to it's activated form, and the same for vitaming D. This lead to higher levels of the unnactivated metabolites, and less of the activated.So it definately has interfered with our utilization of these nutrients.
Similarly, Accutane effects bile production, which is the major pathway by which fat soluble vitamins (and their metabolites like retinoic acid) are excreted. So all in all, Accutane reduces our body's ability to properly utilize and transport these vitamins.
Supporting our livers is probably a good thing, but more specifically I think we should focus on things that helps our bodies create mucus, cholesterol, bile, etc (all of these are linked). To name a few things that would help: Taurine, Choline, milk thistle betain, glutathione. On top of that, a diet full of healthy fats to support bile excretion.
And in the off chance that Accutane or its metabolites are still in large amounts in our bodies, taking Calcium D-glucarate increases glucuronidation, which is the mechanism by which Accutane is excreted. Glucuronic acid binds to Isotretinoin (glucuronidation) and then is excreted through bile and urine.
On 11/10/2012 at 9:53 PM, IndigoRush said:I'm back.
I won't be posting on here anymore (at least not often).
See my new video, which should be up soon on [Removed].
Your question will be answered there.
Hey, how come you are leaving? Not that I don't blame you for moving on...
Hey,
short update -
I'm still feeling like crap more often than not, but it seems that cocoa (like.. half a cup of the pure powder at least) helped with digestion and mood. But not to the point that I felt awesome or anything, just made it somewhat better. It also didn't help consistently, but maybe I just didn't drink enough. It's quite a lot of the stuff 
. Why did it help - maybe the fiber, maybe the flavonoids, maybe the magnesium. There was one day when I felt awesome but I'm unsure why. I ate the same stuff (of the day before I felt awesome) on another day and didn't feel a thing, kinda disappointing.
Eating red bell peppers helps my digestion every time. Supplemental Vitamin C has no effect (at least not a few grams)
The dryness is strongest a few hours after eating milkchocolate. Or when not eating for a long time.
I feel anxious/shaky if I don't have a protein/fat meal for a long time.
I feel quite good after a starchy meal (potatoes) - That's what I'll do now, implement more starches
Supplemental Magnesium had no effect at max. 400mg - I have ordered some and will take more at once
Ordered Hyaluronic Acid, Calcium D-Glucarate and Digestive Enzymes.
On 11/10/2012 at 9:53 PM, IndigoRush said:I'm back.
I won't be posting on here anymore (at least not often).
See my new video, which should be up soon on [Removed].
Your question will be answered there.
I'll watch all your videos but I still dont think its good to stop visiting here often. Facing all this messed up crap that accutane did to our bodies gives us a reality check rather than fool yourself that you are ok, it will catch up to you and next time you get a reality check it will be horrible. We just have to accept it that accutane destroyed our bodies, and who knows if we keep looking for answers maybe there is a fix out there.
I'm not ignoring the fact this drug damaged my body.
However, after a year or so of talking in this forum, it became an obsession,
I made a decision that I no longer wanted my life story to be 'this'.
I'm also not giving up.
I'm going to eat very well, use my juicer (and likely make videos with it).
The last couple of days I've been putting loads of effort into my music and it's helping me reach the ultimate goal: Happiness.
This comes from many things, and in this case it's down to achievement.
[Edited link out] < Go check out some of my stuff [Edited image out]
I could carry on trying to be a scientist and play about with supplements, but I'm terribly bored of all this.
Research studies on Accutane - I'll likely never read another one.
I believe the answer is the same.
We should treat our bodies as best we can - with food, mainly.
Detoxing with liver supplements and all that is useless.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't like looking at my room anymore with all those supplements sat there.
It looks stupid.
On another note, I seem to be feeling better all round (including sex drive and ability to enjoy sex, etc).
Could be the adrenal/thyroid supplements, could be the green juices, or overall shifting my focus from all this crap.
I get messages off people all the time on YouTube... People feeling sorry for themselves and complaining about how bad their lives are because of this drug.
I just don't feel like that same person anymore.
I still get down and feel shit (anxious, depressed, afraid) but at the end of the day... EVERYONE has had shit happen to them and we could be so much worse off.
This experience has taught me a lot and I feel proud of who I am.
I have to go to college now, but that's the jist of what I wanted to say.
I recommend you all make life changes and decide to be happy any way possible.
The money I don't waste on more pills (supplements) will be spent on LIVING.
Stef
On 11/13/2012 at 9:29 PM, IndigoRush said:I'm not ignoring the fact this drug damaged my body.
However, after a year or so of talking in this forum, it became an obsession,
I made a decision that I no longer wanted my life story to be 'this'.
I'm also not giving up.
I'm going to eat very well, use my juicer (and likely make videos with it).
The last couple of days I've been putting loads of effort into my music and it's helping me reach the ultimate goal: Happiness.
This comes from many things, and in this case it's down to achievement.
[Edited link out]< Go check out some of my stuff [Edited image out]
I could carry on trying to be a scientist and play about with supplements, but I'm terribly bored of all this.
Research studies on Accutane - I'll likely never read another one.
I believe the answer is the same.
We should treat our bodies as best we can - with food, mainly.
Detoxing with liver supplements and all that is useless.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't like looking at my room anymore with all those supplements sat there.
It looks stupid.
On another note, I seem to be feeling better all round (including sex drive and ability to enjoy sex, etc).
Could be the adrenal/thyroid supplements, could be the green juices, or overall shifting my focus from all this crap.
I get messages off people all the time on YouTube... People feeling sorry for themselves and complaining about how bad their lives are because of this drug.
I just don't feel like that same person anymore.
I still get down and feel shit (anxious, depressed, afraid) but at the end of the day... EVERYONE has had shit happen to them and we could be so much worse off.
This experience has taught me a lot and I feel proud of who I am.
I have to go to college now, but that's the jist of what I wanted to say.
I recommend you all make life changes and decide to be happy any way possible.
The money I don't waste on more pills (supplements) will be spent on LIVING.
Stef
Very well said Indigo! Isn't your documentary coming out on the BBC this month? Has it already as I have that channel here in the U.S. and would like to watch it. - Jen
On 11/14/2012 at 1:54 AM, oli girl said:On 11/13/2012 at 9:29 PM, IndigoRush said:I'm not ignoring the fact this drug damaged my body.
However, after a year or so of talking in this forum, it became an obsession,
I made a decision that I no longer wanted my life story to be 'this'.
I'm also not giving up.
I'm going to eat very well, use my juicer (and likely make videos with it).
The last couple of days I've been putting loads of effort into my music and it's helping me reach the ultimate goal: Happiness.
This comes from many things, and in this case it's down to achievement.
[Edited link out] < Go check out some of my stuff [Edited image out]
I could carry on trying to be a scientist and play about with supplements, but I'm terribly bored of all this.
Research studies on Accutane - I'll likely never read another one.
I believe the answer is the same.
We should treat our bodies as best we can - with food, mainly.
Detoxing with liver supplements and all that is useless.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't like looking at my room anymore with all those supplements sat there.
It looks stupid.
On another note, I seem to be feeling better all round (including sex drive and ability to enjoy sex, etc).
Could be the adrenal/thyroid supplements, could be the green juices, or overall shifting my focus from all this crap.
I get messages off people all the time on YouTube... People feeling sorry for themselves and complaining about how bad their lives are because of this drug.
I just don't feel like that same person anymore.
I still get down and feel shit (anxious, depressed, afraid) but at the end of the day... EVERYONE has had shit happen to them and we could be so much worse off.
This experience has taught me a lot and I feel proud of who I am.
I have to go to college now, but that's the jist of what I wanted to say.
I recommend you all make life changes and decide to be happy any way possible.
The money I don't waste on more pills (supplements) will be spent on LIVING.
Stef
Very well said Indigo! Isn't your documentary coming out on the BBC this month? Has it already as I have that channel here in the U.S. and would like to watch it. - Jen
Thanks.
I think empowerment is important.
I'll let you know as I'll find out this week.
It will be in the next couple of weeks
An update on UDCA: energy still improved, digestion improved, recovery time from stressful events (mainly exercise) improved. Right now I take it again with a artichoke extract, which supports the bladder as well.
This stuff works gradually. If you suspect anything to be wrong with your liver and or gallbladder give it a shot. UDCA is probably the most potent supplement I have tried in a long long time and I don't want to miss it. I am going to take it for at least four months according to protocol thereafter I may get off.
-
Good for you Indigo. I have to let you in on a secret, the more you dwell on these "accutane victim" places on the internet, the worse you feel. I felt worse browsing for relief from my side-effects. I find many people get into a victim-mentality and let it consume their life, leading to depression. In fact, your posts annoyed me for a while. Because it felt like you were letting this consume your life. And it was making me feel down just reading your post. I'm glad you're going to take a break from the "accutane victim" mentality. Doing so helped me a lot.
I still search for ways to improve myself, but I'm quick to skip over the posts that are plain whiny, and unproductive, and that will only make me feel worse. I've come to the realization that my side-effect are not the end of the world. I have some joint pain, a bit of dryness, and I can't consume vitamin A in large amounts, but other than that I'm fine. Not to mention I'm seeing improvements with everything I do: diet, exercise, getting adequate vitamin d, healthy gut flora... And now I'm looking at the possiblity of finding why some of us are sensitive to vitamin A after Accutane.
Take a break, like I did. Try and avoid the victim mentality, try and stop thinking of your body as being "damaged. Just live.
I have never felt like a helpless victim from Accutane or from reading Accutane forums. Self-efficacy is the most important component to combating depression. I always believed that I could impact the disease, and put a lot of *organized* effort into doing so.
The organized bit is important, because you will have to sustain effort over a long time period. And if you are not organized, you will quickly start going in circles and lose morale.
I have been trying two things recently with excellent (preliminary) results:
1. The Dual Core 1 polyphasic sleep schedule: http://www.polyphasicsociety.com/polyphasic-sleep/overviews/dual-core/
2. Thyroid medication: Thyroid Energy by Now Foods 90 Vegetarian Capsules and [Edited link out]
The thyroid meds result in a huge energy and focus boost, but should only be taken in the morning to prevent insomnia.
The polyphasic sleep cuts way down on brain fog and circadian lulls. You can flex it up to sleeping 16 hours in 4 down / 2 up cycles if sick. Check the science.
I'm pretty happy with where this is going. With the thyroid stuff, I felt like my old self. We'll see if it sticks.
For reference, I was diagnosed as clinically hypothyroid and put on Synthroid, which is often pretty ineffective.
BIG discovery: Supplementing with Taurine causes me to feel the axact way I did on Accutane: dry lips/skin, shedding hair, dry eyes, thirsty, joint pain. I swear, this is weird. There is a strange interaction between Taurine and vitamin A/retinoic acid. I was taking it because I thought it would be protective. It was shown to protect against much of the damages of hypervitaminosis A. But it turns out it did the opposite, and now I feel like I'm on Accutane.
I'm not sure what this means, but it's extremely fascinating to me.
On 11/13/2012 at 4:30 AM, bamdaze said:Hey,
short update -
I'm still feeling like crap more often than not, but it seems that cocoa (like.. half a cup of the pure powder at least) helped with digestion and mood. But not to the point that I felt awesome or anything, just made it somewhat better. It also didn't help consistently, but maybe I just didn't drink enough. It's quite a lot of the stuff [Edited image out]. Why did it help - maybe the fiber, maybe the flavonoids, maybe the magnesium. There was one day when I felt awesome but I'm unsure why. I ate the same stuff (of the day before I felt awesome) on another day and didn't feel a thing, kinda disappointing.
Eating red bell peppers helps my digestion every time. Supplemental Vitamin C has no effect (at least not a few grams)
The dryness is strongest a few hours after eating milkchocolate. Or when not eating for a long time.
I feel anxious/shaky if I don't have a protein/fat meal for a long time.
I feel quite good after a starchy meal (potatoes) - That's what I'll do now, implement more starches
Supplemental Magnesium had no effect at max. 400mg - I have ordered some and will take more at once
Ordered Hyaluronic Acid, Calcium D-Glucarate and Digestive Enzymes.
On 11/14/2012 at 10:52 PM, JosephBuchignani said:I have never felt like a helpless victim from Accutane or from reading Accutane forums. Self-efficacy is the most important component to combating depression. I always believed that I could impact the disease, and put a lot of *organized* effort into doing so.
The organized bit is important, because you will have to sustain effort over a long time period. And if you are not organized, you will quickly start going in circles and lose morale.
I have been trying two things recently with excellent (preliminary) results:
1. The Dual Core 1 polyphasic sleep schedule: http://www.polyphasi...iews/dual-core/
2. Thyroid medication: Thyroid Energy by Now Foods 90 Vegetarian Capsules and [Edited link out]
The thyroid meds result in a huge energy and focus boost, but should only be taken in the morning to prevent insomnia.
The polyphasic sleep cuts way down on brain fog and circadian lulls. You can flex it up to sleeping 16 hours in 4 down / 2 up cycles if sick. Check the science.
I'm pretty happy with where this is going. With the thyroid stuff, I felt like my old self. We'll see if it sticks.
For reference, I was diagnosed as clinically hypothyroid and put on Synthroid, which is often pretty ineffective.
Synthetic thyroid medications are counterproductive. You'll do a lot better on your thyroid supplements. Accutane is known to damage the thyroid.
Taking kelp and selenium supplements helped me a lot with energy.
On 11/13/2012 at 4:30 AM, bamdaze said:Ordered Hyaluronic Acid, Calcium D-Glucarate and Digestive Enzymes.
Hyaluronic acid helped me a lot with joint pain, and I take digestive enzymes from time to time, they also help.
I'm glad you're trying the Calcium G-Glucarate. Please tell us how it goes.
BIG discovery: Supplementing with Taurine causes me to feel the axact way I did on Accutane: dry lips/skin, shedding hair, dry eyes, thirsty, joint pain. I swear, this is weird. There is a strange interaction between Taurine and vitamin A/retinoic acid. I was taking it because I thought it would be protective. It was shown to protect against much of the damages of hypervitaminosis A. But it turns out it did the opposite, and now I feel like I'm on Accutane.
I'm not sure what this means, but it's extremely fascinating to me.
Perhaps more pointing towards Vit A deficiency?
I have tried Taurine for a brief period and it gave me incredibly dry skin, from when I've read from those who use it for Acne though, this can be quite normal.
BIG discovery: Supplementing with Taurine causes me to feel the axact way I did on Accutane: dry lips/skin, shedding hair, dry eyes, thirsty, joint pain. I swear, this is weird. There is a strange interaction between Taurine and vitamin A/retinoic acid. I was taking it because I thought it would be protective. It was shown to protect against much of the damages of hypervitaminosis A. But it turns out it did the opposite, and now I feel like I'm on Accutane.
I'm not sure what this means, but it's extremely fascinating to me.
Perhaps more pointing towards Vit A deficiency?
I have tried Taurine for a brief period and it gave me incredibly dry skin, from when I've read from those who use it for Acne though, this can be quite normal.
The question is why.
Why do you think this points toward deficiency? So it's common for people who have taken Accutane to experience dy skin on Taurine? Hmm.
I asume I was already overloaded with vitamin A prior to taking Accutane. I was comsuming a lot of milk that was heavily fortified with vitamin A, and I wasn't getting much vitamin D to balance it out. My theory is that Taurine inreased my bile flow (which it is known to do), thus releasing a lot of vitamin A (or maybe residual Accutane?) into my intestines, where it was reabsorbed and cause the side-effects.
Whoops, I screwed up on my digestive enzyme recommendation. It doesn't have bile salts and it doesn't have enteric coating.
The ideal is a digestive enzyme with stomach acid, all the enzymes, and enteric coating on the enzymes and bile that belong in the intestines, not the stomach.
One of the few that meets this description is Now Foods Super Enzymes.
I do not know if Ox Bile and UDCA are interchangeable, but they are both animal bile. If you cannot get UDCA, try Ox Bile. I will be getting it in the form of Cholacol. (Not enteric coated)
You should only be interested in the above two products if you have trouble digesting fat. That's what bile does.
I believe the remaining minor discomfort and severe dietary restriction I experience is because the digestive enzyme I ordered didn't have bile in it.
I will test both of the above products and report back.
Do you take taurine combined with Vitamin B6, as one is supposed to? How much taurine do you take daily 1000mg or more? When do you take it?
I've never heard of having to take Vitamin B6... Got any sources?
I was taking 2 or 3 1000mg capsules daily, at random times usually with meals, and once it was the first thing in the morning. Immediately started getting dry skin and eyes, my nose was also dry leading to a nosebleed, and I generally felt more tired and could sleep a lot more.
Felt exactly like when I was on Accutane. I also feel this way when I consume vitamin A from eggs, dairy, etc. I'm still trying to figure out why Taurine makes me feel like this...
I seem to react very positively to B6, a data point for your theory.
I think I have a unified theory for my particular problem.
Accutane causes changes to pituitary and hypothyroid, which leads to sluggish gall bladder.
Sluggish gall bladder fails to dump bile to neutralize stomach acid in intestines, leading to pain and inability to digest fat.
I attempt to treat with round the clock UDCA and digestive enzymes at meals, with partial success, because:
1. Wasn't loading UDCA at solid meals to simulate gall bladder bile dump
2. Wasn't using enteric coated bile, so bile gets stopped by stomach acid
3. Digestive enzymes didn't have bile
I seem to be doing better already after I started loading UDCA with meals.
Just google "taurine b6". You will find what you are looking for. Your body may be lacking things beyond b6 in order to metabolize taurine.
The only link I could find between the two is that vitamin B6 is needed to create Taurine from cystene. I couldn't find any link showing vitamin B6 is needed after the Taurine is already created though (i.e. for utilization of taurine).
I seem to react very positively to B6, a data point for your theory.
I think I have a unified theory for my particular problem.
Accutane causes changes to pituitary and hypothyroid, which leads to sluggish gall bladder.
Sluggish gall bladder fails to dump bile to neutralize stomach acid in intestines, leading to pain and inability to digest fat.
I attempt to treat with round the clock UDCA and digestive enzymes at meals, with partial success, because:
1. Wasn't loading UDCA at solid meals to simulate gall bladder bile dump
2. Wasn't using enteric coated bile, so bile gets stopped by stomach acid
3. Digestive enzymes didn't have bile
I seem to be doing better already after I started loading UDCA with meals.
I have been taking NOW Super Enzymes, and it definately helps with digestion. I don't understand how it would increase my own body's bile production though. Isn't it supplying bile itself? Wouldn't this maybe trigger some sort of mechanism by which our body thinks its producing more bile than usual, and will produce less?