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On 1/28/2021 at 7:09 AM, Anna Nim said:The Drs focus on the possibility of height getting stunted, but NO ONE talks about the lacking of thickening of jaw, bones, etc. To me, I have noticed a lot of victims are "fine boned". My son is very fine boned, his growth was stunted (among other things), he has a bit of an overbite, it has gotten worse, he just never filled out. I remember when he started filling out. I can see the difference from his passport pic, not too sure if it doesn't distort. I hate this drug. I wish I was dead, but I need to be here for my son. I am trapped for the rest of my life seeing the damage to my priorly perfect son.
Can you please check out your PM on propeciahelp? Thanks. @Dubya_BFrom years of experience and information, can you please help us with this? Do you personally have such problems.
Is there any chance that PAS made our mandible bone (or bones in general) to grow less? Due to lowered T levels and GH maybe? What do you think about Anna's message? Im freaking out and crying..
PS: @Anna NimI know i am the one who raised this concern and maybe freaked you out, but i don't think one does not simply ''fill out'' his overbite issue with age. Ask this to a dentist.
If someone in family has a overbite, he sure could have it. My mother also seems to have it a little. Even my orthodontist himself has it. He showed me his in clinic, when i raised my concerns.He said he didn't care it and didn't treat it. So please check yours and his fathers. Maybe PAS didn't change his bones... Also are you sure his height got stunted?
On 1/29/2021 at 5:15 AM, Accudonia said:Hey SaffronAide, what acoincidence,your story couldnt relate to mine any further.
We both took accutane at 16 and on the topic of the jaw bone growth, the right side of my jaw does in fact appear noticeablylarger. This could be due to the fact that I have many dental crowns and some of them could be botched, but after reading your story Im suspecting accutane couldve caused this.
I have read that accutane unfortunately can stunt ones growth if taken as a teenager. But knowing now that it can deform bone growth symmetrically sounds scary. Italmost soundslike thoseagent orange geneticallymutated victims.
For your 2nd question, no I havent noticed anything about my shoulder width.But that jaw deformity is an interesting topic to say the least.
It can close the growth plates early. This effect is dose dependant.
The other effects of the drug are hormonal. So if you didn't develop lasting sexual side effects. Or low GH symptoms, you should be fine. Can you please describe more about your jaw? If you had dental issues before PAS why would you ascribe it to it? Thanks.
Do you feel like your facial development got halted? Do you have a prominent brow ridge? A good jawline?
Also, you missed the most important question, do you have an overbite or not? Please check it out on the mirror, i gave the link about how to do it.
February 2nd at 11:59 PM LONDON time is the closing of the MHRA survey.
This is the time to tell your story, give your opinion-even as narrow their focus is.
I hope that they at the VERY least expand the PIP information, which then can be used to get warnings on the USA PIP's. People need to have informed consent regarding the sexual sides.
https://www.surveys.mhra.gov.uk/5fa2caf33414eb1dd21958ad
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/isotretinoin-call-for-information-to-be-considered-as-part-of-an-expert-review
JUST IN! THE MHRA has granted a short extension in the call for information. Now you have time for your friends and family to write in. You have time to send them more of your information! February 16th!!!!
Check it out!!
Dear Colleague,
We really appreciate all of the information that has been submitted through the isotretinoin call for information so far.
However, a decision has been made toextendthe isotretinoin call for information for an additional two weeks. This extension follows concerns raised about the impact of the Christmas and New Year holiday period on individuals and organisations ability to contribute to the call for information.
The new deadline for submissions is now 16 February 2021.
Please share this information with anyone else you think may wish to contribute. If anyone is experiencing problems preventing them contributing they should contact the MHRA directly via[email protected]and we will try to help.
We will continue to publicise the call for information and the extension to the deadline via all routes including Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter.
There are no plans for any further extensions beyond this new deadline as these could not be made without significantly impacting on the overall timeline for the review.
Kind Regards,
Patient, Public and Stakeholder Engagement team
Communications division
Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency
10 South Colonnade, Canary Wharf, London E14 4PU
Telephone: 0203 080 6000
Email:[email protected]
Stay connected:mhra.gov.uk/stayconnected
On 1/29/2021 at 11:20 PM, DifferentQuit said:@Gunnersup Your only symptom is hair loss right? I am going through that as well so i can empathize with your problem. For people who are suffering with mental issues, digestive issues, immune issues, joint pain issues etc. I feel extremely lucky that I dont have any of those. If the hair loss doesnt stop in the next few months, I will go to my derm get a biopsy done to see if its immune relate. Then I will book an appointment with a naturopath to see if I can get to the root of the problem. But tbh bro, worst case scenario, i buzz my hair then i hit the gym and get some tattoos lol. Im just writing to you to remember that hair doesnt make you any more or less of a person, and to feel content that at least you can just buzz your hair and rock the low cut.
Where are you from?
On 1/30/2021 at 6:44 PM, Aaron76 said:The yellow card system is what I was referring to. I filled out the accutane specific survey earlier this weekend. The yellow card system should NOT be for Brits only. It should be for people all over the world. Some people give up when they come to the yellow card web page that asks them for their british postal info, and can't get beyond that page.
Please don't add to the confusion.
Each country has their own regulator which you should report your side effects.
MHRA(yellow card) in the UK
FAERS Dashboard (USA)
The review is being undertakend by the MHRA and they have put out a call for information re the survey.
The survey is open to everyone so please take this opportunity to save lives.
The survey has been extended for two weeks.
Make your concerns know and make safetysuggesiton going forward.
If you think a ban is needed say so.
A ban for under 18's or 21's maybe?
A consent form with lots of info - hell yes!!
Blame everything on family history:
2 hours ago, timetoban said:Blame everything on family history:
I read that a long time ago. Just adds more evidence to the autoimmunity angle of isotretinoin
6 hours ago, timetoban said:Where are you from?
Please don't add to the confusion.
Each country has their own regulator which you should report your side effects.
MHRA(yellow card) in the UK
FAERS Dashboard (USA)
The review is being undertakend by the MHRA and they have put out a call for information re the survey.
The survey is open to everyone so please take this opportunity to save lives.
The survey has been extended for two weeks.
Make your concerns know and make safetysuggesiton going forward.
If you think a ban is needed say so.
A ban for under 18's or 21's maybe?
A consent form with lots of info - hell yes!!
That last point you make is bang on point!!
Idlike to think most people these days would avoid Accutane just thru easy research via the internet- something many of us missed out on 22 years ago!!
None the less, a consent form would at least present all the side effects and dangers of the drug - youd think that alone would eliminate 50 percent of people going onthis shitdrug, youd only have yourself to blame if you were shown all the potential side effects yet still decided to go onit...
Anyway, the real hope is it gets banned entirely!!
I was wondering if someone here actually took Mucuna Pruriens for raising dopamine levels which if I understand correctly are messed after the Accutane treatment, resulting in depression (I had this for years), and may also explain this:
https://rxisk.org/accutane-30-years-of-trading-our-sex-lives-for-clear-skin/
In this book: http://libgen.lc/item/index.php?md5=D0A268CBFAD463E9794C58D5992B45F4
At page 250 there is a quick summary about the sexual effects. About MUCUNA, it's also said it can decrease somehow prolactin. If a man has high prolactin, even if it's not high enough to need taking meds to decrease, it can be enough to be a hindrance to raising his libido. For example, in my case all my measures were in the 20's. For a male it has to be half that number (it can't be too low, just like estradiol, otherwise that will also mean low testosterone/libido).
The problem with Mucuna is that a) it can't be taken on a daily basis, you need to cycle (and this one you really need to do this, it's not a mere suggestion). and b) it can mess with our brain, and I mean really mess with it, similar to what isotretinoin can do in terms of harming.
A few comments in that video page mention that:
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Q: Is there any way to take it without side effects ? And is there a bullet proof way to make sure I don't do damage , thank you !
A: Take low amounts, and don™t take it every day. This is the best way to avoid side effects.
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I don't really think this is a natural way to raise dopamine levels.
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I'm not really sure I can capture my reservations that way.
I guess my feeling is that the "natural" way would be to provide the material for dopamine production and put the body in a state where it produces dopamine on its own.
L-dopa isn't a raw material for dopamine production in the same way l-tyrosine is. It's more like a "pro-neurotransmitter" in the same way dhea is a pro-hormone.
>>>>>>>
I get your sentiment. But technically DHEA is a hormone. It has its own physiological activities as a molecule, where as ldopa doesn™t.
Mucuna may not be the safest or practical long term, but it is natural. There are a lot of things that are natural but aren™t safe if abused. This would probably fit into that category. But I agree, tyrosine has much less risk of abuse, and is therefore safer long term.
>>>>>>>
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I took it pretty much daily for 12 months. I stopped taking it for about 8 months now. Is there a drawback to mucuna? I feel like I get less pleasure, excitement, and joy out of everything in life now. Wondering if it had a negative impact on my neurotransmitters.
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I wouldn™t expect side effects to last that long. Maybe a month tops. You may have been treating an underlying depression issue, and now you just recognize it more now. It™s hard to say though without more background.
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Q: How safe is it? Is it addictive? Do you need to cycle it? Any response would be appreciated.
A: Fairly safe. But it is fairly potent as well. Definitely something you would want to cycle!
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I've heard that it can actually worsen serotonin type depression. I started taking it a few days ago, low dose only every second day. As well as damiana on two seperate occasions on an evening. The past couple of days I have felt a little onset of depression again after being in the clear for over a month. From my understanding it supplies the brain with the material to support dopamine release but none the less causes an unsustainable amount of dopamine release thus it should be taken only every other day. But I do not understand how if this is true, that like after taking a drug that causes dopamine release, it is not assumed that you will experience a come down period where you are worse than you were to begin with. How do I know that taking mucuna powder is good for my health? I'm thinking of decreasing my intake to only twice a week and seeing how that feels. Thoughts?
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Yeah. Dopamine and serotonin have an inverse relationship. When you increase one. The other will decrease.
As far as how often to take it. Mucuna seams to be like any other compound that affects neurotransmitters, including caffeine. As long as you don™t take it super often, the œrebound typically isn™t noticed. Your body usually can do a good job compensating.
>>>>>>>
Don™t take it all it can mess up you circadian rhythm.
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I recently bought some and... I had just come from a run so I was already feeling great from some natural dopamine. I get home and my Mucuna had arrived I open the package to put into a container and some spills out. I take a tap of it (with my finger) just to taste it for the first time. (I wasn™t planning to take any) After an hour my mood sky rocketed I thought it was because I was weight lifting but shortly after I was done I was still extremely motivated and just wanted to do so many productive things. I suddenly realized that this wasnt natural. I realized the Mucuna had made its effect on me. Holy moly I felt too great but then it wouldn™t calm down which led to some anxiety , nausea and then it was hard to sleep. (I took it around 8pm) honestly it felt like a drug. The next day i felt like crap. I still managed to work out and that helped me balance my mood. Basically I found out how powerful this stuff is and too be careful with it. It™s not something to take lightly. I plan to take it again but in a very small dose also this time mixed with food or coffee. But i am going to wait at least a week.
>>>>>>>>>
Yeah. Mucuna is definitely strong. Best to spread out doses
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LDopa destroys neurons in the brain non-stop, links below to many many studies published on NCBI, YouTube and various medical portals.
I dont understand how this hormonal supplement that can make a person disabled, can be bought at any store, without a prescription and warning of irreversible side effects.
How do you think, supplements with Mucuna Pruriens which contains L-DOPA also caused such destructive effect on the brain as Levodopa drugs, right?
Tell me please what supplements may have effects similar to LDopa ?
Such effects are mild relaxation, slight blurred vision and a propensity to communicate.
I consuming about a double serving once, 30mg Ldopa
Because I want to replace alcohol consumption to some kind of supplement,
because consuming a double serving of Mucuna Pruriens (4 capsules), together with a double serving of GABA gave me exactly the same effect as drinking alcohol,
I used it once a week.
Using of Tyrosine, NALT or 5HTTP in double, triple doses does not give such effects.
Considering the constant destruction that Ldopa does to the neurons of the brain, drinking alcohol seems to be realy much safer for the brain than use Ldopa ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482140/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32707436/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0891584902007682?via%3Dihub
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9171163/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7552304/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12421594/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12835121/
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And then we read a review like this:
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Somehow I think this would be a bad idea. Another supplement that is supposed to be benefitial for the brain is magnesium L-threonate. Some have reported great results with it, others haven't adapted and had to give up due to side effects being too much to bear.
So I was thinking MUCUNA is only going to make a difference for specific cases, and if shouldn't be the last resort after many others have failed.
There are many supplements out there and for increasing libido perhaps MACA, Tongkat Ali, Tribulus and others will make a difference. Including vitamin D-3 (which I proved to be effective in raising testosterone) and magnesium (currently I am trying MALATE and glycinate).
About dopamine:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jdv.16489
Interesting passage:
Suicidal risk with isotretinoin treatment a neverending story
Despite numerous case reports linking isotretinoin to depression, suicidal ideation and suicide, there is, as yet, no clear proof of an association. But van Broekhoven et al. published that although any causal relationship has not been identified, such a relationship cannot be ruled out.
In contrast, other authors who reviewed the literature for case reports and database studies and showed a clear association, came to the result that this association is biologically plausible. Since isotretinoin crosses the bloodbrain barrier, it affects the expression of a broad spectrum of genes in the limbic structures, thus affecting the function of the dopaminergic, serotonergic and noradrenergic neurons involved in the regulation of mood and emotion. Borovaya et al. suggested that isotretinoin in high concentrations inhibits hippocampal neurogenesis and induces apoptosis of hippocampal cells.
However, some studies do not confirm this pathogenic role, and isotretinoin was even reported to have a therapeutic effect in acneassociated depression. Although prospective studies have opposite results, limitations might make them unsuitable to identify a subgroup of patients who may be at risk of developing depression or suicidal ideation with ITT. Kellett and Gawkrodger looked in a prospective study to the different treatment phases with isotretinoin (week 1week 8) and compared to the second phase (week 9week 16). Patients reported significant improvements in the cognitiveaffective features of depression during the first phase of treatment, but not during the second phase. Corresponding improvements in the somatic symptoms of depression and hopelessness were not found.
**************
Also:
Isotretinoin-induced psychotic episode in a 17-year-old adolescent male
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2050313X20931342
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(...)
Goodman has put forward three lines of evidence proposing retinoid dysregulation as a possible cause of schizophrenia: (1) the similarity of symptomatology and clinical features, for example, thought disorder, intellectual disability, enlarged ventricles, microcephaly, and congenital malformations; (2) specific gene loci linked to schizophrenia are also known gene loci within the retinoid signaling system, namely RAR and RXR; and (3) retinoid regulation targets schizophrenia genes, in particular, genes of dopamine and serotonin. More recently, isotretinoin treatment, schizophrenia, and depression have each been associated with elevated homocysteine levels, indicating the possibility that isotretinoin-induced homocysteine elevation may contribute to psychiatric side effects.
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Plus:
https://annals-general-psychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1744-859X-8-2
Isotretinoin and psychopathology: a review
(...)
Apart from schizophrenia, dopamine has also been implicated in depression. The dopamine hypothesis of depression supports a diminished dopaminergic neurotransmission mainly in the prefrontal cortex. Psychomotor retardation, lack of motivation, and inability to concentrate and experience pleasure are the prominent features of depression linked with reduced dopamine transmission. Retinoic acid increases the expression of genes involved in dopamine signal transduction. Therefore, the direction of its effect is the opposite of what would be expected for an agent that promotes depression. It is hypothesised, however, that an initial induction of the dopaminergic system results over time in negative feedback and a long-term decline in some elements of dopaminergic transmission.
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Hey guys....I am here after more than a year lol.... I was preparing for my exams so that's why I decided to stop thinking about accutane and it's sides..but I just checked this forum again.. I took accutane nearly 2.5 years ago..had some terrible hairloss then decided to quit it.... Now my hair is thin..like only thin from one side of my head... But the thing is... Now I lose only 10-12 hair per day...and I think it's quite normal...cuz before that I used to lose about so many hairs in a day..but now it's pretty normal...but my hair is thin..just like last year :/.... But I don't care much about them cuz it doesn't look thin ..lol.. it's just that the middle of my hairline is thin...and all other side's are pretty normal... I don't use anything now... I tried to go to a derm last year...he gave me fin+ minox topical (I was only 17 at that time)...I returned it back..cuz I knew that it could be really harmful...but the condition of my hair is still same just like last year...maybe a lil bad? I am not sure... But the hairloss has definitely slowed down...like 10-15 hairs is still okay.. imo.... what's your hairloss count guys? I really wanna know... My hairline is still just like before ....no receding lol..just thin hair from front :/....
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On 2/7/2021 at 5:21 PM, Rohit@123 said:Hey guys....I am here after more than a year lol.... I was preparing for my exams so that's why I decided to stop thinking about accutane and it's sides..but I just checked this forum again.. I took accutane nearly 2.5 years ago..had some terrible hairloss then decided to quit it.... Now my hair is thin..like only thin from one side of my head... But the thing is... Now I lose only 10-12 hair per day...and I think it's quite normal...cuz before that I used to lose about so many hairs in a day..but now it's pretty normal...but my hair is thin..just like last year :/.... But I don't care much about them cuz it doesn't look thin ..lol.. it's just that the middle of my hairline is thin...and all other side's are pretty normal... I don't use anything now... I tried to go to a derm last year...he gave me fin+ minox topical (I was only 17 at that time)...I returned it back..cuz I knew that it could be really harmful...but the condition of my hair is still same just like last year...maybe a lil bad? I am not sure... But the hairloss has definitely slowed down...like 10-15 hairs is still okay.. imo.... what's your hairloss count guys? I really wanna know... My hairline is still just like before ....no receding lol..just thin hair from front :/....
Hair loss is also a result of vitamin D-3 (cholecalciferol) deficiency. Even if Accutane can't induce thisdeficiency people that hadacne often have this problem, so you might want to really check what your current levels are. There's a calculator here (article requires free registration to be read): https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/01/09/uk-vitamin-d-and-coronavirus.aspx
https://www.acne.org/oral-vitamin-d-how-much-is-too-much.html
You need to have blood levels between 35 and 50 ng/DL (note: 50 is already too much, so stick in 40's). When taking D-3 you also need to take vitamin K-2 (prefer MK-7 because it stays longer than MK-4 in your body, and stick with 100 or 120 Mcg). I suggest no more than 2000 IU of D-3, howeverif you are really deficientthen you may need 4000 or more. Do two blood tests: before taking any D-3 capsules and at least 3-4 months later, to check if you have reached 35-50 ng/DL. Once you achieve that result, then take half the dose. Example: 2000 IU now, 1000 IU for additional 3 months. Also you need to ingest some food with fat to absorb D-3.
Vitamin K2 needs to be taken with D-3, this is really required to prevent soft tissue calcification, because D-3 makes your body absorb more calcium. Due to that fact you need to reduce calcium-rich foods (eat them a few times a month, or at least never on a daily basis), such as cheese, yogurt, cow's milk and especially any nut milk enriched with calcium. Remove the latter permanently from your diet. Read this reddit thread for more info: [removed]
And of course don't combine the calcium foods with D-3 when doing both in the same day, wait a few hours between them. I take D-3 at lunch (at night it will interfere with sleep).
This reddit thread I posted is very detailed in terms of explaining how taking D-3 and not taking care of the rest can be damaging for you. I fixed my tendinits problemby adding a good vitamin K-2 bottle, and also Magnesium, in my case MALATE, both from Now Foods (glycinate is better taking before going to sleep, because it's more relaxing, while MALATE should be taken at morning or afternoon because it's stimulating).
Magnesium is really required to make it easier to absorb D-3 and also to prevent the deleterious side effects from too much calcium(Magnesium competes with calcium for absorption, and also fixes the problems caused by the latter). As I said in reddit we actually need much less calcium than most recommend: no more than 500 mg daily. Only few people need more than this.
And even those should extract from the diet, never take a calcium supplement or a multivitamin with calcium (and also with IRON).
About HAIR LOSS: these videos:
Will be really helpful for you. Thinning of hair is often caused by vitamin deficiencies, also collagen.
I am currently trying healthy keto diet with intermitent fasting, and these supplements:
1) KRILL OIL. Recommended brands are (first ones are cheaper):
- Micro Ingredients
- Sports Research
- MegaRed
- Purity Labs
- Bronson
- Now Foods
Or 1.1) Ultra Omega 3 from Now Foods, however all Omega 3 have vitamin E derived from soy, to prevent it from spoiling. Krill is said to be better for us, but it's always more expensive.
2) BORON from Pure Encapsulations. It helps with D-3 absorption and increasing of testosterone.
3) Ashwagandha.
From Tribe Organics or Nootropics Depot. This channel mentions this and other adaptogens:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb5oHt9yTBD1lJSa5rKlKfQ/search?query=ashwagandha
Just be careful if you have some specific condition:
https://thechalkboardmag.com/ashwagandha-adaptogen-side-effects
4) Astaxanthin, and also Lutein + Zeaxanthin, for our vision.
A few brands for Astaxanthin:
- Sports Research (6 or 12 mg)
- Jarrow Formulas (12 mg)
- Viva Naturals (12 mg)
And Lutein + Zeaxanthin:
- Micro Ingredients
- Sports Research
5)COLLAGEN
Many brands to choose from. Stick with powder, search for "collagen peptides", some offer types I and II. I am taking collagen incapsules, from Natural Elements.
6) If you are trying for a while a multivitamin, then see if NATURELO is a good choice:
[Edited link out]
One thing to be concerned is the ammount of vitamin B-6. Stick with a bottle that does not exceed RDA of 1.3 mg. More B-6 can cause serious health issues, even as low as 16.5 mg daily.
7) ZINC deficiency also cause hair loss (and low testosterone). it's better to take no more than 10, 11 mg daily. The NATURELO multivitamin I mentioned has zinc.
https://zinc.ca/blog/why-zinc-deficiency-cause-hair-loss/
8) For vitamin C I am considering these bottles:
- Fresh Nutrition
- ForestLeaf
- Root Vitality
- Organic Acerola Cherry Powder
- Garden of Life
If not any of these get a good liposomal C brand. Tips for choosing one: https://coremedscience.com/blogs/wellness/how-to-pick-the-best-liposomal-vitamin-c (note that many have bad ingredients and are not truly liposomal).
You may need to ditch the multivitamin (due to low doses) and take specifically BIOTIN (vitamin B-7) to correct your problem. And a probiotic as mentioned in one of the videos.
For more tips on what specific brands to choose for foods and drinks search for FLAV CITY (Youtube channel by Bobby Parrish) and Thomas DeLauer. They often do lives from grocery stores and are really helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/user/flavcity/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/ThomasDeLauerOfficial/videos
P.S. A few more links:
Magnesium glycinate (to be taken before you go to bed):
- From NATURELO;
MALATE from Double Wood Supplements;
I am sticking with bottles that don't have magnesium stearate in the ingredient list:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/23/whole-food-supplement-dangers.aspx
For D-3 and K-2 MK-7:
D-3 2000 IU from Doctor's Best;
K-2 MK-7 from Now Foods (the one I am taking).
..thin in the middle
Perene
Wouldnt autoimmune issues be more the culprit for hair loss over Vit D deficiency??
Have had low D before and yes its good to identify and build the lvls up again but source of the problem is the bigger question to ask
One day well know the source of our issues and wont have to supplement with band aid solutions
Even the brain issues you mention on previous page could have more to do with why someone is losing their hair
4 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Perene
Wouldnt autoimmune issues be more the culprit for hair loss over Vit D deficiency??
Have had low D before and yes its good to identify and build the lvls up again but source of the problem is the bigger question to ask
One day well know the source of our issues and wont have to supplement with band aid solutions
Even the brain issues you mention on previous page could have more to do with why someone is losing their hair
Most of the time if you fix your diet (and do someFASTING, like 16/8), workout routine, sleep and supplementation (which I would say account for 30% of the results) these conditions are fixed or improve greatly.
LUPUS is one of the diseases that can cause hair loss, because one of the consequences iswidespread inflammation that usually involves the skin, particularly the face and scalp. Most people (not just Accutane users) have vitamin D deficiency (and others that can only be fixed with supplements, like Boron and Magnesium). I would say 90% of people have an issue that could have been easily fixed by following the natural ways to heal the body(and no, the diet can't in some cases dispense withthe supplementpills). Including ACNE in the first place.
Drugs may be necessary to fix a health condition, howevermost of the time they create other problems and only help a litlewith the symptoms, not the root of the issue.
Some LUPUS triggers are UV light, birth control, stress, certain drugs and low vitamin D.
I mentioned Ashwagandha before (perhaps the best supplement to fix high stress), since stress means high cortisol (and lower testosterone), also there's a wayto measure this: SALIVARY CORTISOL. It's annoying to do it, because you have to collect during the day (and deliver to the lab), yet I think it can be important to check yours. When I did once my resultswerelow, butthis is something that may not be accurate if you didsomething wrong, so a 2nd test to compare with the previous oneisreally recommended.
Vitamin D is exactly what someone needs if it has hair loss, because it is an immune modulator. it's also anti inflammatory. The thing is:you are not going to see muchresults if your diet is the cause of that inflammation, due to excess of Omega 6, for example. I am currently trying Keto and months later I'll perhaps add more carbs (stick with under 50 g net carbs a day), so it will probablybecome targeted Keto, once Ireturn to the gym. I may also add whey protein besides the Creatine I am taking.
Hashimoto is another conditionthat can cause HAIR LOSS.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/hair-loss-and-thyroid/
As you can see from the abovearticle the recommendations are basically the same from my previous post. Biotin, zinc, and there's a passage about IRON for women. As for IRON, Ithink it would be a good idea to do blood tests that can tell what your current levels are.
https://www.healthline.com/health/iron-deficiency-and-hair-loss
Chlorella is a supplement that may be helpful:
https://articles.mercola.com/vitamins-supplements/chlorella.aspx
I was thinking of taking spirulina, thendecided to skip once I heard about B-12 depletion (perhaps caused by it). Besides we need to take care about the SOURCE, not always easy to find one that doesn't come from China.
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About D levels: when I stopped for a year to take the pills (since it's hard to get enough from the Sun)my levels dropped from 40's to 31 ng/DL. So I took again, first 2000, then 4000 IU. It was a bad idea to take a high dose (the European Food Safe Authorityrecommends no more than 2000)and mix with calcium rich foods. Try to stay between 35-50 ng/DL.
As for the sexual dysfunction, I was about to start with an entirely new workout routine, aimed at increasing testosterone, when this COVID crisis started. Lack of exercise of course can't help with boosting libido. Even what kinds of exercises you do and how you help your body to recover influence the results.
I think I'll add again MACA, Tribulus and try for the first time Tongkat Ali. I don't think there is any trace of Accutane influence over my libido, it's just that a lot of things need to be done for me to recover themood/dispositionI once had.
I know I had severe depression, even so it lasted for a while and then it was gone for good.
We really need to take care of all these things: diet, exercise, fasting, supplements... and remove some toxins like EMF radiation. At the same time do all necessary tests to identify a specific disease or deficiency you are not seeing.
All these things combined make a lot of difference in how you feel. So before giving up and accepting defeat by thinking the damage from Accutane is not reversible, try the natural ways and wait for results.
Doctors aren't going to mention any of this, they are all ignorant about nutrition oronly want to push their meds. $$$$$
About how Accutane affects the brain, I would be very reluctantto use a supplement like Mucuna, because it's no joke to change brain chemistry(even if it's said to be for the better). In this case, dopamine. Sure some may benefit from using, but there's always a chance someone taking the wrong way or not needing, and this not ending well. That's why I advise that person to do everything else first (including taking other supplements)and only if it's not seeing results try something more powerful like Mucuna.
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About my last advice concerning vitamin C, a minor correction: https://greensmoothiegirl.com/ascorbic-acid-vitamin-c/
I was consideringtrying POWDERS orascorbic acid in capsules (liposomal or not), then I found the abovearticle.Next time I opt for a brand, I'll consider only the powder form for a changeand skip the capsules. Search for Organic Acerola or CAMU CAMU (more expensive) this way. Vitamin C is also required if you are taking collagen, because it helps with absorption.
P.S. 2 - Interesting bit about isotretinoin causing B-vitamins deficiency:
https://www.healthline.com/health/hair-loss-on-accutane#prevention-tips
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According to a 2014 study, isotretinoin treatment may cause a deficiency of B vitamins specifically folate (vitamin B-9).
If you experience a deficiency, consider talking to your doctor about vitamin B supplements or increasing your intake of foods rich in folate.
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https://www.1stopwellbeing.com/supplements-and-herbs/folatefolic-acid/hair-losshair-regrowth
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Folate is one of the nutrients, which help your hair stay healthy and strong. That is why lots of people that suffer from hair loss decide to take a folate supplement.
However, these people experience mixed results - sometimes folate helps, while often it doesnt bring about the desired results.
The reason for this is simple and depends on the cause of your condition.
If hair loss has been triggered by folate deficiency, taking folate/folic acid supplement can result in dramatic improvement. If, however, there is another reason behind hair loss, folate supplementation won't help until your resolve the underlying issue.
The effectiveness of folate has been shown in an animal study (there havent been any studies made in humans yet). In this study, folic acid has been given to a calf that showed signs of folate deficiency. Folic acid supplementation resulted in steady growth of hair; the calf completely recovered from all symptoms of folate deficiency within 2 months.
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There you have it... if this is the reason, then it's another side effect from this POISON. The study can be found in the Healthline article. Apparently vitamin B-12 is also depleted. And you know what happens when we don't have enough B-12?
https://www.webmd.com/diet/vitamin-b12-deficiency-symptoms-causes#1
LUPUS is on the list.
And so are:
-Mental problems like depression, memory loss, or behavioral changes.
My advice: supplement with ALL B-vitamins. Get a good whole-food multivitamin.
Nice bit of info - thx
Im more into taking exactly what my body says to take regarding Vit B - all tested via kinesiologist. Right now Im on B6 for digestion but have been on the other Bs too over the past two years.
My biggest concern really is trying to treat brain issues. Kinesiologist identified lactic acidissue and lymphatic drainage issue in brain. Problem is I still feel like it hasnt resolved even after many treatments,feels like Ive got too much spinal fluid around brain - Im hoping though its just inflammation - Im not about to get a spinal tap if I can help it
Ive got next session coming up, think Ill just ask do I need to now see a neurologist- get an MRI or something to look at inflammation. Not even sure if that can be done?
On 2/8/2021 at 10:37 AM, TrueJustice said:Nice bit of info - thx
Im more into taking exactly what my body says to take regarding Vit B - all tested via kinesiologist. Right now Im on B6 for digestion but have been on the other Bs too over the past two years.
My biggest concern really is trying to treat brain issues. Kinesiologist identified lactic acidissue and lymphatic drainage issue in brain. Problem is I still feel like it hasnt resolved even after many treatments,feels like Ive got too much spinal fluid around brain - Im hoping though its just inflammation - Im not about to get a spinal tap if I can help it
Ive got next session coming up, think Ill just ask do I need to now see a neurologist- get an MRI or something to look at inflammation. Not even sure if that can be done?
I never heard about isotretinoin causing B-vitamin deficiencies until last night, I wasn't expecting to find this,and then saw this article and the link for the study,and couldn't believe at first because I've been looking for evidence that could explain the sexual side effect bit for years. Is this a single research? It was conducted recently, in 2014.
I only mentioned that Kevin Pezzi book (readmy previous posts) about the low libido/sexual dysfunction that apparently lasts forever, long time still there after we ceased taking Accutane, and has resisted to all attempts to fix it (at least for some). The problem is we don't really know if these people have tried every single thing I mentioned in my last post, or did dozens of blood tests to check their condition. And if they didn't try anything possible then they can't argue this is impossible to fix.
If this is what happens when we do the Accutane treatment, then it's a groundbreaking discovery (I always said here we need to do many tests to check for deficiencies while taking and after we finished a 6 or more month-treatment),sothis explains the hair changing bitand one of the most (if not THE MOST) relevant side effect of all: depression, that led some to commit suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>
My total testosterone last time I checked was the highest ever, thanks to the D-3 pills and other lifestyle changes. When I first measured in 2017 they were in 300's, then increased to 500's over the years. However free testosterone (which is what really matters, and the more accurate way of saying if you have low T or not) hasn't increased a lot: from 6.91 (range for men between 4.5 >>>> 18.33) to 8.9 in October 2020 (range between 3.4 >>> 24.6).
I can clearly see that while my free T (and total T) are not so low that would qualify me as sick /having hypogonadism, it's in the low range. Meaning it's not even approaching half of a desired number. So it's low T, no question about it.
Also, my prolactin (I measured this more than 5 TIMES) has always been high, never low: in the 20's. For men it should be HALF that number. For a man high prolactin means low libido and of course low T.
Another indication of a problem (with me) are my ESTRADIOL/estrogen levels. For more info about how this is bad for men:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/it-aint-just-testosterone-estrogen-levels-play-a-big-role-in-mens-sex-drive/article14293730/
This is rarely discussed, 99.9% of people that talk about low libido,erectile dysfunction and low testosterone in MEN think that if your estradiol/estrogen levels are high, then you need to reduce them as much as possible. (note: MACA root from PERU perhaps can help with this by increasing estrogen a bit. And remember MACA is said to increase libido, not testosterone).
That is true, butif these levels are too low you'll have THE SAME PROBLEM. So it can't be too high, and too low. Never one of the extremes!
My last blood test showed13,6 pg/mL. For men it should be lower than 33. This is a bit vague. Then I looked into a blood test collected a year before, in 2019, where the paper gave me more information.
For ESTRADIOL it says:9,00 pg/mL. Lab range for men between11 - 144 pg/mL. This is clearly an indication that is TOO LOW.
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And then we look into DHT, which isDihydrotestosterone. What did my blood tests showed?
October 2020: REALLY LOW:93,0 pg/mL. For men the range is between112 a 955 pg/mL.
A year before:183,0 pg/mL, where for men the range is between250 a 1600 pg/mL.
What does it mean having low DHT?
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DHT is a hormone found in all of us, although it has become known as a male hormone because its derived from testosterone, and therefore found in greater quantities in males.
With that being the case, low DHT symptoms are most prevalent in men because DHT is responsible for regulating a number of functions in the male body. However, women can experience symptoms of low DHT as well.
DHT is essential to the growth of body hair and the development of sex organs such as the prostate. With DHT being intrinsically linked to libido, one of the most noticeable low DHT symptoms is a reduced sex drive.
In young men and women, low DHT symptoms could include feeling weaker in sports and athletic activites with difficulties growing and maintaining muscle mass.
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Another proof I have low libido. That's not all. I'll give you more.
- LH, theLuteinizing hormone
The effects of low luteinizing hormone production in men are primarily related to the resulting low levels of testosterone. Men may begin to secrete fluid from their nipples, much as a lactating mother would. Inadequate amounts of testosterone may also cause a drop in sperm production and in the man's sex drive. The loss of sexual desire can be gradual and therefore may go unnoticed. Some men develop erectile dysfunction as well, which is a much more obvious symptom that may prompt the patient to seek medical care, during which testing can reveal the low LH levels.
- FSH, theFollicle-stimulating hormone
Hypogonadism is a common reason for males who show a low FSH level. Insufficient testosterone is produced resulting in underdeveloped testicles and lowered sperm count. Either the pituitary or hypothalamus gland may be at fault. There may also be a tumor present in either the pituitary or hypothalamic gland which can be identified with a radiological examination. The Geneva Foundation for Medical Education and Research states that a combination of CT scan and evaluation of prolactin serum levels can help with tumor diagnosis. If there is no tumor present, hypogonadism may be treated with testosterone replacement therapy by injection or topical application of a cream.
Hyperprolactinemia
Hyperprolactinemia can be a reason for low FSH levels in men and may first be preceded by symptoms such as vision difficulties and headaches. Georgia Reproductive Specialists state patients should first undergo radiology tests to rule out a tumor in the pituitary gland. The condition indicates a lowered pituitary response due to too little testosterone production. Both lowered libido and impotence are associated with the condition.
If I am not mistaken I already ruled out a tumor in the pituitary gland after a checking.
What were my levels?
In 2019:
LH -1,88 mIU/mL (range between0,57 -12,07)
FSH -5,09 mIU/mL (range between0,95 - 11,95)
2020:
LH - 2,81 mUI/mL (range between 1,24 - 8,62 mUI/mL)
FSH -6,02 mUI/mL (range between 1,27 - 19,26 mUI/mL)
So we can really say my LH has always been low, while FSH is probably OK.
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How can isotretinoin affect our libido?
Probably not just inducing depression due to vitamin B-12 deficiency. It does by messing with DHT and other stuff I mentioned before: [removed]
Does Isotretinoin Affect Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) Levels?
Conclusion:
Several human clinical trials, along with in vitro research, indicate that isotretinoin (ISO) reduces serum DHT. In fact, it is hypothesized that ISO may work by, in part, reducing the ability of the sebocyte to make DHT from testosterone.
There is no evidence that patients post-ISO suffer from lower levels of DHT. However, I recommend that those suffering from post-accutane syndrome (PAS) have their hormones test (including testosterone and DHT).
Well, there is now...
Also: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21103844/
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Besides suppressing sebum production, the exact mechanism of action of isotretinoin in acne vulgaris is not known. Several hormones have been linked to the pathogenesis of acne. In this study, we investigated the effects of isotretinoin on the pituitary-adrenal axis, whose activity may be increased in acne. Various hormone systems were evaluated before and after 3 months of isotretinoin treatment in 47 acne patients. Free triiodothyronine (T3), thyroid-stimulating hormone and thyroid-stimulating hormone receptor antibody levels decreased significantly during isotretinoin treatment (p < 0.001, p < 0.02 and p < 0.02, respectively), as did those of luteinising hormone, prolactin and total testosterone (p < 0.005), as well as morning cortisol and adrenocorticotropic hormone (p < 0.005 and p < 0.05, respectively). We conclude that isotretinoin causes mild suppression of pituitary hormone levels, which may be beneficial for tackling the pathogenesis of acne.
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And who can really guarantee all the Accutane changes aren't there to stay, forever? And that a lot of stuff needs to be done to increase these again? If that is somehow possible.
That's why I am saying we need to fix:
- Lifestyle, and get rid of toxins we are exposed, including but not limited to EMFs, bad ingredients in personal care products...
- Diet
- Sleep
- Exercise aimed at increasing testosterone
- Supplementation
And when all of this FAILS to give you results, then you consider this last resort.
Because the last thing we need is more drugs, more crap from Big Pharma that will probably give us other bad side effects:
LInk 1/ Link 2/ Link 3/ Link 4
Not to mention the fact this treatment is VERY EXPENSIVE. Imagine having to spend lots of cash probably for the rest of your life when you could somehow fix your libido issues with a little more work and over time...
Like I said I was about to try a new workout routine and even add some new supplements to my stack. This (without a doubt) would have influenced and if not fixed, helped with my libido. I do blood tests every X months to check how things are evolving.
What I am interesting in knowing about this study mentioningFOLATE (B-9) and B-12 depletion due to the isotretinoin treament is this:
- By depleting B-12 you damage for good your brain and body in terms of having a healthy sex drive? We all know that if something mess with our brain (and low B-12 can do that) then this also harms our sex drive.
When I say "for good" I mean that a damage was done and even if we supplement B-vitaminsand correct all things I mentioned before, this isn't going to be 100% effective to reverse the changes. I hope this isn't the case.
The Wikipedia article briefly states (about the sexual side effects):
Isotretinoin is also associated with sexual side effects, namely erectile dysfunction and reduced libido. In October 2017, the UK MHRA issued a Drug Safety Update to physicians in response to reports of these problems. This was in response to an EU review, published in August 2017, which states that a plausible physiological explanation of these side effects "may be a reduction in plasma testosterone". The review also stated that "the product information should be updated to include sexual dysfunction including erectile dysfunction and decreased libido as an undesirable effect with an unknown frequency". There have also been reports of spermatogenesis disorders, such as oligospermia. 27 cases of sexual dysfunction report either negative dechallenge or positive dechallenge.
If it really reduces then that explains why I had high libido before my 2011 treatment and 10 years later it had a massive dropand all my measures show low levels for everything.
Could this be greatly improved in a natural way? I am still trying to find out this.
Even a simple thing as not sleeping properly can cause a massive decrease in testosterone.
And one last warning: some deficiencies like magnesium and zinc can't be detected in usual blood tests. So always assume you are deficient and supplement anyway, of course not in high doses so you jeopardize your health short or long term. Avoid any supplement, for example, with vitamin B-6 higher than 2 mg per day. Always trya conservative dose for everything. This video briefly explains what happens when we don't do this: https://cutt.ly/gkmT3F3
Note: all my B-12 tests were showed to be OK, so I don't have low levels. They are withinthe lab range.
I did the mhra accutane survey back in January. Currently my program is below. I can only do 2 per day of each or the detox reaction is too strong. Will keep the board posted on progress, good or bad.
Supplements
Vitamin c gummies
Ancestral beef brain 1x2/day
Codeage beef pancreas 1x2/day
Ancestral beef intestines 1x2/day
Diet
Omnivore
Organic when possible
Remember Stefan> He was the first person to post on this thread.
Must complete by noon on the 16th of Feb
Someone mentionedangular cheilitis, dry lips... still as a side effect from Accutane. It shouldn't come as a surprise this is another vitamin deficiency: B2.
What is concerning about this is the following:
- Accutane can cause IBS
- There's no cure for it, at least according to this link:
https://www.webmd.com/ibs/supplements-help-ibs#1
The side effects are, of course, improved, if we take care of the diet and supplements. Including probiotics, which I didn't mention before.
Accutane's connection with causing IBS has beendiscussed a lot. I am going to recommend a few links about it:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-acne-drugs-cause-ibd-1943112
https://www.youhavealawyer.com/faq/accutane-bowel-disease-lawsuits/
Apparently there's no specific test for it, and it seems this is easy to extract from a good diet. But, like I said, maybe these people with IBS need to add more B2 than what they already getting. That's why I recommended a good whole-food multivitamin. If this is a B2 deficiency, then it's another one besides B-9 and B-12.
A good B-complex and diet may make all the difference for these people.
https://www.millerandzois.com/accutane-lawsuits-the-story.html
This link says:
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Certainly, they are correct that there are cases where people on Accutane were diagnosed with IBD that was not caused by the Accutane. In fact, studies have found other potential contributing factor to IBD, including smoking, family history, prior history of infections, and the use of birth control and antibiotics. But it is impossible to ignore the medical literature that is still building showing that Accutane use is a strong factor in causing IBD. In fact, it is more likely than not, some experts argue, that a patient with IBD who took Accutane developed the IBD from Accutane in the absence of any other evidence to support an alternative hypothesis.
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That's why we need to remove all theother crap and only leaveAccutane's influence over the body as the only remaining problem. If you don't fix diet, supplementation, exercise, etc. then you can't really know if your problem has a solution.
I said before all my blood tests over and over showed levels that indicate low libido. The problem is, I was about to start a new workout routine in March 2020... when this COVID crisis started. So I had to postpone more than a year and now doing exercises wearing a mask is going tobe awful. Still, as we infer from links like these:
http://spartantraveler.com/testosterone-diet-2015/
https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/
https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/an-update-on-my-testosterone-boosting-experiment-7-years-later/
https://life-longlearner.com/double-your-testosterone/
Being inactive or not doing some real effort at the gymis the worst thing someone can do for testosterone.
Before going through meds again or treatments that will for sure do more harm than good, we need to try to heal the bodynaturally. New drugs should only be used as a last resort, when you really know all the rest will not be enough.
And perhaps some people need a higher dose from a specific vitamin, this needs to be investigated because if you have a specific malabsorption problem, then the usual dose isn't going to be helpful. Or perhaps you need to fix things by taking probiotics.
I don't do probiotics because where I live all the good ones are imported and expensive. And I hadno need for them so far.
Just got out of another kinesiologist session.
basically said to him Im extremely frustrated with this lingering brain fog head pressure issue.
In a nutshell Ive still got lymphatic drainage issues going on, while ever thats still going on, the head wont clear.
Liver is still angry too he said - all part of the toxin drainage
Anyway, he tackled all the points associated with lymphatic which was just damn painful and unpleasant.Ill go back next week to see how this goes...
To be honest, I really hope this is all it is, Im loath to go and look at pituitary tumours and all that stuff before we rule this out as the problem.
supplement wise - he said stay on zinc, pau darco as theres lingering bacteria issue but to drop B6 - body is ok with that one
My suggestion- dont just chuck down a B multi, best to work with what your body needs at any given time - we use tincture drops for this. Some you have to keep in fridge too
@123">
On 2/7/2021 at 5:21 AM, Rohit@123 said:Hey guys....I am here after more than a year lol.... I was preparing for my exams so that's why I decided to stop thinking about accutane and it's sides..but I just checked this forum again.. I took accutane nearly 2.5 years ago..had some terrible hairloss then decided to quit it.... Now my hair is thin..like only thin from one side of my head... But the thing is... Now I lose only 10-12 hair per day...and I think it's quite normal...cuz before that I used to lose about so many hairs in a day..but now it's pretty normal...but my hair is thin..just like last year :/.... But I don't care much about them cuz it doesn't look thin ..lol.. it's just that the middle of my hairline is thin...and all other side's are pretty normal... I don't use anything now... I tried to go to a derm last year...he gave me fin+ minox topical (I was only 17 at that time)...I returned it back..cuz I knew that it could be really harmful...but the condition of my hair is still same just like last year...maybe a lil bad? I am not sure... But the hairloss has definitely slowed down...like 10-15 hairs is still okay.. imo.... what's your hairloss count guys? I really wanna know... My hairline is still just like before ....no receding lol..just thin hair from front :/....
Guy, I looked at your picture. You look fine. You have LOTS of hair. I believe you that one side is thinner or whatever, but I do NOT see it. Leave your head alone. My son has receding and a whole list of other issues.
Hey guy, so Iwanted to touch on the hair growth dysfunction topic.
Besides the obvious fact that it causes hair loss/hair thinning, has anybody noticed randomlong hair growing on your chest/face? (Not sure if anybody here brought it up yet).Im a 23 year old male with healthy hair just around the chin area and a healthy head of hair as well.
But beyond that, every week or so I randomly find abnormally long/single pieces of hair sprouting onthe cheek area. This same hair dysfunction is also oddly seen on my chest. I just wanted to comment this here tosee if this could be (very well seems to be) an accutane related problem.