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Geralt you need to stop harming yourself with the Xanax cigarettes and alcohol, adopt a ketogenic diet, stay away from women, and hold on. I'm working on a protocol and I'd like to think it will be complete before summers end. Head to McDonalds and pig out on all the fat you want, which will help eliminate those unhealthy cravings, do some raw organic fruit daily as well, and hold on. I'll be back here if/when the program is complete.
13 hours ago, GeRalt said:Hey guys, any advice on how to deal with the guilt and suicidal depression.
I find it hard to try to focus on repairing my body since getting hurt by this drug... i drink alcohol everyday, abuse xanax, and smoke cigarettes, and end up hating myself more.
I feel im very close to ending my life, and i just can't come to acceptance and make the best with what i have left so i ruin myself more..
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Watch YouTube vids of Jordan Peterson. Read '12 rules for lifes'. Read 'extinguishing the fires of hell' and 'poisoning for profits'. Adopt a strict vitamin-a elimination diet. Watch more Jordan Peterson. Profit.
pretty interesting study right here.
Evaluation of a novel dry eye model induced by oral administration of finasteride.
The present study was conducted to develop an androgen deficiency dry eye model induced by finasteride, and to evaluate ocular surface status and inflammatory cytokine gene expression in the lacrimal gland using a cytokine antibody array system
analyses confirmed a significant increase in proinflammatory cytokines, including IL1, IL6 and TNF, and antiinflammatory cytokines, including IL4 and IL10. The aforementioned data suggested that inflammation in antiandrogenic models resulted from a balance between inflammatory and antiinflammatory responses.
Recent findings from humans and animal models indicate that an inflammatory response occurs in the lacrimal gland and may significantly contribute to the pathophysiology of dry eye (1215). Clinical evidence suggests that topical anti-inflammatory treatment of dry eye is effective
finasteride administration resulted in a significant reduction in tear flow and severe inflammation of the lacrimal gland
Identifying key cytokines and evaluating their expression may provide useful biomarkers of inflammationin diseases. In this respect, one or a group of cytokines present in the lacrimal gland throughout disease may be particularly useful for tracking disease.
TNF- levels were significantly increased in the Fin group
Where is this Accutane survey you speak of??
The latest on me: eat only meat, fruit, and veggies. Take HCL with meals. Exercise. Sleep. I have been "treated" for my C. diff overgrowth and all the other crap that was on my last stool test but I feel no different. Need to retest. Treating my HPA axis helps alot. Taking licorice root, pregnenolone, and DHEA (all doctor prescribed). Really really tired of not being able to eat like a normal person. All i want to do is eat a sandwich and some rice and beans. My circadian rhythm has been screwed up for a long time. Can never get enough sleep. Thats the next thing I need to work on. Getting to bed earlier and waking up with the sun. Blue light blockers.
4 hours ago, SCOTT242 said:Where is this Accutane survey you speak of??
A page back. its on propeciahelp.
looking at the fin study i just posted. Something new that I dont think has been discussed on here.
Immune balance.
Specifically balance between pro inflammatory and anti inflammatory cytokines.
th1 vs th2 biased. I think there could be something here looking at that study.
if things start to lean more in one direction, it could cause problems.
The eyes had an immune response based on exposure to finasteride.
Im sure this could extend to the entire body.
Something else as well @Dubya_B
we also know accutane can have a negative effect on the mucus layer throughout the gi tract. This type of negative effect could extend to the sinuses and even gum tissue. A study I showed you not too long ago had no treatment for this dybositic shift in the gi tract 20 years post accutane.
What else has a mucus layer? our eyes.
8 hours ago, guitarman01 said:Something else as well @Dubya_B
we also know accutane can have a negative effect on the mucus layer throughout the gi tract. This type of negative effect could extend to the sinuses and even gum tissue. A study I showed you not too long ago had no treatment for this dybositic shift in the gi tract 20 years post accutane.
What else has a mucus layer? our eyes.
The ocular surface including the cornea and conjunctiva and its overlying tear film are the first tissues of theeyeto interact with the external environment. ... A major protective mechanism that the corneal and conjunctival cells have developed is secretion of the innermostlayerof the tear film, themucous layer.
How did your tnfa test go?
15 hours ago, Calcified said:How did your tnfa test go?
after looking into this I realized a positive or negative result really wouldn't tell me much.
it was negative or in normal range.
what I was talking about with immunity, specifically a balance between proinflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines.
th1 vs th2. you hear so many with some of these sydromes saying they dont get sick anymore.
is that true or is the body not fighting what it should be fighting? I believe i have felt better in some ways when I felt sickish.
The body needs to know where the inflammation is to begin the healing process.
here's an example
I have eosinophilic esophagitis, allergies, acid reflux and elevated ige antibodies
this swings more towards a th2 bias.
Effects of probiotics on serum levels of Th1/Th2 cytokine and clinical outcomes in severe traumatic brain-injured patients: a prospective randomized pilot study
https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/cc10579
Traumatic brain injury (TBI) is associated with a profound immunological dysfunction manifested by a severe shift from T-helper type 1 (Th1) to T-helper type 2 (Th2) response. This predisposes patients to infections, sepsis, and adverse outcomes. Probiotic bacteria have been shown to balance the Th1/Th2 cytokines in allergic murine models and patients. For the present study, we hypothesized that the enteral administration of probiotics would adjust the Th1/Th2 imbalance and improve clinical outcomes in TBI patients.
any probiotic absolutely must be looked at on a strain level even the same species can swing immunity in different directions or cancel the other one out.
9 hours ago, guitarman01 said:after looking into this I realized a positive or negative result really wouldn't tell me much.
it was negative or in normal range.
what I was talking about with immunity, specifically a balance between proinflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines.
th1 vs th2. you hear so many with some of these sydromes saying they dont get sick anymore.
is that true or is the body not fighting what it should be fighting? I believe i have felt better in some ways when I felt sickish.
The body needs to know where the inflammation is to begin the healing process.
here's an example
I have eosinophilic esophagitis, allergies, acid reflux and elevated ige antibodies
this swings more towards a th2 bias.
Effects of probiotics on serum levels of Th1/Th2 cytokine and clinical outcomes in severe traumatic brain-injured patients: a prospective randomized pilot study
https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/cc10579
Traumatic brain injury (TBI) is associated with a profound immunological dysfunction manifested by a severe shift from T-helper type 1 (Th1) to T-helper type 2 (Th2) response. This predisposes patients to infections, sepsis, and adverse outcomes. Probiotic bacteria have been shown to balance the Th1/Th2 cytokines in allergic murine models and patients. For the present study, we hypothesized that the enteral administration of probiotics would adjust the Th1/Th2 imbalance and improve clinical outcomes in TBI patients.
any probiotic absolutely must be looked at on a strain level even the same species can swing immunity in different directions or cancel the other one out.
People on fin probably test normal as well.
Maybe every probiotic strain that requires a certain type of vitamin a environment?
9 hours ago, Calcified said:Maybe every probiotic strain that requires a certain type of vitamin a environment?
it makes you wonder. I already had a colon polyp they had to remove. now I get to go back in 5 years.
Intake ofBifidobacterium longumand Fructo-oligosaccharides prevents Colorectal Carcinogenesis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29963455
promotion of retinoic acid metabolism byB. infantiswas a key regulatory feature of this bacterium[21]. In this report, we demonstrate thatB. infantisfeeding to mice results in increased CD103+RALDH+dendritic cells within the mucosa, which are responsible for the suppression of TH1 and TH17 lymphocytes and amelioration of dextran sulfate sodium (DSS)-induced colitis.
But.....
Recent findings have highlighted thatTh17 cytokinesare important for the induction of innate and adaptive host responses and contribute to host defense...
Colorectal Cancer Results When Retinoic Acid Is Lost, an Effect Caused by Inflammation
https://coloncancernewstoday.com/2016/09/06/colorectal-cancer-results-when-retinoic-acid-lost/
Normal gut bacteria can sometimes cause inflammation, a fact the team was aware of. They figured that these bacteria may contribute to the loss of retinoic acid, and, as a consequence, cancer.
Indeed, when they treated mice with cancer with broad-spectrum antibiotics to get rid of the gut microbes, tumors were dramatically reduced. And retinoic acid levels went back to normal.
We found that bacteria, or molecules produced by bacteria, can cause a massive inflammatory reaction in the gut that directly affects retinoic acid metabolism, Engleman said. Normally retinoic acid levels are regulated extremely tightly. This discovery could have important implications for the treatment of human colorectal cancer.
Things are pointing to isotretinoin having a long lasting epigenetic effect on suppressing th1(inflammatory cytokines) and promoting th2 (anti inflammatory cytokines)
I'll show you this next.
Its all about balance.
7 hours ago, guitarman01 said:it makes you wonder. I already had a colon polyp they had to remove. now I get to go back in 5 years.
Intake ofBifidobacterium longumand Fructo-oligosaccharides prevents Colorectal Carcinogenesis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29963455
promotion of retinoic acid metabolism byB. infantiswas a key regulatory feature of this bacterium[21]. In this report, we demonstrate thatB. infantisfeeding to mice results in increased CD103+RALDH+dendritic cells within the mucosa, which are responsible for the suppression of T H1 and TH17 lymphocytes and amelioration of dextran sulfate sodium (DSS)-induced colitis.
But.....
Recent findings have highlighted thatTh17 cytokinesare important for the induction of innate and adaptive host responses and contribute to host defense...
Colorectal Cancer Results When Retinoic Acid Is Lost, an Effect Caused by Inflammation
https://coloncancernewstoday.com/2016/09/06/colorectal-cancer-results-when-retinoic-acid-lost/
Normal gut bacteria can sometimes cause inflammation, a fact the team was aware of. They figured that these bacteria may contribute to the loss of retinoic acid, and, as a consequence, cancer.
Indeed, when they treated mice with cancer with broad-spectrum antibiotics to get rid of the gut microbes, tumors were dramatically reduced. And retinoic acid levels went back to normal.
We found that bacteria, or molecules produced by bacteria, can cause a massive inflammatory reaction in the gut that directly affects retinoic acid metabolism, Engleman said. Normally retinoic acid levels are regulated extremely tightly. This discovery could have important implications for the treatment of human colorectal cancer.
Things are pointing to isotretinoin having a long lasting epigenetic effect on suppressing th1(inflammatory cytokines) and promoting th2 (anti inflammatory cytokines)
I'll show you this next.
Its all about balance.
Antibiotics are cyp inhibitors. But they reduce good bacteria.
I wonder if over time cyp upregulation occurs in all humans, due to a lifetime of vitamin a exposure causing bowel cancer.
Are we at risk?
Retinoic acids exert direct effects on T cells to suppress Th1 development and enhance Th2 development via retinoic acid receptors.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12882839
Cutting edge: TLR2 directly triggers Th1 effector functions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513716
These results identify TLR2 as a new specific activator of Th1 cell function and imply the involvement in Th1-mediated responses.
Systemic isotretinoin therapy normalizes exaggerated TLR-2-mediated innate immune responses in acne patients.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22513780
Treatment of patients with isotretinoin significantly decreased monocyte TLR-2 expression and subsequent inflammatory cytokine response to P. acnes after 1 week of therapy. This effect was sustained 6 months following cessation of therapy, indicating that TLR-2 modulation may be involved in the durable therapeutic response to isotretinoin. This study demonstrates that isotretinoin exerts immunomodulatory effects in patients and sheds light on a potential mechanism for its long-term effects on acne. The modulation of TLR-2 expression on monocytes has important implications in other inflammatory disorders characterized by TLR-2 dysregulation.
Maybe you are right about certain lactobacilli. Not only that I have seen certain lactobacilli strains might produce vitamin k and being that lactobacilli are one of the few bacteria to colonize the stomach, this might be right at a site of absorption. Ive looked and talked about vitamin k extensively in the past, but begain to notice a mixed reaction supplementing k2. This could be because its also a growth factor for nearly all bacteria and could possibly worsen dysbiosis. I think it was something along the lines of retinoic acid down regulating matrix gla protein in the vascular structure, this could eventually lead to calcification. matrix gla protein is a vitamin k dependant protein.
and then you look even more recently.
Vitamin K2-Dependent GGCX and MGP Are Required for Homeostatic Calcium Regulation of Sperm Maturation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6461585/
Lactobacilli activate human dendritic cells that skew T cells toward T helper 1 polarization
12 hours ago, guitarman01 said:Maybe you are right about certain lactobacilli. Not only that I have seen certain lactobacilli strains might produce vitamin k and being that lactobacilli are one of the few bacteria to colonize the stomach, this might be right at a site of absorption. Ive looked and talked about vitamin k extensively in the past, but begain to notice a mixed reaction supplementing k2. This could be because its also a growth factor for nearly all bacteria and could possibly worsen dysbiosis. I think it was something along the lines of retinoic acid down regulating matrix gla protein in the vascular structure, this could eventually lead to calcification. matrix gla protein is a vitamin k dependant protein.
and then you look even more recently.
2019 Apr 26; 14: 210225.Published online 2019 Mar 29.doi:10.1016/j.isci.2019.03.030PMCID:PMC6461585PMID:30981116Vitamin K2-Dependent GGCX and MGP Are Required for Homeostatic Calcium Regulation of Sperm Maturation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6461585/
Lactobacilli activate human dendritic cells that skew T cells toward T helper 1 polarization
Yeah, it seems to be getting more obvious as to how things are different now.
I don't know if gut flora is maintainable without the correct Ra environment, I can see myself taking probiotics for life, but Ra environment may still be making things different/difficult.
Regarding antibiotics some studies say inhibit cyp, some say it's increased rdh7, either way Ra is increased. As per your studies Ra reduces inflammation and we have inflammation problems now, regardless of tests.
As I may have stated antibiotics stop isotretinoin induced folliculitis. Not permanent. The truth is isotretinoin would cure my folliculitis but I think theres a risk it will be worse years later and I would get more calcified.
Heaps of studies showing bifido and lactobacillus reductions in Ra deficient states.
Regarding calcification, Im thinking triglycerides, messed up gut bacteria etc.
Does anyone here with joint problems have normal triglycerides?
Just want to add high levels of Ra via isotretinoin also seems to increase inflammation, so yes there seems to be a target range, for Ra and gut bacteria.
I just recently had triglycerides, glucose and all cholesterol tested. all was in normal range minus ldl was a little high.
here's another concept. I Might be wrong about bifido having a positive effect in our case, in fact it could be a problem. It sucks to be the guinea pig. now I am looking at lactobacillus that dominate the small intestine, stomach and could even have positive effects on the oral cavity, all while thriving in and helping to regulate an acidic environment like the stomach. If I can verify that certain commercial lactobacillus strains can produce k2 that are indigenous to the gi tract or of human origin that could be huge. also when you hear about SIBO and SIFO, it could be whats coming up from below the small intestine.Thats not native to the small intestine,Unlike lactobacilli. A critical strain would be one that produces k2.
Preventing Age-Related Decline of Gut Compartmentalization Limits Microbiota Dysbiosis and Extends Lifespan
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1931312816300075
GI compartmentalization controls intestinal microbiota
Compartmentalization of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract of metazoans is critical for health. GI compartments contain specificmicrobiota, and microbiota dysbiosis is associated with intestinal dysfunction. Dysbiosis develops in agingintestines, yet how this relates to changes in GI compartmentalization remains unclear.
On 7/2/2019 at 2:00 AM, Francisco..Blanquez said:Ihave found some old papers about my roaccutane treatment when I was 16yd. 2 pills of 20mg every day for 2 month
Do you think it was too much?
Obviously if you suffer from PAS then it was.
I took 1 pill of 20 mg for 2 months and have an extreme version of PAS, with every single side effect:
From severe dry eye disease floaters and visual snow, to IBS and joint issues, to severe brain fog and sexual dysfunction and more issues.
Within the therapeutic dose ranges used by dermatologists, if you are susceptible to get harmed by accutane, anyexposure to the compound beyond several days has the potential to cause serious harm. Crank dude got hurt i think from taking 10 mg a day for only 10 days.
8 hours ago, GeRalt said:Obviously if you suffer from PAS then it was.
I took 1 pill of 20 mg for 2 months and have an extreme version of PAS, with every single side effect:
From severe dry eye disease floaters and visual snow, to IBS and joint issues, to severe brain fog and sexual dysfunction and more issues.
Within the therapeutic dose ranges used by dermatologists, if you are susceptible to get harmed by accutane, anyexposure to the compound beyond several days has the potential to cause serious harm. Crank dude got hurt i think from taking 10 mg a day for only 10 days.
I believe I took it for two or three months also. I can't remember the dosage but I want to say it was 10 or 20 mg for a month or twothen it was upped and the side effects were so bad I quit. A month after I was off the drug and having suicidal thoughts I called my dermatologist to let her know. She said it wasn't caused by the Accutane because it would have been out of my system by then. She said she would "look into it" and I never heard back from her again.
I've gone down the road of liver support for some time before I took a single sentence that Hulda Clark and Andre Moritz glossed over in their work regarding the liver/gallbladder purge method. You can do it every two weeks if you feel well. DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor, therefore I cannot give medical advice, you CAN overdo serial liver cleanses and it WILL deplete you vitamin B12 (like anyone is ever repleat in it anyway). This is the ONLY method that has restored health for me because everything else is like putting additives in your radiator to try to help the problem when a high pressure hose is needed to flush the system and get the sludge and rust out. I am not saying anything in regards to undoing damage created by retinol poisoning, but poison is poison, and the liver is the central processing unit for poison so for me that was the only place to start.
How many have you done?
I did 5 by the book and didnt get lasting results
Im happier on current path anyway working with kinesiologist. At least we can clear viruses, bacteria and fungus and actually know when theyve cleared
The Moritz system essentially works only on how you feel, you wouldnt know if youve cleared that lingering virus.
Also with Kinesiology you rebuild the body which ultimately gets it back to a statewhere it can eliminate things naturally, which is how it should be. Nature surely isnt so challenging that we need to do complicated liver cleanses to detox...just my opinion now that I know more on rebuilding the body.
I agree people should be consulting with a medical professional, kinesiologist etc, as even vitamins can be dangerous at certain levels.
Guitarman01 -
I'm not sure about k2.
In regards to probiotics theres alot of studies showing positive things about lactobacillus rhamnosus GG.
Man I am struggling so badly after accutane
4 months ago before I took it, I had my life completely together. Life was easy, I had meaning and purpose, I was a sociable, charismatic, funny and generally at ease person. Nothing or no one affected or bothered me.
I took it for 6 weeks and started noticing the side effects after just 2 weeks. so had to come off it. Depression, anxiety, mood swings. joint pain in my shoulders, neck, arm. head. My eyes would become hyper focused like I've never felt before.
Since coming off it, it feels like my world has just completely collapsed. I feel no enjoyment in anything anymore. Things I used to love like sports. my job, hanging out, I no longer like. My brain feels slower and softer. I remember how I used to think. the kind of thoughts I used to have and I no longer get them, things are such a struggle now. I feel mega mega depressed every day and I can see it in photos of myself now compared to before this poisonous drug. I was so full of life before and now my eyes look down and dead.
I hate accutane more than anything in my life. All I wanted to do was cure some back acne and now my whole life has been destroyed. Fuck this drug and fuck dermatologists for handing it out. They didn't even try anything else on me bar lymecline, straight onto the poison and now my whole life is hell.
I'm struggling so badly and it's not getting any better. it will be the biggest regret of my life (however long I have left of it anyway. I can't cope anymore) taking this fucking drug.