13 hours ago, marshl1 said:

It sounds like an educated guess to me. I think he's provided us with plenty of very useful information, check out his ebook if you haven't

Will check it out soon.

45 minutes ago, sacha_n said:

5 hours ago, marshl1 said:

It sounds like an educated guess to me. I think he's provided us with plenty of very useful information, check out his ebook if you haven't

Thank you @marshl1 for contacting GG (the author), his points are indeed useful. I'm too trying to adopt zero vit. A diet. It would probably be good to create a separate thread on these board dedicated to his theory.

I think that's a great idea. How are you finding the zero vitamin A diet? It's difficult isn't it

6 hours ago, Kolonie said:

Hello,

sorry for m bad English at first, I am from Germany.
My name is Dennis, I am 23 years old & have do Accutane about 1 year at 10mg/day (Last pill was on the beginning this year)
So I am 6 months without Accutan.
But I have some Problems left.

1. I am sweating like shit. Tones of sweat even when it™s 20C+.
It starts 2 Month after start taking accutan and don™t remove
When I sit my ass and my back is wet as hell. My forehead is wet always when the sun is shining on it..
and it does not go better.
Aluminium salts don™t work very good.
can someone please help me?

2. But not sooo heavy problem.
my skin get very ugly scars when it™s hurt.

I am very thankful if somebody can help my with this terrible live destroying sweating

King Regards!
Dennis

You™d be like many of us in that you have a Sebum production issue!!

Why? Well you could look at some of the posts on previous page for an explanation, there™s plenty on that page alone!!

I™m also thinking though that lack of œtestosterone can result in Sebum loss. Sweat just pours out of me and I™m 20 years after taking Accutane so time alone won™t heal you.

So you can either jump on the anti Vit A diet and see how that pans out, try increasing testosterone or work on gut health bacteria - these seem to be the 3 main areas of interest on the forum.

Keep us updated on how you progress!!

14 hours ago, marshl1 said:

I sent this on to the author of the ebook and here is what he had to say if you're interested.
 

"Can you please provide a source that retinoic acid specifically can be stored in the liver for long periods of time? Accutane is a metabolite of Retinol (vitamin A) known as 13-cis-retinoic acid. The body cannot convert retinoic acid back to retinal or retinol. The half-lives of retinoic acid and their associated metabolites are under 30 hours (Wiegland, 1998).

 

Yes, I am aware that the reported half-life for RA is documented to be very short. However, I'm not buying that information. Firstly, the Accutane victims that have contacted me typically report that they are still experiencing the "side-effects" after more than 10 years later. So, on one hand, there's no question the drug causes long term damage, but the body should have been able to recover from that damage after 10 years. Therefore,it more likely that the half-life is much longer than reported. Secondly, the 30 hours claim is complete nonsense because the treatment of Accutane is often for 6 months or more. Over that time, the Accutane accumulates in the lipids that the body continuously moves out into the sebaceous glands of the skin. This is functional mechanism of the drug, and it typically takes about 6 or more months for the drug to "work". It works by toxifying the lipids to such an extent that the RA then poisons the bacteria living in those lipids. So, since this process has been drudging and accumulation process has repeated millions of times over now, clearly accutane persists in this lipids for at least 6 months, or more.  Thus, someone is lying about the 30 hours. Of course, the RA is not just poisoning the bacteria living on the skin, it is also poisoning the all-important stem cells too.

 

I don't think I had specifically stated that RA can be stored in the liver for a long period of time. But, it definitely persists in the skin lipids for long periods of time. That fact has been completely proven. Lastly, there's been so much fraud and corruption surrounding the justification for Accutane, it would not surprise me at all to learn the 30 hour half-life determination was made by the marketing department. But, since we know that RA accumulates in the skin lipids for six months or more, why would we believe its not going to accumulate in other body lipids too?

 

Quite ironically, I am now totally convinced that acne is the result of the over-accumulation of VA in the sebaceous glands in the first place. This over-accumulation causes them to swell up and expand, and that opens the skin pores to the allow bacteria to more easily enter. It also provides the non-stop transport of lipids that fuels the growth of that bacteria. What's happened to me now is that after 4 years of no VA is all of my skin has become super smooth, super nice, almost like it was when I was 10 years old. The pores have definitely become tiny ( as in normal).

 

 

I read the ebook and wrote my all my disagreements to the author. All due respect, I believe the book is nonesense. I will provide several reasons here, aside from the possible glaring pharmacological error in assuming Accutane stays in the body for years.

The author's main premise is that vitamin A is a blanket toxin that is at the root of almost all auto-immune disease. If that is true, he must explain the following:1. Why do people with IBD show low vitamin A levels? Even if it is the disease causing the deficiency, shouldn't this be advantageous for symptoms? How come people with Chrohn's can be completely emaciated and still show symptoms?

 

But, let's not get too bogged down into debates. Debates are almost pointless. This is science, so let's see what the experiments show us. If you have time, and space I'd highly recommend repeating my small animal experiment.

 

Just so that you know, I'm not alone in this. I've been contacted by four separate academic medical researchers that very much agree with my observations and theories. It's just too early for them to make any public statements.

 

I hope this helps.

I am trying to understand this. So, someone wrote a book and is making the case that isotretinoin must stay in the body because people report symptoms years later. That's their argument - and they call it "science"?

Isotretinoin has a half life of 10-20 hours. It's not even close to years. Not even if you tried to come up with some made up justification in your head. Maybe they should read up on RAR and RXR. What is known is that retinoic acid has the ability to alter molecular "switches" in the body. It binds to your DNA via RAR.

And of course you can find retinoic acid in your body. There are proteins that regulate it, but it is always present.

A more plausible explanation is that the genome becomes damaged and in some people it can be weeks to years for it to become severe and/or widespread enough to exhibit symptoms. The severity is dependent upon the individual's genome, what damage, and where. That could also explain why it seems to be permanent and why there is such a multitude of symptoms.
 

Jason3 - is the testosterone treatment you have success with working on anything other than just your testosterone levels?

Is it helping repair genome damage for instance or is that completely unrelated?

What do we have to do here? Go to an anti ageing clinic or something to look at repairing cellular damage?

Hey,

I think the testosteron Theorie is absolotly wrong. I have taken it 2 years in low to high doses for bodybuilding and it changed nothing. Yes maybe you feel better, but only becomes testosteron makes you little better feeling, if you stop, then its the same shit. And its not an magic drug, the chances in feeling and so are very little.

And maybe its hart to hear, but I have read many of this pages and other sides... and I had a 30 minutes call with a medicin man from amanufacturing firm ofIsotretinoin (Isogalen in Germany) but I think we have absolutely no correct idea and will never find the right way to make accutan undone. I dont think it can beundone, because DNA etc.

And when there is a way, wewont find it, maybe a laboratory research can, but actually there isnt, no one is interested in research about accutan... itshopeless..
sorry for this bad words, but I think its useless to make hope any more.
i am so done with this shit..

Edit: And accutan is NOT in our bodys anymore, my dry lips got after threadment wet again, so I think it hasleft my body.

3 hours ago, Jason3 said:

I am trying to understand this. So, someone wrote a book and is making the case that isotretinoin must stay in the body because peoplereport symptoms years later. That's their argument - and they call it "science"?

Isotretinoin has a half life of 10-20 hours. It's not even close to years. Not even if you tried to come up with some made up justification in your head. Maybe they should read up on RAR and RXR. What is known is that retinoic acid has the ability to alter molecular "switches" in the body. It binds to your DNA via RAR.

And of course you can find retinoic acid in your body. There are proteins that regulate it, but it is always present.

A more plausible explanation is that the genome becomes damaged and in some people it can be weeks to years for it to become severe and/or widespread enough to exhibit symptoms. The severity is dependent upon the individual's genome, what damage, and where. That could also explain why it seems to be permanent and why there is such a multitude of symptoms.

You won't understand his theory if you don't read the ebook but it sounds like you have it all figured out anyway.

Good luck to you if you are making progress.

Thanks

Hey guys,

So i just wanted to to start off by saying that exactly one year ago from now (june 2017), i was in a horrible position dealing with accutane side effects. I had every single one, from ED, to depression, you name it. I took accutane for a month in October of 2016, so the symptoms had me been bothering me for a few months at this point. I was headed off to college in the upcoming weeks as well, so the added stress of that was almost too much to deal with. I came to a very, very dark point where i was about to give up and considered suicide. I felt like i had no hope. Then one day, i decided that I would muscled through this until i found a way out.

After trying countless diets, protocols, and lifestyle changes at school, i didnt have much success. Symptoms improved here and there, but nothing major. It wasnt until i came across that video on youtube about bile flow which everyone on this forum knows about. And then i began implementing his tips, and i did begin to see improvement in my symptoms.

This is where i had a lightning bulb go off in my head though. Essentially, since the day we all started accutane, we have been going through something known as a Herxheimer reaction, or healing reaction. I am very familiar with these, as I grew up with many food intolerances/allergies.

Essentially, this is what happens during a Herxheimer reaction. The reaction is triggered by a toxin overload or something that the immune system sees as an invader. When the body rapidly tries to detox beyond its capabilities, many of these toxins circulate around the body due to an overworked liver.As a response, the body goes into panic mode, as it diverts its attention strictly to detoxing the toxin. These are commonly seen in lyme disease and candida sufferers if you would like to do some research.

Now, the severity of the reaction depends exclusively on how much of the toxin is in the body. A small amount of the toxin could trigger just cold or flu like symptoms at most and last a few days, while a large amount of the toxin could produce detrimental symptoms such as endocrine dysfunctional, adrenal dysfunction, and psychiatric symptoms due to the high toxic load. These could last months.

Now how does this relate to us? Well, the reason i came across this is because i took whey protein just about everyday for a few months as a young teen, and my health began to decline. I was getting sick constantly, had fatigue, weight gain, and some others. It wasnt until i found out that my body was sensitive to dairy that the symptoms finally stopped once i stopped taking it. It took time, but they gradually dissipated. These symptoms all point to a Herxheimer reaction, as the dairy in the whey was seen as a toxin to my body. I was putting it into my body faster than it could detox, thus initiating this reaction.

So heres the point....since accutane dumps a tremendous amount of vitamin a in our bodies, our livers cant handle all of it. The excess is seen as a toxin, and since the excess vitamin a in our body is gigantic, the herxheimer reaction is too.

So that its guys...we are all in just one big herxheimer reaction. Im basically just putting what the guy said in that youtube video in different words. Our body is trying to detox this massive amount of vitamin a, resulting in toxin backup and a major herxheimer reaction. This is why we have hormone disruption, fatigue, digestive disorders, you name it. The body diverts all its attention to detoxing, as it goes into survival mode. It comes in waves too, as detoxing will stop occasionally for the body to rest. This is why we have periods of normality. But as time progresses, the reaction will get less and less intense until the toxin is out.

In terms of my health now, i am doing so much better. Time really is the only answer. Vitamin a leaves the body so slow, so this is why the detox takes so long. Ive been simply avoiding foods with retinol and eating a healthy diet with plenty of exercise. Thats it, and its working but slowly. Also, i only took this drug for 1 month, and its taken me 1.5 years to feel somewhat normal. So its a slow process, but i can guarantee it will resolve with time. just wanted to share this guys.

Also, If you want to learn more about herxheimers, a quick google search will do the job.

54 minutes ago, marshl1 said:

You won't understand his theory if you don't read the ebook but it sounds like you have it all figured out anyway.

Good luck to you if you are making progress.

Thanks

Hang on a second, in his defence why does he even need to read it when hes getting great results via testosterone treatment??

Until its all figured out we need to contrast different theories but by the sound of it Jason3 doesnt need to look too far into the Vit A theory if hes doing fine with testosterone yeah....

Correct me if Im wrong?

1 hour ago, TrueJustice said:

Hang on a second, in his defence why does he even need to read it when hes getting great results via testosterone treatment??

Until its all figured out we need to contrast different theories but by the sound of it Jason3 doesnt need to look too far into the Vit A theory if hes doing fine with testosterone yeah....

Correct me if Im wrong?

Of course, nobody needs to read the ebook. I just thought it was extremely important that people know it exists.

He's doing well, good luck to him

8 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Jason3 - is the testosterone treatment you have success with working on anything other than just your testosterone levels?

Is it helping repair genome damage for instance or is that completely unrelated?

What do we have to do here? Go to an anti ageing clinic or something to look at repairing cellular damage?

Testosterone won't repair your genome or cellular damage. Nothing can fix someone's genome currently. And testosterone isn't a magic bullet (cream/injection, etc). It will fix low total/free testosterone. Like the other guy said it didn't work for him. Taking for years in high doses is the wrong approach anyway. That causes its own problems. Hormone therapy is more complicated than just injecting something into yourself. Your hormones are akin to a spider web and if you touch one part then the rest move too. It requires a doctor who can help to balance and manage all of your hormones. Broscience will make things so much worse. Guys do not like to hear that, but it's the truth and the way it is. Your body is much more complex than 1 hormone (or supplement or drug) fixing your problems.

The reason why I've had my own success is that I've methodically been fixing the deficiencies as I find them. Some are "invisible" and can only be brought to light by blood tests. I had sexual dysfunction since taking Accutane. I went to the doctor and testosterone was low and was obvious. So I fixed that, then I looked at other hormones because I wanted to keep finding an incremental "better" than what I was currently feeling. I found DHEA, DHT, Prolactin, Insulin, and lately Thyroid all had problems. Every time I fixed something, I would get blood tests all over again and have to re-balance medications that I was taking. That is a long, slow process, and it is 4 years and counting. It can be expensive for some depending on what tests you need to get. But that is what is necessary and it really is that complicated. You have to fight your way out.

You could go to an anti-aging clinic. In the US, that term is falling out of use because it carries a vain and negative connotation. Sometimes they are called hormone clinics, mens' clinics, or TRT clinics. Look for good reviews. If they try to lock you into contracts for treatments then that is generally a bad sign. If they know what they are doing then they will check more than your testosterone levels. You have to pay for that care and health insurance here won't cover it, but my health and well-being is worth that to my family and I. If I had let these problems go then I could have developed diabetes or heart disease or who knows what else and I would be wishing that my care only cost what I pay now.

As far as your genome, there is the potential and promise of things like CRISPR, but it's too unproven right now in my opinion. There is no scientific proof that it yet works - or worse doesn't cause other problems. You buy a kit online, inject the liquid, and it alters your DNA based on their research of what to alter. But there is no long-term data. It could very well "fix" something that is broken, but then inadvertently do God knows what to other parts of your DNA and then you have even worse problems appear years later. Sound familiar?.I'm not against it, I just think that it needs to be studied a LOT more in order to determine that it is absolutely safe to use. I don't know about you, but my goal is to be healthier long-term, not just hope for the best.

Good points Jason especially with hormones. Its never simple. I'm wondering, if Clomid was ever suggested to you as a treatment? And true about these novel treatments, especially messing around with DNA. Who knows what kind of untoward effects this may have.

1 hour ago, mikez said:

Good points Jason especially with hormones. Its never simple. I'm wondering, if Clomid was ever suggested to you as a treatment? And true about these novel treatments, especially messing around with DNA. Who knows what kind of untoward effects this may have.

No, I am primary. Clomid is typically tried when a patient has secondary hypogonadism. What happens is that there is a problem with your pituitary or thyroid and the "signals" (primarily Lutenizing Hormone) are not being sent to the testicles telling the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. You would know if you are secondary if your LH and FSH are low.

Primary hypogonadism is simply "testicular failure" - usually injury, infection, TBI, opiate use, SSRIs, or unknown. The signals are being sent but the Leydig cells don't respond or never receive the signals. LH and FSH will be normal or high because your body is trying to overcompensate by sending a stronger signal to the testicles to try to force them into working.

Short-term Clomid can sometimes "reboot" that process for secondary patients but in truth it doesn't work a lot of the time. Part of the problem is that doctors overdose it. And patients generally don't feel that great on it. It also can more than double your estrogens making you really moody, emotional, and bloated.

2 hours ago, Jason3 said:

No, I am primary. Clomid is typically tried when a patient has secondary hypogonadism. What happens is that there is a problem with your pituitary or thyroid and the "signals" (primarily Lutenizing Hormone) are not being sent to the testicles telling the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. You would know if you are secondary if your LH and FSH are low.

Primary hypogonadism is simply "testicular failure" - usually injury, infection, TBI, opiate use, SSRIs, or unknown. The signals are being sent but the Leydig cells don't respond or never receive the signals. LH and FSH will be normal or high because your body is trying to overcompensate by sending a stronger signal to the testicles to try to force them into working.

Short-term Clomid can sometimes "reboot" that process for secondary patients but in truth it doesn't work a lot of the time. Part of the problem is that doctors overdose it. And patients generally don't feel that great on it. It also can more than double your estrogens making you really moody, emotional, and bloated.

Oh I didn't know you were primary. You likely stated your LH levels were high before and I missed that.. my bad.

Yes, with Clomid I actually meant as a long term treatment in lower doses (e.g. 12.5mg E3D), but given you're primary, that of course explains why it isn't suitable.

Thanks for the response.

23 hours ago, marshl1 said:

I think that's a great idea. How are you finding the zero vitamin A diet? It's difficult isn't it

Well mine as yet is not so extreme as in the book. I started about 2-3 weeks ago and I consume, at home, rice, corned beef, steak, cauliflower, bread, coffee, olive oil. Planning to stop bread (I eat more of it now than before). At work I have less control as I eat prepared food, but I try to limit it to rice, bread and beef or pork.
I don't find it that hard, also my stomach didn' t ache since the start of the diet, while it happened quite often before.

Question for Jason3

what are your thoughts on the video 8 tips to reversing Accutane side effects?

Do you think it could work, some of it is good, none of it is good?

Is it even too late to attempt the protocol if youre 20 years after taking Accutane?

The big question - if youve got genome or cellular damage no amount of detoxing is going to help at this stage?

please share your thoughts

@Dubya_B
@ACCUiTy_drANE
Maybe it wasnt bacteria. This is what I mean, or have been looking at.
Could be wrong though.

Prenatal exposure to antifungal medication may change anogenital distance in male offspring: a preliminary study

antifungal medication during pregnancy may affect the masculinization of male offspring.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5480178/

Fungistatic activity of all-trans retinoic acid against ... - NCBI - NIH

12 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Question for Jason3

what are your thoughts on the video 8 tips to reversing Accutane side effects?

Do you think it could work, some of it is good, none of it is good?

Is it even too late to attempt the protocol if youre 20 years after taking Accutane?

The big question - if youve got genome or cellular damage no amount of detoxing is going to help at this stage?

please share your thoughts

If 20 years dont helped, than some plant extracts wont help, too.

Or is here someone who tried this 8 tips & it had helped?

10 minutes ago, Kolonie said:

If 20 years dont helped, than some plant extracts wont help, too.

Or is here someone who tried this 8 tips & it had helped?

I agree with your logic. I have not seen the video, but Im skeptical of results. Natural remedies can help with minor problems - but they can only do so much.

First you need to determine if you have a deficiency. Blood tests. Then look for the cause. More tests and reading (both, not just guessing from reading). Then you try to correct it.

TrueJustice,
Detoxing works - look at what NAC does to your liver. Its a miracle-worker. Highly recommend NAC just for general health BTW - Jarrow NAC Sustain.

But if your genome is damaged then no detoxing is going to fix that because its at a much lower level so to speak. Its the very encoding that determines how your body assembles itself. Damage that, and from then on your body is using bad prices to put itself together when replacing cells. Imagine you are a Lego kit and you are using broken/deformed/incorrect pieces. It is not going to work right.

Is there written in the manual that the side effects can be permanent?
I dont have the manual any more.

And when its not, than is it possible to proceed against the manufacturer firm or is it hopeless?

33 minutes ago, Kolonie said:

Is there written in the manual that the side effects can be permanent?
I dont have the manual any more.

And when its not, than is it possible to proceed against the manufacturer firm or is it hopeless?

I don't remember any mention of side-effects being permanent, but it was decades ago when I last had a copy.

I think it would be difficult to go after Roche. You would need to get a product insert that was in circulation at the time you took Accutane. I took it 20 years ago so my copy would be different from yours.

Then you have to prove beyond a doubt that you didn't have any of these problems before you took it. The onus would be on us to prove we didn't have a condition beforehand, not that we had it after. Subtle but important difference.That's nearly impossible because it's not like you are checked for sexual dysfunction, IBS, whatever beforehand - it just isn't routine. Some initial wins to patients suffering were reversed because of this.

And there is the statute of limitations. In many states in the US, it's just a few years. So as soon as you start having symptoms (or a new side effect is formally recognized) you only have that long to bring a case and everyone is likely well past that at this point.

I don't mean to be a downer, but drug manufacturers are very, very good at winning cases. They have to be to stay in business and keep releasing poison like this onto the world to turn a profit.

On 6/15/2018 at 10:11 AM, Jason3 said:

No, I am primary. Clomid is typically tried when a patient has secondary hypogonadism. What happens is that there is a problem with your pituitary or thyroid and the "signals" (primarily Lutenizing Hormone) are not being sent to the testicles telling the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. You would know if you are secondary if your LH and FSH are low.

Primary hypogonadism is simply "testicular failure" - usually injury, infection, TBI, opiate use, SSRIs, or unknown. The signals are being sent but the Leydig cells don't respond or never receive the signals. LH and FSH will be normal or high because your body is trying to overcompensate by sending a stronger signal to the testicles to try to force them into working.

Short-term Clomid can sometimes "reboot" that process for secondary patients but in truth it doesn't work a lot of the time. Part of the problem is that doctors overdose it. And patients generally don't feel that great on it. It also can more than double your estrogens making you really moody, emotional, and bloated.

interesting as FSH was high for me.. LH was normal i believe

8 hours ago, Kolonie said:

Is there written in the manual that the side effects can be permanent?
I dont have the manual any more.

And when its not, than is it possible to proceed against the manufacturer firm or is it hopeless?

We cant sue for things like:

thinning hair
dry skin
fatigue
eye floaters
sebum loss
excess sweating
unwanted body hair
lack of bile flow
depression
loss of quality of life

I could go on....

They know about us, make no mistake about it, are they interested in helping even in the slightest? Not to my knowledge- helping would be an admission of guilt anyway!

Unless they had a hand in putting the 8 tips video together.....Im curious on the background with that video, like how did they come to believe the combination of those supplements actually work? - whos actually had success doing it, things like that....

11 hours ago, Jason3 said:

I agree with your logic. I have not seen the video, but Im skeptical of results. Natural remedies can help with minor problems - but they can only do so much.

First you need to determine if you have a deficiency. Blood tests. Then look for the cause. More tests and reading (both, not just guessing from reading). Then you try to correct it.

TrueJustice,
Detoxing works - look at what NAC does to your liver. Its a miracle-worker. Highly recommend NAC just for general health BTW - Jarrow NAC Sustain.

But if your genome is damaged then no detoxing is going to fix that because its at a much lower level so to speak. Its the very encoding that determines how your body assembles itself. Damage that, and from then on your body is using bad prices to put itself together when replacing cells. Imagine you are a Lego kit and you are using broken/deformed/incorrect pieces. It is not going to work right.

Jason3 - would you rate NAC over Tudca for repairing the Liver?

I think Ive used NAC before, no that Im adverse to using again. Im very much interested in Tudca though as its listed in the 8 tips Accutane detox video!!

Read the comments section of this blog:

https://www.healthextremist.com/how-i-got-vitamin-a-toxicity/

there are over 600 comments talking about people who avoided vitamin A for 1+ years and they got their health back. 1 or 2 of the people mentioned Accutane. Only about 2 people in the comments section were not able to recover