I have been reading this thread page per page during the last few months. I managed to read only a small part because so much has been written, but I am happy that the discussion is still going on in the search for answers.

I took Accutane 10 years ago and that's when I actually registered my account on this forum. I had no idea back then what trouble I was getting into. My acne problem was gone and they didn't return back. However, my personality and sanity have also gone with my acne, and they also never returned to how they were before I started taking Accutane.

I was a sociable person before, enjoyed spending time with my friends, going out. I had a girlfriend and life was good, future ahead of me. I was 18 years old back then. However, soon after taking Accutane, my personality started to change and I didn't really notice the change until much later. And even then, it took time to make the connection between Accutane and these changes.

I became much more introverted, socially awkward, with a gradual increase in anxiety over the last few years. In the worst time I had such debilitating anxiety that I couldn't leave my apartment. Sometimes I was hungry the whole day because I couldn't get the courage to go to the market.

However, that was a period when I finished college and didn't have a job yet. After many resumes sent and months passed, I managed to get a pretty good job, but loaded with stress. That's a whole other story, but I am dedicated to not failing in this job. My ideal goal is to thrive in that environment, but if that doesn't really work out, I want to stick there at least for a year or two, before starting to look for a better position.

After taking Accutane, everything I do seems to take much more effort than it seems to be the case with other people. I am constantly very tired, I enjoyed exercise before, but noways I am wrecked for days after exercising. This combined with very high amount of stress at my current work, made me look for answers and help.

I have been taking Armodafinil for the last three or four years. It helps with the fatigue, but it makes me even more robotic and cold. It doesn't really help with anxiety, but it's much better than coffee for me personally. Caffeine wrecks me in incredibly small amounts. Lately the whole Armodafinil thing is getting out of hand and it is becoming too expensive to maintain. I currently take 450 mg daily, which is 3x the usual dose that most people need.

I have also been diagnosed with depressive anxiety disorder and got Xanax for it. Xanax was a great relief for me. I never realized how filled I was with anxiety until taking it for the first time. It lifted all that weight off my shoulders and I had so much energy I could cry from happiness. However, with benzos that's always a slippery slope of course. I read a lot about benzo withdrawal, so I never really took Xanax seriously as something that will solve my problems. It's a great tool when there is really no other way out, but that's about it.

For the last year or two, I have been taking multivitamin pills daily and fish oil capsules. I remember reading here that vitamin A supplementation and omega 3 fatty acids can lead to negative effects with people who took Accutane, so I discontinued both for a while. I didn't really feel any different so I started taking them again.

I also started to experiment with ketogenic diet a few months ago. I noticed I feel better during the day when I am on keto diet, compared to a carb rich diet which had me often crashing and having sugar cravings. On keto I can literally drink a cup of olive oil and have energy throughout most of the day.

Another huge benefit of going keto is that my bowels started to function much more normally than before. When on a normal diet, I produced such an amount of gas it was ridiculous. It started with beans, but later I got the same effect with potatoes, cabbage, pasta, rice and so on. I often had diarrhea or at least very soft stool. I also had problems with bloating (chest area) and/or stomach acid that often resulted in severe pain that couldn't be relieved in any way for at least an hour or two. It could also be bile related but I never managed to exactly pinpoint what was going on. However, keto solved all of those problems.

Before employment, I had to do some medical examinations. My TSH levels were normal. I can't remember if anything else was really measured what could be in some way related to Accutane side effects. Only other thing is that the abdominal ultrasound showed that I have a somewhat adipose liver. The doctor said that more physical exercise and a healthier diet should take care of that. This was before starting my keto regime, so I'm really interested in what the tests will show next year.

As for other potentially relevant info, I have tinnitus. I am allergic to ragweed and possibly penicillin. I had mononucleosis as a child, combined with meningoencephalitis (had to take Carbamazepine for years after that, slowly reducing the dosage). I never had herpes. My hair got very thin and weak after Accutane and I also have problems with vision. My eyes are very dry and sensitive to light, wind. I noticed it also has a lot to do with anxiety, i.e. it makes it much worse.

I'm sorry for the long post but I wanted to include everything that seemed relevant in hopes that it could be helpful in recognizing patterns among sufferers of long term Accutane side effects.

I'm not sure about my further plans to alleviate symptoms. I will continue reading this thread and I plan to try glycine supplementation as I saw that it was helpful in some cases. Any suggestions for tests or treatment methods as well as questions are welcome.

19 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Yep same - after tane just a mess.

but you can either add fuel to the fire by maintaining a crap diet or you can be vigilant and do your best.... I've got a job and and I need to perform and would like to keep it, in my mind if eating more sensibly equates to less irritability than I'm all for it, especially as I'm in sales and need to talk to a lot of people!!

After 20 years I'm at that point, I just trade one thing for another - life is not the same after tane that's for sure....maybe soon though we'll put all of this behind us....

Yea man I hear u on that one
i just cut bread out of my diet again and added eggs
tryijg to heal my liver and more it's a nightmare

i know food is key though that's why I eat better
just frustrating

On 9/2/2017 at 9:13 PM, Polypore said:

I have been reading this thread page per page during the last few months. I managed to read only a small part because so much has been written, but I am happy that the discussion is still going on in the search for answers.

I took Accutane 10 years ago and that's when I actually registered my account on this forum. I had no idea back then what trouble I was getting into. My acne problem was gone and they didn't return back. However, my personality and sanity have also gone with my acne, and they also never returned to how they were before I started taking Accutane.

I was a sociable person before, enjoyed spending time with my friends, going out. I had a girlfriend and life was good, future ahead of me. I was 18 years old back then. However, soon after taking Accutane, my personality started to change and I didn't really notice the change until much later. And even then, it took time to make the connection between Accutane and these changes.

I became much more introverted, socially awkward, with a gradual increase in anxiety over the last few years. In the worst time I had such debilitating anxiety that I couldn't leave my apartment. Sometimes I was hungry the whole day because I couldn't get the courage to go to the market.

However, that was a period when I finished college and didn't have a job yet. After many resumes sent and months passed, I managed to get a pretty good job, but loaded with stress. That's a whole other story, but I am dedicated to not failing in this job. My ideal goal is to thrive in that environment, but if that doesn't really work out, I want to stick there at least for a year or two, before starting to look for a better position.

After taking Accutane, everything I do seems to take much more effort than it seems to be the case with other people. I am constantly very tired, I enjoyed exercise before, but noways I am wrecked for days after exercising. This combined with very high amount of stress at my current work, made me look for answers and help.

I have been taking Armodafinil for the last three or four years. It helps with the fatigue, but it makes me even more robotic and cold. It doesn't really help with anxiety, but it's much better than coffee for me personally. Caffeine wrecks me in incredibly small amounts. Lately the whole Armodafinil thing is getting out of hand and it is becoming too expensive to maintain. I currently take 450 mg daily, which is 3x the usual dose that most people need.

I have also been diagnosed with depressive anxiety disorder and got Xanax for it. Xanax was a great relief for me. I never realized how filled I was with anxiety until taking it for the first time. It lifted all that weight off my shoulders and I had so much energy I could cry from happiness. However, with benzos that's always a slippery slope of course. I read a lot about benzo withdrawal, so I never really took Xanax seriously as something that will solve my problems. It's a great tool when there is really no other way out, but that's about it.

For the last year or two, I have been taking multivitamin pills daily and fish oil capsules. I remember reading here that vitamin A supplementation and omega 3 fatty acids can lead to negative effects with people who took Accutane, so I discontinued both for a while. I didn't really feel any different so I started taking them again.

I also started to experiment with ketogenic diet a few months ago. I noticed I feel better during the day when I am on keto diet, compared to a carb rich diet which had me often crashing and having sugar cravings. On keto I can literally drink a cup of olive oil and have energy throughout most of the day.

Another huge benefit of going keto is that my bowels started to function much more normally than before. When on a normal diet, I produced such an amount of gas it was ridiculous. It started with beans, but later I got the same effect with potatoes, cabbage, pasta, rice and so on. I often had diarrhea or at least very soft stool. I also had problems with bloating (chest area) and/or stomach acid that often resulted in severe pain that couldn't be relieved in any way for at least an hour or two. It could also be bile related but I never managed to exactly pinpoint what was going on. However, keto solved all of those problems.

Before employment, I had to do some medical examinations. My TSH levels were normal. I can't remember if anything else was really measured what could be in some way related to Accutane side effects. Only other thing is that the abdominal ultrasound showed that I have a somewhat adipose liver. The doctor said that more physical exercise and a healthier diet should take care of that. This was before starting my keto regime, so I'm really interested in what the tests will show next year.

As for other potentially relevant info, I have tinnitus. I am allergic to ragweed and possibly penicillin. I had mononucleosis as a child, combined with meningoencephalitis (had to take Carbamazepine for years after that, slowly reducing the dosage). I never had herpes. My hair got very thin and weak after Accutane and I also have problems with vision. My eyes are very dry and sensitive to light, wind. I noticed it also has a lot to do with anxiety, i.e. it makes it much worse.

I'm sorry for the long post but I wanted to include everything that seemed relevant in hopes that it could be helpful in recognizing patterns among sufferers of long term Accutane side effects.

I'm not sure about my further plans to alleviate symptoms. I will continue reading this thread and I plan to try glycine supplementation as I saw that it was helpful in some cases. Any suggestions for tests or treatment methods as well as questions are welcome.

 

I think keto should help a ton. It has been proven to help with neurogenesis/neuroplasticity, which is important when recovering from changes in brain metabolism, which is what I believe Accutane causes, and it is these changes in brain metabolism that cause everything from hormonal imbalances to depression and anxiety to IBS. 

If you look through my post history, you will see all of research that I have done on the topic, which personally I think is worth the read

14 hours ago, Nemesisbrady said:

Yea man I hear u on that one
i just cut bread out of my diet again and added eggs
tryijg to heal my liver and more it's a nightmare

i know food is key though that's why I eat better
just frustrating 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22307488

found this cool study about zinc and liver disease, you might find it interesting  

3 hours ago, Fchawk said:

I think keto should help a ton. It has been proven to help with neurogenesis/neuroplasticity, which is important when recovering from changes in brain metabolism, which is what I believe Accutane causes, and it is these changes in brain metabolism that cause everything from hormonal imbalances to depression and anxiety to IBS. 

If you look through my post history, you will see all of research that I have done on the topic, which personally I think is worth the read https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22307488

found this cool study about zinc and liver disease, you might find it interesting  

Thank u I'm just getting back up now
in one much pain
does anyone else wake up with crusted mucus eyes painful and crusty nose dry dry mouth 

10 hours ago, Fchawk said:

I think keto should help a ton. It has been proven to help with neurogenesis/neuroplasticity, which is important when recovering from changes in brain metabolism, which is what I believe Accutane causes, and it is these changes in brain metabolism that cause everything from hormonal imbalances to depression and anxiety to IBS. 

If you look through my post history, you will see all of research that I have done on the topic, which personally I think is worth the read https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22307488

found this cool study about zinc and liver disease, you might find it interesting  

As a specialist, who's field is "Brain Metabolism"??

Endocrinologist, Neurologist?

Does anyone know?

It's still a relatively unknown issue. I've run hyper- and hypo- metabolism across both neuro and endo, and they have a general idea about it, but that's it. They don't have any experience or solid data they can refer to regarding it. I've found that they don't do well with symptom only, unless its a common textbook case, they need signs as well.

I'm assuming Neuro, since they do spect scans, and the issue I've read arises from the brain (hypothalamus), but they are not going to run one just off of a patients suggestion (i've tried).

I've posted some youtube videos regarding it. Youtube Steve Fawkes, he seems really knowledgeable on this new issue.

36 minutes ago, macleod said:

It's still a relatively unknown issue. I've run hyper- and hypo- metabolism across both neuro and endo, and they have a general idea about it, but that's it. They don't have any experience or solid data they can refer to regarding it. I've found that they don't do well with symptom only, unless its a common textbook case, they need signs as well.

I'm assuming Neuro, since they do spect scans, and the issue I've read arises from the brain (hypothalamus), but they are not going to run one just off of a patients suggestion (i've tried).

I've posted some youtube videos regarding it. Youtube Steve Fawkes, he seems really knowledgeable on this new issue.

Cool - appreciate the feedback.

Im hesitant to chuck another supplement into the equation but I just looked up "brain metabolism supplements" and a cognitive supplement that keeps coming up is "Vinpocetine" apparently it helps blood flow and neural inflammation amongst other things!!

Might be worth investigating....

Quick question

Does anyone else turn super red after lightly scratching their faces, arms, legs?

I literally scratched my face today and my friend was like "why the fuck is your forehead so red?"

Another link to inflammation?

12 hours ago, Colinboko said:

Quick question

Does anyone else turn super red after lightly scratching their faces, arms, legs?

I literally scratched my face today and my friend was like "why the fuck is your forehead so red?"

Another link to inflammation?

Yes - I know exactly what you mean. I think, it is because the skin is super sensitive after Accutane.

13 hours ago, Colinboko said:

Quick question

Does anyone else turn super red after lightly scratching their faces, arms, legs?

I literally scratched my face today and my friend was like "why the fuck is your forehead so red?"

Another link to inflammation?

I get this a lot was told urticaria dermatapgaphisim. And can't treat it because dryness is side effect antihistamine
I get so itchy my back looks like I just had sex

On 9/2/2017 at 7:13 AM, Polypore said:

I have been reading this thread page per page during the last few months. I managed to read only a small part because so much has been written, but I am happy that the discussion is still going on in the search for answers.

I took Accutane 10 years ago and that's when I actually registered my account on this forum. I had no idea back then what trouble I was getting into. My acne problem was gone and they didn't return back. However, my personality and sanity have also gone with my acne, and they also never returned to how they were before I started taking Accutane.
...

My life has been a lot like that. Just wanted to say. It's impossible to survive without dopaminergics, but I find even adding gaba-ergics on top sometimes, there's still something not right. Then it morphs into an endless fight against tolerance. Somewhere between the hypothalamus/pituitary, hippocampus and maybe cholinergic system the brain got rewired. My gut is wrecked too.

You still need a minimum vitamin A but no one can prove if we inherited real problems metabolizing/transporting it. I only saw one blog where some guy helped a condition by doing a retinol-free diet, but it's fishy. The fish oil is volatile and you should only take if it substantially helps you--don't take it on faith--and you're better off getting from fish.

On 8/31/2017 at 8:35 PM, guitarman01 said:

I think we could live with some of the physical side effects, its the mental ones we cannot tolerate. Thats why you should consider getting the MRI, especially if you never had one. I wouldnt recommend it for everyone, but for the people that are getting older that are still affected, we need to see if something is going on.

Yeah my body is destroyed but I could tolerate life if head were fixed. I had 1 or 2 brain MRI (that's memory problems for you) and came back normal. I was convinced it would find something.

On 9/1/2017 at 6:13 PM, Nemesisbrady said:

I'm convinced I'm lacking vitamin a
carrits and veggies don't give u the a u need retinol one
and I avoid dairy and eggs
i have severe dry eyes
should I eat liver and see what happens....

Liver didn't fix my dry eyes but it's worth a try for anything. Eggs only helped slight. Lysine HCl 3-4g helped my dry eyes the most. Websites put it down to herpes simplex but there's more to it. Helps anxiety and connective tissue.

8 hours ago, feastofvermin said:

My life has been a lot like that. Just wanted to say. It's impossible to survive without dopaminergics, but I find even adding gaba-ergics on top sometimes, there's still something not right. Then it morphs into an endless fight against tolerance. Somewhere between the hypothalamus/pituitary, hippocampus and maybe cholinergic system the brain got rewired. My gut is wrecked too.

You still need a minimum vitamin A but no one can prove if we inherited real problems metabolizing/transporting it. I only saw one blog where some guy helped a condition by doing a retinol-free diet, but it's fishy. The fish oil is volatile and you should only take if it substantially helps you--don't take it on faith--and you're better off getting from fish.

And conversely there were reports of doctors putting troubled Accutane patients on Vit A to help fix unwanted side effects so who would know what the answer is with Vit A??

And then you could ask has our other fat soluble vitamins been fucked up too - Vit D/K/E etc....

What a mess....

On 8/29/2017 at 0:42 PM, mariovitali said:

@guitarman01 @tanedout

Yet one more patient with CFS with Liver Fibrosis (F2 to F3) :

So I take it these patients are getting fibroscans ordered by their doctor with no other signs of liver inflammation or injury such as elevated liver enzymes? This seems to be a pretty mild elevation, especially given the person's age. I do believe in the gut-liver-brain axis, but this elevation is very mild,  one kpa point lower and it would be considered close to normal.
Is it mainly gastroenterologists ordering these tests?
How easily are the doctors convinced to run this scan or even justify it, if all other liver function tests are normal?

2 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

And conversely there were reports of doctors putting troubled Accutane patients on Vit A to help fix unwanted side effects so who would know what the answer is with Vit A??

And then you could ask has our other fat soluble vitamins been fucked up too - Vit D/K/E etc....

What a mess....

Yeh it causes a functional vitamin A deficiency around time of exposure, had that, but if it persists is a different story. My guess before was retinol or retinal dehydrogenase enzymes stay upregulated, but there's no evidence. Just as well be the opposite or have nothing direct to do with vitamin A or be indirect at best. I'm leaning toward no relation and it's all effects of acute organ and receptor damage and gene expression. I don't think any of those vitamins affect cells and genes in any way that could reverse this.

Hey guys,

Have any of you in the states been seen by the Mayo Clinic?

I got an appointment set up at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester later this month, which is supposed to be the best hospital in the country. I'm assuming if they can't find anything, the medical field is absolutely useless for me.

The only concern I have is that I was sent a package for my stay and the first day consists of blood work, but the following days are scheduled with the department of psychiatry, a visit with a Fybromyalgia and a chronic fatigue specialist.

So in essence based on the symptoms I mentioned to them even before having seen me are already going to be diagnosed as those.

My issue is that being diagnosed with fybro or CFS won't help because those are two diagnosis that doctors have no idea how it's caused or how to treat it other than with anti-depressants or immunosuppressants. It's pretty much a bullshit label that's given to people when they don't know what the hell is going on.

I dont need need a diagnosis to tell me I'm sick; I already know this. I need treatment that will help and if at best they can offer antidepressants or immunosuppressants, both of which I've taken in the past with no help, then it's probably a waste of my time and money to keep going to the doctor.

Unless i I get diagnosed with Chrons, which is a high probability considering my digestion has been absolutely horrible in the past month, then the doctors really can't help.

Im curious to know when most people developed depression/anhedonia post Tane. Was it months or years later. I never suffered from depression even after my health declined, but I've noticed that lately and more frequently I've become more numb and detached from the people and events around me. I think at a certain point the body because so over stressed constantly dealing with these health issues that the mind just shuts down mentally and you lose the ability to feel. Anyways, I hope this isn't the case since a lot of you have depression but with no health issues and vice versa.

Ill give an update with any progress but I'm also starting to get to the point that I'm so angry that I have to deal with this everyday and possibly for the rest of my life that I feel somone has to be held accountable. It's unfair that as teenagers or young adults we were wrongly led to believe that we would be ok and told to make a decision that we could not comprehend would affect us for the rest of our lives. I come from the United States where individual freedom of choice is held to such a high regard. I ultimately made the unwise decision to take the drug but the drug should have never been made available in the first place by the government and for that I also blame the system that placed profits over an individual's well being. I know we may be scattered across the globe but I know there are many of us who are suffering because of this. If in the end we can't help ourselves at least we can work on getting this drug banned once and for all. Damn, if this drug was banned back in 2009 when it should have been, then a lot of us wouldn't be dealing with this shit.

2 hours ago, feastofvermin said:

5 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

And conversely there were reports of doctors putting troubled Accutane patients on Vit A to help fix unwanted side effects so who would know what the answer is with Vit A??

And then you could ask has our other fat soluble vitamins been fucked up too - Vit D/K/E etc....

What a mess....

Yeh it causes a functional vitamin A deficiency around time of exposure, had that, but if it persists is a different story. My guess before was retinol or retinal dehydrogenase enzymes stay upregulated, but there's no evidence. Just as well be the opposite or have nothing direct to do with vitamin A or be indirect at best. I'm leaning toward no relation and it's all effects of acute organ and receptor damage and gene expression. I don't think any of those vitamins affect cells and genes in any way that could reverse this.

It would be soooo much easier wouldn't it, if after tane we could get a simple test for example and all you had to do was supplement with Vit A or D and everything would go back to normal again but no Accutane had to fuck us up at a deeper level didn't it, a level where nothing can really be detected- it almost sounds like a science fiction movie doesn't it....

Unfortunately we're just left to experiment with food, supplements and various drugs - all without ever knowing what the true cause is....

So to those asking to take Vit A?, you'll have to just experiment, I take it in small doses in my Omega Oil, and like others on here I don't feel better or worse for taking it this way, I take the oil on the basis that it's good for brain health - nothing more nothing less, I simply hope it's doing me good!!

I think I tried supplement 9567 ( Vit A ) by itself and didn't notice anything - you may have a different experience with it?

8 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

I think I tried supplement 9567 ( Vit A ) by itself and didn't notice anything - you may have a different experience with it?

Yep when I take it I feel like hell on that day and the next, but over longer it helps cognition vs not supplementing it. I've taken up to 150,000IU retinyl palmitate, pound of liver in a day. (Also did 25,000IU Vit D, 30mg K2, etc.)

The retinol just needs to be available on demand to the brain so NGF can convert it to retinoic acid for nerve/neuron growth and differentiation. I doubt anyone needs more than 5,000IU a day unless there's a transport issue of the retinol to the brain, and huge doses is not a smart way to bypass conversion fail imo if that even happens. That's (also steroid conversions) its most positive role and it might not even have that much to do with the lasting syndrome.

Never heard of this until today:

Antidepressant Effects of Abscisic Acid Mediated by the Downregulation of Corticotrophin-Releasing Hormone Gene Expression in Rats

Abstract

Background:

Corticotrophin-releasing hormone (CRH) is considered to be the central driving force of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, which plays a key role in the stress response and depression. Clinical reports have suggested that excess retinoic acid (RA) is associated with depression. Abscisic acid (ABA) and RA are direct derivatives of carotenoids and share a similar molecular structure. Here, we proposed that ABA also plays a role in the regulation of CRH activity sharing with the RA signaling pathway.

Methods:

[₃H]-ABA radioimmunoassay demonstrated that the hypothalamus of rats shows the highest concentration of ABA compared with the cortex and the hippocampus under basal conditions.

Results:

Under acute stress, ABA concentrations increased in the serum, but decreased in the hypothalamus and were accompanied by increased corticosterone in the serum and c-fos expression in the hypothalamus. Moreover, chronic ABA administration increased sucrose intake and decreased the mRNA expression of CRH and retinoic acid receptor alpha (RAR) in the hypothalamus of rats. Furthermore, ABA improved the symptom of chronic unpredictable mild stress in model rats, as indicated by increased sucrose intake, increased swimming in the forced swim test, and reduced mRNA expression of CRH and RAR in the rat hypothalamus. In vitro, CRH expression decreased after ABA treatment across different neural cells. In BE(2)-C cells, ABA inhibited a series of retinoid receptor expression, including RAR, a receptor that could facilitate CRH expression directly.

Conclusions:

These results suggest that ABA may play a role in the pathogenesis of depression by downregulating CRH mRNA expression shared with the RA signaling pathway.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4360223/

Quote

CUMS, which is an established effective model that mimics the pathogenesis of depression (Willner, 1997), was utilized in the present study to investigate the antidepressant effects of ABA. Consistent with the results of previous studies (Wu et al., 2007; Chen et al., 2008; Ge et al., 2013), CUMS successfully decreased sucrose intake and increased immobility in the FST in rats. Excitingly, ABA improved these depression-like behaviors. Anhedonia is a core symptom of depression and is most commonly used to assess depression-like behavior in rodents using sucrose intake (i.e., the sucrose solution ingested corrected for body weight) or sucrose preference (i.e., the sucrose solution/total liquid; Duncko et al., 2001; Der-Avakian and Markou, 2012). In this study, ABA reversed the decreased sucrose intake in the CUMS rats, although ABA could not normalize the sucrose intake levels as the controls.

...

Consistent with the results of the behavior tests, ABA normalized the CRH mRNA expression in the hypothalamus to the control levels, and showed a decreased tendency in serum corticosterone levels. These results demonstrate that the effects of ABA occur at the level of the hypothalamus to inhibit HPA axis drive and corticosterone output.

13 hours ago, feastofvermin said:

Yep when I take it I feel like hell on that day and the next, but over longer it helps cognition vs not supplementing it. I've taken up to 150,000IU retinyl palmitate, pound of liver in a day. (Also did 25,000IU Vit D, 30mg K2, etc.)

The retinol just needs to be available on demand to the brain so NGF can convert it to retinoic acid for nerve/neuron growth and differentiation. I doubt anyone needs more than 5,000IU a day unless there's a transport issue of the retinol to the brain, and huge doses is not a smart way to bypass conversion fail imo if that even happens. That's (also steroid conversions) its most positive role and it might not even have that much to do with the lasting syndrome.

Yeah ive had similar experience too.

Interesting that I can also feel worse when taking Zinc - you take it as it's vital for so many processes but boy it can make you feel like crap too!

Makes you wonder if our biggest issue isn't lack of say Vit A or D or Zinc, but more a problem of signalling after tane!!

How to fix that though I have no clue. That's a Hypothalamus or Pituitary issue that needs an expert to delve into...

57 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Yeah ive had similar experience too.

Interesting that I can also feel worse when taking Zinc - you take it as it's vital for so many processes but boy it can make you feel like crap too!

Makes you wonder if our biggest issue isn't lack of say Vit A or D or Zinc, but more a problem of signalling after tane!!

How to fix that though I have no clue. That's a Hypothalamus or Pituitary issue that needs an expert to delve into...

@TrueJusticeyou need to get more testing done. Especially cause we have almost identical symptoms. Get an ANA screen at least

Yep it's on the to do list....

last month amalgams all removed with teeth, last few weeks varicose vein issues, this week eyes tested ( nothing major found, slight sun damage etc ) light sensitivity comes with age they say, I wasn't there to bring up tane so I didn't go there

Soon there'll be more blood tests for cholesterol but somewhere in there I'm either pursuing seeing a Neurologist or delving into Autoimmune work - I don't know which one first??

I'm not an endocrinologist but I can't find a reason why macleod's study on CRH and ATRA wouldn't hold up.

The confusing part is that accutane measurements in people showed lowered ACTH central release. BUT retinoic acid acts on POMC between CRH and ACTH to do this (and it's more effective on pituitary tumors than normal cells), so I see nothing preventing CRH from upregulating even though ACTH goes down or stays the same to compensate. Then you stop the drug and CRH is upregulated, presumably due to insensitivity of the feedback receptors in the hypothalamus, but maybe other compensatory mechanisms.

Elevated CRH alone or elevated sensitivity on its own causes problems. One of the best candidates imo for some types of depression is dynorphins and kappa opioid receptors. They give depression, frequent urination, lowered body temp. CRH causes dynorphin release and kappa opioid receptor activation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819621/

The cholinergic system could also be involved, but it's so complicated I can't even tell which way my receptors might be going.

Abscisic acid in the study I posted could downregulate CRH, and you could speculate the body evolved to consume it in foods alongside beta-carotene and retinol to keep balance. But the dosage is a complete unknown, there might be nowhere near enough in foods, and from the study it might not undo all the symptoms. There's even possibility that lowering CRH makes you feel like crap in the short term because your body's increased reliance on glucocorticoids and norepinephrine.