36 minutes ago, PmcHeal said:

Thanks ya, you do good research interesting study.It would be great to finally know about the storage theory. I know probably not the be all end all solution to are problems the damage is done in other areas, but still you can't go through your whole life wondering is this shit stored in your body
and a possibility of contributing to a decreased quality of life and altered human experience.

So, this case study found that a patient previously (?) treated with Accutane had a "Histochemical examination showed a high content of vitamin A in the transitional (Ito) cells and in hepatocytes." By vitamin A, I am assuming they mean retinol. If that is the case, that does not necessarily imply that Accutane is still in the patient's body. Accutane cannot convert to retinol. So that means either 1) the patient has been supplementing with large amounts of vitamin A, or 2) the patient's body is not metabolizing vitamin A correctly, possibly due to Accutane. As a third (3rd) possibility, when the researchers say "vitamin A" they may be referring to all its metabolites too. The second choice is certainly plausible. The third choice is plausible if the participant is still on the drug or quit recently.

However, the timeline of everything in this case study is a little unclear. It notes that eventually the labs returned to normal, and that symptoms went away after quitting Accutane. So wait. Does that mean these liver abnormalities were found while the patient was on Accutane? If so, these findings simply speak to the hepatotoxic nature of the drug. If not, how shortly after treatment was this study done? Either way, the patient improved (lucky him/her). This study leads to more questions than answers. Also, perhaps I am ignorant, but why does the title of the research article seem to equate Accutane with retinol? 13-cis retinoic acid and retinol have important distinctions, especially for this type of study.

I don't see how this specific study supports the idea of long-term storage of Accutane. But if I am missing something, of course chime in.

1 hour ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

So, this case study found that a patient previously (?) treated with Accutane had a "Histochemical examination showed a high content of vitamin A in the transitional (Ito) cells and in hepatocytes." By vitamin A, I am assuming they mean retinol. If that is the case, that does not necessarily imply that Accutane is still in the patient's body. Accutane cannot convert to retinol. So that means either 1) the patient has been supplementing with large amounts of vitamin A, or 2) the patient's body is not metabolizing vitamin A correctly, possibly due to Accutane. As a third (3rd) possibility, when the researchers say "vitamin A" they may be referring to all its metabolites too. The second choice is certainly plausible. The third choice is plausible if the participant is still on the drug or quit recently.

However, the timeline of everything in this case study is a little unclear. It notes that eventually the labs returned to normal, and that symptoms went away after quitting Accutane. So wait. Does that mean these liver abnormalities were found while the patient was on Accutane? If so, these findings simply speak to the hepatotoxic nature of the drug. If not, how shortly after treatment was this study done? Either way, the patient improved (lucky him/her). This study leads to more questions than answers. Also, perhaps I am ignorant, but why does the title of the research article seem to equate Accutane with retinol? 13-cis retinoic acid and retinol have important distinctions, especially for this type of study.

I don't see how this specific study supports the idea of long-term storage of Accutane. But if I am missing something, of course chime in.

Your right ya well said.I was just saying [guitarman01,aswell as yourself] do good research in general, and that was a interesting study nonetheless. I'm not very knowledgeable in all of this, trying to learn.

Found the propecia thread that talks about feeling better when having the flu 

Haha funny story for y'all. 

So my friend was ultimately the reason I took accutane cause I saw how nicely her skin cleared up and we're both actors so clear skin is kind of important..

well when i told her i thought accutane was the reason I started feeling so funny; she just laughed and said "dude you're fine, you're just a hypochondriac" 

Within the past few weeks she started shitting blood... like no joke. Had it checked out and has been diagnosed with ulcerative colitis...

She said it's "stress induced", and I couldn't help but chuckle. 

THIS DRUG INFLAMES THE FUCK OUT OF OUR BODIES

2 hours ago, Colinboko said:

well when i told her i thought accutane was the reason I started feeling so funny; she just laughed and said "dude you're fine, you're just a hypochondriac"

Within the past few weeks she started shitting blood... like no joke. Had it checked out and has been diagnosed with ulcerative colitis...

Wow. . . Terrible irony! I can think of seven real-life acquaintances or real-life friends-of-friends who have been on Accutane. One developed IBD, another developed suicidal depression, and a third developed extreme lethargy and depression. A few years later, the third was diagnosed with an extremely rare form of brain cancer which required draining of fluid in the skull. This individual passed away two years later. The other four are fine, as far as I know.

If you think your friend will listen, let her know the manufacturer of the Accutane has admitted to the link between Accutane and Inflammatory Bowel Disease since 1984, which is supported by their own clinical trials that show the drug damages the intestines. And yes, it has been stated the disease can happen after treatment. A company that large doesn't lose multi-million dollar lawsuits for no reason. More relevant to your friend, the link between Accutane and Colitis actually has been found to be significant. I have many issues with the correlational studies done on Accutane (they're garbage), but that has to count for something.

12 hours ago, Vice-accutane said:

It is hard, but certainly far far from impossible . It only takes a few hours of research to find one . You can even order a kit online and then check if the product you received is legit with the kit .
I ordered some and will receive it in a few days, as I said I will keep you updated . I don't know if my source is the same as accuity-drane, but do your own research, there is a 185 pages long thread about NSI on longecity . Sources are discussed in there.

And, I really do not think testosterone is a " simplier " solution. I plan to try it, especially PROVIRON (not testosterone but DHT), which is banned in theUSA I haveheard?I Iive in France, but you can source anything nowadays, just be careful and always make sure the product is legit, even if it takes a test on it. Anyway it wouldbe two drastic different things with different spectrum of action . I will try both

I've been taking proviron for almost 2 weeks now along with my testosterone blast. Will update if I notice anything significant over the course of a month. Hard for me to focus cause my life is very very hectic right now.

6 hours ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

I don't see how this specific study supports the idea of long-term storage of Accutane. But if I am missing something, of course chime in.

Long term storage no. The time frame for this study seems to be 6 months. From when this person started taking Accutane and soon afterwards developed liver problems leading up to the biopsy at 6 months. My biggest takeaway from this study was they weren't even specifically looking for Accutane in the liver or knew of his usage. It resembled Vitamin A toxicity. It looked like vitamin a toxicity without having to specifically look or identify the ingested form was 13-cis.

I dont really believe Accutane has been stored in the liver myself for 20+ years for some of these guys. Other causes for long term sides seem more likely. But just in case anyone ever got to the point or needed a liver biopsy, even if it was in middle age, Id reference this study and the method used so something wasnt overlooked or missed if you only had one shot.

Also read of prednisone/corticosteroids completely stopping and reversing hair loss in individuals with CFS. Could have a correlation with us accutane peeps too. My skin was cleared and hadn't sprouted a single pimple in the first month I was on the drug... and no hair loss (or any of these side effects). Then one day all of the side effects came together.. package deal lol. That's what makes me believe it was slowly increasing my immunity until one day BAM the side effects were all triggered. (low mood, hair loss, depression, brain fog)

What I guess I'm getting at is that in my opinion all of the mega vitamin a dosing side effects went way about a week after cessation of the drug. (I.e. dry lips, flaky skin, bloody noses).I think it triggered something else that now has to be controlled.

43 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

Long term storage no. The time frame for this study seems to be 6 months. From when this person started taking Accutane and soon afterwards developed liver problems leading up to the biopsy at 6 months. My biggest takeaway from this study was they weren't even specifically looking for Accutane in the liver or knew of his usage. It resembled Vitamin A toxicity. It looked like vitamin a toxicity without having to specifically look or identify the ingested form was 13-cis.

I dont really believe Accutane has been stored in the liver myself for 20+ years for some of these guys. Other causes for long term sides seem more likely. But just in case anyone ever got to the point or needed a liver biopsy, even if it was in middle age, Id reference this study and the method used so something wasnt overlooked or missed if you only had one shot.

It would be interesting to know for sure if tane sits in liver for years, only a biopsy could determine that.

But even so, if you knew for sure what would you do about it?
Youd prob just revert to what we all use to talk about - control your Vit A intake or you'll feel even worse.

This is how we came to discuss Liver flushes and taking Tudca etc but no one has recovered this way other than one guy on YouTube.

Like I always say, it is possible that tane can fuck up your liver and give you brain issues at the same time!! I've spent so many years thinking it's just one area that if I can repair all issues will go away....unfortunately for me that's not the case.

Im spending more time lately on brain function, on how to improve it.

you people are heros keeping this thread alive... I wrote an email to the 70 PRAC people two weeks ago and have only gotten one answer without any information on the stage of their decision on isotretinoin safety.

Does 13 cis-retinoic acid have the same PH when dissolved as vitamin A? Do we have any conclusive evidence that isotretinoin causes an autoimmune disease? At this point it just seems like speculation. Has anyone have any experienced an improvement in libido since taking accutane?

30 minutes ago, Taneraped said:

Does 13 cis-retinoic acid have the same PH when dissolved as vitamin A? Do we have any conclusive evidence that isotretinoin causes an autoimmune disease? At this point it just seems like speculation.

Two people have tested positive for the same autoimmune disease (guitarman and someone else). And there also countless others who have developed forms of Colitis, Crohn's, Grave's, Hypothyroidism, Lupus, CFS (which is pretty much deemed an autoimmune disorder by now)... etc

We just need more people to continuously test and not get discouraged when it isn't what they thought it might be. (I thought for the longest time I was suffering from hypothyroidism and my results came back normal so now I'm moving onto other tests and doctor visits)

The immune system is something we should definitely not sweep to the side. In myopinion..

7 minutes ago, Colinboko said:

Two people have tested positive for the same autoimmune disease (guitarman and someone else). And there also countless others who have developed forms of Colitis, Crohn's, Grave's, Hypothyroidism, Lupus, CFS (which is pretty much deemed an autoimmune disorder by now)... etc

We just need more people to continuously test and not get discouraged when it isn't what they thought it might be. (I thought for the longest time I was suffering from hypothyroidism and my results came back normal so now I'm moving onto other tests and doctor visits)

The immune system is something we should definitely not sweep to the side. In myopinion..

Just to be clear, they had the "Autoimmune Dysautonomia Evaluation, Serum" test correct??

If not, post exact name of test we should be asking for?

1 hour ago, TrueJustice said:

It would be interesting to know for sure if tane sits in liver for years, only a biopsy could determine that.

But even so, if you knew for sure what would you do about it?

Thinking all of this is still some sort of vitamin A toxicity after all these years and reverting to trying to treat this would be 10 steps back for me at this point. But if you were to find this out through biopsy, obviously that would change everything and I would be spreading the word and making it into a legal case. With no elevated liver enzymes, this probably isn't happening, and Im not sure how high they rate this newer fibroscan when it comes to biopsy follow-up. The fibroscan is non-invasive and its whole point is to avoid biopsy.

1 hour ago, Taneraped said:

Do we have any conclusive evidence that isotretinoin causes an autoimmune disease? At this point it just seems like speculation.

Isotretinoin as a Possible Environmental Trigger to Autoimmunity in Genetically Susceptible Patients

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/cripe/2017/4207656/

1 hour ago, TrueJustice said:

Just to be clear, they had the "Autoimmune Dysautonomia Evaluation, Serum" test correct??

If not, post exact name of test we should be asking for?

Yes! That's the one! Sorry for not including it!

@guitarman01just wanted to tag you to make sure haha, as I still haven't had the test done.

On 7/12/2017 at 9:27 AM, TrueJustice said:

Just to be clear, they had the "Autoimmune Dysautonomia Evaluation, Serum" test correct??

If not, post exact name of test we should be asking for?

[Edited link out]
This might be the only public lab in the world atm to offer this test. It looks like quest used to, but I dont see it available anymore.
To more easily get this test, I would just embellish the truth a little bit and maybe say something like you know 10 people that took accutane that already tested positive for this. Mention your gastric and urinary problems, Ed, muscle weakness, heart palpitations, trouble breathing, dry eyes, dry mouth etc.

Acetylcholine ganglionic neuronal antibody.
This antibody is the only antibody proven to cause dysautonomia.
Obviously Im very aware of its association with cancer. most people that test positive for this antibody do not have cancer.
This is one of those markers im talking about.

I also have anti phosphoserine antibodies and cardiolipin antibodies. These are associated with antiphospholipid antibodies. This can be drug induced.im not looking too much into this yet. My testing for this was done through quest diagnostics.

These are both diagnostic blood tests that should be covered by insurance. (check first)

Unfortunately these are both serious antibodies associated with serious conditions. So if it was me, id definitely want to have this knowledge if I was able to get these tests.

Yeah for me it's time to stop fucken around with small tests and start delving in a bit deeper looking at autoimmune issues.

I know it would vary depending on what they find but generally speaking what do they put people on with autoimmune issues??
Is this where steroids come into play that people keep mentioning?

9 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Yeah for me it's time to stop fucken around with small tests and start delving in a bit deeper looking at autoimmune issues.

I know it would vary depending on what they find but generally speaking what do they put people on with autoimmune issues??
Is this where steroids come into play that people keep mentioning?

Yup. Anti-inflammatories/immune suppressants

19 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Yeah for me it's time to stop fucken around with small tests and start delving in a bit deeper looking at autoimmune issues.

I know it would vary depending on what they find but generally speaking what do they put people on with autoimmune issues??
Is this where steroids come into play that people keep mentioning?

steroids are easiest to get ahold of, but might be most likely to have side effects. Im seeing a neurologist about this in a couple weeks. The main treatment seems to be plasma exchange or iv immunoglobulin g. Depending on the severity of some symptoms and drug side effects, some doctors might opt to not treat this at all, idk. Or maybe they would treat the symptoms, for example dry eyes=eye drops, gastric motility= reglan, but if they see its having more wide ranging effects on the nervous or cardiovascular system, I believe they would treat this more seriously.

The point is this might not even be the "cause" it could be a "effect" but this might be an important identifiable marker, when so many blood tests have failed to find anything. (minus some hormone issues in some people)

Has anyone ever tried prednisone ?
I think one should take it short term, long term usage can definitely trigger terrible side effects

34 minutes ago, Vice-accutane said:

Has anyone ever tried prednisone ?
I think one should take it short term, long term usage can definitely trigger terrible side effects

Yep check my post history.

I forgot to mention in my last post, the main antibody I'm referencing is the acetylcholine ganglionic neuronal antibody from that mayo test panel. This is the only antibody proven to cause Dysautonomia. The rest of those tests on that panel are less a concern and should be negative.

3 hours ago, Vice-accutane said:

Has anyone ever tried prednisone ?
I think one should take it short term, long term usage can definitely trigger terrible side effects

Long term usage in extremely high amounts*

I've read of several CFS sufferers that dwindled down to a low dosage and kept their symptoms at bay without any side effects

3 hours ago, ehohel said:

3 hours ago, Vice-accutane said:

Has anyone ever tried prednisone ?
I think one should take it short term, long term usage can definitely trigger terrible side effects

Yep check my post history.

I found your post. Waow.
100% normal ? Did you suffer from ED, libido loss and anhedonia as well ?
I assume you stopped the drug, did your side effects return ? Has you noticed an improvement even after the discontinuation ?

Thanks for this experience .
I also read that you have been taking proviron for two weeks, probably too early to say anything but keep us updated about it, I'm really willing to try it.

Thanks also colinboko, Im not familiar with this product . Just heard about facial changes , muscles atrophy which doesn't sound fun at all. what would be a low dosage?

33 minutes ago, Vice-accutane said:

I found your post. Waow.
100% normal ? Did you suffer from ED, libido loss and anhedonia as well ?
I assume you stopped the drug, did your side effects return ? Has you noticed an improvement even after the discontinuation ?

Thanks for this experience .
I also read that you have been taking proviron for two weeks, probably too early to say anything but keep us updated about it, I'm really willing to try it.

Thanks also colinboko, Im not familiar with this product . Just heard about facial changes , muscles atrophy which doesn't sound fun at all. what would be a low dosage?

@Vice-accutanescroll back a few pages and check out what I posted about propecia users healing 100% all symptoms (including libido and brain fog/anhedonia) when getting a sick/flu/stomach bug.

This is essentially what prednisone would do to us. Suppress the immune system so it stops attacking whatever it's attacking

guitarman also recently shared something that stated doses of 5 mg- 10 mg are safe to take long term without side effects. Now the question is would we be able to dwindle that low and still reap benefits from the drug? I hope so. No one has really tried.

How long after your rounds of Accutane did you develop autoimmune symptoms? I did 6 months of Accutane when I was 19 and around 20-21 I developed gluten insensitivity as well as high blood pressure that really messed me up badly until I could figure out what was going on. 25 now.

I know fasting has been mentioned here plenty, but has anyone seen this?

https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regeneration-of-damaged-old-immune-system/
http://www.naturalblaze.com/2016/05/fasting-like-diet-has-profound-effect-on-autoimmune-and-inflammatory-conditions-like-ms.html

Supposedly ~40% of your immune system is consumed by autophagy after a few days of ketosis, and then rebuilt by stem cells upon re-feeding. I'm currently going to be fasting for, say, 5 days every couple months and then eventually attempt to re-introduce gluten to see whether I'm still affected. Would like to throw an even more prolonged fast into the mix but I'll need to put on some more weight first before I'm comfortable with that.

Aside from the gluten intolerance, my health/vitality has steadily declined in the past year. Decline in energy, memory, motivation. Depression/anhedonia has hit me. Decline in libido.

My opinion on Accutane is simple: We know that it alters most everyone's gene expression. Some people are affected by this to varying degrees. How fucked up your gene expression has become will determine the severity and timeline in which you will experience negative symptoms. There's two ways to attempt a cure: Figure out Accutane's specificmechanisms of action and attempt to address thosespecifically,or, do everything in your power to revert your gene expression back towards a more youthful/healthy phenotype and hope that your symptoms are cured.

To me, this obviously means covering the basics such as exercise, sleep, nutrition. However, I also believe any other underlying health issues must be taken care of such as:
Infections
Parasites
Toxins/Heavy metals
Gut microbiome imbalance
Excess Iron - Blood donation, Chelation via Curcumin or IP6
Calcification - MSM, Magnesium, Silica, K2
Brain injuries

More drastic measures are probably needed as well, such as:
Prolonged water fasting - Tons of potential here but I believe multiple prolonged fasts would be needed for profound improvement
Peptides - GHK-Cu, BPC-157, Epitalon, Thymalin
Healthy stressors - Exercise, polyphenols, heat, cold, hypoxia(Wim Hof breathing), spicy food
Hyberbaric Oxygen Therapy
NAD+ boosters - For DNA repair
Iodine protocol?
RSO/CBD Oil?
High dose vitamins such as Vit C or Niacin?

Hopefully this triggers some discussion. This is more of a conversation starter than anything. There's a metric shit ton of quack information online and it's your own responsibility to do your research first.