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@ModeaaAwesome info about the kidneys and accutane. Check out my previous post above. My urine test showed HIGHLY elevated albumin.
" I'd also be curious if you could test your microalbumin/creatinine ratio. Ref range is < 3.9 mg/g. Mine was 65.9! (indicating severe kidney damage). This was done as part of an inflammation profile.I know accutane damages the kidneys but I'm 3 yrs post-treatment."
Has anyone else tested this biomarker for kidney function and leakiness?
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Copying my post from above:
@tryingtohelp2014Lastly, from theSAM-E & 13CRA thesis you posted,I found some really cool NUGGETS OF INFO:
" Importantly, Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin that can be stored in the body, primarily in the liver as retinyl ester. This is highly beneficial in cases of Vitamin A deficiency:a supplement containing 200,000 IU can meet the patients daily requirement for four to six months"
http://www.unscn.org/layout/modules/resources/files/Policy_paper_No_13.pdf
"Recently Stoltzfus et al. (1992,1993) reported thata single 300,000 IU vitamin A (equivalent of 90 mg retinol) supplement administered to mothers within a few weeks of birth was effective in raising milk vitamin A levels and in maintaining an improved level of vitamin A status in the infant for at least six months."
"Liver retinyl ester concentration can vary widely and still be considered to be in the normal range. In the rat,concentrations exceeding 510 g retinol/g liver support a normal output of retinol on its transport protein, retinolbinding protein (RBP)(Goodman, 1984; Harrison et al., 1987).If liver retinol falls below this level, RBP synthesis continues but secretion is impaired unless additional retinol is provided(Smith et al., 1973).Thus it appears that these last retinol reserves are not readily mobilized for secretion into plasma. The retinol molecule is very well conserved: it is eliminated from the body only after several passages between liver and peripheral tissues (Green et al., 1985)."
We've already established that we are deficient in true vitamin A. Perhaps this causes RBP secretion to become impaired. This supports the idea that we get symptoms of accutane all over again when we ingest more vitamin A because once we hit a certain concentration of retinol in the liver, it starts secreting it again. Also, this is yet another study that shows that retinol is very hard to get rid of. It seems to recirculate in the body. One of my older posts links 5-10 studies that show this increasing the pharmacological profileof isotretinoin.
In other words, I'm going to continue eating my liver (high in vit A) and doing liver flushes. Even if we eliminated all the accutane from the body, it will take a few months to notice the difference. It won't be an instant "I'm healed!" moment. All the epigenetic switches will have to go back to how they were. This may take a while.
39 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:I tested my creatine kinase and it's in the normal range. I have extreme muscle pain. I am 96% sure it's oxalates built up in my tissues. For some reason, I became unable to detoxify oxalates. I know the enzymes involved in oxalate transport are the same ones that transport sulfur.
I like your methionine/sulfur theory. It makes sense BUT we have no way to measure that. We also have no way to determine how much to take or a way to monitor results. One thing I should note is I've beenhaving at least a whole head of cabbage per day for the past few weeks (plenty of sulfur)
@guitarman01For homocysteine levels (Ben Lynch):
"Properly prepare yourself to get your homocysteine level measured.
- You should be fasting. Do not eat anything prior to testing. Ideally get tested in the morning to make this easier.
- Many foods contain protein and most protein contains methionine.
- High-methionine containing foodscan falsely elevate your homocysteine levels.
Right, but theres a difference betwwen taking in sulfur from foods, to your bodies ability to change that to the active sulfide needed. the whole NADPH thing. it surely cant hurt though.
The CPK thing.... maybe get tested again after jogging or lifting. from that kid that died...he ran into problems after not having worked out for a long time.
and yes on that SAM-E study! anyone on this board taking million of units of vitamin A are CRAZY!!!! its NOT needed! the same goes for vitamin D.
1. Elevated plasma homocysteine levels in patients on isotretinoin therapy for cystic acne
2. Restoring assembly and activity of cystathionine -synthase mutants by ligands and chemical chaperones.
with three osmolytes betaine, 2-aminoethanesulfonic acid (taurine), and glycerol.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20490928
3.Altered hepatic sulfur metabolism in cystathionine -synthase-deficient homocystinuria: regulatory role of taurine on competing cysteine oxidation pathways.
HCU induced regulatory changes in CSAD, CDO, and GOT1 expression were normalized by taurine supplementation, indicating that cysteine is not the only sulfur compound that regulates hepatic cysteine oxidation. Collectively, our results indicate that HCU induces significant alterations of sulfur metabolism with the potential to contribute to pathogenesis and that cysteine and taurine have the potential to serve as adjunctive treatments in this disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24891521
1 hour ago, Modeaa said:'' Retinoic acid represses CYP7A1 expression in human hepatocytes and HepG2 cells by FXR/RXR-dependent and independent mechanisms
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2903807/
Cholesterol 7-hydroxylase (CYP7A1) plays a key role in maintaining lipid and bile salt homeostasis as it is the rate-limiting enzyme converting cholesterol to bile acids. Deficiency ofCYP7A1leads to hyperlipidemia in man and mouse. Hyperlipidemia is often seen in patients when treated with high-dose retinoic acid (RA), but the molecular mechanisms remain elusive.
and this is not elusive at all.... we know why this is happening (methionine/taurine depletion)
Enhancing effect of taurine on CYP7A1 mRNA expression in Hep G2 cells.
1 hour ago, Modeaa said:my last wide blood test done in 2012
Appreciate the response.
I think you should definitely get retested for "microalbumin/creatinine ratio"
Make sure is is the micro sized proteins not just regular albumin. My albumin is fine. It's the microalbumin that's leaking through.
Also, according to Paul Jaminet of perfect health diet, any cholesterol level under 200 is typically caused from a lipid deficient diet. I agree.
Eat plenty of coconut oil, animal fats, egg yolks, and shellfish like oysters (for zinc) <- especially helpful for those who have erectile dysfunction.
It would be bad if cholesterolwas above 260, though. In that case, there are some stressors/inflammation occurring.
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@tryingtohelp2014Actually, the point of my "nuggets of info" was that ingesting more vitamin A is actually helpful in eliminating accutane from the liver. It is risky ingesting millions of IUs of vit A though because the effects might not show up for a few months and once they do (if they do) it would be very hard to reverse it. You'd have to go on a very low vit A diet for a while and do LOADS of liver flushes. BUT it's VERY hard to achieve toxicity through real food vit A. I'm sure Fchawk (guy who is doing that) will be okay. Hopefully the supplement he's taking is actually from real animals.
Could someone research the best binders for vitamin A once it's excreted out into the bile? Chlorella, bentonite clay, psyllium, etc??
From a forum user who cured himself: (He did mini liver flushes every day)
"I took calcium d glucarate & kombucha to enhance the excretion & prevent reabsorption. Each morning i've eat some fruits, then 15min after took a mix of charcoal, bentonite & psyllium followed (30min after) by a mix of 20-30ml of olive oil with 20-30ml of lemon juice. I add cascara sagrada & magnesium oxide if transit too slow.
Before the isotherpay i've expose myself to the sun for hours too to get enough vitamin D. I've took beta-carotene and red ice skate liver oil (not at the same time) before & between the first liver flush (and before the isotherapy).
How i mesure the success i will say for now it's really impressive, it's like everything come back to normal, the joint become stronger, the skin is more thick & able to sweat again, mentaly i have "brighter" and more feelings, emotions, memory come back, etc.. and i find orgasm & sexual desire a lot more powerful than usual too."
47 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:
Could someone research the best binders for vitamin A once it's excreted out into the bile? Chlorella, bentonite clay, psyllium, etc??
From a forum user who cured himself: (He did mini liver flushes every day)
"I took calcium d glucarate & kombucha to enhance the excretion & prevent reabsorption. Each morning i've eat some fruits, then 15min after took a mix of charcoal, bentonite & psyllium followed (30min after) by a mix of 20-30ml of olive oil with 20-30ml of lemon juice. I add cascara sagrada & magnesium oxide if transit too slow.
Before the isotherpay i've expose myself to the sun for hours too to get enough vitamin D. I've took beta-carotene and red ice skate liver oil (not at the same time) before & between the first liver flush (and before the isotherapy).How i mesure the success i will say for now it's really impressive, it's like everything come back to normal, the joint become stronger, the skin is more thick & able to sweat again, mentaly i have "brighter" and more feelings, emotions, memory come back, etc.. and i find orgasm & sexual desire a lot more powerful than usual too."
its funny how theres a grain of truth in everything people reported thathelps....but nobody knew why. basically anything that increases UGT2B7,binds accutane metabolitesonce in the bloodstream.
ethanol+weed = super glucuronidination
Involvement of UDP-glucuronosyltransferases UGT1A9 and UGT2B7 in ethanol glucuronidation, and interactions with common drugs of abuse.
I can't ingest marijuana anymore post tane. The last three times I tried I either had a transient ischemic attack, paresthesia, or nervous system malfunction that resulted in pins and needles/burning sensations in my arms. And believe me, the thc isn't the cause, but a trigger. I smoked for 7years just fine prior to our almighty acne cure...something happened post tane that affected the hippocampal or hypothalamus regions. I may have smoked while on Accutane which exacerbated toxicity. Believe me, when I say I am living proof for the neurological effects of isotretinoin, i mean it.
In any case, what do we do about our bodies inability to repair itself properly? The lack of cellular proliferation.. It can account for the majority of symptoms we are seeing.
I guess thats a dumb question, since that's what we're working on, balancing homeostasis. I just hope we aren't capped at the ends on the cellular or dna level.
8 hours ago, guitarman01 said:still going back and fourth on a few different supplements im taking something is really making me feel better, cant pin down what it is yet. been taking 50 to 60mg or (60,000mcg) of biotin per day for the past couple of days. going to neologist on monday and going to get tested forbiotinidaseenzymedeficiency andhomocysteinelevels, any other test anyone can think of?becausewhats wrong with me could be whats wrong with you.
biotin is basically sulfur btw. very close connections between sulfur aminos and biotin production. could this also be the link between accutane and biotinidase deficiency?! our bodies robbed of every last bit of sulfur?
also read this article about vitamin D and sulfur connection http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/sulfur-deficiency/
On 01/01/2016, 18:40:49, macleod said:I can't ingest marijuana anymore post tane. The last three times I tried I either had a transient ischemic attack, paresthesia, or nervous system malfunction that resulted in pins and needles/burning sensations in my arms. And believe me, the thc isn't the cause, but a trigger. I smoked for 8+ years just fine prior to our almighty acne cure...something happened post tane that affected the hippocampal or hypothalamus regions. I may have smoked while on Accutane which exacerbated toxicity. Believe me, when I say I am living proof for the neurological effects of isotretinoin, i mean it.
In any case, what do we do about our bodies inability to repair itself properly? The lack of cellular proliferation.. It can account for the majority of symptoms we are seeing.
16 hours ago, IndigoRush said:I'm really struggling at the moment. As soon as I realise all my issues were started because of this drug I get so stressed out knowing I don't have a clue what is going on. 10 years and counting. I just don't know how to go on from here. I can't deal with this chronic fatigue for the rest of my life. Happy 2016 :/
Unfortunately it doesn't get any better mate. I've had to deal with this shit for nearly 20 years now. I didn't even have any acne at all!!
my heart feels real jumpy alot.I just seem to be aware of my heart rate/muscle more often then i should.ive also had instances where it felt like I was having a heart attack and my heart would start beating real fast and id break out in a cold sweat, has only happened a couple times in my life but post accutane. I have had my heart rate monitored 3 different times once at a cardiologist once at the ER and once at a walk in clinic. all times came back normal,I was thinking it was maybe severe acid reflux.probablyone of those hidden things they wontfind until its too late, lol.
Biotin deficiency can also cause heart problems, thats taken directly from the mayo clinic. im going to drop back down to 40,000mcg a day, just so I can make a bottle last a month and will continue to do this for awhile.
http://www.biotin.com/cardiovascular/biotin-can-help-lower-risks-of-heart-disease lol so of course theres a biotin.com.
Over the long-term, themetabolic activities- including the synthesis of essential fatty acids and glucose metabolism - that rely on biotin become impaired because of the lack of biotin. Essential fatty acid (EFA) deficiency is associated with carbohydrate metabolism and insufficient biotin, and is linked to the development ofcardiovascular disease. Insufficient biotin results in impaired synthesis of long-chain EFAs, even with adequate consumption of essential fatty acids. Insulin resistance (andadult-onset diabetes) resulting fromimpaired glucose metabolismalso contributes to heart disease.8
I went through a cardiovascular phase as well about 4 - 5 years back, about 3 years post tane. Noticed little things like beat skips, waking up with tightness in chest, and if I put my teeth together i can feel my pulse throughout my body. Never ever noticed my heart intrinsically like that unless we were in school taking our pulse after exercise. I've picked up running the last 3 years so my resting heart rate for my age is perfect, 118-120/70. However, say I drink half a cup of coffee or even a soda, we can expect my heart to start pumping at 140-150/85. It's a neurological reaction to the caffeine. And believe me, caffeine is just one of many substances that causes these interactions. It's such bs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23622402
Vitamin responsive treatable neurological disorders. what if these were the only disorders we could actually treat with all our supplements? and everything else was just a waste and time and money or negligible effects that dont treat the cause.
these are from birth or pediatric but maybe they could also apply.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22108709
Update and new concepts in vitamin responsive disorders of folate transport and metabolism.
Derivatives of folic acid are involved in transfer of one-carbon units in cellular metabolism, playing a role in synthesis of purines and thymidylate and in the remethylation of homocysteine to form methionine
Ummm, billiary drainage is what they do to alleviate serious inflammation of the digestive organs (ie pancreatitis). I think it's usually done by a surgeon prior to an operating procedure (ie whipple). Lol, it's mainly done to save lives, I don't think its a public procedure.
If you guys are still focused on digestive as being the culprit, antioxidants like cysteine and ALA have many promising studies and antioxidants like that are VERY powerful in toxin removal so much so that ameliorate some life threatening conditions (at least in mice and in vitro). So, I don't know how far you guys want to go with this cleansing and flushing in the hopes it become more than a temporary solution.
It's kind of like have a power steering rack squeel every time you turn the wheels in your car, and you keep draining the old fluid and putting new fluid, but yet the pump is what needs replacement, or maybe the entire rack itself. (Not saying we have a broken liver or intestine, but our entire celluar composition has been altered, thus resulting in peculiar function of organs)
I know it can't hurt, but I dunno, I don't see how these are permanent solutions. I'm all for supplement or enzyme or good bacerterial addition/subtraction until our body is in its ideal stasis, so that our organs should be preforming at their respective capabilities...
did you read about that girl that lost most of her pancreas and hair due to accutane? think it was pretty recent. so sad. she was like 15 or 16 maybe.in the news if you google accutane news. Thats whats most messed up is everyone takes accutane when they are still growing and developing as opposed to adulthood when we could have tolerated or not even needed the drug to begin with.
http://www.google.com/patents/US4649040
In accordance with the present invention any agent or compound which prevents the formation of fatty liver can be used to ameliorate the pathological or toxic effects of retinoids. Preferred agents known to prevent formation of fatty liver include biotin, chloline chloride, methionine, betaine, inositol and the like. These agents or compounds, hereinafter termed "rescuing agents", may be used either alone, in mixture or in combination with other agents or compounds including retinoids. They may be administered in any suitable vehicle, form and mode, e.g., as tablets, capsules, solids, liquids, emulsions, ointments, paste, slurry, mixtures, solutions, suspensions, orally, subcutaneously, intraperitoneally, in sterile aqueous media or physiological saline and the like. The rescuing agents may also be administered in the form of precursors or congeners, e.g., in the form of lecithin which is the precursor of choline.
.....
Results in FIG. 1 show that the administration of 1% (weight by volume) choline chloride or 0.02% biotin or 1% betaine in drinking water rescued about 40% of mice from death caused by retinoic acid. In the same experiment a supersaturated solution of biotin (0.06%) was also used. This led to the rescue of about 50% of the mice. The most potent substance of the group was L-methionine, which at 1% concentration led to the rescue of 70% of the mice.
5 hours ago, guitarman01 said:my heart feels real jumpy alot.I just seem to be aware of my heart rate/muscle more often then i should.ive also had instances where it felt like I was having a heart attack and my heart would start beating real fast and id break out in a cold sweat, has only happened a couple times in my life but post accutane. I have had my heart rate monitored 3 different times once at a cardiologist once at the ER and once at a walk in clinic. all times came back normal,I was thinking it was maybe severe acid reflux.probablyone of those hidden things they wontfind until its too late, lol.
Biotin deficiency can also cause heart problems, thats taken directly from the mayo clinic. im going to drop back down to 40,000mcg a day, just so I can make a bottle last a month and will continue to do this for awhile.
dude, you have an excitable tissue problem. theres a reason they put taurine in Red bull. its to counteract the caffeine.
1 hour ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:
http://www.google.com/patents/US4649040
In accordance with the present invention any agent or compound which prevents the formation of fatty liver can be used to ameliorate the pathological or toxic effects of retinoids. Preferred agents known to prevent formation of fatty liver include biotin, chloline chloride, methionine, betaine, inositol and the like. These agents or compounds, hereinafter termed "rescuing agents", may be used either alone, in mixture or in combination with other agents or compounds including retinoids. They may be administered in any suitable vehicle, form and mode, e.g., as tablets, capsules, solids, liquids, emulsions, ointments, paste, slurry, mixtures, solutions, suspensions, orally, subcutaneously, intraperitoneally, in sterile aqueous media or physiological saline and the like. The rescuing agents may also be administered in the form of precursors or congeners, e.g., in the form of lecithin which is the precursor of choline.
.....
I will have an easy to follow protocol up in the next few days.
That is quite the find. Where has this been hiding all these years?
looks to have been applied around the same time they first started prescribingaccutane
37 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:That is quite the find. Where has this been hiding all these years?
looks to have been applied around the same time they first started prescribingaccutane
Yeah, this Pitha figured shit out quick.
This paper is the key to our cure imo. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867413008234
What this basically says is... methionine will turn off FOX01and the Autophagy that accutane upregulated. The third paragraph states... that once our bodies have been turned off....theres an addiitonal way to trick it to turn back on 100%with the addition of SAM-E.
SAM-E + straight methionine is another type of super-stack. Alll sulfur containing substances can help to some extent, this would include the downstream metabolites of taurine, and sulfur containingbiotin alongany other osmolyte that reduces a fatty liver or can help recycle the methionine in our body (TMG)
From the paper:
To circumvent this issue, we observed that inclusion of cysteine together with all other amino acids except methionine and tyrosine no longer inhibited growth in SL medium. Under these conditions, cysteine no longer inhibited NNS autophagy as assayed using both the ALP and GFP cleavage assays (Figure2A), suggesting that the effect of cysteine alone on autophagy was due to its inhibitory effects on respiration. In contrast, the addition of methionine together with the non-sulfur amino acid mixture still potently inhibited NNS autophagy (Figure2A), suggesting that methionine, and not cysteine, may be the key amino acid.
By adding back various metabolites to SL medium, we discovered that a single amino acid methionine is sufficient to suppress NNS autophagy. This effect of methionine is extremely specific as the other 19 amino acids have virtually no effect on NNS-autophagy induction either alone or in combination (Figure1andS1).
Upon sulfate starvation, yeast cells conserve nutrients and properly arrest their growth to promote survivability (Boer etal., 2008). They also preferentially express proteins containing a smaller percentage of cysteine and methionine residues as a strategy to spare sulfur (Fauchon etal., 2002). The Met4p transcription factor, which controls the transcription of many genes involved in sulfur utilization, is degraded prior to entry into START (Kaiser etal., 2006andPatton etal., 2000). A recent study showed thatmet4mutants grow poorly even when supplemented with methionine. However, the addition of SAM restored normal growth rates, suggesting that SAM levels are rate-limiting for supporting maximal growth rates (Hickman etal., 2011).
@tryingtohelp2014Great stuff! If anyone decides to purchase SAMe, I highly suggest going with the company "Seeking Health" for optimal quality.
Has anyone seen this? Would this be useful to read? Perhaps it would explain some biochemical mechanisms of damage?
EDIT:
Also, this:
and this:
Anyone care to check these out? I'm curious about them but low on $
6 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:@tryingtohelp2014Great stuff! If anyone decides to purchase SAMe, I highly suggest going with the company "Seeking Health" for optimal quality.
Has anyone seen this? Would this be useful to read? Perhaps it would explain some biochemical mechanisms of damage?
EDIT:
Also, this:
and this:
Anyone care to check these out? I'm curious about them but low on $
wow, this is going back but i believe that might be that nathan carr guy. he had alot, alot of detailed theories on accutane. i think he also went by anonymous. I know he said something about how he was writing or publishing a book or thesis. not 100 percent sure though.
I would buy one or all of them. but i think we all know how they read. about the dangers. were already in it.
